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The Hard R

GOD FORBID’S DALLAS COYLE ON THE TOURING GAME

Thursday, June 5th, 2008 at 6:21pm by

The Hard R Dallas Coyle God Forbid

The Touring Game

Touring is a rough animal. Last week I went into a tirade about a promoter who stiffed us on cash. It may have been a little harsh but fuck it. Eventually we will be paid because there is a contract when we play. We get guarantees unless we’re doing bar shows where we do door deals. In all honesty, unless we’re getting a 3,000 and up guarantee, door deals can be fruitful.

Some of the comments about my last blog were eye opening because there is no ‘one’ way to promote a show. In our contracts it says we play and you give us X amount of dollars. There are options for percentage after a certain amount of money is made but usually if we play we get paid. If we don’t play, we don’t get paid. If you’re a promoter who’s done shows before, don’t act like you know our game because you don’t. The promoting game is just as rough as the touring game because it’s like the stock market. You win some, you lose some.

Case in point, we did a show on this tour where the promoter lost about a grand. He’s a guy we’ve known for years and he LOVES us, so we’re always welcome back. Our tour manager went to him and said, ‘Sorry about the show man. We know it was a loss!’ The promoter goes,’ Are you kidding me, we did Jimmy Eat World last week and I lost ten grand! That’s a loss!’ Look at that little equation. It’s a win some, lose some game. Sometimes you win big and sometimes you lose big. But imagine this: if you can lose ten grand and laugh about it, promoting could be a great way to do business!

When we do tours we usually have a package tour that consists of three to five bands. Opening bands usually get 100-150 bucks a show. The second band usually gets 300-500 depending on who they are and the third and fourth bands can get anywhere from 1000 a piece to 5000 a piece depending on who they are and where they are playing. If you add all that up it’s a lot of money but if you have 20 dollar tickets and you put 500 people in a room the math is undeniable.

The thing that sucks with today’s scene as far as GF is concerned is the fact that we’re neither small nor huge. We are as middle-class as you can get when it comes to being in a band. We pay our bills doing this, but barely. With the cost of gas going up and the fact that a tour bus runs about 1200 bucks a day because of gas going up, the business these days for a band in our position is not profitable. Bus drivers even get 250 a day. That’s a lot of cash going in but not necessarily coming out. This tour has been great for us with money because we are going to break even. But we’ve lost up to 10,000 dollars on some tours. We weren’t laughing.

This business is as rough as it can get. I wish people would buy more records but I don’t expect them to. There aren’t enough good bands out there that deserve their records to be bought so I understand why people don’t buy records. Most records are shit.

I’m happy as hell our new DVD is coming out in a couple of days because I think it can turn our band from middle-class to upper middle-class . I think one reason we haven’t become a bigger band is because of who we are. We’re a hard band to get into if you see our picture next to Lamb Of God or Slipknot. Usually people love us after seeing us 5 or more times. We’re an acquired taste. The good and bad thing about that is our ability to attract people to our music is our business. It relates to our guarantees and our overall business model in general. It’s no surprise why so many bands wear make up. It’s theatrics and it sells records. They have a good business plan for their band. It doesn’t work for us. We’re still trying to find our business model. Please buy the DVD. You’ll get to know us as you never have.

To all you newer bands, remember this is a BUSINESS. Yeah, you may want to play music because you love playing music, but love doesn’t pay your electric bill. It doesn’t pay for your bitch’s dinner. Always think business first because your art is your business.

Check out our tour blog at www.netvibes.com/godforbid
There’s a cover of Death Angel doing “Seek & Destroy” with a bunch of guest vocalists. I do the first verse!

Pick up Beneath The Scars Of Glory And Progression on June 10th or at a show before then!

HORNS!!!

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  • http://lordsofmetal.nl FleischBerg

    Does the DVD also get a European release?
    Because if so, I will definitely buy it the first day

  • http://DarkTwinCities.com devil

    Okay Dallas, maybe this is a topic for another column, but I’m interested in:

    Artists complain that no one buys albums anymore and it’s hurting them financially. Yet labels give bands money up front to record and a great deal of album sales go toward paying the label back whereas the band sees little profit on CDs. T or F

    Most revenue for a band is generated through touring/merchandising. T or F

    Those people who complain about spending $25 to $30 for a show ought to be kicked in the ass (ESPECIALLY if they didn’t buy a CD). T or F

    By and large, promoters are shady. T or F

    What I dig about your columns is the openness and honesty. What I’d like to see more of (not just from you but from all artists) is an explanation as to how I can best “support” (financially or otherwise) a band I really like (such as yours – and I own physical copies of all your CDs, just so you know). How much do you get if I buy a CD directly from the label as opposed to Best Buy? Is there a difference?

    And at one point do you guys just buy a van and start touring the country in it, taking turns driving yourselves. ;)

    You rock man. Love the column. Can’t wait for the next album.

  • http://DarkTwinCities.com devil

    Crap, I said “Those people who pay $25 to $30 for a SHOW…

    I meant $25 to $30 for a T-SHIRT at the show. Sorry.

  • ski

    “It doesn’t pay for your bitch’s dinner”? Are you talking about women? Elaborate.

  • http://www.davefilmguy.com Davefilmguy

    “We’re a hard band to get into if you see our picture next to Lamb Of God or Slipknot. Usually people love us after seeing us 5 or more times. We’re an acquired taste.”

    Not true for me. The first time I saw you open up for “Hatebreed” back in the Determination days I loved you guys and was a fan ever since. Like you much more than Hatebreed now. I always buy the CD’s of the bands l like that are not huge yet because I know they need it. You guys kick much ass and keep making music I will buy it. (ALSO THE DVD NEXT WEEK)

    P.S Meet you guys years ago at a shitty club in Cincy OH. called the Void. We had to go out on the street between every band because it was so hot. I hung out with you guys on the street drinking 40oz. You guys were really cool. Thanks.

  • Nicole

    Yeah, I agree with devil on at least one thing…
    What else can fans do to help support their favourite bands? I mean, you can only by the same CD so many times, even if it’s re-issued.

    And I can’t wait for your DVD. When a band makes a good one that really lets you get to know them as people as well as artists, I’m hooked.
    “Set This World Ablaze” by Killswitch Engage, for instance, got me into the band again before I was familiar with Howard Jones as anything other than some dude trying to take Jesse’s place.

    Keep up the columns, dude. They’re a great read :]

  • blah

    hey dallas, i was just catching up on all of your columns so far, and in one of them you make a reference to problems the band was going through between determination and gone forever, which reminded me of that one big rumor at the time, about byron supposedly leaving the band. (i think the rumor also involved you guys supposedly getting the singer of another band too, five pointe o i think?) any chance of giving a little insight to what exactly happened with that in a future column?

  • Muttweiler

    It’s kind of scary when you see the difference in record sales between a lower to mid tier metal act and a pop act. I guess when people listen to crap they all buy the same half dozen albums a year as everyone else on the planet. Where the metal head buys 20-30 albums a year from a variety of artists and most of us never have a single favorite band or exactly the same taste. I can see how promotion would be a motherfucker as people in the U.S. are pretty spread out. I hung out with the Guys from Nevermore about 10 years ago at a small club in Erie, PA. They were saying how they had a minimal daily stipend, a van, a u-haul and one tech. Playing on Wed. night in a hole after playing ginormous European festivals a couple weeks before but they understood that this was what they had to do to put themselves out there to U.S. fans. I know we all love a big ass spectacle with lights and bombs and shit but getting a chance be close enough to have a brew with your heroes rules too! Godspeed on yer way up, Dallas!

  • Stixnstond in L.A.

    I place the blame on the Ipod Generation. “Who buys WHOLE albums nowadays??”…
    Like DaveTheFilmGuy, I support the bands by buying there CD’s – Preferably at the show. For a reasonable price and i know it goes directly to the band and crew.

    I BOUGHT the GF DVD out in Vegas… man Dallas, you guys are COMEDY!!! Best part of the DVD(S) is the 2nd disc where you guys basically give the entire GF rundown… You guys should be actors, hahahahaah!!

    Cheers to the road warriors – thanks for bringing the show!
    \_/ \_/

  • http://myspace.com/fightingjacks Fightingmike

    It’s gotta be tough for bands the size of God Forbid. Sure they will sell out in certain areas, but if they are always asking for that much money, than there aren’t a ton of promoters who would take the risk, especially in New York or on the west coast, where the cost of running a venue is so much higher. I have done promoting for 10 years now and most bands from the east coast and mid-west cant understand how the cost of a small club or music hall is so high out here in cali. Venues that might only cost the venue $200-$300 a night in the midwest cost roughly $800-$1000 to run every night.

    The comments about how much the bus costs is true, busses usually coast that much every day. Now, if the band was willing to go back to using two vans instead of a bus, than their costs would be about $400-$500 a day and thats $$700-$800 more in their pockets. I think alot of bands get a taste of the bus on Ozzfest or Warped tour or whatever, and then they have a hard time going back to the van, even if it is 1/4 the cost. What it comes down to is the cost of comfort in worth not making a living doing what you love? Tough Call!

  • http://www.myspace.com/evilsammy Sammy

    If I like a band, I’ll buy their CD from the band right there at the show. I know how hard you guys work, and if you’re willing to walk the crowd with a boxful of CDs I’ll give you cash on the spot. It cuts out the middleman and I know exactly where the money is going.

    I agree with the commentor who said he appreciates your honesty and candor. It’s refreshing. I don’t hear one ounce of pretention or doucheness in your columns.

  • http://www.myspace.com/moraldekline Ian B.

    I am a small time promoter, in the Portland, Or. area and I know exactly what he is saying. That’s why I do not book major nationals to play shows. It costs too much to tour, anymore and the economy is so fucking bad, no one has the money to see a show for 20 to 30 bucks a pop.
    I don’t make shit doing this. I make sure the bands get paid, after all of the house fees, so on, and so on. I try to keep the door at 5 to 8 bucks. The house makes their money and the bands can all walk away with 100 to 150 each.
    This is a rough business and I have been performing in it and promoting it for years. You may love it, but if you don’t understand that IT IS a business you WILL grow to hate it!

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  • Luke

    I have no idea why you guys aren’t a bigger band, I been listening to you guys since determination, and I’m in Australia, pretty far away from you guys, europe is where it’s at right now anyway, the metal scene is huge there and it’s REAL metal, they don’t have to sell out in order to make money over there, so if we don’t start supporting our favorite bands, we won’t have a scene, coz all the bands are gunna relocate to sweden or some shit.