THE VERY DEFINITION OF “OXYMORON”
Friday, November 7th, 2008 at 11:03am by Axl RosenbergFrom Blabbermouth this morning:
“Sullen Records is looking for Christian black metal artists that are interested in being on ‘Volume 2′ of the label’s compilation series titled ‘Revelations.’ ‘Volume 1′ was recently released and included material from FIRE THRONE, ELGIBBOR, FROST LIKE ASHES, SORROWSTORM and 13 others.”
I had to read that like fifteen times just to try and digest the idea of “Christian black metal artists.”
Somewhere, Euronymous is rolling in his grave.
-AR
I believe the technical term is “Unblack Metal” (seriously).
Which is just fucking stupid.
Much like you mankvill – Go DIE!!!
i mean it go die
kekal owns
I thought that was “white metal”? To be fair, the lyrics would pretty much be the same as black metal, except they’re, like, saying, no that’s like baaaad and wrong and shit. Like, you can kiss my foetid, rotting, putrefied YET JESUS LOVING ass.
What about Lo-Ruhamah? Those guys kill it.
Unblack metal is so unheavy metal. Not only are Christian metal bands usually extremely bad musically and lytically, but they openly proselytise to spread their ridiculous beliefs in the metal community.
If you ask me, some tar and feathers would be perfectly appropriate there…
Christians can’t keep their hands out of anything; even satanic metal.
The Stryper of black metal…? -shudders-
Hail Satan!
Why are some of you so pissed off about this? You’re not gonna tell me you take the lyrics in trve kvlt black metal seriously, are you? It’s certainly fun to laugh about but any more than that is too much effort. Besides, some of it’s actually not bad.
While I haven’t heard much “unblack” metal, the now defunct Christian band Extol were incredible. They didn’t play “unblack” metal per se, just black/death I guess. Check them out if you want to hear some GOOD Christian metal. Just hear stuff before The Blueprint Dives.
Oh, and they’re from Norway too. :O
Don’t the traditional lyrics of black and death metal go absolutely contrary to what Christians (profess to, the lying fuckers) believe? If lyrical content doesn’t make any difference on the categorization of music, then couldn’t we have Cradle of Filth crackling about their bitches and twenny-fos, Gorgoroth grunting about the virtues of sending your kids to preschool, Behemoth bestially savaging all those who don’t donate money to the poor, and still consider those bands black or death metal?
Christian black metal, for-fucking-sooth.
Remember, the existence of “Satan” requires the existence of “God”.
Yes, the lyrics do have a big part in the “scene” or community surrounding death and black metal, but the actual MUSIC part is the part I love the most. I don’t give a damn most times whether I can understand what the vocalist is saying as long as the music is fucking good. I honestly don’t really care all that much about what people are saying through the lyrics as long as the actual MUSIC gives me some sort of emotion or reaction. I do pay attention to lyrics too, but they’re really a lower priority to me than the actual playing of music. And I don’t give a shit if it’s kvlt or not.
Some of you idiots are so literal. Have any of you considered they’re looking for bands who have the musical style of black metal, but with antithetical lyrics?
This makes about as much sense, as it doesn’t make sense. When i think about metal in general, it is mostly about going against the grain of normallity. Personally, I dont know what is more against the grain than this?!
OK, as a Christian I fully stand behind my comments, but this…this is just completely and unnecessarily retarted: http://musicvault.firestream.net/rateimages/1782_05_09_2008_11_52_05_37693_photo.jpg
ROFLMAO
Behold, a member of the unblack metal band Elgibbor.
What’s wrong with having an interest in all metal bands, lyrical or not. Though I’m not too familiar with the bands on the comp, I’ve got a feeling some of them can play, or else they wouldn’t be on a CD.
As mentioned before, Extol rules. Go listen to Undeceived. Tell me it’s not an awesome effort.
And HellHammer drummed on Antestor’s The Forsaken. Besides, having all the other Black Metal bands want to kill you is about as Black Metal as you can get.
Monarch, that picture is ridiculous. Someone needs to make a coffee table book with all those bad pictures like that.
…Legend of Zelda goes black metal..?
I seriously wish it would stop. They do stupid shit like this all the time to fool fans of ANYTHING into liking their “movements”. “OH YEAH, KIDS, YOU LIKE BR00TAL METULZ…WELL CHECK OUT THIS BR00TUL METULZ WITH TEH JEEZUS…ITS METAL I SWEAR.” Don’t they have gay rights laws to protest?
What next? Westboro Baptist Church sponsors them?
Fuck this.
There is enough bad real black metal out there…now bad fake black metal? Lame. I’ll bet that these Christian black metal bands are all 3rd rate Dimmu Borgir clones.
what about Crimson Moonlight. they are better than any song Cradle of Filth has put out.
You see the majority of the people dissing “Christian black metal” hasn’t heard a single song from such a band.
Regardless of which way their crosses point, they’re all fucking ridiculous.
Being Christian is about as mainstream as apple pie and listening to Garth Brooks.
Sorry, but when you make up close to 80% of the USA pop. and are the largest religion in the world, you’ve gone a long way from playing the underdog martyr being thrown to the lions. You’re now more like…. or the freaking EMPEROR (pun, intended) of ROME.
I fail to see how Christian black metal is anymore ridiculous than black metal itself. To me, CBM would at least be appropriating something useless and retarded and trying to spin it with a good message.
Ever hear Crutch/Aletheian? (Damn band name changes.) Some of the best metal I’ve ever heard in my life, and lyrically they have a very positive message, but the music and imagery are brutal as fuck.
I know some christians that are way more evil than any satanist and I don’t mean that in a good way.
Now tell me who slaughtered more people in the name of religion, christians or satanists? I guess those christians win by a landslide. And they’ve killed/kill people in so many evil ways you can think of. So whose to say they can’t play evil bm? The foundation is already there for some evil grim lyrics of slaughter and mayhem, you dig…
Why the fuck is everyone acting like all Christian bands are controlled by the church and have some sort of agenda?
People have beliefs, and they express them in music.
Some people like and want to play black metal, so they do it that way.
The closeminded ones here are you pussies who can’t handle anyone going against your metal status quo.
I’m sure all of you disagree with the personal views of bands like Arghoslent, but can still appreciate their EXTREMELY good music.
Why should it be different with this?
You guys are just as bad as the “intolerant” Christians you’re bashing.
Conor – so the Christian view of the world is now an inherently “good” thing? Some of the most bigoted, uneducated, xenophobic, homophobic, anti-change fucktards I’ve known have been die-hard Christians who quoted Bible passages to back up every single one of their beliefs. Furthermore, if you think black metal is “useless and retarded,” why the fuck are you even posting on a metal site to begin with?
@ Joe A.
WTF? Do you even live in America? 80%? Dominant Religion? Seriously?
@ Robbie
um, YEP!
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions
2 more notes:
1. So what about Satanic Gospel music? or Atheistic Hymns?
Gospel music is explicitly Christian. In that way, Black Metal is explicitly anti-christian. Deal with it.
2. Screw all the little buggers saying that at least “christian” black metal is turning some “noise” into something positive. Black Metal is already positive by proclaiming no man should be a slave to a non-existent god. Besides, by noticing the names of the comments, most of this is coming from metalcore kids whom don’t even listen to any sort of real Metal anyway. So back the hell off.
While I’m not Christian by any stretch of the imagination, nor a huge black metal fan, one band out there to listen to is Horde, album Hellig Usvard
Fucking awesome black metal, you wouldn’t know it’s full of Christianity just from listening to it
Better than most black metal out there
Better than most…. wow dude, I’ve listened to Horde and I’d certainly would put them at the bottom of barrel. Even if it was full on satanic, I’d say it’s crap. It sounds exactly like the weak production bedroom recorded crap so many amateurs do. Hardly a single memorable riff. Try more Black Metal because there’s something obviously wrong if this is somehow the top of the hill quality stuff.
There are two kinds of lyrical content in metal, fantasy-based (maiden, priest, manowar, morbid angel, deicide, nile, etc) and social commentary-based (biohazard, napalm death, (some) pantera, slipknot, etc.). It’s the nature of the genre… it’s about violent intense things. Either reality or fantasy. Fine. Black metal fits in the first category nicely. Vampires don’t really exist, nor zombies nor ghosts nor any of that medieval bullshit. Fine. Love it. Love a good fantasy book and a good fantasy movie. But ‘christian black metal’ is religious propaganda. It is designed to spread the word and to convince you to join the Lemming ranks. That fits neither category. That fits the bullshit category, regardless whether it’s sung to harps, flutes, or distorted electric guitars. In sum, to me, this even ain’t metal because of its underlying goal.
@Rul: Thoughtful comment, I really enjoyed reading it. But I have to disagree that “Christian black metal” differs from what you call “social commentary” metal. A message is a message is a message. One group of lemmings isn’t any less cool just because it’s bigger or more traditional, OK?
Everyone thinks the Other is the lemming. We’re all lemmings to our own causes, bro.
I appreciate your kind words, Conor.
Sure, a message is a message, but that’s the kind of statement that’s always true. What I disagree with is _the goal_ of the message. In the case of fantasy-based music, the purpose is to entertain. In the case of social commentary the purpose is to vent/bring awareness about a (subjective) perspective of reality. In the case of religion-based music, the purpose is inherently to “spread the word”, and to say “hey, I believe in religion X, and it’s awesome and I looooove it and I’m sooo much happier and free and enlightened than you guys, … but if you join me… you’ll be as merry as me!…” and that necessarily means recruitment. Keep religious/military recruitment out of music.
@ Rui
You’ve got to be kidding. Tr00 black metal is supposed to be “ALL about the message”. Do what thou wilt right? And fuck Christianity.
If you listen to Immolation, Morbid Angel, and pretty much more than 90% of the black metal out there, you can’t say that they don’t have a direct message they’re trying to send–mainly that Christianity is bull shit. At least in some of their songs. That is as much a propaganda message as the “Christian black metal” you’re talking about. Gaahl and King from Gorgoroth say that they don’t care about the music as much as the message they’re trying to get across. A large portion of death and black metal have violent and intense imagery to portray their social views on (largely) religion as well as other issues such as war, corruption, personal relationships, etc. There is also a fantasy aspect, but I’d say it’s largely to portray their own worldviews.
In addition, I’ve also listened to Horde. In fact, I’ve purchased it. And I’d say it’s NOT quality black metal either. Pretty mediocre actually. BUT I’m not counting out the fact that Christians CAN produce quality black metal style music as I’ve heard Exol and know they’re a great black/death metal band.
This will be debated until the end of the world, but take a step back off the high horse and think about it for a second? Does death metal always talk about death? Personally, lyrical content does not define genre for me. This is the same reason that Amon Amarth is NOT Viking Metal. Sure their lyrics are all about vikings (obviously) but their musical style is Melodic Death. Point of the matter is, if you start to name genres after lyrical content, that’s when every band ends up having their own genre and it gets ridiculous. Black metal has finite, tangible musical qualities, that sets it apart from thrash, death, or any other type of metal. It’s pretty obvious when you listen to it, that you are listening to black metal. When it comes down to it, I doubt the majority of people who listen to black metal are running around burning chuches and professing Satanic messages. Most of the listeners (especially here in the states) are not satanists at all. So how is it any different to listen to Satanic music while being an atheist (or whatever), or listen to Christian music while being an atheist (or whatever)? It’s obviously not going to change your believes or influences your actions, so what’s the big fuss?
@ Monarch
Nay, I be not kidding. Name one (just one) Morbid Angel song where they directly attack Christianity. It’s for the most part veiled, and always in opposition to Lovecraftian deities (Azagtoth, Chtulhu, etc.) so yes… Morbid Angel is not so much about world view, but rather fantasy. Namely, a Lovecraftian fantasy-inspired setting blended with their views of good and evil. But Morbid Angel could not care less if you started praying to Nyarlatothep and reciting from the Necronomicon. They don’t really believe that crap. There’s no religious propaganda at all in Morbid Angel. And that is my point.
Now, Christians *do* believe what they are saying when they talk about the bible…
Necronomicon: fake book, does not even exist. Bible: holy word of God. See the difference?
@ Andrew:
I believe that lyrical content does not define a genre either, but it’s just a staple for the genre to tend to have lyrical content against Christianity. My favorite death metal band (Death) does not even have a majority of death or gore lyrics in their catalog of music. I believe the style of music playing defines the genre. I never said that people who listen to black or death metal are Satanists or even believe what the music says. I’m living proof. I’m a Christian that loves death metal. Doesn’t mean I believe any and everything that I hear though.
@ Rui:
OK, Morbid Angel. I love their music. But subtelty is not their strong suit. Most of their lyrics ARE in a fantasy setting, but a lot of it is also has very thinly veiled anti-Christian sentiments. They name the Christian God multiple times in negative reference. I’m not even saying that Moribid Angel are Satanists or any other shit, but the message is still obvious that they oppose Christianity (at least in their songs).
As you asked, Rui–from the song Blasphemy off of Altars of Madness.
“Blasphemy
Chant the blasphemy
Mockery of the messiah
We curse the holy ghost
Enslaver of the weak
God of lies and greed
God of hypocrisy
We laugh at your bastard child
No god shall come before me
Blaspheme the ghost
Blasphemy of the holy ghost
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
Rebel against the church
Drink from the chalice of blasphemy
Rise up against the enslaver”
To finish….I’m not even really sure what we’re arguing or discussing about….
-I, Monarch
I don’t quite see what we’re disagreeing about haha.
@ Monarch
Stryper used to throw bibles into the crowd. You’ll never see that bullshit at a Deicide concert… Hell… Tom Araya came up with the title “God hates us all” and *he* claims he’s a christian (see “Metal: A Headbangers Journey” in Youtube).
I appreciate the direct anti-yhvh reference that Morbid make. Rare in deed, most of their opposition is veiled and can apply to any religion in the world. Sure, Death fall on the social-commentary side of the track, which is great (and Chuck is definitely a metal god on his own right).
I guess I’ll just shut up, and reserve my own right to throw up at the thought of mixing Jesus and more extreme forms of metal (I can tolerate Trouble and Paradise Lost and As I Lay Dying).
Cheers.
hey im a christian…. and i listen to everything. from opeth to between the buried and me to behemoth. as a christian i have to respect everyone’s beliefs and opinions. i like behemoth a lot i know they talk about Christ in a bad way but i still respect them because i have too. i like their music though and respect them for their talent. People all have their opinions and everyone should respect each other christian or not.
@ pat
Did God respect Onan’s choice not to impregnante his late brother’s wife? No, he killed him. Did God respect the people of Sodoma, for their opinions and choice of life? No, he killed them. What about the two mass genocides? When Jesus saw the moneychangers and animal-sellers, did he respect their way of life and opinions? No, he was furious. What about the Pharisees?”Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?” What do preachers do when confronted with gay rights, and gay marriage and abortion and condoms? Do they respect? That’s not what I see and read.
I’m not talking about respect Pat, I’m talking about correct and incorrect. If someone adds up 4 5=2 they they are wrong, and their result deserves no respect. Bullshit deserves nothing. And christianity black_metal = oxymoron, like this very page suggests.
I really want to shut up now!
@pat: Cheers. I find your outlook underrepresented both inside and outside the Christian scene (as well as the metal scene, while we’re at it). Andrew made a good point that genres should pertain primarily to the music, not the lyrics. Right?
@Rui: I love Lovecraft and Morbid Angel like crazy, but they were both anti-Christian. Sorry. No point in trying to argue that either was above debasing the religion of the Western world. And I still think that whatever your message is, you’re still proselytizing. That’s not bad! But I fail to see the difference between “Join my church” and “Buy this brand of peanut butter” or even “Rise up and fight the neocons.”
Again: Props to Crutch/Aletheian and because someone said it, AILD.
The classic genre for “Christian” bands to fall into has always been metalcore. Haste the Day, As I Lay Dying, August Burns Red, the list goes on. But there are a number of good extreme Christian metal bands. As already stated, Crutch/Aletheian and Extol, but there are others not to forget. Antestor plays some decent “christian black metal” and actually deal with pretty morbid things (and even bring up the questioning of their own faith at times). For death metal, Soul Embraced is decent, but another shining star (to me at least) is Becoming the Archetype. I think its best to have an open mind in dealing with these things.
This is just a general societal statement about metal, and actually music in general. The schisms and debates and elitism and fights that occur are really sad and oftentimes hypocritical. Music grows through diffusion and crossover. Some of that is musical diffusion and crossover, some of it is lyrical, concerning imagery, or stage show. Conor, what you said about messages is spot on and a good point. Every band is going to have its believes and message they profess. Sometimes its serious, sometimes its goofy. Sometimes it just sounds goofy. I’m sure the tr00 black metal kids all hate bands like Dimmu, Cradle, and Behemoth and say they don’t really believe it. Behemoth has toured with The Showdown let’s not forget. But how are we supposed to really know who believes what, or what to listen to and what not too. I’m rambling, but what I’m essentially trying to say is that people should keep an open mind and not be so critical and elitist when dealing with music, but especially Metal. And maybe that doesn’t make me tr00 or br00tal or real metal. But somehow I think I’ll live.
Also, I think its in the best interest of all parties to avoid straight religious bashing and debate. We can go to youtube for that if we want it.
Nicely said.
I’m glad I did no bashing, and that I merely mentioned biblical facts. Oh, but I forgot, you can’t do that either. Ah… Liberty, you elusive french whore…
I still don’t see what the big deal is. If you don’t like it, don’t listen to it. If the message bothers you, do what most Christians do and don’t listen to anything “dangerous”. There are a billion other bands to listen to if you don’t like a couple of specific ones. And so a couple religious nutcases want to spread their beliefs and tell you all about their God… oh wait, that’s what Black Metal has done from the beginning. They just have a different interpretation of what “God” is.
I don’t have a problem with it either way, and that’s not just cause of my beliefs. I don’t see why anyone else should either. Black metal arguably never was “pure”, and definitely isn’t now.
And if 80% of this country considers themselves Christian, we’re in pretty sorry shape and setting a very poor example. I have a feeling that those statistics are fundamentally flawed, or are poorly sampled. 4 out of 5 of my neighbors are NOT Christians; and they definitely don’t act like it. I think if you look around, you’ll find that too, even if you live in the bible belt.
Most of the comments in this thread are half way decent. But I’m still amazed at how much hatred such an open minded group of people (read: metalheads) has for this subject.
Still major thumbs up for Extol, and glad to see Soul Embraced mentioned here. And Stryper? Phffft. So what if they threw bibles, that was twenty freaking years ago. How many of us were actually there for that.
- Robbie
I never said I was being forced to listen to anything. I don’t like it, I won’t listen, I don’t agree with the nomenclature, and I feel like expressing my opinion. Sorry if my opinion offends you, but that should not even happen. Apparently expressing disagreement is a no-no. Whenever someone disagrees, we are bound by the “respect” rule and all discussion must terminate. I did not attack any person here, I just attacked the ideas. But wait, let’s all agree to disagree and be lame and sheep and silent.
Black Metal lyrics refer to *the same* Judaio-Christian god, the lyrics are against rather than in favor. Satan is idolized, but God is still God. And the whole thing is *fantasy*, and art, no brainwashing included. But I’ve made this point 3 times already, so no need to go at it yet again.
Hey, I was a metal head teenager 20 years ago, so I could have easily have been injured with a bible to the head, were I misguided enough to find myself at a Stryper concert. But then again, maybe the damage could actually be beneficial, so let me respect their bible tossing instincts.
well their is no such thing as christian black metal…. since black metal opposses God. lol pretty hyprocritical, but either way i still love black metal.
@ rui:
None of my comments were directed at you, if you took them that way, I’m sorry. And what’s wrong with agreeing to disagree?
Half the black metalers out there seem to to think of themselves as God. I don’t think it as all that different that the new age hippies. Their retaliaton against the Judeo-Christian God was was just as much out of convienence as what was out of actual reasons.
- Robbie
I agree.
@ Robbie
Fine, would this one make you feel better?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2122.html
Deal with it. Americans are more “Christian” than any other world-view and the same goes for World Population even. You’re not the underdog.
As for whether people act Christian, well that depends on defining what makes one a christian and so far there are 38,000 differing church denominations.
As for where black metal fans stand, yes probably half if not more simply do it for rebellion or convenience. However, those behind the scene and those fans who can actually intellectually define themselves well know that opposition to Christianity isn’t something the just popped up in the 60’s with the counter-culture (funny how many Christians think that the world began to decay in the 60’s). Ever since the Enlightenment, pre-christian ideas have been brought back into view and new concepts have been continually developed since then. If there is one focal point that Black Metal takes most of it’s philosophical grounding from it is in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche.
@ Joe A.
I’m thinking that I’m mostly just shocked by the “official” numbers. I’d be surprised if there is anywhere in the U.S.A. where 70% – 80% of the population goes to church on Sunday. Even once a month, or more than two or three times a year for that matter. I’ve never filled out a census, but I’ve got the feeling that there isn’t really an option for “none”, and most people probably check Christian off because it’s what their parents or grandparents were at one point, and they’re guilted into it.
I’m in the Southwest. America here is a secular nation here. Yeah, there is plenty of churches around, but they only rule the lives of a few devout, while most just pass them by. Not too many really care. It’s different in the Bible Belt, but I honestly don’t think it’s all that different. You’re welcome to disagree though.
Underdog? Deal with it? My faith is my own. I’ll openly talk about, and don’t have a problem with it when appropriate, but I’m not accosting people at the shopping mall about it. I think it’s disgusting when people do. Doesn’t matter what they have to say. I get pissed when I go to the library and someone tries to get me to sign some piece of paper for some political proposition that they don’t know anything about either.
I still fail to see what the big deal is. If you don’t like it, don’t listen to it. No one is making you. I hate Korn. I don’t like the way they sound, I don’t like what they have to say, I don’t like what they represent. So I don’t listen to Korn. So Black Metal isn’t as KVLT as it used to be. Big deal, the hot topic kids found out about it too. It sucks.
Metal is huge. It think it’s big enough for a bunch of religious nuts, on BOTH sides. And agreed on Black Metal and Nietzsche.
@ Rui:
Also, thumbs up for being into metal for more than twenty years!
@ Everyone:
This topic sucks. Everyone go listen to Emperor. NOW
- Robbie
^ I think it’s big enough, not it.
I should be proofreading. There is probably other mistakes as well. I don’t care.
Well Said Robbie, especially about the go listen to Emperor part haha.
IMO any decent christian band is more pushing values rather than straight out screaming “praise jesus” and religion has nothing to do with talent, theres just alot less christians into black metal, hence alot less really talented bands.