I should be proofreading. There is probably other mistakes as well. I don’t care.

I’m thinking that I’m mostly just shocked by the “official” numbers. I’d be surprised if there is anywhere in the U.S.A. where 70% – 80% of the population goes to church on Sunday. Even once a month, or more than two or three times a year for that matter. I’ve never filled out a census, but I’ve got the feeling that there isn’t really an option for “none”, and most people probably check Christian off because it’s what their parents or grandparents were at one point, and they’re guilted into it.

I’m in the Southwest. America here is a secular nation here. Yeah, there is plenty of churches around, but they only rule the lives of a few devout, while most just pass them by. Not too many really care. It’s different in the Bible Belt, but I honestly don’t think it’s all that different. You’re welcome to disagree though.

Underdog? Deal with it? My faith is my own. I’ll openly talk about, and don’t have a problem with it when appropriate, but I’m not accosting people at the shopping mall about it. I think it’s disgusting when people do. Doesn’t matter what they have to say. I get pissed when I go to the library and someone tries to get me to sign some piece of paper for some political proposition that they don’t know anything about either.

I still fail to see what the big deal is. If you don’t like it, don’t listen to it. No one is making you. I hate Korn. I don’t like the way they sound, I don’t like what they have to say, I don’t like what they represent. So I don’t listen to Korn. So Black Metal isn’t as KVLT as it used to be. Big deal, the hot topic kids found out about it too. It sucks.

Metal is huge. It think it’s big enough for a bunch of religious nuts, on BOTH sides. And agreed on Black Metal and Nietzsche.

@ Rui:

Also, thumbs up for being into metal for more than twenty years!

@ Everyone:

This topic sucks. Everyone go listen to Emperor. NOW

- Robbie

Fine, would this one make you feel better?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2122.html

Deal with it. Americans are more “Christian” than any other world-view and the same goes for World Population even. You’re not the underdog.

As for whether people act Christian, well that depends on defining what makes one a christian and so far there are 38,000 differing church denominations.

As for where black metal fans stand, yes probably half if not more simply do it for rebellion or convenience. However, those behind the scene and those fans who can actually intellectually define themselves well know that opposition to Christianity isn’t something the just popped up in the 60′s with the counter-culture (funny how many Christians think that the world began to decay in the 60′s). Ever since the Enlightenment, pre-christian ideas have been brought back into view and new concepts have been continually developed since then. If there is one focal point that Black Metal takes most of it’s philosophical grounding from it is in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche.

None of my comments were directed at you, if you took them that way, I’m sorry. And what’s wrong with agreeing to disagree?

Half the black metalers out there seem to to think of themselves as God. I don’t think it as all that different that the new age hippies. Their retaliaton against the Judeo-Christian God was was just as much out of convienence as what was out of actual reasons.

- Robbie

Black Metal lyrics refer to *the same* Judaio-Christian god, the lyrics are against rather than in favor. Satan is idolized, but God is still God. And the whole thing is *fantasy*, and art, no brainwashing included. But I’ve made this point 3 times already, so no need to go at it yet again.

Hey, I was a metal head teenager 20 years ago, so I could have easily have been injured with a bible to the head, were I misguided enough to find myself at a Stryper concert. But then again, maybe the damage could actually be beneficial, so let me respect their bible tossing instincts.

I don’t have a problem with it either way, and that’s not just cause of my beliefs. I don’t see why anyone else should either. Black metal arguably never was “pure”, and definitely isn’t now.

And if 80% of this country considers themselves Christian, we’re in pretty sorry shape and setting a very poor example. I have a feeling that those statistics are fundamentally flawed, or are poorly sampled. 4 out of 5 of my neighbors are NOT Christians; and they definitely don’t act like it. I think if you look around, you’ll find that too, even if you live in the bible belt.

Most of the comments in this thread are half way decent. But I’m still amazed at how much hatred such an open minded group of people (read: metalheads) has for this subject.

Still major thumbs up for Extol, and glad to see Soul Embraced mentioned here. And Stryper? Phffft. So what if they threw bibles, that was twenty freaking years ago. How many of us were actually there for that.

- Robbie

This is just a general societal statement about metal, and actually music in general. The schisms and debates and elitism and fights that occur are really sad and oftentimes hypocritical. Music grows through diffusion and crossover. Some of that is musical diffusion and crossover, some of it is lyrical, concerning imagery, or stage show. Conor, what you said about messages is spot on and a good point. Every band is going to have its believes and message they profess. Sometimes its serious, sometimes its goofy. Sometimes it just sounds goofy. I’m sure the tr00 black metal kids all hate bands like Dimmu, Cradle, and Behemoth and say they don’t really believe it. Behemoth has toured with The Showdown let’s not forget. But how are we supposed to really know who believes what, or what to listen to and what not too. I’m rambling, but what I’m essentially trying to say is that people should keep an open mind and not be so critical and elitist when dealing with music, but especially Metal. And maybe that doesn’t make me tr00 or br00tal or real metal. But somehow I think I’ll live.

Also, I think its in the best interest of all parties to avoid straight religious bashing and debate. We can go to youtube for that if we want it.

@Rui: I love Lovecraft and Morbid Angel like crazy, but they were both anti-Christian. Sorry. No point in trying to argue that either was above debasing the religion of the Western world. And I still think that whatever your message is, you’re still proselytizing. That’s not bad! But I fail to see the difference between “Join my church” and “Buy this brand of peanut butter” or even “Rise up and fight the neocons.”

Again: Props to Crutch/Aletheian and because someone said it, AILD.

I really want to shut up now!

I appreciate the direct anti-yhvh reference that Morbid make. Rare in deed, most of their opposition is veiled and can apply to any religion in the world. Sure, Death fall on the social-commentary side of the track, which is great (and Chuck is definitely a metal god on his own right).

I guess I’ll just shut up, and reserve my own right to throw up at the thought of mixing Jesus and more extreme forms of metal (I can tolerate Trouble and Paradise Lost and As I Lay Dying).

Cheers.