MORBID ANGEL’S TREY AZAGTHOTH STIRS SHIT UP
Thursday, February 5th, 2009 at 11:06am by Axl Rosenberg
As you may have read on Blabbermouth by now, Trey Azagthoth has posted a lengthy State of the Metal address on his MySpace page. It’s long and it’s a lot to digest, but I’ve posted the entire thing after the jump. Given Azagthoth’s already-secure place in metal history, I think it’s worth pondering what he has to say seriously (As opposed to just saying “Azagthoth rules!” or “Morbid Angel is for fags!” or whatever other pithy statements to which the peanut gallery might resort). Okay, here we go:
“Is the metal scene closed-minded???? Well, is it????
“My purpose with this blog is that I have a desire to create some live performance concerts sometime in the future that include a set of Morbid Angel along with sets of the most extreme representitives of industrial, hardcore, terrorcore, jungle drum and bass etc DJs and groups. EXTREME MUSIC FOR EXTREME PEOPLE!!!! Right???
“Well, so it seems there are certain promoters and so-called ‘authorities of the scene’ who have some idea that such a gig won’t work. Saying that metal people are narrow-minded and hate the various forms of hardcore DJ music for one reason or another. Is this true???
“People who know me know I am already a freaky freak artist and so then such an idea for crossing over such types of music is amazing. Exciting!!! As long as it’s freakin’ HARD-HITTING and SICK!!!!!!
“So… Why not, I ask.
“What is metal anyways???
“For me, ‘metal’ is for those who are bored with the constrictions and ’safe practices’ of the mainsteam mentality, just like with any other socalled ‘underground’ scene or movement. Metal people wanna get mowed down by vicously sick melodies slamming over an arrangement of beats that twist the body and pull it in all directions. Freak them up. Metal, for me, is also about self-discovery. Not being sheep-like and playing ‘follow the leader’ but rather its about being free to express one’s own ideas without the fear of ridicule. If there isn’t any guts involved to challenge whatever is the current accepted patterns, then there isn’t much in possibility for any new things to arise.
“What are metal lyrics even about if not about either breaking free from the dominion of some slavery-oppression, or the act of rejoicing in the pleasure of what people have passions about? Of course, there are also lyrics about fantasy and mindfuck as well too. !!!=RAWR=!!! ;)
“For me, it most certainly ISN’T about tribal-group mentality nor mainstream behavioral thinking. It’s not about playing it safe either.
“What is the mentality of the mainstream??? Seems to me it’s quite associated with sheepish behavoirs, placing value on ‘fitting in and the approval of others’ instead of the freedoms of self expression.
“What defines the term ‘underground???’ Isnt it when people place what they believe inside of themselves over what is supposedly supported in their exterior mainstream environment???
“What is the difference in fabricating a product and creating art????
“Where does ‘trendy-ness’ surface and what is it to be trendy?? Isn’t it when people cannot find the source of certainties, direction and/or selfworth within themselves, especially as in those times when they are alone and not distracted, so therefore they need to base their certainties on how things reflect off of their external environment, including their peers?? Adjusting themselves to be considered favorable and to attract the approval of others outside of themselves???
“For some people in the world, the only thing ‘real’ is that which can be measured by the five mundane senses. For them, the inner workings are as some mysterious make believe which they sometimes play around with until any serious situation arises and then such things are placed back in the realm of ‘make believe,’ they, of course, fall back to earth and work from whichever foundation they find ‘certainty’ in, no??? Isn’t this a formula based on the dependence of others, and if so, what does this have to do with the freedoms of such a thing as independence??? Where is the ’strength’ in such a behavoir??? Is it just that maybe it’s considered ‘cool’ and that’s cool enough???
“OK, so the question is, do metal people only enjoy gigs with a metal-only billing??? Or do metal people also enjoy some crossover, as long as it’s freakin’ over-the-top EXTREME???? Does anyone even care??? Please chime in. I wanna hear from you.”
Okay, Trey, I’m chiming in: I actually agree that, by and large, the metal community has the ability to be very close-minded. Unfortunately, the ideals metal would seem to set forth aside, we’re just as susceptible to group-think as any other community. Racism, sexism, and idealized declarations of what is or is not “tr00″ abound. It’s a sad state of affairs.
That being said, I don’t find DJs especially interesting in a live setting (What is there to watch, especially if you’re not rolling?), and I have zero interest in jungle drum n’ bass, which generally strikes as music made with the sole intent of causing migraines and seizures (And that’s not based on close mindedness, but experience – I’ve had more friends than I care to admit who are into jungle and its ilk, and the shit bores me to tears. Sorry.).
BUT… if Morbid Angel did a show or a tour with said DJs and different styles of music, I would probably be open to at least giving it a shot, because, well, it’s Morbid Angel and they have my respect – the chances that these DJs would turn out to be as lame as someone like Necro (or Mixmaster Mike, who I once had the displeasure of watching open for Axl Rose) seems slim.
Okay, kiddies. Time for you to weigh in below.
-AR
I think he made a lot of good points, it was quite dense but he’s right about metal being about expressing individuality. Metalheads need to be open minded in order for the genre to grow and evolve. What if metal and hardcore had never been merged to create thrash? Granted, there can be some downsides (“metal” in the mid to late 90’s anyone?)
There are quite a lot of DJ’s and Electronic artists I like also, jungle and otherwise. I saw Aphex Twin, Pendulum and Squarepusher at a music festival in june and they were amongst the best performances I’ve been to.
The greatest characteristic of a true metal fan is also their worst characteristic: They are stubborn, loyal die hard fans who refuse to let anyone give them less than what they expect from an artist. These are fans that tore Metallica and Pantera to shreds for stepping outside their comfort zone and slowly welcomed them with open arms when they came back to form. And God bless them for it.
Anybody who dares to tread down that dangerous road knows that they will inevitably gain less fans than they lose (at least in the beginning) for wanting to stretch their artistic legs.
While I’m not opposed to Trey’s views, Axl and the two above me really hit it on the nose. The thing about different genres of music is that it all comes down to taste for a sound. You can’t make a metalcore lover become obsessed with better metal just by introducing it to them and saying, “it’s better”. I think that Trey missed when he pointed out that it’s about the extremity of it.
Extremity can be measured differently by everyone and that’s the big problem. A friend of mine says she loves extreme metal and defines this as Killswitch Engage, which I completely disagree with.. there are a couple of crossovers Trey mentioned that will work. Get some heavy Industrial in there and not many will turn away because it’ll probably sound metal enough for them (and bands like KMFDM and Skinny Puppy are real fun to watch, live!) but then when you bring in the heavy techno or jungle, you run into some problems due to underlying differences in the music, and – more importantly – underlying differences with the subculture that’s developed AROUND the music. Let’s face it, the majority of metalheads don’t think that ravers are all that extreme.
It’s a good idea Trey, but you’ve got to learn your fans and take them into account too.
Maybe for all of his experimental ideas, he should just do what everyone else does – siiiide projectt.
Trey, I think you touch on some good points. Metal is a unique genre in that it attracts people of great intelligence and meatheads. I think metal is gradually becoming more open minded and it’s leaving behind alot of the homophobia, racism, sexism, and general stupidity of the past. It’s the only genre where true artistic creativity can be rewarded unlike pop or rap or country.
However, some things just don’t mix. If I’m at a metal show, I want metal. If I want a techno rave, I’ll go to a techno club. Same if I want goth, country, or hip hop. It’s possible to have wildly varying tastes in music, but it doesn’t mean it would be a great idea to necessarily put them in the same room.
I’ve found the metal community to be this odd dichotomy of “express yourself/be yourself/fuck whatever anyone else thinks” and its evil twin of close minded, homophobic, false bravado assholes who have such a narrow definition of metal and music in general – who believe if they don’t like something it must suck. I love metal and feel like one of some brotherhood with many, but at the same time feel disdain for this undertone of intolerance.
It is probably a sign of my closed-mindedness that I can’t take anyone who repeatedly uses “???” seriously.
You don’t get it man he’s expressing himself in the most extreme way by adding extra question marks to his rhetorical queries!!!
I would definitely check this out, but then again I am a big fan of MA and fat beats so I don’t see any problems.
While a lot of metalheads might like or tolerate techno/etc, I doubt that many techoheads (?) can take extreme metal… the tolerance would need to work both ways.
Here’s the thing:
Trey Azagthoth is an awesome guitarist in a legendary metal band who totally rock the shit. I cannot imagine disliking Morbid Angel. So when he begins this post with ‘Is the metal scene close-minded?’ and then goes on to talk about metal bands playing with DJs or drum-and-bass musicians, it basically translates into ‘Is the metal scene close-minded, or are you folks willing to do what I say?’
It’d be one thing if he really posed the question–it’s a very good and relevant one, and Azagthoth is generally a smart dude–but questioning the mindset of the scene that created your career so you can insinuate YOUR preferences on your fans just doesn’t sit right with me. Scenes are easy to lash out at. Yes, herd mentality, racism, homophobia, all of that stuff is utter bullshit, but there are a million ways for the metal scene to overcome that then add a jungle DJ to a metal show.
Maybe next time, Trey should simply do what he suggests rather than question the stones of the scene.
I am a big techno fan and listen to it regularly. I saw Tiesto last summer at Hammerstein and it was fucking incredible. Now with that being said would I rather go see Cannibal Corpse or Tiesto? CC by a mile. Seeing them at the same show…..idk how well that would work. Personally I could find a way to enjoy it but the majority I doubt it.
I’ll say it, because no one else wants to…
Morbid Angel is over. Their best days are behind them. And it is all Trey’s fault. I mean, who prefers Heretic or Gateways over Blessed and Covenant? I’ve yet to meet a soul. And through all the lineup there is Trey, writing riffs and re-writing lyrics. Once he was a creative guitarist who tried to move the air with his playing. Now he is a guy who smokes a lot of pot and apparently spends all day playing video games. So is it so surprising that the last few albums have been lackluster?
Which brings me to this crossover idea. It isn’t new. Who here remembers To Mega Therion? I do. And I know that it didn’t go anywhere, and I remember what eventually followed: Cold Lake. So what exactly is extreme about Drum and Bass or whatnot? And what does a DJ have to do with a death metal band.
We know that this won’t work because we’ve seen bands in the same overall genre suffer through a crowd mix. I mean how many concerts have you attended where the opening acts are ignored because everyone is only there for the headliner? Or if there is a co-headlining tour, how many people leave after “their” band has played and the final act plays to a half empty hall?
In short, this won’t work because metal fans are fickle.
i prefer Heretic to the other older albums, though i love the old stuff —i think Heretic is the best stuff Trey has ever come up with, so there
so know u know—taime
I love Morbid angel, and I can see where he is taking this.
I saw a band at ABC No Rio, I think Apocalyptic Visions was their name. And at the end of their set each member put down their guitar/bass and pulled out REAL drums and garbage cans. And they played a rhythm with a jungle feel to it, Each member playing a separate synchronized beat. Then the guitarist set the garbage can and fire and pulled out a chain saw started sawing at the can. The sound of the saw was actually in sync with the rest of the band. It was pretty sick and jungley/industrial to an extent.
But if Trey was thinking something along the lines of that, that would be pretty cool. But either way I am pretty excited at what Trey can pull out of his bag of tricks.
Anybody else think Berzkerker or the Animosity & Drumcorp collaboration while reading this?
Is this his way to describe incorporating that awful MIDI Final Fantasy music into Domination? Because if so, I am definitely closeminded because that shit was horrible.
I agree with his ideas and i hate close-mindedness as well, but i have personally toured for many years and experienced festivals that included all types of extreme music and they usually didnt go over well. Fests with such different types of music only sort-of work if there are different stages, but if it is all on one stage, usually that would be when most people left to either smoke, use the bathroom, or hit up the bar. The other horrible way that concerts have tried to incorporate DJs is to have them spinning in between bands, but that is always super annoying because you want your ears to have a break from the extreme in between sets and that just puts everyone in a bad mood.
I could definately see Morbid Angel doing a fest or tour with cross-over extreme bands like The Amenta, Anaal Nathrakh, The Berzerker, Genghis Tron, Noism, or that new band with Jon Chang of DA(i forget their name). At least that would still be in the metal vein even though they have major electronic elements and it would help the flow of the show be alot smoother.
ALso, i completely hate jungle and trance music and would never be into it.
Even though Trey is kind of a dingus, he made some decent points here. Some non decent points include:
Yes, most people who are into metal are pretty close-minded, rejecting any music that is not metal. This goes for people who are into pretty much any specific genre of music (hip-hop, punk, blues, jazz, etc.) There’s a reason the term “[genre] purist” exists.
And yes, while a show featuring Morbid Angel and a darkstep (Evol Intent?) or hard drum & bass group (maybe Atari Teenage Riot? Oh wait, they completely chug horse semen live) would be exciting for some people (me), most people would still not like it, as most extreme music fans tend to like their music organic, viewing anything involving synthesizers or samplers as fake (regardless of how much talent it takes to actually make listenable music with these instruments [hint: it takes tons of talent]) And it would indeed be pretty visually uninteresting to watch.
That being said, I think acceptance of these kinds of extreme electronic music will gain more of a foothold in the metal scene with bands such as Genghis Tron, Dillinger Escape Plan, The Berzerker, etc. putting out a crossover sound.
And, just for the record, Hibernium, I like Gateways and Heretic as much as I like Blessed, Covenant, and Domination. They are all pretty sweet. That live album was kind of a bummer, though. Who the fuck thinks live albums are worth a damn? “Hey, let’s buy a CD full of shittier versions of songs we already own and love! It will be totally boss!”
hey i dont have a problem with open minded to all kinds of music. i myself love jazz ad blues so that kind outside of the circle of metal. but i really wish morbid would really put out an album.
I think a lot of the naysayers misunderstood what he’s saying. He doesn’t want a ridiculous Nu-Metal type thing where DJs play WITH metal bands on songs. He’s not trying to combine the styles of music together. He just wants to have a festival that plays more than one type of music. He’s saying he wants a festival where one act is metal, the next is a jungle DJ, the next is a grindcore band, the next are some crazy techno-terrorists etc…
I agree with Trey’s sentiments that many types of sounds fall under the “sensory assault” category, and the same aspects of that which draw us to metal are also present in other forms of music. I think the festival is a great idea. Especially if you threw some noise rock in there as well. It would be the perfect festival at which to eat a 5-strip of some powerful acid and go totally apeshit. You’d never know what hit you. You would leave that shit feeling like neon gorillas just trampled all over your body and then threw you into the ocean.
The number of comments posted that include closed minded statements in regards to this blog about closed minded metal fans is rather ironic.
I’d totally be up for Merzbow or M1Dy touring with MA. Merzbow live is just beyond brutal. (For the record, I’m not a weaboo.)
Rob,
Really? You liked those albums? Didn’t they bore you? You didn’t think that the riffs were repetitive? That the pacing on the songs was all the same? I mean I know that on the internet you can find people into all sorts of crazy shit, like people who think that Reek of Putrefaction was the best Carcass album and all that…but really?
Oh, and now would be a great time for someone to post a video of Trey hosting Headbanger’s Ball. If you ever read the liner notes to Heretic (please don’t!), it is that in the flesh. When he said “Wowee”, I think a part of heavy metal died a little.
coincidentally when i got burned out by the utter shit coming out in the metal world many years ago i turned my attention towards electronic music, particularly dnb. it took a while to ‘get it’, and it’s not something you listen to in the same way as you would any kind of band-driven music, but once it clicks it’s an amazing experience. a lot of the hardcore techno/drum and bass/idm music is WAY more ‘extreme/br00tal’ than any metal i’ve heard in the last 20 years of being a fan.
i get what trey’s going for, but i have my doubts as to how well it would work. every genre, regardless of how it’s created or played, is usually comprised of an enormous percentage of ignorant elitist fans who express disdain towards anything that doesn’t follow an established archetype.
anyways, i don’t think it’s a huge stretch for many metal fans to appreciate electronic acts like drumcorps, venetian snares, bong-ra, technical itch, etc., but i can totally understand how they could hear something like pendulum or dj tiesto and be turned off from EM entirely, assuming it all sounds like that. =)
Yeah, friend of jxk here and I found myself in the same boat when he introduced me to electronic music seven or eight years ago — mostly drum n bass. It’s very easy to see how this sort of music could appeal to metalheads at large, along with vaguely adjacent genres such as noise, industrial, and power electronics.
What’s funny about this is that I find this whole “EXTREME MUSIC FOR EXTREME PEOPLE” thing coming out of the Morbid Angel camp these days to be really juvenile, silly, and barely representative of my own approach to metal or any other form of music. It’s more like a slogan for Slipknot or Hot Topic T-Shirt Band X than something I would expect or want to hear from Morbid Angel, which was one of my very favorite bands in my youth and one that I regarded with cultish fervor until the end of the ’90s. I saw them as clandestine legends in the flesh.
Nowadays I don’t listen to much dance/beat-oriented electronic music, but it still interests me. More than that I’m into black metal, death metal, or doom metal that is concerned not just with being “brutal” or “extreme” but also/moreso with altering and expanding upon the potential of this music texturally and aesthetically — bands like Deathspell Omega, etc.
Would I attend an event like this? Covenant and Altars are two of the best metal albums ever recorded, but considering what Morbid Angel have become I’d probably be more interested in seeing what kind of electronic music Trey would pick out.
I don’t mind some of the more electronic oriented bands. I’m just sick of this whole recent notion that DJ’s are somehow musician’s.
Hibernium: Yeah, I still think they’re pretty sweet albums. Definitely a little similar in terms of riffs, pacing, and songwriting, but they are still solid efforts. I absolutely realize I am far, far in the minority on this, to the point of being the only person I know of who will admit to liking either of those albums, but I like the way they play. It might have something to do with the fact that I am not a giant Morbid Angel fan, and I’m able to enjoy the music on its own, rather than evaluating it against other albums.
Robotscythe: it depends on what kind of DJ you are talking about. The dildos who go up there and just play other people’s records verbatim are absolutely not musicians (although some aspects of it are tricky, it doesn’t require much talent or skill.) But I think the guys who do the scratching and beat juggling qualify as musicians. That is crazy hard, not just anybody can do it, and it takes a ton of practice and dedication; in addition they are creating something new, albeit using someone else’s music as a springboard. And the people who write and produce the electronic music are also skilled musicians. Again, probably a minority opinion (I also think rappers should be considered singers) but hell, that’s what the comments section is for.
Erik Rutan. Period.
Did you know that Trey Azigthoth (a.k.a George Emmanuel), age 42, still lives with ‘mommy’ in a one-bedroom condo in Gulfport, Florida.? Did you know that “Trey’ drives a 12-year-old Pontiac that he thinks is a classic, but really isn’t? And that he spends more money on that car than a sane person would spend on a Maserati?? Did you know that ‘mommy’, with whom he lives, has half the people in the community pissed off at her? Did you know that “George” is an aging remnant of a musical genre that is already dead — as the name “death metal” implies — only his fans have yet to realize that. Total fraud
u are gay dude—-u think u know trey–you are writing gossip, little girl
the dude is on tour
you are on a pc
Trey is a self-absorbed fool (forever trying to proove to the word that he thinks totally for himself while at the same time qouting the conartist self-help freud TONY Robbins) and should keep his mouth shut. He lies about himself being “THE Morbid Angel creator and SOLE founding member”. This is bullshit. Mike Browning and Dallas Ward also were band founders EQUALLY.
The first 3 Morbid Angel albums were the best. Domination wasn’t too bad.
After that, all the albums are unarranged sloppy peices of SHIT.
That’s because Trey didn’t have David Vincent to help him with the arrangements.
Check out this
http://www.voicesfromthedarkside.de/interviews/mikebrowning.htm