GOD FORBID’S DOC COYLE RESPONDS TO INTERNET CRITICISM
Tuesday, March 3rd, 2009 at 12:56pm by Doc Coyle
The Adequate Response to Criticism; An Artist’s Perspective
Criticism. Criticism is something all artists who release their work on a broad scale must encounter. Many of us who do so approach these reflections in our own ways. On Metalsucks, my blogger brother, Dallas, has had the monopoly on providing that perspective in regards to God Forbid, which I think is unfortunate because I think it provides an inaccurate picture of the band’s collective or individual views. My motivations in writing this are not only to respond to the detractors of my band, but also to give an alternative view on the mindset of the motivations and mentality behind what we (who aren’t Dallas in God Forbid) do and what we hope to accomplish.
Not too long ago, Dallas released a blog insisting that he hoped our new album would get bad reviews in light of a theory that bad reviews would trigger some kind of reverse psychological effect in terms of success with the band. I guess that theory has some basis in the fact in that some bands whom although they don’t necessarily get critical acclaim, it isn’t directly tied to overall record sales or popularity (Disturbed, Insane Clown Posse, etc). The fact is, God Forbid has more or less gotten good reviews since the release of Determination, and maintained a good relationship with the metal media. In a sense, I feel like metal media has always been rooting for us. In that respect, I felt the assertion was off base because I felt pretty good about the new album. The only effect Dallas’s commentary would have is to make some people who would normally be allies into adversaries. I think what he was generally trying to say was that he doesn’t care what people think. What many people who respond to Metalsucks and Blabbermouth don’t understand is that he is mainly trying to push buttons, and even if the commentary is negative, you’re doing something right as long as people are talking about you. I think the jury is still out on that one.
Dallas may have mentioned this before, but the band confronted him about his blog after the first one where he called Hilary Clinton a nigger. Personally, I didn’t think it had anything to do with music, and would bring negative attention to the band, and give people a reason not to like us who would’ve otherwise just taken the music for what it was without any real prejudice. I didn’t ask him to stop blogging, but I wished he would’ve done his own personal blog, not on a metal website. He refused, and in general I admitted that I felt like I couldn’t or shouldn’t control his actions and expressions, so he continued on with the blog, and I felt it improved over time in terms of focus, content, intellect, and depth.
As the release of Earthsblood approached, there seemed to be more focused support of God Forbid on Metalsucks, which was almost immediately followed by backlash. People need to understand that there is no fucking conspiracy to hype God Forbid. We didn’t ask them, and Century Media isn’t secretly paying them off to hype us more than any other band. They decided on their own that they loved our new record, and wanted to do what they could to support us. In all honesty, I felt it was too much as well because metal heads are essentially nonconformists and the more you push something down their throats, the more they want to hate it. So I empathize with those sentiments. But then, more support came from all over the Internet. Earthsblood was receiving very high scores from many of the top sites like smnnews, theprp, a million European sites, and then the infamous 9.5 from Blabbermouth (Although it did receive a couple of bad reviews like metalreview.com). The user rating on Blabbermouth is hovering around 6.3-6.4, which is a good 2 points below the user rating of our previous album Constitution of Treason. Now even if you like Constitution better, I find it hard to believe that it’s that much better than Earthsblood especially when I know in my heart it’s a great album, and the general consensus amongst critics is that it’s our best work. What seems glaring to me is that there is some sort of public internet backlash against God Forbid mainly rooted in Dallas’s outcries against “haters” and “blabberbitches”.
Unlike Dallas, I admit that I do care what people think. I do. I don’t create in a vacuum, but I also don’t create for others. As a diehard, stalwart metal head myself, I have faith in the fact that if I like it then others will enjoy it. I respect solid criticism, and the fact is that I think some people are more qualified than others and are able to be much more objective than most people. Most people WILL NOT admit that they inject their emotions, prejudices, and preferences into how they perceive art. What bothers me is when critics and fans try to look into their fictitious seeing-stone to guess what the motivations behind a certain song or album is. People need to get through their thick ignorant heads that an album (or at least Earthsblood) is created over the course of maybe a year or 2 and is a collective collaboration. Trust me, all of the things you don’t like about our album, we probably argued over in a rehearsal room or mixing room. We fight over every note, riff, lyric, and melody. It’s a compromise that you usually don’t know what it’s going to be until it’s completely done, and then you aren’t even sure if you like it yourself because you’re so close to the project. What I don’t want to hear is bullshit like, “man, how can this get crap get a 9.5 when the new cannibal corpse got a 7.5.” First off, it’s apples and oranges and it’s this new internet Generation Y idea that if something isn’t death metal then it sucks. I love Cannibal Corpse, but we do something completely different. We love many styles of music, and we try to put it all into our music, and don’t say it’s too ambitious either. Don’t blame us because you are too much of a pussy (critics and naysayers, not Cannibal Corpse) to push your abilities and lose fans. We take chances. It takes a lot more balls to switch things up than to do the same shit over and over again. We’d probably be bigger now if we would’ve stuck with just screaming, but we wanted to expand what we did vocally to fit the music. And stop saying that singing isn’t metal. I guess none of you dipshits have ever heard of Iron Maiden, Metallica, or Pantera. The first Black Sabbath album was all screaming. That shit was so metal. Grow up. Get in touch with some history. Now if you don’t like the way we sing or think we do a bad job, that’s fine because singing is very arbitrary and what may sound good to my ears might not sound good to you. I love Megadeth, but some people hate Dave’s voice. I get it. Different strokes for different folks.
I apologize for going off on a rant, but like I said, I really do care. I take internet banter with a grain of salt because I know it’s a lot of young kids with nothing better to do, but I’d rather people connect with what we do. Music is communication, and without the connection, it becomes a hollow existence. I try to exist in a positive atmosphere, and negativity is a cancer. Maybe it’s just an internet thing, but there seems to be an almost nihilistic approach to heavy music recently where people tend to almost hate everything that isn’t noisy garble or something that isn’t obscure enough that more than 5 people have the 7 inch demo. Because of the internet, obscurity is becoming obsolete. Being extreme isn’t going to hold you back anymore. But if that’s your cup of tea, don’t hold it against us for going in a different direction. After all of these years, I feel good about just being able to create and perform on a professional level. When you are a working class musician, you are always one shitty album or one bad business deal from shining shoes for a living, so I take nothing for granted. If you wish failure on another, you may want to look at yourself, and see what that says about your place in life and if that’s how you want to be. Love and respect.
Doc Coyle
Respect.
i’m one of the guys who really hated it when GF started doing clean vocals. not because i don’t like clean vocals, but because the vocals sounded horrible imho. glad to see the hype around GF though, hard working band for sure.
oh, and determination is still awesome:)
Before anyone else goes off on this, I just want to say that that was one of the most well thought out, intelligent, and level-headed critiques I’ve heard in years. Doc, you just hit the nail on the head. Regardless of my tastes in metal, or my interest in God Forbid, you are absolutely right in almost every capacity. I truly wonder if other bands understand their position in the hierarchy as well as you guys do. So long as you guys continue to be constructively critical of your own work, as well as the music scene around you, there should be a place for you. Any artist could stand to gain from taking the same approach to artistic creation as you guys do. Much respect man.
Doc I always knew you were the more sensible one. Hahaha just kidding. A good read. I’m not the world’s biggest Earthsblood fan, but there’s a lot that went into it and I can respect that it’s your band, and not mine. Who gives a fuck what I think you should do with your music? Also, it takes balls just to gamble on this economic catastrofuck with your livelihood at stake. One bad tour and you’re back at your parents’ house. This is real life we’re talking about man.
In short: eat a dick, internet generation. You make me embarrassed to have been born in the time when metal was actually sweet. Having In Flames as your teenage heroes is pitiful compared to listening to “great new bands” like Entombed or Suffocation on your Walkman.
why don’t you blog for metalsucks more often?
this is a very well written response, very intelligent (no disrespect to dallas, dude has balls for some of this shit he’s written)
earthsblood is awesome.
Great post. Good to see another side to God Forbid other than Dallas, and this was much less provocative and instigative and more thoughtful than any of Dallas’ posts, I think.
I do have to contest the use of the word “objective” in regards to reviews though. I think what you’re getting at is that a lot of people, when writing reviews, bring biases or prejudices to the table that really have nothing to do with the music itself, but rather with image or labels or other contextual aspects. And I would agree that the best reviewers are better able to put aside any of these preconceived notions and just look at the music for what it is. It’s something that I particularly respect about the Metalsucks writers (most of the time).
However, in regards to Metalsucks reviewing the album, I still have to maintain that the fact that there is any type of Metalsucks-God Forbid relationship detracts from the credibility of the review. I would venture to say that Metalsucks and God Forbid at this point are at the very least friendly, and who wants to talk shit about the artistic output of a friend or even friendly acquaintance? The writer who comes into a review wanting to like the album not only for himself but for the band as well inherently goes easier on the album. The high points are more exciting, and the low points are more easily forgiven. That doesn’t necessitate “conspiracy” or payoffs or anything like that; it’s just human nature.
I love the new album, for no other reason than it sounds good to my ears…
Wow Doc, great post! Insightful, intelligent and candid. I bought the album last week and listened to it both on the drive up to and the drive from down the mountain when I went snowboarding this weekend. I really like the album. I like the riffs, fills, backing vocals, song structure and lyrics. I’m not a huge fan of the lead vocals, but really dig them when they veer towards a raspy Chuck Billy vibe.
This type of reasoned, rational writing has no place on this metal site for jerkbags. I bid you “good day,” sir.
…
I SAID “GOOD DAY!”
God Forbid is taking the internet criticism way too seriously. First Dallas, now Doc? You’d think they commited some kind of crime by making this album for how much they are defending it.
For every internet hater, they are probably 3x as many people who love the band. Most people only post negative comments anyways so it’s not a reflection of your fan base.
The same shit happens to Trivium everytime they release an album but they just take it in stride and shrug it off. I suggest you quit giving a fuck what the haters say, just play your music and if it’s good, the fans will come!
check out the spread of user ratings. the bulk of it is people giving it 10’s vs. people giving it 1’s. you have to realize that some people really believe the album is a 10. do you really think the detractors think the album is a 1? common, it’s just cause they want to be an internet punk.
*come on (not common)
I really like the new album. You have to remember, the internet kids hate everything other than Slipknot. Keep up the good work Doc.
“check out the spread of user ratings. the bulk of it is people giving it 10’s vs. people giving it 1’s. you have to realize that some people really believe the album is a 10. do you really think the detractors think the album is a 1? common, it’s just cause they want to be an internet punk.”
^^very, very good point
Nice observations by Doc, but I agree with some of the others here; you guys need not worry about detractors so much. Keep doing your damn thing. You know you do it well, and those with some taste do too. All that matters are those people who come to your shows and rock the fuck out. Keep touring, keep putting out quality, heartfelt stuff, and we (any real fans) will keep supporting.
make this a regular blog, Doc
Why hasn’t Doc been writing instead of Dallas?
Good post Doc.
I wouldn’t worry too much about what Blabbermouth reviewers say;they are going to give a 1 to bands they don’t like regardless of the actual album.
Side note: Earthsblood is fucking awesome.
My criticisms were of the review, not the album. The album is solid. I don’t like it as much as Constitution, but it’s solid. The review(and, increasingly, Metalsucks, in general) is where my problem lies. I wish I could have come on here to see an objective review. that simply wasn’t the case. The cock sucking review did not make me want to suddenly shit talk the album or the band though. It’s two entirely separate things. I’m willing to give the band the benefit of the doubt and assume that the metalsucks guys slid GF’s collective cock into their mouth while they weren’t paying attention.
HEY DOC, HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE AN UNCLE?!
CONGRATS AGAIN YOU GUY… ON BOTH THE FAMILY & THE NEW RECORD!
ANY PUBLICITY, GOOD OR BAD, IS GOOD PUBLICITY. WHY MUSIC “FANS” WANT TO SHUT UP THE MUSICIANS, BANDS & ARTISTS IS BEYOND ME. I LIKE IT WHEN BANDS SPEAK UP, SPEAK OUT ABOUT THEIR DISPLEASURES-I JUST WISH MORE OF THEM WERE MORE HONEST, ESPECIALLY ABOUT OTHER BANDS-BUT I GUESS ITS A BUSINESS THING… YOU DON’T WANT TO SH!T WHERE YOU EAT, RITE
BIG FAN-BOUGHT THE sICKNESS & MISERY, IV CONSTITUTION & THE DVD & I WILL DEFINITELY GET MY HANDS ON THIS NEW RECORD!
& CANNIBAL COPRSE KILLLLLSSSS!!!!!
…. OH, & I ALSO GOT ‘GONE FOREVER’ – I DIG ‘EM ALL
i think Earthsblood is a great album dude, respect for those awesome riffs, and keep way of thinking its cool, keep it metal..
This guy blows Dallas out of the water! He is in comparison so well spoken. I actually was a fan of Dallas’s rants, but honestly always hoped they’d sound more like this.
Thumbs up to you, Doc. You got balls, and—in line with the MetalSucks ethos—you’re not afraid to sound smart. I’ll pick up Earthsblood this weekend.
i like the dallas/doc dynamic. it’s like balki bartakamous and cousin larry appleton. it’s nice to see an alternate point-of-view in the band. not that i don’t appreciate dallas always trying to stir shit up, but it’s nice seeing doc’s more articulate, thoughtful musings.
i’m another god-forbid-isn’t-my-cup-of-tea metal fan, but i would still have to give earthsblood at least an 8/10. besides, they killed at the arsis/goatwhore show a few years ago.
new GF is so fucking sickkkk
Doc, THANK YOU for taking all things in consideration on the side of poor shmucks like us.
I’ve gained quite a bit of respect for you guys over this.
I saw God Forbid live a few years back and thought they kicked ass. But their last few albums have been less than impressive (especially Earthsblood).
First of all, this idea that you ‘take chances’ is a bit ridiculous. I’ve listened to Earthsblood enough times to realize it’s not exactly breaking any new metal ground. In fact, many of the songs sound like they were influenced by (to put it nicely – i’d say more like mimic’ed) from other bands or artists. You’ve even said it yourself…’We love many styles of music, and we try to put it all into our music, and don’t say it’s too ambitious either.’ Reading into this statement am I?
Jordan Campbell of metalreview.com even noticed that “Walk Alone” sounds like it came straight from an 80’s song and reminded him of Shadows Fall. I personally was struck particularly when listening to the title track ‘Earthsblood.’ The song’s style doesn’t match the rest of the album much at all. Did God Forbid write this, or did Mikael Akerfeldt? It sounds completely ripped off of Opeth. I don’t just mean the acoustic progressions into heavy blast beats and back. The guitar rhythms, sliding up and down from chord to chord. Specifically at about 5:15 to about 5:40 sounds literally COPIED from an Opeth song. The two or three drum fills at the end of those measures and then the ride used right after sound like Martin Lopez to a T. The guitar part, including the solo again, sound just copied directly. I mean it’s pretty hard to believe that 4 ( team) metal heads in a studio for a long time never realized this? Or maybe that’s what you meant by putting different styles of music into your music.
As for the vocals, I think Campbell said it best…
“The illustrious roster of heavy metal’s iconic vocalists has been recounted numerous times, and it’s safe to say that none of the members of God Forbid will be joining those ranks.” God Forbid’s clean vocals sound nasaly and often off note. I don’t think any metal head would pretend to compare GF vocals to guys like Bruce Dickenson or Rob Halford.
God Forbid is the Nickleback of metal. Just trying to please everyone.
^^^^^^ Ouch.
I haven’t listened to anything God Forbid has released since Determination, and I know all of the GF fans are sick of seeing that, but its true. I had no real reason for this until I read one of the hard r’s. I have no desire to read anything that Dallas writes in blog form or music form. I am not comfortable with giving him any of my money or time. The only reason I am writing this is to tell Doc that I appreciate the intelligent and respectful piece he wrote above. I have met Dallas, and he was a very nice and giving individual, but his rant made me see red, and the fact that I was constantly inundated with Earthsblood this, and Earthsblood that on this very site didn’t help the situation for me. Anyway, Doc I really respect you for what you wrote. Cheers.
@ Phil
Let’s hear your fucking record.
I mean, if you’re going to criticize an album, fine, but if you want to be that in depth about your criticism, you had better be talking from experience. You had better be speaking from equal or greater successes.
Adam, that is the most retarded type of argument every put forth by humankind. Nevermind that, but how does it even make sense to say that it’s only if he goes in depth that he needs to be speaking from experience???? Aren’t in depth opinions the ones that should be promoted instead of just lame ass, musheaded, “it sucks”/”it’s good” bullshit?
I’m not saying that I agree with him, but you’re just lame.
Damn, it’s not often you get people blogging with this much intelligence. I was never really interested in checking God Forbid out at all, but after this blog I might, just because of Doc.
I honestly have never listened to God Forbid, so I have no opinion on the criticism about their music. This was very well written, and thoughtful and for that I give some respect. Maybe I will end up checking them out.
@ Phil
I respect all viewpoints, no matter whether they are the same as mine or not, but calling God Forbid the Nicleback of metal is just wrong..
No one deserves that mantle.
Great album, great bunch of guys!!!! Now as for the “Ripping off” comment…If you listen to tons of metal albums and are a true metalhead…You know that there are a ton of songs that sound the same! There a tons of riffs that sound the same! Some of LOG sounds like Testament…Some Testament sounds like Metallica…some Metallica sounds like Motorhead…c’mon man!
Hahaha, oh man this record gets a lot of shit doesnt it? I mean, I like all forms of metal minus generic breakdown after breakdown metalcore shit. I appreciate what G4B has done, for the past oh 10 or so years they’ve put out music. Look no one can stay doing “Breakdowns” or “GURRRRRRRRGLE GGUUUUUUURGEL BRUTALKVLTAFAFSDFS” style metal for a long period of time. Why bother reading Metalreview.com? I mean come on, it’s 20 year old reviewers who bash you on your musical taste and credibility and argue for 5 hours over which Southern Lord band rules the most. Fuck that site, and it’s legion of idiotic reviewers and posters. Eventhough I am guilty, of liking some of the ways they review cds lol. Granted Earthsblood may not be the most original piece of metal out there. But it’s catchy, and I’ll probably listen to it along with my new Obscura, Darkane, Psyopus, Kylsea, Cannibal Corpse, Napalm Death, Cattle Decapitation, and millions of other Doom and Metal records I’ve been jocking lately. The Metalreview dude who bashed this band was ripping on younger metalheads. It’s music, and just enjoy it for it is before the idiots from Blabbermouth, and Metalreview decide one day that the “metal” scene is dead and go for another stupid trend….
Leave it to the Coyle bros to get a lot of comments!
I too would like to hate on Phil’s comment. It was all bullshit. But Adam saying that you can’t criticize unless you’ve done better yourself? Well, I don’t agree with that at all. After all, was Adam’s comment really better than Phil’s? But I digress.
I do think that all this talkign about Earthsblood, positive or negative, is great for God Forbid. And Doc, your post is even greater for it. I’d love to see your eloquent thoughts on MetalSucks again in the near future.
I’ll start by saying I like God Forbid and am really looking foward to seeing them play before Lamb Of God in New York.
That being said, Why would you let Anonymous internet haters bother you? At this point I think it is pretty safe to say you’ve “made it,” which is a status that will always be synonymous with bashers. The album has gotten good and sometimes very good reviews, isn’t that enough? Now I agree that this was a very well written blog, but to me it all came across as kind of bitchy. That is not to say that Doc or God Forbid is at all bitchy, but honestly who the fuck cares about interwebz users who badmouth your band. Hell, I’m 17 and me and a group of friends from my high school are in a band, and the crazy shit is almost immediately after making a my space and putting songs up a bunch of punk bitches who hate metal and apparently us as individuals put up a facebook group saying our band sucked. Now we are probably never gonna make a dime off music, and we are probably never going to establish a fan base, but hell even we didn’t put up this much of a fuss when those assholes got on the internet and started bashing not only our music, but us personally. I know comparing God Forbid to my shitty high school band sounds really fuckin dumb but I dunno right when i read this it just kind of sprung it to mind haha.
Hmm, you really don’t need to pay much attention to it. Internet is full of people moaning about everything. Keep playing the game your way. That’s all it matters.
New record rocks btw.
Great reading, you certainly hit the nail on the head Doc. I was on the fence about picking up EB but this has definitely shifted my view. HORNS UP!
word. thats why I always wanted the bands I was in to be big enough to tour with a small label or somthing but not to be big enough to deal with the bullshit yall put up with.
nobody on the internet knows shit anyways.
fuck you phil^^^
This blog was really well done and far more intelligent then that crap that Dallas puts out. So why haven’t we seen anything on here about the rumors that Dallas has left the band? He’s a good artist and guitarist, but I wouldn’t blame the rest of the members for kicking him out (nor would I be surprised if he went off and locked himself in his room because the other members told him to stop hurting the band with his blogs).