Here’s the quick fucking breakdown:

Dynamics also mean how a piece is played – Staccato,Legato. I mostly think of things in these terms especially when dealing with drumming.

Triggers play an external source that has very little to do with the actual bass drum, so, YES, I firmly believe that you don’t have to play exactly the same way that you would without them(except for timing). You CAN, BUT you don’t have to…

YES – The wood in a kit, The skill & experience of the drummer & the music being played are all important to the type of microphone being used because it’s not just the category of mic that determines your choice. . Dynamic mics are inferior because they don’t pick up the same range of frequency that Condenser mics do.

Sorry…I don’t have the patience to revisit my sentiments…Maybe later

I do play drums. I have changed my style as i have progressed to increase my efficiency. When i said “why not play as hard as you are used to?” the point i was making is this: Triggers change nothing about how a drum is played, only how it is heard. I think that you are misunderstanding what i meant by hard. I simply meant that there would be no reason to change the velocity that you are comfortable with. It is you that assumes that triggers make it easier to play and thus your style would change. You ask “why make someone work harder if they don’t have to?”. Simple. That is what makes good musicians great. Granted, some people have natural talent, and have a head start. Working harder is how you get to be better than you were the day before.

When it comes down to mics, it more has to do with setting and type of sound you are looking for, and not skill or kit. Condenser mics are great in the studio, in a controlled environment. They especially work well if you mic you beater from half a foot away. You get a great impact from that alone, especially with wood beaters. But in a live setting (which is more than 90% of professional players time) dynamic mics are key. They do not pick up a ton of ambient noise like condensers, and that means less feedback from everything else that is going on. Plus, they are mostly unidirectional and are easier to aim (again, reducing unwanted noise). The reason they are cheaper is because most dynamic mics have less electronic circuitry. Having fewer parts is one of the reasons that dynamic mics are less expensive, not because they are inferior.

I actually have far more experience than you give me credit for. I have spent many hours in studios here and there, and have been playing music my whole life. I think that if you want to bash technology and those who rely upon it, you should first understand that improved bass drum pedals and beaters and deadringers and using different wood and better ply and mesh practice heads and ekits and triggers and sound shells and contoured thrones and inner-ear monitors and everything else that has been used by drummers to improve their sound and ability would then fall into that category. I agree that technology is not a crutch to be leaned on, but you have to understand that it is a part of what we do. You don’t have to take advantage of all of these tools, but you can’t bash on people for using them if they choose to.

I may be off a little in reference to the actually amplification used in a drum module but volume doesn’t equate to dynamics. And, merely not having all the information in my head about all the drum machines made doesn’t make me a troll. You should heed your own advice about magazines & forums and actually pick up a dictionary while you’re at it.

I’m guessing you don’t actually play drums, do you? You speak of dynamics,yet, you ask such stupid fucking questions like: “So why not play as hard as you are used to?” It’s simple, on a manufacturing level, Bass drum pedal design has improved in order to make bass drumming not only easier but with new styled beaters that get better sound. On a drumming level, as you actually gain knowledge & experience, you change your style of playing to be more efficient & accurate ( a more proper way) which results in dynamic drumming. Have you heard of “4-Way Independence” ?
Finally & unfortnately, Drumming can cause a multitude of skeletal issues, like Tendinitis & Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, so why make someone work harder if they don’t have to,thus, my NOT including triggers into the whole reliance on technology rant.
Though, anyone can use technology the wrong way and be completely reliant on all aspects to produce a product with no integrity,BUT, I thought we were both Musicians. So, I didn’t think I needed to explain the basics.

As for the Condenser mics Vs. Dynamic mics argument, yes you are correct, most people do make the MISTAKE of buying the LDM Dynamic mics for the bass drum,again, usually because they are cheaper & because you don’t have to do much soundboard work to get them to sound half way decent. But, if you really want to accurately capture the quality tone of the wood, after using the proper tuning & deadringing techniques, and not have the muffling of the notes then you would use an LDM condenser mic. Of course it’s all dependent on the music being played, the skill of the drummer & what kind of kit being used. But, I’m a troll… What do I know?

What I do know is that I only need to talk to you to find out what most cheap & inexperienced wannabes think are standards within the music community. So, do yourself a favor and go hang out at an actual studio where you can learn what’s real instead of what you’re being taught on these websites…Troll.

Fact: Drum Modules do play pre assigned MIDI samples. Just like a keyboard. That is correct.

Fact: Dynamic range CAN be used to play totally different sets of samples. Also, not every module or trigger has dynamic ability. The ones that do can ALSO be used to play the same sample with a relative volume based on the power of the strike.

Fact: Your idea of not having to work as hard is flawed. What i was showing you is that most drummers that play double-bass heavy parts had to learn on an acoustic kit first, before moving to triggers. What this means is that you are used to playing full strength. Any drummer can tell you that drumming well is a mixture of muscle memory and stamina. So why not play as hard as you are used to?

Fact: Cutting a hole in the head of your drum is for allowing air to pass for a shorter thud sound and less resonance. You can also use this hole to mic your drums. Dynamic mics work better for bass drums than condenser mics (which i am sure that you knew. easy mistake). Also, blankets and pillows are what people use before they spend tons of money on extra padding and dampeners. Tuning your heads is what gives you a specific tone. Two perfectly tuned bass drum heads will still create a resonance that is undesirable to most drummers. That is why they use padding like pillows or blankets or deadringers.

Fact: Having a discussion about triggers and then saying that you dislike a total reliance on technology used in music leads me to believe that you meant triggers. Forgive me if you were actually talking about every other technological advance in music production and recording, and not triggers.

Do yourself a favor. Go lurk on some drum forums and learn something.

FACT: You don’t know how to fucking read!
FACT: Drum Modules/Machines play pre-assigned MIDI SAMPLES like a fucking keyboard.
FACT: If the module uses Dynamic Range it has to have sets of samples each pre-assigned to that volume range – F.Y.I. – Most drummers don’t load all those samples.
FACT: When I said “Not having to work as hard”,I didn’t mean a beginner drummer…douchebag
FACT: A hole in front bass drum head is used for a condenser mic & any jackass putting blankets or pillows in their bass drum doesn’t have a fucking clue on how to use the proper tuning, deadringers or heads.
FACT: I was merely stating that I don’t like a totally reliance on technology to make music…I DID NOT say that triggers are a total reliance – Again, Learn how to read!!

Finally, I don’t care what kind of punctuation you use after this sentiment: Go Fuck Yourself

First, you have to understand what i meant by “cleaning up” a sound. I do not mean that it takes you output, processes it, and spits it back out. What cleaning up the sound means is simply this: when you play any drum, the noise that you want to hear is the initial hit, not the follow up reverberations. that is why so many drummers have cut holes into their drum heads, filled their drums with blankets or pillows, etc. Most drummers are looking for a dull, low, thud. Here is where the cleaning up part comes in. The module plays a single bass note, short, low, sweet, and uniform (unless of course, you set it to do otherwise). This makes each note clean, and easy to hear. Hence, cleaning up the sound.

Secondly, drummers play just as hard with triggers as they do with real drums. Why? “How could he know this?” you ask. Easy. No one who plays drums (with very little exception) starts out with triggers. Most drummers begin with a cheap kit that their parents buy them, or one that they saved up to buy. You have to learn how to crawl before you can walk. Because triggers actually have no effect on how you play, and are simply used for amplification and definition of sound, they do not come standard on drum sets. Think of it in terms of guitar gear. Do you know any guitar player whose first setup was a full on, profession touring rig? Not just a half stack and a head… i mean two full stacks, pre-amps, custom guitars, wireless receivers, pedalboards, and a guitar tech? You shouldn’t. Because that is stupid. That kind of gear is meant to do two things 1. Perfect your live sound 2. Perfect your studio sound. Giving anyone better gear might make them SOUND better in general, but all it will be is really good sounding GARBAGE.

Lastly, you do have to work hard. You do have to practice. You do have to build stamina. You will still get tendonitis. You will still have to spend money on good drums. Then you will have to spend extra money on triggers and modules and amplification. You don’t have to be a good drummer to use triggers, but then again, you don’t have to be a good drummer to own expensive drums. Shit, if you follow that logic, you don’t have to be a good drummer to be famous for being a drummer. Now, is it the trigger’s fault that some shitty drummers use them? No. Is it technology’s fault that it has become more available and less expensive? No. Is it that crap-drummer-who-plays-in-whatever-band’s fault that he wants to emulate professional sound and famous drummers when he plays? Well, yeah, but you can’t blame him. He just wants to sound good.

Think logically, and it all begins to make sense. To much vibration = unclear notes. Triggers = clear notes. Good drummer with triggers or without triggers = good drummer. Bad drummer with triggers or without triggers = bad drummer.

You have said one thing that i agree with, and implied one thing that i agree with. First, yes, you can trigger any drum. You then said that you can play bass notes from your floor tom, which implies that you think this is cheating. I 100% agree. triggers should be used to amplify the sound you would naturally make, and not to add a loop-hole to make insane double bass parts easier. That i agree with.

But other than that, you’re still wrong
p.s. if if add a smiley face this time, do you think that the joke i made by stating that i respect your opinion and then immediately saying that you are wrong will make more sense? maybe. so just in case. :)

Secondly, (and this is the reason why I talked about Edrums) unfortunately, triggers are not pressure sensitive, which means that even though they sense when the drum is hit(vibration), no matter how soft or hard you hit them that doesn’t change the volume of the sample being played. You don’t have to work as hard to get the same sound every time. Sure, you can’t be sloppy with your timing but you also don’t have to get tendinitis in your knees from keeping up the pace & force it would take on the actual bass drum.

Finally, I don’t hate any advancement in technology especially in Music but, what I find, is that Triggers are only essential in (a.)a live setting where you have a shitty soundboard/guy,(b.) if you can’t afford more/better equipment , (c.) if you think using a double bass pedal is the same as using two bass drums. [refer to (b.)].AND if you don’t have bass drumming skill. Personally, I don’t like the sound when someone only uses triggers on the bass drum because mic’ed drums & triggered samples don’t blend well on a recording(that’s my opinion)…BUT, What I am against is the total reliance on technology instead of skill & an appreciation for the art to make your music sound better. Playing a trigger isn’t playing that nice birch wood that you paid for…You might as well use an electric kit.

Oh & BTW…just because you say things like “As a matter of fact ” & end your response by calling me wrong doesn’t prove anything. You need to show facts in your response to prove me wrong…

Good Day to you Sir:)

But seriously, dude, you’re wrong.

so i checked out some more on youtube…unfortunately, its the same ride with every song (minus the frame story i guess). and… the drum production is terrible. i dont know much about triggers (so thanks for the lesson, you two douchebags), but it sounds really weightless– i presume because its corrected so that every hit is of equal weight. sad but not fatal. final verdict: id be excited to see them at a cheap bar show, but they are pretty generic in the cultural sphere.

jon, the long haired patched denim vest guys are called pagans, and they probably know how to kill you without consequences.

brandon cook.

p.s. b.o.o. is an amazing progressive tech band, and fuck all of your pussy bands.

by the way you know i am right so don’t even bother making a fool out of yourselves trying to snap at me with your low remarks and comments

fuck all you assholes,
CJ

Metal sucks.

Now, about Gene in Death: Read the fucking liner notes in the Symbolic CD booklet (if you have it). He names the damn brand of the triggers he uses and everything. lol. Very observant of you and everyone who seemed to miss that one. Anyway, you’ve clearly run out of steam with all your… I don’t know; “integrity,” or whatever the fuck you want to call it. lol. It’s been fun but you’ve become boring now. You seem like the type of guy to pull a sucker punch, so I’ll go ahead and turn my back to this conversation. After all, you don’t have a single decent response for even 1/4 of what I’ve written above, so… you may want to reconsider who you’re asking looks like a dumb fuck, broski. You may think it’s me and not you, but let’s remember that your opinion doesn’t amount to a single thing. That being said, I DO admire your air of self-importance! Somehow, you’ve managed to read our entire exchange and allow yourself to believe everyone else is going to read it all and say, “you know… this sYgnal guy… he’s alright! He knows exactly what he’s talking about! Boy, he sure is making this other guy look like a dumbass! Wow, look at him go!” Truly, your ignorance is astonishing.

Anyway, go ahead and have at it… you can say whatever the fuck you want to say to feel like you’re the king from this point forward! Everyone who reads what you write after this is SURE to be absolutely awestricken by your brilliance, which I will appear to have been completely and utterly shut down by due to my lack of response, so… have a field day, my friend! If it helps you feel any more important in life, by all means… have at it! Actually, you don’t even have to, because I’m the one somehow making myself look like a dumb fuck, right? You just keep on telling yourself that, okay? Make sure to have mommy read you a story before bedtime, too, okay? Aww. =(

-Stephen