#12: TOOL – LATERALUS
Friday, June 19th, 2009 at 4:00pm by Vince Neilstein
We recently polled a wide array of musicians, managers, publicists, label reps, and writers from within the world of metal to find out what they thought the 21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century So Far have been. Eligible albums were released between January 1, 2000 and April 1, 2009. Each panelist turned in a ballot, with their #1 album worth 21 points, their #2 album worth 20 points, and so on and so forth. The ballots are now in and we’ll be counting down one album a day until we reach #1. Today we present the #12 album, coming in with a total of 139 points…
Tool, Lateralus (Volcano Records, 2001)
Maynard James Keenan – Vocals
Adam Jones – Guitars
Justin Chancellor – Bass
Danny Carey – Drums
Produced by David Bottrill and Tool
I’m sitting in my living room with my B&W speakers cranked through my Krell stereo, listening attentively in complete darkness. I’m STONED. Half a song in and Tool’s Lateralus is every bit as great as I remember it being; dark, rich, lush, creepy, challenging, accessible; Adam Jones’ buttery smooth yet razor-sharp crunchy guitar of “The Grudge” cuts through my chest. Justin Chancellor’s groovy bass-slapping locks in with Dan Carey’s rhythmic, guttural pounding… they all come together in a furious sonic whirlwhind, and then there’s Maynard’s voice letting out a gut-wrenching, soul-destroying, 15-second long scream. Chaos unfolds by the second, yet it’s completely calculated and organized chaos, wrapping together into a neat, pounding, CRUSHING riff that twists your soul and body with every unexpected turn of the music, then it locks into one final chaotic coda and it ends. Is there one more turnaround? Nope. But there’s more madness around the corner. TOOL, motherfuckers, TOOL!
Intellectual and brute all at once, Lateralus is rewarding in every possible way. Aenima had some fantastic songs, but it didn’t have this level of complexity, this level of musical development, this level of Tool finding themselves and their true style, of having a vision and executing it perfectly. Lateralus is the delicate balance struck between a band in their stride and one that hasn’t yet become too comfortable with themselves. It represents the cross from post-grunge/hard-rock/metal into full on art and prog-rock in the band’s career arc, and as such it’s their best record; aren’t those crossing-over records of self-discovery always a band’s best?
Just as Lateralus is the flagship vessel of Tool’s career, it’s the best production and mixing work of David Bottrill’s otherwise somewhat workingman career (Ultraspank, Mudvayne, Godsmack, Staind, etc). New sounds, noises, instruments, swells, bibs and bobs ooze out of every orifice of this record; layers and layers of aural goodness unfold like an onion. There’s not a moment of silence, yet nothing’s so chaotic that every crevice of every sound isn’t perfectly audible and purposeful. This record is so full of nuance it’s ridiculous; it’s like looking through a microscope at something for the first time and being transfixed and fascinated, then switching to a microscope 10x more powerful and being astonished yet again. Repeat. The attention to detail is immaculate! Everything compliments everything else in a perfect, fragile balance of taste.
Content with just pummeling your soul into submission with pure heaviness? Never. Tool do it with subtlety, mood, intense emotion and feeling. To wit, almost half the tracks on this record are ambient or instrumental, complete with the use of Maynard’s voice as an instrument instead of a vehicle to deliver lyrics. These tracks are the perfect breaks between the torrential downpours of furious riffs that assault the senses with every proper “song” on the record. The pacing is perfect; so perfect that Lateralus takes up all but two seconds of the 79-minute capacity of the compact disc.
When the building instrumental section in the middle of “Schism” comes to the epic peak of its monumental build, GOOSEBUMPS! Though Tool’s music is unabashedly intellectual and heady it’s not alienating to those who might not “get” that element of it. That a near-7-minute long song with a betcha-can’t-count-THIS-one whacky time-signature was and still is a rock radio staple speaks to the visceral nature by which people connect with Tool’s music. By all accounts, Lateralus is way too musically complex to be completely understood by everyone who loves it, so clearly there must be something else happening here too.
The audio candy continues, but it’s audio candy with a greater purpose beyond just the sugary deliciousness of it; on Lateralus, Tool figured out how to mix their arty-prog tendencies with their knack for writing fucking great songs, and it’s done through the players’ strengths as writers, not showmen. Jones’ soaring but simple lead guitar of “Parabola” is as fine an example as any, as is the triumphant riffed chorus of “Ticks and Leaches.” Jim Chancellor delivered a doozy on his first record with the band with his distinct, hooky basslines throughout, whether alone or complementing the rest of the band. Maynard bares his soul into the microphone with his finest, most varied vocal performance to date; wails, barks, shout, sings, and gut-wrenching screams in infinitely variable measures. But Lateralus is in many ways the Dan Carey show; Carey’s astonishing performance, well, pretty much fucking EVERYWHERE on this record is positively mesmerizing throughout. There are more “lead drums” on this record than lead anything else, including vocals. Even when Carey is laying in the background he’s still drawing the attention, from tribal drum patterns to straight up head-bangers. Carey’s performance on Lateralus might well be the drum performance of the Century.
If the album could be summed up in one track, it’d fittingly be the title track, buried at number 9 of 13. With it’s unassuming intro, bubbling, building, then bursting into a monstrous riff that in and of itself is worthy of naming the whole album after — it’s the quintessential Tool song. The tom-tom pattering verses, in their out-of-synch time signature from Maynard’s whispered croon and Jones’ polyryhthmic chugs, it all comes together in a sudden but somehow completely natural turnaround. It’s a modern classic, a 10 minute epic with myriad parts that turn around from one to the next seemlessly, finished off by Chancellor’s slidey bass thing (I know you know what I’m talking about!) juxtaposed with Carey’s straight-forward 1-2 beat… these are the orgasmic moments I live for.
By god this is a fucking ALBUM, start to finish, with a beginning a middle and an end. Wherever it is that Jones, Chancellor, Carey and Keenan were when they penned this dark, chaotic, crazy piece of music, it takes you there. It takes me there, anyway. And hopefully this writeup has done that for you.
-VN
Order Lateralus from Amazon!
THE LIST SO FAR:
#13 – Mastodon, Blood Mountain
#14 – System of a Down, Toxicity
#15 – Nachtmystium, Assassins: Black Meddle, Part 1
#16 – Machine Head, The Blackening
#18 – Lamb of God, New American Gospel
#20 – Shadows Fall, The War Within
#21 – Slipknot, Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses
THE PANEL OF VOTERS
Chris Adler, Lamb of God
Dan And, Bison B.C.
Ben Apatoff, Apatoff for Destruction/Metal Injection
Jason Bittner, Shadows Fall
Tim Brennan, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
Freddy Cai, Painkiller Magazine
Ian Christe, Bazillion Points
Reverend David J. Ciancio, Yeah! Management
Betsey Cichoracki, Relapse Records
Paul Conroy, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
J. Costa, Thy Will Be Done
Dallas Coyle, ex-God Forbid/Coyle Media
Doc Coyle, God Forbid
CT, Rwake
Anso DF, MetalSucks/Hipsters Out of Metal!
Vince Edwards, Metal Blade Records
Charles Elliott, Abysmal Dawn/Nuclear Blast Records
Brian Fair, Shadows Fall
Leo Ferrante, Warner Music Group
D.X. Ferris, author 33 1/3: Reign in Blood/Freelance Journalist
Mike Gitter, Roadrunner Records
Nick Green, Decibel
Matt Grenier, August Burns Red
Anthony Guzzardo, Earache Records
Kevin Hufnagel, Dysrhythmia
Mark Hunter, Chimaira
Steve Joh, Century Media
EJ Johantgen, Prosthetic Records
Kim Kelly, Metal Injection/Hails & Horns/Freelance Journalist
Josh “The J” Key, Psychostick
Jason Lekberg, Epic Records
Eyal Levi, Daath
Bob Lugowe, Relapse Records
Matt McChesney, The Autumn Offering
Jake McReynolds, Psychostick
Marc Meltzer, The Syndicate
Josh Middleton, Sylosis
Matt Moore, Rumpelstiltskin Grinder
Vince Neilstein, MetalSucks
Sammy O’Hagar, MetalSucks
Anton OyVey, MetalSucks/Bacon Jew
Rob Pasbani, Metal Injection
Alex Preiss, Psychostick
Carlos Ramirez, NoiseCreep/Universal Music Group
Brian Rocha, Fresno Media USA
Jeremy Rosen, Roadrunner Records
Axl Rosenberg, MetalSucks
Satan Rosenbloom, MetalSucks/Cerebral Metalhead
David Bee Roth, MetalSucks
Jason Rudolph, Heavy Hitter, Inc.
Amy Sciarretto, Roadrunner Records/NoiseCreep
Carl Severson, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
Gary Suarez, MetalSucks/No Yoko No/Brainwashed
Geoff Summers, The End Records/Crustcake
Bram Teitelman, The Syndicate/Metal Insider
Alisha Turull, Heavy Hitter, Inc.
Christopher R. Weingarten, 1000TimesYes/Freelance Journalist
I approve of this pick. But is it REALLY Metal?
SHIT’S ABOUT TO RAIN DOWN LIKE SKITTLES!
I called it last night…10,000 days better be here somewhere
Uglymicrowave,
10,000 Days should be nowhere on this list.
In before 300+ replies in regards to the genre Tool falls under.
I say fuck genres, Tool is the BEST band there is, their 2nd best album, don’t see 10,000 days doing better than this and their other 2 albums were in the 90s
Fuck genres? This is a list about a genre. Contents should be about said genre!
if the panel werent divided on whether or not tool is really metal, this album would be #1.
Oh lord is every one of these threads going to start with a “is this metal” argument? I think by now we have established that we all have different ideas of what metal is, probably one of the reasons it is so great. Nobody can lay down a check list that determines whether something is metal or not, so let’s deal with it and have a good discussion :)
Personally, I like this album quite a bit…although contrary to what most people say, this album actually grew away from me the more I listened to it, until I was kind of tired of it. It definitely took me a few years to get to that point though, but the more timeless albums tend to intrigue me no matter how many times I have heard them. Anyway, I think it deserves a spot somewhere on this list, so why not #12.
The list is called ‘The 21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century’. If it were called ‘The 21 Best Albums of the 21st Century,’ I’d have no problem with this pick. It’s not my favorite of theirs, but it’s the best thing they’ve done this decade.
Here’s my biggest problem: How many great METAL albums will be left off of this list, so alternative / heavy rock bands like Tool could be on it? Nowadays, they’re closer to Pink Floyd than they are to metal.
“Here’s my biggest problem: How many great METAL albums will be left off of this list, so alternative / heavy rock bands like Tool could be on it?”
I saw anywhere between 12 and 15.
And yet another person who only concentrates on this stupid genre bullshit.
Alright Lord Bling I am calling you out…Definition of metal written down, go for it
“stupid genre bullshit”
Normally, I’d agree with you, but this is a METAL list. Do you not see it? It’s right at the top. “21 Best METAL Albums of the 21st Century (So Far).” And I’m not falling into your ‘define what is metal’ trap, cuz that’s some shit that a girlfriend would pull (“does this dress make me look fat?” “No dear, the fat makes you look fat! HAHAHA”).
In this commenter’s opinion, Tool is a great band, but they should not be on this list. Feel free to ignore my opinion, or to get your panties in an enormous wad.
Good god, “define what is metal trap”? Its pretty straight forward…You are obviously defining “metal” in your head when you say “The list is called ‘The 21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century’. If it were called ‘The 21 Best Albums of the 21st Century,”
It was a straight forward question, and you cannot answer it, so I don’t get your disagreement with the pick. My panties are doing just fine, yours just seem to be confused.
Tool is a metal band they might not be br00tal but they are metal.
A band doesn’t have to be extreme to be metal.
You really have no clue of what the meaning of METAL is.
Try and not be so close minded.
Death metal isn’t they only kind of metal man.
Pretty fucking obvious.But it seems like you don’t get that.
FYI Behemoth nor Nile deserve to be on this list.
FREE YOUR MIND!!
lol
All of a sudden, I feel like taking back my earlier comment about SOAD not being metal. I like Tool, but give me a fucking break. They do not belong on this list. Since when did this site turn into “120 Minutes?”
DIDN’T SEE A REPLY LIKE THIS COMING
It’s a valid question. If albums like Behemoth’s ‘Demigod’ or Nile’s ‘Annihilation of the Wicked’ are left off of the list so Tool could be on it, then there’s a serious problem with the people choosing the list. Do you disagree?
Implying Behemoth or Nile have ever made a good album. Good joke man.
I was gonna say ‘Obvious troll is obvious,’ but then I saw your user name, and was amazed at the irony on top of irony.
Obviously obvious troll is obviously obvious?
Well, he has a point. Behemoth is awful, and the only decent Nile album is Annihilation, and even so, it’s nowhere near deserving of being on a best-of list.
Behemoth and Nile are cool for what they are, but neither has made a top 20 metal album.
Well, I don’t see anyone else stepping up and naming some metal albums that they think deserve to be on this list…..
skyclad – folkémon
Ahab – Call of the Wretched Sea
are you seriously talking shit on behemoth????? thats almost a sin. demigod should be somewhere in the top 5 for sure.
Agreed. Much like people saying after Load/Reload that you-know-who should have changed their name to Alternica, it’s time to change the URL, MS monkeys. Bring on the METAL.
I love tool as much as the next guy but come on.
Sorry guys, not every band has to be as “Metal” as slayer. Some people like a metal album with, dare I say it, DYNAMICS!
oh snap!
Do you come to this site to read about bands like Tool or System of a Down? I don’t. I have plenty of other sites I can go to for that. I guess I’m just disappointed.
This site has me bitching about bands I love. Not healthy.
lord bling knows whats up
and i dont mean that sarcastically, you hit the nail on the head
Thanks. But it’s not like I’ll stop coming to this site, at least as long as Hollywood Undead doesn’t make this list!
This list is all about the comments. I don’t really care much anymore about who makes what spot. I know it’s already going down the drain but it’s quite the laugh.
Viridian, this is probably the most spot-on comment on this entire board. It HAS been a good laugh, and a month from now, it’ll be the only thing we remember about this list.
Agreed. This has been pretty funny.
You’ve never actually listened to a good metal album, have you? The good ones have dynamics.
Here you go again, being the god of what is and what is not metal
Once again, Ziltoid….calling you out, definition of metal written down, go
Where did I criticize Shiggy Shack abut what is or isn’t metal? I just told him/her that good metal albums with dynamics.
*have dynamics
The dudes in the Metalsucks mansion are now involved in a furious bout of group masturbation as they read this review.
Please don’t tell anyone how we live…
I figured this whole list was just massive flame baits for moments like the one David mentioned.
3 Dave’s in a row, go fuck yourself, internet.
Also, like Tool, Kinda debatable on ‘METAAOOOL’, but enh.
Tool isn’t my favorite band but how are they not metal? They don’t sing about Satan enough or drink enough moonshine for you? Just listen to the fucking time signatures on any song and you try to fucking play it and make a better album and then come back and bitch about it.
That being said….10,000 Days was a better album.
Jazz also has crazy time signatures. Therefore, your argument is invalid.
FYI Lord Bling good metal drummers usually have a deep love for jazz.
Also they usually play jazz to improve their chops
jazz drumming is very metal
This is very true. Sean Reinert is another great example.
Gar Samuelson was a jazz drummer before he played on the best Megadeth albums.
check out Captain Beyond, Rush, Battles, any one of a billion other skilled musicians that make extensive use of uncommon time signatures, no metal involved.
No, 10,000 days was not the better album. I love Tool, but I don’t see them eclipsing this high-water mark for a long time, if ever.
every good metal musician ends up in jazz
:-)
Not a bad band, but not metal at all. The idiots that voted on this need to get out of the music industry.
Here’s an idea Ziltoid. Why don’t you get INTO the music industry so you can have an impact on meaningful lists such as this. Metal Injection is currently accepting interns.
Why join a sinking ship? The music industry is already going down. Just look at respectable labels like SPV.
And I highly doubt that this list qualifies as “meaningful.” But being an intern at Metal Injection would be a great way for me to become important in the world.
the music industry isnt going to disappear, idiot. people love music! but its corporate structure is collapsing, which means its a perfect time for you to find a market for your creative ideas. i expect you to have signed at least one band to your new 21st century label before you come back here.
join the sinking ship you will never be important in the world anyway
QFM (quoted for metal)
He is currently WAY too busy for interning between trolling here and his job a Cinnabun…just not enough hours in the day.
Whoa Whoa Whoa, Dane Cook, stop being so funny.
Why does that sound so familiar? Oh right, because I called you Dane when you tried to make a shitty joke in the SOAD post.
lol, sorry for stealing the joke, but it’s a good one.
ziltoid, you are the essence of an overtly cynical whiny forums faggot
More homophobia in the metal community! Rob Halford would be proud!
hi. im ziltoid. im a fag. i chase trivial battles on the internet, but when a girl walks within 2 feet of me, i sweat out my ass. and my huart rate hits the roof. thank you.
You’re so clever, ziltoid2!
You stole his joke and paraded it for him to see? You’re dead to me now. That’s too low.
Well, at least I’m not as bad as Carlos Mencia.
I dont think I have ever heard anyone call someone a faggit and mean the literal sense of the word. All it means is that your BEING A FAGGIT, I would never call a homosexual person a faggit, unless they were being a faggit.
“FAGGIT?” You are definitely that guy from Waking the Cadaver.
Would you call someone a faggot? Because ‘faggit’ isn’t actually a word.
Hahahahaha. It is that guy. Hhahahahahahaha. Waking the Cadaver hahahahahaha. I call it ‘grade 3 core’
I spell it how I say it.
ziltoid dont turn the conversation from the fact that your arguments on here are retarted.
And I have never felt so insulted as being called the guy from waking the cadaver, and I am being dead serious, like really you can call me anything you want, please not that guy though. low blow
You spell it like that because you are stupid. That is all. Go get a GED or something you uneducated fool.
Wow… you know you suck at trolling when the other trolls turn on you.
Actually, I guess that’s not a surprise, seeing as ihateyou hates everyone.
“ziltoid dont turn the conversation from the fact that your arguments on here are retarted.”
“Retarded” is how you spell the word, fyi. The spell check underlines the damn word, so no excuses.
“And I have never felt so insulted as being called the guy from waking the cadaver, and I am being dead serious, like really you can call me anything you want, please not that guy though. low blow”
XD, I seriously laughed at that.
What is your standard for what metal is? And how do Tool fail that standard in “Lateralus”?
Great question. Note the lack of responses, because no one can come up with a good one.
I knew that I would find this post as soon as I saw the posted article. I MUST BE A PSYCHIC.
Seriously, Ziltoid, you seem like a decent fellow, but you’re a genre Nazi. Your definition of metal is so narrow, man. Not all metal fits neatly into a subgenre.
But it does. All metal does fit into a subgenre. That’s the best part of it. Find a band, I’ll give a subgenre, or you can just look here: http://metal-archives.com/
For the most part, that site is pretty accurate (Although they were dumb enough to get rid of PtH and BtBaM).
Maybe that’s the problem… people try too hard to shoehorn bands into a subgenre. I mean, there are plenty of metal bands that fall into multiple subgenres, or release albums that fall into different subgenres.
I mean, Opeth (who no one can deny is metal) frequently have a lot of acoustic passages and even released an acoustic album. Finntroll released an entirely acoustic album. Ulver is all over the map. Agalloch has… well, you get the idea.
Metal goes outside the box and can blur the lines of genres, and sometimes it defies description. To me, that’s when it’s at its best.
groverXIII, the bands you named all have released at least one unquestionably ‘metal’ album. I wouldn’t say the same for Tool.
Seeing as most of the sources on the internet that I can find classify Tool as progressive metal, there are plenty of people who would say the same for Tool. Of course, their older stuff is heavier, but they’ve always had a different sound to their music. That’s what makes them unique. It doesn’t make them any less metal.
Okay, that’s a valid point. To that point … if Faith No More had an album out this decade, and it made this list, would we see a similar debate? Or did we already see that debate with Toxicity a couple of days ago?
I think the ‘genre’ debate is just as valid as the question of whether or not this album belongs on the list in the first place.
An interesting point about Faith No More… I guess now that I think about it, I’ve always considered them more rock than metal, but then again, they’re all over the map, style-wise, so it’s tough to really put them in any single genre.
Then again, FNM hasn’t really released any predominantly metal albums, have they? I think ‘The Real Thing’ is probably the closest thing they’ve done to metal, but again, they change styles so drastically that they’re hard to qualify.
I’d say ‘King for a Day’ was their closest to ‘metal’, but ‘Album of the Year’ has its heavy moments. But yeah, they don’t really have one album that can be called ‘metal’. I don’t know; I just thought of FNM and thought it would be an interesting question. Probably didn’t help the debate any, but it’s not like anything is being ’solved’ here anyway! :)
Yeah, the biologist comment was funny. However, I’d like to state that the ‘debate’ began when the list was named ‘21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century.’ Otherwise, I’d just be debating whether or not this album was good enough to be on the list.
Heh… it’s certainly not being solved, but FNM indeed presents an excellent question, and certainly falls in line with my train of thought.
Ummm…Usually people call the bands that push the envelope or blur the lines, “Prog”. So, that is your sub-genre for bands like Tool. BUT, unfortunately, the Swedish think “Prog” means any crappy Heavy Metal band with a fucking keyboard.
Personally, I think TooL should be on here but not for this hippy shit. AEnima was a far superior release. I mean, honestly, if people are going to cut up Dream Theater for their wankery then TooL should get advanced notice about becoming a fucking tree-hugging jam band. If you have to take drugs to enjoy the music then that means the music fucking sucks!!
Did all of those sub-genres exist before the bands? How do your sub-genres come into existence if everybody fits neatly into the predefined label? By your own logic, anyone who comes up with a new sound must not be metal since it doesn’t fit a pre-existing genre. And by extension, none of the bands that invented the sub-genres can be metal since, at their own time, those genres didn’t exist. You really ought to just enjoy music as music and let go if the need for labeling. If it means that much to you, go to school and become a biologist.
The biologist comment made me snort water out of my nose.
I agree- Is Tool not metal because they don’t fit an established sub-genre of metal? They’re sure as hell heavier than Sabbath.
logananarchy, the different time frames for Sabbath and Tool are a big reason why I don’t agree with your logic. Sabbath was the heaviest band of their time, but now, most alt-rock is heavier. That’s not to say most alt-rock is better … hell, I just had Sabotage going a couple of hours ago! But saying a band is heavier than Sabbath doesn’t mean what it would’ve meant 30 years ago.
Great Fucking Point! The first time anyone has ever,possibly, changed my opinion about categorization of music. Except for the fact that as people grew smarter, we needed a way to efficiently explain most things. But, of course, this is all based on listening experience & the fact that the article is entitled,”21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century”. So, if you have such a problem with labeling things then maybe you should drop out of school and become homeless,no offense. But, that’s what most of the world is about…Labels,billets,titles,categories,etc…
Death’s later albums completely defy categorization into a sub-genre. Individual Thought Patterns through Sound of Perseverance are just excellent metal. They’re not death metal at all, as some claim. I challenge anyone to come up with a genre tag for late-period Death other than just “metal” that actually exists i.e. there are other bands that also clearly fit into the same category.
all of you should read this article.
http://headbangersblog.mtv.com/2008/01/17/guest-blog-the-ocean-peel-off-the-labels-and-try-to-figure-out-just-what-the-hell-they-are/
After reading that, I was expecting to hear a band that was truly original. I think they need to stop smoking Marijuana or go and listen to the new Cynic album to get some perspective. Personally, i think “Shitty Metalcore” would work as a genre,label,etc…
no they are not the greatest band ever, but their front man is pretty intelligent and i think he brings up a few points most of the people arguing about genres should consider
They tried to name their own genre. That’s like being born as a white guy and saying, “hey look, I’m a palecore person.” When people are born, they are categorized objectively into races automatically. The same can be said for metal bands. They can call themselves whatever they want. but they’re probably not going to be correct.
I will ALWAYS back anyone who gives shout outs to Cynic. ‘Traced in Air’ should be on this list, at or near the top. But it won’t be.
Indeed, Traced in Air should at least be top 3. By far the best album of 2008.
Great write-up, Vince. I couldn’t agree more. I had a feeling this album might be next after the clue you dropped yesterday…
Def. Tool’s best album, and one of (if not *the*) best concerts I’ve ever seen when they were touring behind it.
I agree…especially with the best album sentiment. This truly is an album…there is an arc in theme and the track sequencing is damn near perfect… this coming from someone who is not a big TOOL fan.
As for calling out the people that voted on this list, I have disliked about 80% of the albums listed but still give the people who voted more credibility than most of you basement-dwelling dorks.
I’m a front porch-dwelling dork.
No basements in Florida.
Can’t we be cave-dwelling dorks from a Norwegian mountain? Anything else would be an insult to true metal, and since this is allegedly METAL list, we must be in a METAL place. Duh…
Like grandma’s computer room?
To everyone saying Tool is not metal enough to be on this list. Remember this comprised of votes by the panel of industry professionals. Clearly there were enough people on that list that consider Tool a metal band in some respect. If you don’t like it, bring it up with them. MS doesn’t have any say in what they picked.
So if they all voted for Britney Spears, she would automatically be metal because they said so? People are fallible. And stupid. This list falls into the category of stupidity.
It’s stupid, that’s why these posts are all filled with YOUR comments at all times of the day. You apparently have the time, so why don’t you start your own site. schmuck.
This is the 4th day I’ve ever posted here. Is there anything wrong with having a bit of free time once in awhile? Also, most metal sites are awful, pretentious, and simply bad at whatever they try to do. At least this one has some humorous bits rather often that make it worth visiting.
awful, pretentious and simply bad…seems to fit perfectly with your taste in music.
And what do you like? Crazy cool stuff like Born of Osiris?
OK, look. I’ve been reading all the different entries on this list on and off over the last 2 days, and I keep seeing your name come up, and it’s almost always related to whether something is or isn’t metal. While on a personal level I don’t really care if something is metal or not, I can sort of understand the need to quantify what is or isn’t metal, since this is a list of best METAL albums.
Still (and maybe I missed something you said, as I didn’t read every post), I don’t think you ever established what makes something metal. Someone else asked you this question, and your reply was a list of the various bands and subgenres that make up metal; however, you said what links all these bands together as metal, which would seem to be important since some the bands were quite different from each other.
Is metal like pornography, where you can”t say exactly what it is, but you know it when you see (or, in this case, hear) it? Or is it like classifying animals, where certain traits are always present, no matter what (like the fact that mammals all give birth to their young, rather than laying eggs)?
I know this sounds stupid, but I’m curious for a more exact definition here.
Haha, it’s actually like both porn and animals. It’s porn in the sense that you just know it’s metal when you hear it, but it’s like animals when it comes to defining subgenres (e.g., the presence of fast tremolo picking and minimal low-end in black metal).
The problem is that people sometimes think they see porn (or in this case, hear metal), when in reality, it’s just a strip-tease (hard rock).
So, you’re admitting that metal is completely subjective… why, then, do you feel the need to so strongly disagree with everyone’s opinions on what is metal? Don’t get me wrong, it’s led to some good debate… but it’s also led to a lot of trolling.
Is porn subjective? Not. You see porn, you know it’s porn. It’s completely objective. Just like metal.
Yeah, but that conflicts with what you said. You said, “you just know it’s metal when you hear it,” but that will mean different things to different people. I mean, there is plenty of music that blatantly isn’t metal, but with a lot of the bands on this list, they’re on the borderline, and where they fall is decided only by the person listening to it.
Someone inexperienced in porn might think that seeing a quick tit shot is the equivalent porn. The same goes for metal. Someone inexperienced in metal might think that Mudvayne or Korn is metal. Once you understand porn, and how quick flashes of nudity aren’t porn, you know what really qualifies as porn. Once again, the same goes for metal.
Ziltoid, honestly, go kill yourself.
No one here likes you. No one here agrees with you. No one here wants to hear from you. Kind of like the rest of your life, isn’t it….?
Oh, but I’m sorry, I forgot that you are the unquestionable lord and God of all things. How dare I question the great Ziltoid, the all knowing, the wise, the lonely cunt!
Shut the fuck up! Get some friends! Get some pussy! Get a job! Get a terminal disease!
@ youcan’tkillthe metal
Chill man.
i think ziltoid is looking for a job. hire him!
What can I say? I’m so omniscient that if there were to be two omnisciences, I would be both!
Na mate, you’re just a fucking dickhead!
You must provide about 30% of the posts on here, and they’re not even worthwhile. You continually tell other people they are wrong, but as soon as someone questions you, you can’t handle it. Your opinion is absoluitely right and unquestionable, your tastes in music are supreme, and your definition of what is ‘metal’ is final – are you familiar with the term ‘narcissism’? But of course you are – you invented it!
Seriously man, just fuck off…
So when you say a band is or isn’t metal, that automatically makes them either or?
I argee that the people who voted for these bands are wrong for the most part (at least on some of these bands). But, couldn’t you also be false on some matters pertaining to metal?
Or is everything that comes from your mouth FACT?
They’re hosting the list; therefore they’re hosting the shit.
Seriously, I didn’t know this place turned into Rolling Stone. They consider Tool ‘metal.’ Again, I’m a fan of theirs, and they still are the best live show I’ve ever seen (Red Rocks, and they used their recording of the alternate version of ‘Pushit’ for the Salival CD). I just want to see bands who don’t get the attention they deserve on here. That’s what this site used to be about. Well, that and making fun of Fred Durst. At least they still have that.
Look, I get it. Tool’s has a unique sound and to catagorize them as a simply a “metal” band doesn’t really do justice to their music. However, What do you want MS to do?
Make a judgement call on every entry that isn’t a cut and dry “metal” band and tell the panel to redo their list until it comes out the way they want it to? It wouldn’t be much of a list if they fucked with the results.
Finally, a well-thought out reply! Good post, Cougar Party.
Honestly, it all comes down to who’s making the picks, and how highly the ‘not-as-heavy’ albums were rated, and by how many voters. At the end of this, it would be cool to see the Top 21 list from every voter. Then we could see who considers Tool metal and who doesn’t. Personally, I think it’s an interesting debate. That’s why I’m taking time out of my otherwise-busy work day to post. I sure as shit didn’t bitch about Mastodon’s ‘Remission’ though. Masterpiece. And METAL.
Thanks, I’d like to see everyone’s list too. That would be cool.
Also, wasn’t Aenema Justin Chancellor’s first album? I thought D’Amour left after Undertow…
/shrug
Maybe not. Whatever.
You are correct. D’Amour played on Undertow
Right, but did he also play on Aenima, or had Chancellor joined by then? Just a minor prickish nitpicky point of order. No big whoop.
I’m pretty sure it was Chancellor on AEnima.
d’amour didnt play on aenima but he helped write i think four songs. i dont remember which four but its on a tool site somewhere.
You are correct, sir. Aenema was Justin’s first album with Tool.
It seems to me that the position of Lateralus on this list reflects the fact that some of the panel of voters would not consider them metal and therefore exclude them from their list. Lateralus is one of the best albums of the decade in any genre. It could end up being the least br00tal record on the list, but its still a monumental achievement in music. If I had voted for this list, It would definitely be in my top 3.
This pick is a joke… they are boring. They may be dark and brooding and stoner-ey, but they have no heaviness whatsoever, which is how I define something to be associated with metal. Bad pick for this list.
I like your pokemon
Someone make a clear definition of METAL that stretches from Black Sabbath to Judas Priest to Slayer to Cryptopsy to Pig Destroyer.
word
Dr.J, if it were that easy, we wouldn’t be debating it.
sam dunn. click link. next qeustion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal:_A_Headbanger’s_Journey
my bad.
hahaha. you get it.
Epic phale? Just kidding man,
Saw this band live in the last two years and was really bored. Should have taken some drugs.
Why on earth would you attend a Tool show sober? No pun intended.
this is tool’s best album period… fucking amazing music… and in my opinion alot more metal then #14 system of a down, so this album and this band definitely deserve to be here
Great Album, Not Metal.
Awesome album. Not really metal though. I thought it would be higher considering how Metalsucks considers Tool the best band ever.
MetalSucks didn’t put the list together. See that list of names up top…?
In this case who cares whether it’s metal or not, this band and this album are incredibly boring.
Incredibly boring ? This is one of the most intense album ever…
Listen to “The Grudge” or “Ticks & Leeches” again, nerds.
Alt-metal, prog metal..whatever. It’s metal.
Alt-rock, prog rock … toMAYto, toMAHto.
I hate this album. It was the final nail in the coffin for me liking Tool. I loved the band on Opiate and Undertow. I started to feel less sure of them after Aenima, then this shit came out and I was done. I haven’t listened to anything the band has done since.
And no, this is not metal.
You started DISLIKING the band when Aenima came out? I think 90% of people out there would say Aenima is Tool’s classic album, Tool fans or not. Even people that somehow dislike Lateralus and 10,000 Days (because they weren’t hard enough, or they were too complicated or whatever) think Aenima was great. I can’t imagine preferring the simplicity of “Part of Me” or “Crawl Away” (although I love these songs for what they are…the early stages of the evolution of a great band) to the brilliance of “H.” or “Lateralus;,” to me that’s like choosing an AM radio over a Plasma TV as your source of entertainment…but to each his own.
The whole “Tool isn’t metal” whinefest is played out bullshit, just like all of your respective moms, and though they may not be Metal Enough for your sandy vaginas there’s no other genre to plausibly slot them into.
That said, Lateralus is easily their best album-as-a-whole. The songwriting and performances are superb and I defy you not to scream along with Maynard’s GRAAAAAAH at the end of The Grudge despite the suit-clad assholes coming down the sidewalk glaring walleyed at you like you’re a fucking lunatic.
They could just be labeled as rock. I’ll even be nice and say prog rock. Unlike metal, those terms actually apply to Tool.
ALL metal could be labeled as a type of “rock.”
Another debate for another day, but metal and rock are completely different.
not really…you just lost the debate. Metal is a form of ROCK music.
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
No, really, if you keep commenting someone will eventually give a shit about your unnecessarily hyper-specific and as yet totally unelucidated definition of metal. Really.
actually, i think this is the perfect venue for that debate.
i will start us off with a difference in ethos. others more informed can weigh in on the technically musical differences.
rock is all about having a good time. the music has groove and soul. there is a rebellious element, but it is hedonistic: we will ignore the rules of society in order to have fun and express ourselves.
metal does indeed derive from the idea of pushing boundaries to express yourself. but metal also requires a sacrifice of the self* in service to an idea. thrash turns the body into a machine, death metal taps into magical intelligences, black metal is a performance of fictional characters. you can probably go on. so metal does use the formula of rock, but for a totally different purpose.
i hope we can hear some more great ideas.
*maynard says in reflection, ‘crucify the ego’.
FUCK TOOL
I love the fact that some people actually take time to post dozens of comments on this cause they don’t think a band is br00t4l or tr00 metal. Stop whining. It’s not like this list dictates what you have to listen to for the rest of your life.
Great album. Great review. Personally (and this is coming from someone who also listens to death and thrash metal too) i think it should be a little higher up on the list
*puts up flame shield*
FLAMES!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope your hair got burnt, at the very least.
Great write up. The guy who did the Machtmystium-whatever could learn a thing or 10 from you.
*Nachtmystium
amazingly well written review, great record too
also, major lols at the gore drenched metal warriors commenting.
especially rancidcorpse, “FUCK TOOL.” genius!
Wouldn’t a “fuck tool” be… a penis (be it real or artificial)?
SILICONE
Tool is metal. They’ve called themselves metal. They’re metal. Quit bitching everyone. Tool totally belongs on this list.
tool sucks lol
this list was made by a bunch of “core” faggots and the kikes at metalsucks
I ought to kill you for saying that. Calling them kikes, that is. Burn in hell.
no compromise with anti-semitism. ban the poser!
lol faggots
WIN
To all the tools out there who actually want to mince words about this being metal or not . . .
SHUUUUUUT UUUUUP STUPID!
Its not the 21 best “extrememe” metal albums, or “death” or “thrash” or “black” metal albums, its metal period. And to say that Tool isn’t “metal” enough to be on this list is just disgustingly elitist.
Just stop with the rediculous nonsence already.
We’re genre-nitpicking. I think that with the exception of a couple of trolls, we pretty much all agree that Tool is a good band. We could nitpick all day about which of their albums is their best, but would you also think that’s ‘rediculous nonsence’?
Complaining about the genre-nitpicking is just as ‘elitist’ as genre-nitpicking. You’re not better than any of us here. In fact, you can’t spell, so that puts you below most.
Well for the spelling thing, below most? Really? No it makes me human, and human I shall always be, and quite frankly you aren’t important enough for me to put everything I say through spellcheck.
As for the “genre nitpicking?” Yes that is the problem, you completely missed the point. The point was that this list is beyond specific genres, which is why a band like Lamb of God or Nachtmystium (did i misspell that? Oh wait who gives a fuck?) and Tool can all be on this list. It is because they all fall within the realm of metal.
And I would appreciate you explaining to me how exactly accepting and loving all genres of metal is elitist? I certainly do not understand that, however I never said I thought myself better then anyone, just cut the dopey bullshit.
Awwww, did my last post make you all butthurt? :) PROTIP: If you’re gonna call people stupid (joking or otherwise), you should use spellcheck in the same post.
You say that Tool falls ‘within the realm of metal’. I don’t think they do. That’s the debate, in a nutshell. If debating makes you all butthurt, then you’re on the wrong site. :) But I’ll say that I’m glad you’re passionate about the band. I was once, but then they slowly turned more into a jam-band, so I’m not as big a fan as I used to be. But I’ll always bust out Opiate or Undertow or Aenima, or even occasionally this record (although it has way too many stoner interludes).
“You say that Tool falls ‘within the realm of metal’. I don’t think they do”
HA! Yes me and the 57 panelists who put tool on this list to begin with think so asshole. I mean, what do people like Chris Adler know about metal right? ; )
Again, this has nothing to do with being “butthurt” as you so maturely put it; I just wish posters like you cut the bullshit.
So are you saying we can’t debate whether or not Tool is ‘metal’? You’re on the panel of judges, but that doesn’t make you God. Well, maybe you’re 1/58th God. :P
Your last post makes it sound like all 58 judges put Tool on their list. So, you realize that if only one of them didn’t, then my point about debating Tool’s genre is valid.
You call other people stupid, and call me an asshole, and yet I’m immature because I called out your spelling errors and used the word ‘butthurt’? Pot, kettle. We’re both immature, and let’s leave it at that. The name-calling is so ‘Blabbermouth.’
Uh, NO I am not on the panel of judges, I meant that I and the judges have something in common, but i’ll leave it at that. Your nack for pointing out the hypocrisy in irrelevance and your overwhelming amount of posting on this list shows you certainly are a pro at this blog stuff. We all have to be good at something I guess.
I wasn’t too busy at work this afternoon, so I’ve been posting more than usual. Most of the people who have disagreed with my opinion have been cool about it (Cougar Party, groverXIII). You obviously were offended for some reason, and felt passionate enough about it to post. Just because I’ve posted more than you today doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else. We’re both arguing on the internet, and we both know what that means. :)
I’m leaving to get dinner in a few minutes. Have a nice night.
To be fair Lord Bling, you spelled ‘ridiculous’ wrong. I’m not trying to be an ass, but I thought I’d point that out.
voltron, to be fair, you are full of fail. Do you see the quotes around it? I was quoting Solace’s typo. I suppose to be editorially correct, I should’ve put ‘(sic)’ after it, but that would’ve just led to Slipknot comments, and I didn’t want to put us any more off-topic than we already were. But thanks for trying not to be an ass, I guess.
Great album, and while this album is debatably metal (yes, that’s right, I’m actually on the fence about this one), I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. One of the reasons I love metal as much as I do is because it can take a lot of different forms, and you don’t really see that in other genres of music.
exactly, metal takes on many different forms and clearly the labeling “metal” gives the panelists their own breadth of interpretation. and come on now, have you heard how heavy this album is is?! that might be one thing we can all agree on in defining metal, heaviness, and this album reeks of it. should’ve been top 5 no questions asked. awesome writeup VN
It never fails to amaze me; the bitching, whining, backne-popping and hating about every selection for this poll. I may not agree with every album picked so far, but I have better things to do than PMS all over every album. And Yes, Son: this is Metal.
That said:
I agree that this and Aenima are/were Tool’s peak. Being hooked-up with Botrill of King Crimson fame was a brilliant move for this material. All their output will always be shadowed by these 2 albums. Tool and the Melvins in Seattle 2001, one of the best live shows I’ve ever witnessed, with Maynard doing his Evangelical-Preacher stand-up comedy schtik.
wow, that was well put…are you sure you’re on the right site?
What is it you are implying…
– Perhaps that I’m not Metal enough?
Yes. No Tool fan in metal. They are fags.
*is
Artard:
I never said I was a ‘fan’ of Tool.
I was merely supporting the fact that they have produced two very cohesive albums that I enjoy.
You stating, simply, that they are “Fags”, only shows your maturity-level (12 Y.O. perhaps) I think maybe you can’t deal with the fact that Danny Carey can destroy all YOUR idols on a drum-kit?
I should probably mention that; (In My Opinion) Tool without Carey would be fucken boring. He’s the only reason I listen to them.
Sorry!
I forgot to use the ‘Metal-Translator’:
Ugh!!
SLAYER!!
BEER!!
TITS!!
Actually, I am very mature. Spend some time living life and get off the computer, fat-ass. Tool sucks, they are horrible. None of their songs are even remotely good in any way. Their drummer, this Danny Carey, is nothing. He is a horrible, talentless, simplistic piece of shit who couldn’t drum his way out of a wet paper bag. Why would anybody listen to Tool? One reason, poor taste in music.
Notice how ihateyou has clearly defined what maturity is?
Now, THAT’S Metal.
Perhaps ihateyou and drumb should meet at the bike racks at 3:00.
Thanks jewbag!
win
I think it also has to do with the “mentality” of a band. These dudes are crazy motherfuckers! Ever see them live? They do it their way and always have… How are they not metal? Just because they incoprporate prog in their music, or ambient passages? Give me a fucking break! It’s really funny, i dont recalling anyone bitching about how mastodons C.T.S isn’t metal enough?… All i read is that its gonna be in the top 5, or it’s gonna be No.1 and i believe this album is equally “as heavy” as C.T.S. Not better, But just as heavy… Just my opinion
Das Ist Guten, Mein Herr…
Wasn’t this band on that list of “bands not appearing on the list”?
Anyways, I like this album. Whatever.
i could never really get into this band. too progressive without being proggy enough. its hard to explain
That make no sense.
Heavy metal (often referred to simply as metal) is a genre of rock music[1] that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s, largely in England and the United States.[2] With roots in blues-rock and psychedelic rock, the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness. Heavy metal lyrics and performance styles are generally associated with masculinity and machismo.[3]
Early heavy metal bands such as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple attracted large audiences, though they were often critically reviled, a status common throughout the history of the genre. In the mid-1970s, Judas Priest helped spur the genre’s evolution by discarding much of its blues influence; Motörhead introduced a punk rock sensibility and an increasing emphasis on speed. Bands in the New Wave of British Heavy Metal such as Iron Maiden followed in a similar vein. Before the end of the decade, heavy metal had attracted a worldwide following of fans known as “metalheads” or “headbangers”.
In the 1980s, glam metal became a major commercial force with groups like Mötley Crüe. Underground scenes produced an array of more extreme, aggressive styles: thrash metal broke into the mainstream with bands such as Metallica, while other styles like death metal and black metal remain subcultural phenomena. Since the mid-1990s, popular styles such as nu metal, which often incorporates elements of funk and hip hop; and metalcore, which blends extreme metal with hardcore punk, have further expanded the definition of the genre.
Thank You.
word
FYI, wikipedia knows nothing about metal. It can be edited by anyone, and since most people know nothing about metal and are gravely misinformed on it, Wiki shouldn’t be trusted on that matter. Unless, of course, you think that Christian Metal and Funk Metal are real genres. If so, I pity you.
FAIL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_metal
FAIL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_rock#Funk_metal
Ziltoid is right. Don’t go to wikipedia to look up things on metal. Just ask Ziltoid! He’s an all knowing source with unmitigated, elite knowledge of the underpinnings of the genre as a whole. He will sub categorize everything for you in a deep, thoughtful ways. Trust him! For pity’s sake, he even likes Load! How could you not trust the man!
In all fairness, you can’t really truly trust a site where someone who writes an article about quantum physics is given the same credence as someone who writes an article about Optimus Prime.
I have to ask, though, Ziltoid… do you recognize Viking metal as a legitimate subgenre? Because if you do, then you have to accept Christian metal as a subgenre because they both describe the themes. (Note, I didn’t say this necessarily makes Christian metal good… I view it as mythology, same as Satanic metal.)
I do not accept viking metal as a genre. It’s just serious folk metal.
so the only legit sub genres of metal are the ones you listen to and enjoy?
IMO that’s really what it seems like with all your posts
Yea…In hindsight, the term “Christian Metal” may have been more of a warning then an example of a genre. Unfortunately, some really good bands got lumped into that category that weren’t necessarily Christian. Believer was fucking awesome!
Believer was pretty good, but their newest album was disappointing to say the least. Another great Christian-themed band I know of is Theocracy (power metal). Their latest album, “Mirror of Souls” is really great and quite varied for a power metal album (the only track I don’t like is the title track….all 22 minutes). Definitely better than this entire list so far.
Most Christian-themed bands tend to let lyrics get in the way of the music, but bands that do it don’t, like Theocracy and Antestor (black metal), have done some really good things.
i’m not going to argue the genre thing.
but i still think this list is fucking stupid.
everybody’s opinion is just going to flare up
and no one’s “perfect” list will ever be made by this site, or those “voters”
all i can say is, go listen to your favorite albums
and fuck this stupid list.
Arsis ftw
that list is a fucking embarrassment. it basically says all the bands that are on MTV are in fact, the best metal has to offer. isn’t this an independent metal site?
off the top of my head, i can certainly think of 20 random, real metal bands that are more agreeable [to not just me] to be on that list. and it’s not elitist to say that tool is not metal. they are not metal.
No, what it says is that, despite what you want to think, “anti-popularity” does not automatically mean something is good. Sorry to break it to you, but just because you know about a band that someone who only listens to radio rock has never heard of does not mean that you have some inside knowledge about THE GREATEST MUSIC EVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!>?!#!#O@RK
Give the metal or not argument a rest and give all the bullshit, ego stroking, elitist, “I’m more br00tal and counterculture than you” garbage a rest. You’re all making fools of yourselves. Most of these comments would fit right in on Blabbermouth and I mean that in the most insulting way possible.
Mike and VFH, good job helping to show these morons for the douce kits they are.
This is Ben Apatoff, isn’t it? Go ahead and admit it. You’re defending your pick. We get it.
When people call others ’stupid’ or ‘fools’ in their posts, and then misspell common words like ‘douche’? To me, THAT is what Blabbermouth posters do.
Holy shit, MTV still has music on its channel? I had no clue. Then again, I don’t watch MTV, so I shouldn’t know what is and isn’t on it
…not that that machine head album isn’t awesome
Tell me something everyone: do you consider progressive metal… well… metal? cause that’s what Tool is, a progressive metal band. If Tool, in your opinion, is not a metal band, than so are Dream Theater, Symphony X, Queensryche, etc.
I consider progressive metal as metal. I don’t consider Tool progressive metal. Progressive rock, sure, but not metal. Tool really does not sound much at all like the other three bands that you listed, who are examples of progressive metal bands.
Yeah, shit, you ask me they sound more along the lines of a band like…. hmmm…. Sabbath maybe…. Oh, wait… Is Sabbath metal???? Shalll we count the ways that Tool is similar to Sabbath? Shall we include in this all the ways that Tool has done things that are heavier than Sabbath even did? Shall we point out how all this genre talk is the LEAST metal shit I have ever heard????????
Seriously, how about you guys just talk about what you really want to talk about, who you think should have won on american idol. Because you sure as hell come off like people who would be concerned about that kind of thing. You’re obviously more concerned about everything having to do with music other than the actual music.
I’m getting the idea that Tool is not considered a metal band because they have “competition.” Allow me to explain. When Sabbath debuted, they were the heaviest music anyone had ever heard and there wasn’t anybody else like them. Thus, they were called metal. Now, here is a band known as Tool. They are much heavier than Sabbath, yet they are not metal (according to these commentators’ opinions). Why? Their current metal contemporaries are far heavier.
Except Tool doesn’t sound ANYTHING like Black Sabbath, at least certainly not on this album. And as for Tool being heavier than Sabbath, I agree. Tool is sometimes heavier than Black Sabbath. But “heavy” and “metal” are not synonymous. A band can be heavy without being metal.
Can you give me an example of a band being heavy without being metal? I’m not being critical, I’m just curious.
But your problem is that Tool doesn’t write metal music. Listen to some of those old Sabbath riffs. Listen to songs like Into the Void. They have legitimately doomy riffs. That’s because Sabbath is doom metal. Tool doesn’t write metal riffs. It’s not the loudness or distortion that makes a band metal–anyone can do that. It’s the music you compose.
How is the riff from “Lateralus” not metal? What’s so not metal about it? Last time I checked, DAH DAH DAH DUM! was pretty fucking metal.
I love progressive metal. I do consider it metal (that was a dumb question to ask). It’s most of my music collection. Dream Theater, Symphony X, and Queensryche are all prog metal. Tool is nowhere near those bands (and I think Queensryche is awful, but at least I can’t deny that they’re prog metal). It’s all in the composition of their songs, and in that matter, Tool writes (possibly prog) ROCK songs.
Dude, for a while I could kinda agree with your stance,BUT, to say TooL isn’t metal & Queesnryche is progressive metal just completely puzzles me. AEnima was heavier & far more complex than anything Queensryche has ever produced…PERIOD!
Yes is prog rock. King Crimson is prog rock. The Mars Volta are prog rock. Rush is prog rock. Tool is prog metal.
Yea, I agree with you, but, since when has Queensryche become a “Prog Metal” band?? You name the album where they have incorporated some syncopation & complex time signatures or dabbled with other genres with the likes of Watchtower,Dream Theater,Atheist,Spiral Architect or even Fates Warning for that matter. Let me guess… Operation Mindcrime because it was a concept album??
Progressive metal
Main article: Progressive metal
Progressive metal is a fusion between progressive rock and heavy metal. It is one of heavy metal’s more complex genres, due to its use of unusual and dynamic time signatures, long compositions, complex compositional structures, and virtuosic instrumental playing, where instrumental solos are detailed and extended. However, the latest age of Progressive Metal has favoured rougher lyrics and lower-pitched riff sequences with high amounts of strumming. Vocals, if present, are melodic and lyrics are often philosophical, spiritual, or political. Examples of the genre include Tool, Queensrÿche, Dream Theater and Fates Warning.
These posts are cracking me up! Keep ‘em coming…
Umm, yea, usually the fusion doesn’t stop at Rock & Metal unless you truly believe these horrible Wikipedia entries that you’ve been reciting. OR, if you really don’t know jack shit about Progressive Metal.
Again, Queensryche has never been “Prog”…*Ugh*.
Metal-ish enough to be on the list, but not good enough to be on the list.
Heh… that seems to be the opposite of most peoples’ opinions, which I find to be extremely entertaining. It’s nice to see something a little different, though.
I think I smell the scent of a shit-stirrer :P
Awesome album. Metal? Close enough. 12th best metal album of the decade? Of course not. But it’s one of the best albums on the list so far, so good enough.
As usual the douchebags are out in force laying claim to the word ‘metal.’ Art has no objectivity- it cracks me up to see people throw out their absolute certainty that their opinion is correct and objectively true, and anything else is fundamentally false. People like that need to smoke more dope and free their minds a bit more. Jerking of over genre definition is an utter waste of time. Just like arguing in internet forums… oh wait.
So you’re hoping for Britney Spears to be somewhere on this list then?
I’m sorry, but when you’re making a list of the best METAL albums, genre definitions are actually quite important.
not when people are being pedantic snobs about the drawing the finest possible line between is and is not metal.
CoB covered Britney, so clearly she qualifies.
Great album. Definitely Tool’s best and heaviest. And it IS metal. Alt-metal, prog-metal, metal with prog and alt-rock elements, whatever you want to call it…metal. Though I agree that it would be nicer to see more obscure/unknown acts (I also agree that artists shoud’ve only been allotted a single entry) the list IS called BEST metal albums of the 21st century, not best OVERLOOKED metal albums of the 21st century, or best THRASH/DEATH/BLACK/GRIND albums, so some albums are bound to be mega-popular…I mean, they only got to be mega-popular due to their quality and not due to overbearing marketing, right? Right?
\m/ up
An btw all these bands you keep reffering to as troo- metal bands are not actually Troo- metal bands they are part of sub genre’s or cross genre’s metal is just a huge umbrella to describe many different genres here’s your definition of metal !!
Extreme metal
Main article: Extreme metal
Extreme metal is a cross-genre term used to describe heavy metal that is considerably heavier, faster, more aggressive and more abrasive. For example; vocalists may often use death growls or high-pitched shrieks and more obscene lyrics, drummers may often use blast beats, and the band’s appearance may be intended to shock. Bands of this grouping are typically of the black metal, death metal, doom metal and thrash metal genres.
its supose to be “YOUR” definition
Did you ever stop and think that maybe your source is horribly misinformed as well?
ok well you go talk to wikipedia about that one!!
but me myself i agree with them
As I said before, wiki is editable by anyone. Since most people are gravely misinformed about metal, they post crap like this and think it’s real:
FAIL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_metal
FAIL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_rock#Funk_metal
Unless, of course, you think that Christian Metal and Funk Metal are real genres. If so, I pity you.
You must learn to question the source of your information before blindly post it. I have been into metal for a very long time and have experienced each subgenre. I know what I’m talking about.
Just out of curiosity, what is a “very long time?” What was the first metal album you bought and how old were you? How old are you now? Just stating “you know what you are talking about” doesn’t make it any truer than what people write on to wikipedia…
I’ll go first for the sake of argument. I have been listening to metal since 1988- got Reign in Blood when it was the current Slayer release. I was 15. I have been a metal fan for 21 years.
I don’t care for genre… I just like good bands.
I’ve been listening to metal for 8 years (I’m 20). My first actual metal albums were regretfully Metallica’s MoP and RtL (bought them on the same night). But what makes me more knowledgeable is that I constantly delve into the genre and expand my taste every day. All of this research has shown me what bands are actually good and what bands really aren’t all they’re hyped up to be (like Metallica). Forums are also a good place to go for guidance when your inexperienced with metal, but I find that I’m good enough on my own now to find anything I want.
Just because you’ve been a fan for 21 years doesn’t mean you know anything. RiB is a decent starter album, since most people tend to start out with mainstream ones, but for all I know, you could still be listening to Kerry King’s crap solos each day, not actually trying to find a better band. If you don’t care for genre, you most likely don’t like good bands. I know that I’m most fond of progressive metal. Hence why I tend to like more prog bands that I find than any other genre. By using specific genre labels, people can easily find what they like.
http://metal-archives.com/
Go ahead, search for some better thrash bands than Slayer. That website is pretty accurate. Try Exodus, Kreator, Testament, Overkill, Sadus, Heathen, old Anacrusis, Hospital of Death, etc.
Maybe look into modern thrash like Warbringer (even though I don’t care for this movement, you might). You’ll suddenly find lots of bands that you will realize are much better than Slayer. Thus, this research will make you more knowledgeable.
@ziltoid.
that is your problem man, you cant research good music. music is not a science. its not based on facts and tests and studies. music is art. art is made to be interpreted. research cannot tell you “this band is good, that band sucks”
you have to quit trying to tell everyone why they are wrong just because they interpret music differently than you do. just sit down with an album and listen to it. if it makes you feel good, its good music. you shouldnt need research to tell you that. so fuck your research and self righteous opinion because its not doing anyone any good
Ziltoid, you do know how to entertain, I’ll grant you that. But your vast experience of all of 8 years of metal has yet to mature you at all. Music is an artform, you can’t measure its quality since it is all based on personal taste. What you think is great others will not like. Just take all the different tastes on this board. Metal is wide ranging in style and characteristics. Some people like grindcore, some don’t, some like progressive, some don’t, etc, etc. At the end of the day, its all about listening to what you personally enjoy, not what some anonymous internet user thinks is ‘true’ or not. If you are letting other’s opinions of music drive your own personal tastes then you really have no idea what music is all about.
But art is not entirely objective. If I scribble a drawing of the Mona Lisa, it will OBJECTIVELY be worse than the original. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Even though both my drawing and the original qualify as art, the original would be better in every single way.
Some people might like some music more than others, but some is just composed better. For example, I tend not to like most sludge metal. But I am more than willing to admit that Acid Bath wrote much better music than Black Label Society (when they played sludge). I researched the genre, I didn’t like most of it, but I certainly found that there were bands out there that were musically better than others.
It’s not about interpreting. You don’t “interpret” whether something is good, you interpret the meaning behind things.
Is it wrong to say that some people have worse taste than others? Some people grow up listening to Disney pop/trash like Jonas Brothers. They have objectively worse taste in music than someone who listens to (for example) classic rock.
But music is not about listening to what other people think is “true.” Music is about finding the best out there. That’s why, for example, people who know things about metal will recommend Blind Guardian over Dragonforce any day. It’s not that Blind Guardian happens to be “true,” it’s that they happen to be really good, while the people who restrict themselves to the more popular Dragonforce would otherwise not be exposed to them. People may enjoy Dragonforce, but if they were exposed to better power metal, they would most likely enjoy that even more.
what was that? i do believe you just said art is not entirely objective. meaning it is subjective. meaning it is open to interpretation and the decision of good and bad is made by the individual based on his or her personal likes and dislikes. which is EXACTLY what i said earlier.
maybe you should research subjective vs. objective before you waste your time forming your opinions about what music is good and what is bad because some internet archive places it in a certain sub genre. oh, and a little less trolling would be appreciated too
Ziltoid, your statement: “But music is not about listening to what other people think is “true.” Music is about finding the best out there” sums up pretty much why a lot of people on this site think you are a tool, no pun intended. Its about listening to music ‘you’ enjoy, not what some elitest schmucks think is the ‘best.’ Its pure personal taste. No one is going to agree on what defines the best of any particular genre. Another eight years from now you’ll find your preferences in music will have change/evolved/expanded yet again and you’ll look back at the surety of your statements today and laugh.
And who are you to say that someone’s taste in music is measureably worse than yours? So what if someone likes disney pop stuff. Sure, I personally can’t stand it and think its trash also, but obviously a shit ton of people like it and buy it up. If they want to listen to it, more power to them. As long as they don’t come preaching to me that I have to listen to it I couldn’t care less what they enjoy. Much like yourself, coming to the site and posting hundreds of times trying to convince people that their taste in music should match yours, its fairly annoying.
But then again, I remember back when I was a teenager trying to convince my friends who didn’t listen to metal that what they listened to was skillless trash also so perhaps its a phase we all have to go thru.
Finally Ziltoid, I agree with you on something. Kerry King’s solos are horrendous. Terrance Hobbs plays all the solos KK wishes he could play.
As much as I can agree with Cy & Iceman – They do have schools for the arts,so, while there may be some subjectivity it is totally based on one’s experience and the amount of time studying the subject at hand. IMHO, the principles of science in relation to music can be applied to technical ability,superior crafted equipment(instruments,etc) and the IQ of the person writing the music. There is a reason why Classical music is still revered to this day…
sygnal i do agree. art forms can be taught in school and enhanced through teaching and practice. so yes an art school graduate is much better at painting than a kindergartener. the only problem i have with ziltoids logic is that he is making the lines of art black and white, when really they are blurred. it isn’t possible, or even really reasonable to try and clump art into specific, pre defined genres because art is expression. it is an extension of the artist. it doesn’t follow a certain set of rules which is why it is open to interpretation by the listener, viewer, critic, etc.
iceman, I do hear what you are saying and I can understand your point of view. BUT, to me, Art/Music is a form of communication and though it is open to interpretation it is solely dependent upon the level of intelligence of both parties. Unfortunately, the majority of people like stuff they don’t have to think about but just because they choose the “dumbing down” path doesn’t mean there isn’t better music.
Personally, I think you need to take into account,just like classical, the time period from which the music came or the comparisons will be grossly inaccurate.
I never really ‘got’ tool, it always seems like their trying really hard to make an abstract point which makes the themes and idea’s in their music quite pretentious and banal. although Its not really a reflection of their music they have always been used by stoner friends to display how ‘deep’ they are and insist i’ve never ‘ REALLY listened to them” which I assume means smoked a bowl before hand.
same hear
I was a much bigger fan back when I still smoked weed. However, their love for Bill Hicks will always make them great in my eyes.
I can respect that. Personally, I’ve never smoked weed and listened to them, but I still really enjoy their music. It’s all a matter of personal taste.
… or personal desire for munchies.
I always hear about how great certain bands are listen to while high, but I feel like I’m the only one who thinks Iron Maiden is fucking amazing while blazed. Does anyone agree?
yeah man, i agree entirely
I also think the genre debate is silly. Until someone steps up with an actual music theory definition of metal, its all simply a matter of opinion. Given the wide range of styles and characteristics in metal, I seriously doubt any such definition is even possible. Music is an art form, and it is all on how each person interprets it. One of the things I personally like about metal is that fact that bands keep pushing themselves in different directions and trying new things. The best bands are the ones that try and continually progress, not sit tight in some little subgenre and bang out the same album year after year.
In my opinion Tool is definitely metal, and I think this album should’ve been higher on the list, top 10 easily.
I think the whole debate stems from the fact that you can’t really trace the beginnings of metal. While most people (including myself) believe Black Sabbath was the first, there’s plenty others that will point to Deep Purple or even Hendrix, just to name a few. Additionally, there seems to be a disconnect between fan’s understandings of metal music and heavy music. They both relate to each other, obviously, but the debate begins when a band falls under the heavy music label, but it’s “metalness” (for lack of a better term) is skeptical. That’s my two cents, at least.
For my money, Tool isn’t exactly metal. But they certainly fall under the heavy label and are extremely influential to the metal genre, even if Lateralus or Aenima aren’t really metal themselves.
Metal can be traced all the way back to Delta Blues
Exactly… I didn’t mention that but it obviously goes further back than late 60’s hard rock. Shit, you could even go as for back as Richard Wagner. Ride of the Valkyries, what a br00tal riff.
This is a great record, but I don’t think it belongs on this list. I don’t find them metal. Just my two cents
hello again friends. i, as you know, am ziltoid. id like to let you all know i eat dog. i also am a big fan of the boogyman. hes cool. no, hes METALLLLLL!!!!!! i also hate sunshine, childrens innocense, and heterosexual sex. that is all. untill another time, see yall, and as always, your ohh soo not metal.
If you were at least funny, it would be ok. Unfortunately, humor is not one of your skills. Hell, I doubt you have any skills tbqh. And what’s wrong with not being a hateful homophobe?
Dude, ziltoid 2, you’re trying too hard and it’s not making you any funnier. FAIL.
Epic fail
Children’s innocense: What metalheads burn when they’re smoking weed.
This album is not metal, but it really changed something in me.Not only in the way I saw music, but also in the way I saw everything else…A real watershed for me.Particularly “The Grudge”…This album has a particular place in my entire life
tool bores me to death. and also they are not really metal. id even argue that system and slipknot are way more metal than tool. how is this album, so high up on the list. easily the weakest of the bunch.
Not metal, but amazing fucking album.
Only # 12? Y’all gosta be kiddin me! Should be #1. …
Can some of us petition for a com-budsman like the one over at deadspin?? This place is getting way too full of salad tossers with their thumb and opinion shoved way up their ass. We need more people like EarthIsGay!
YAY! 1st album on this list I actually like!
Why the hell do you call him Jim Chancellor?
does anybody read all of these asinine comments…does anybody have that much time to waste.
I’m not really a tool fan…or a mastodon fan
Need to put Lamb of God’s “As The Palaces Burn”, Between The Buried And Me’s “Colors” and Protest The Hero’s “Fortress” on this list
This guy is talking some sense. I bet LoG appears again though (and not just because Chris Adler is on the panel).
I think that’s inevitable
As The Palaces Burn will definitely be in the top 10.
But Protest the Hero isn’t metal… Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Genre argument aside, this is one of the best records I have ever heard. If this album does not suck you in and warp your mind then you’ve probably heard too much Disturbed and can’t fathom actual musical complexity. There are only a handful of records that impact you so hard you actually have a new outlook on life, this was one of those for me. This record came out in 2001 pretty much at the peak of the “nu-metal” phase. This restored my faith that great music can still be made at a time when Limp Bizkit and Korn dominated.
This album does not suck me in. And I don’t listen to Disturbed. I’d put this album against BTBAM’s “Colors” ANYDAY
My mind was too busy being warped by Arcturus and Gorguts. After those actually complex artists, this album seemed like it fit in perfectly with the simplicity that is nu-metal. I’m not saying it’s nu-metal, but it’s not really that complex outside of some drum parts.
Complexity isn’t necessarily showing off everything you can do, the way Arcturus and Gorguts do. I can’t stand Arcturus, I really like Gorguts a lot, but they do hit you with everything they know at all times. The beauty of the metal that Tool creates is that it is paradoxically simple and complex. Rather than jamming and rocking out, they actually COMPOSE their music. They carefully layer parts over one another and structure the flow of an entire song with utter attention to detail. If some of those parts happens to be simple, repeated, syncopated palm-muting patterns, that doesn’t disqualify it from being complex. It’s the careful composition, attention to details and complete lack of sloppiness that make it complex. Complexity does not always mean lots of things happening at once, like Arcturus or most of Devin Townsend’s music.
Just a question, since I’ve seen lot’s of people petition for several different bands…
Is anyone else gonna be a little perturbed if they don’t see Unhallowed or Fused Together in Revolving Doors somewhere within the last 11?
nope
Yeah, I didn’t think so. I’m in the gross minority of non-Opeth worshipers.
While I worship Opeth, I would also like to see the two albums you mentioned on here. With the way this list is going, I sincerely doubt it will happen. I think we’ll have one of the top ten end up being a surprise, but that’s it.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no hope for Unhallowed and a sliver of a chance Fused Together will make it… it’s just been too mainstream.
That thing Chancellor does in Lateralus sounds like a whammy pedal to me, but of course it might just be good old-fashioned slides down the neck. His delay and whammy-soaked chords and harmonics in Disposition are quite incredible too.
Finally a metal album! 11 spots left; hope there’s room for Drowning Pool!!!!!!11!one!
*raises Vodka-Red Bull* cheers!
Fuck Tool. Comma. Fuck this list. Period.
Go. Period. Suck. Period. A. Period. Dick! Exclamation point. Period.
if this is #12 then it means that hollywood undead will surely be #1
Dude can everyone just appreciate this album for what it is? The absolute creative peak of one of the best, most innovative bands around. Being metal isn’t about how much you scream or how fast you play. Tool is heavy as shit, and this album is fucking amazing. They’ve never sold out, they do whatever the fuck they want, and they’re sound is totally original. That’s metal.
I could play the same notes over and over on my guitar for 8 minute too. Does that mean I’m creative? Or do I need to add the dying cat wails of Maynard to be respected?
Don’t pretend you’re a guitarist of any worth… it’s obvious you’re not after that comment
I’m not, hence putting me in the same category as the talentless mess that is this band.
see there are some legitimate arguments that tool isn’t metal, but saying they aren’t TALENTED is absolutely fucking retarded
i hate tool because playing their songs on guitar hero is boring as fuck.
Yeeeaah, I’d have to agree with the guy that said calling Tool “talentless,” regardless if you hate them, is unbelievably idiotic. Maybe if you are an “AxeRipper” who only digs thrashy jerkoff sessions on the guitar you would be unimpressed by Tool, but everyone in the band is plenty talented. Carey is a goddamn virtuoso, Maynard is extraordinarily skilled in so many vocal styles, and Jones and Chancellor are hardly slouches. Carey’s drumming is often the main focus, so Chancellor and Jones play supporting roles, not trying to overwhelm the overall sound. For some reason, certain people think that since Jones’ guitar parts can be simple, that he isn’t talented. Everyone compliments each other; Jones’ simplicity coupled with Carey’s complexity and power just WORKS.
And as to the “playing Tool songs on Guitar Hero is boring” comment…Tool’s guitar work isn’t that complicated, if you prefer DragonForce type wank-fest shredding, you need to look elsewhere. If they had “Drum Hero” however, you could play a Tool song and lose your mind at the difficulty.
lets just hope white pony doesnt show up after this
I find it hilarious that White Pony was the exact next pick.
I didnt read ANY comments above and am sure that somebody already said this; going on the offchance that they did not I will say it anyway. I really do like this band but they are more overrated than blowjobs on tuesdays
Tool is the worst thing to happen to music since
Nickelback.
lol. bravo.
you’re the worst thing to happen to humanity since AIDS
Tool came before nickelback
Win
Tool is alternative. But let’s just say they ARE metal. I refuse to believe that the fuckers who made this list can’t come up with 21 better albums. I don’t come to this website hoping to find news about bands i could get news about on my local alt rock radio station. I come to get news on metal bands who don’t get media attention. I want Black Dahlia shit, Bloodbath shit, Children of Bodom shit, etc. There are fucking 12 year old girls wearing Tool shirts. If I hear your song played after a Kings of Leon song, you sir are not metal. I have never heard Tool once scream, yell, play a blast beat, or make me want to form a mosh pit. Generally Tool makes me want to sleep. That is also not metal. Tool is a good alternative band (and one of the only good alternative bands) But really, put some fucking metal on here that actually blasts.
I’m sure Maynard has blast-beated on a dude’s face before.
blasted and or beated
Screaming,yelling and blast beats don’t make a band METAL.
Also the admins here have said many times before this isn’t a news site.
you’ve obviously never listened to anetma ( memory is fuzzy atm) also check out sober prison sex and stinkfist
thats not screaming, its epic dramatic theatric vocals.
If he thinks Tool puts him to sleep and so isn’t metal, I wonder what he thinks of Doom Metal. And I’ve heard a (pre Black album) Metallica song played after Kings of Leon on the radio. So are Metallica not metal either? Honestly, some people are so dumb I’m surprised they know how to turn their computers on…
I’ve never seen a 12 year old girl wearing a Tool shirt in the year 2009, and if I ever do I’ll think to myself “Wow, 12 year old girls have gotten a lot more badass since I was 12″.
lets use the lamest arguement in the book if its heavy its metal….
great CD.I don’t think it should be this high on the list though IMO.
This is obviously a METAL album and people who think it’s not,
are just very very close minded.
These people that keep saying this or that album/artist isn’t metal
really need to figure out what the word METAL means.
I am pretty sure these same people think that Black Sabbath,Deep Purple and Iron Maiden aren’t metal bands either.Pretty fucking funny.
Get a clue.
what makes you think that deep purple is a metal band?
lol what do you think NWOBHM means?
Once again just because a band isn’t br00tal doesn’t mean they are not metal.
Heavy Metal = Metal any way you cut it. It doesn’t matter if someone likes the band/sub genre or not It doesn’t change the fact of what it is. Opinions don’t make fact. I have been listening to metal and rock music since I was 3 years old.I am 28 now.In my 25 years of listening to all sorts of bands and sub genres I have seen metal music evolve into all kinds of different things.I may not like some of the bands or some of the sub genres that have been spewed out over the years but it doesn’t mean they aren’t metal.You guys understand what I am saying.What I am talking about is based on facts not opinion.What a lot of people here are doing is saying this or that is or isn’t metal and it is being based on their opinion and not facts.We can sit here an beat this horse all day nothing is gonna change because people are so close minded and just can’t admit when they are wrong.It’s very sad because some of you are missing out on some sick metal bands.
Deep Purple isn’t metal. Most Black Sabbath albums are also not considered metal. They are proto-metal meaning they jump started the whole metal music, but aren’t themselves considered metal .
This should have been top 5. 10,000 days will make this list (really should) but no way should it be higher than this.
10,000 days was a very mediocre album compared to Tool’s past work
Favorite band, favorite album, great review. Should have been # 0.
Watch Nightmare before Christmas while listening to this album & spend 79 minutes convincing yourself these match up thematically & that you didn’t waste your time.
Whatever, Tool win. Best band to listen, smoke or fuck to. #12 be damned, theres fucking magic on this album that will last decades. Half the shit on this list will be forgotten once the protege’s step up & replace them, but Lateralus & all that hot shit will last lifetimes.
TOOL IS NOT METAL!!!!! NO WHERE NEAR IT!!!!TOOL IS NOT METAL!!!!! NO WHERE NEAR IT!!!!
All I’ve got to say about Tool, and especially this album, is this. If you like it, the experience of listening to it is incredibly rewarding. More so than a lot of other 21st century albums. If you don’t, you never will and that’s fine too. Sucks for you. Whether you think it qualifies as “metal” or not is irrelevant. Enough people do that it definitely qualifies for a metal list. In other words, it’s a great album, and it’s metal enough. This isn’t the 21 Most Metal Metal Albums of the 21st century.
I have no opinion on this. Lucky you, metalsucks
i actually totally agree with this list so far, apart from maybe the war within, its an amazing album but probably not in the top 21 of this century.
WHERE THE FUCK IS KURTIS BLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is a perfect circle gonna make the list?
Tool hey?? JACK JOHNSON or MIKA must be in with a chance if they are letting other albums that aren’t metal in.
haha fuck tool
Tooooooooooool….This is totally deserving although Enima should be higher up the list somewhere.
Considering it came out in 1996…no it shouldn’t.
Haha, owned
Best album on the list so far. Their best album IMO…
Good, I was wondering when Tool would make an appearance. I’m gonna make a prediction that 10,000 Days will make an appearance within the next five days. And that Mastodon will show up two more times with Crack the Skye taking the number one spot
I highly doubt that 10,000 days will make the list, not that it isn’t a decent album, but i think its safe to say more people don’t think it matchs up against their earlier work ( I could be wrong on that tho). And considering how new Crack the Skye is I’d be surprised if it made the list. Plus, you can easily argue that Crack the Skye isn’t metal either, its definitely more progressive rock oriented than anything they’ve done previously. And I’m not knocking Crack the Skye by saying that, I think its a good album and I don’t personally care if people call it metal or not, but since the latest rage on this board is on how metal something is, I can see a heated debated on it if it did make the list.
Crack the Skye is not really metal in the heavy sense (in the prog sense it is but so is Tool, right?)
I think if Crack the Skye makes it is because it’s an album by a metal band.
10,000 days would have been great if it had as much MUSIC as Lateralus. The actual music on that album was easily as good as anything Tool has ever done, but they kind of spoiled the album by adding in a lot of interludes and crazy sounds and shit. Jambi and Rosetta Stoned are definitely two of my favorite Tool songs. But it didn’t hold up as a whole album, too many boring parts.
Dude, every metal magazine/website in the world is breaking their jaw they’re sucking off Mastodon so hard. Hell, this site gave it the highest rating it can give and every other metal site I’ve seen it reviewed on has em jizzing in their pants as well. Really, do not be surprised.
I’m not going to get into the are they metal debate. I can fully understand why some people will debate Tool begin called metal. I don’t think they are classified as pure Prog metal, but more Alternative rock/metal. What I will say is I like Tool. They are far from my favorite band, but I do listen to them time to time. What I dislike about the Tool, actually has nothing to do with them, but with their idiot fans who think Tool is the second coming of Jesus. What a bunch of Tools.
6th paragraph. His name is Justin not Jim assuming that is who you are talking about.
I think that a big problem hear is that many people feel that in order for something to be considered “metal” it means it has to be obscure or underground. Metal is as popular as its ever been and I think that deep down allot of people have a problem with that because it exposes their best kept secret and taints it to a certain extent, which isn’t necessarily wrong. But it is a bit self – deceiving.
What people on this board need to realize is to a mainstream audience – for better or worse – Tool, Black Sabbath, Disturbed etc. IS metal. And that is just how it is people. You can debate it hear forever or even banish any band that has any kind of real success, but it won’t change the fact that even the most mainstream (true) metal bands like Lamb of God for instance is unlistenable to some people. And I’m talking about the older crowd who didn’t grow up during the era of metalcore, the crowd who don’t care for growly or screamy vocals and blast beats, BUT still appreciate heavy music in general. We have been spoiled by an era of music that to some degree battles each other to be the most extreme, which is why I really do appreciate this list. It reminds us of the root of metals older sensibilities.
Metal (to me anyway) is not about some giant pissing contest. It is music with texture and depth both in music, content, and atmosphere. And that is why Tool is metal to me.
Well put. I think the mere fact that it’s debatable whether or not Tool is metal qualifies them for this list. Same goes for SOAD. They are both excellent bands who fit under the very massive and unspecific umbrella of metal. Metal is just like jazz, in that there are is an infinite number of inventive possibilities that can be created and revered by fans as long as they fit under the VERY VERY LOOSE criteria for their genre. Metal is not a specific tag at all, it’s one of the least specific genre tags you could possibly give a band. Metal doesn’t necessarily mean alienation, or evil dark lyrics and imagery, or fantastic imagery, or grim production, or theatricality, or wild guitar solos, or guys with long hair, or brutality, or music about war, or any of the million other aspects that are commonly present in different types of metal. Metal means it has metal riffs, plain and simple. Under that criteria, there are thousands and thousands of incredible metal albums that came out in the 21st century alone, a lot of them obscure, and a lot of them mainstream (for metal), and it would be extremely dishonorable to leave out Tool. They worked their asses off to get where they are today, it’s not like some exec heard them and said “you’re the next big thing, we’re gonna make you superstars, now do this line of coke off of this whore’s ass.” They might be mainstream but they never watered down their music to cater to the mainstream. They just play, and a shitload of people listen, because they’re a special band.
Just to set the records straight, Tool is not progressive metal. Here’s a quote from Maynard which clarifies this seemingly endless argument:
“As far as the prog-references go, we embrace them. However, we would prefer our new moniker, which is a Mulligan stew of progressive rock, Bulgarian folk metal, rock ’n’ roll, ’80s disco and Christian rap that we like to call ‘munge.’”
So there; Tool is Munge.
Correction. Tool is ‘garbage’.
Aw, come on buddy, lighten up. Tool is amazing! If you can make an argument as to how they are crap, I’d love to hear it.
So far, the best people can come up with is “They aren’t metal,” “They’re boring,” and “They suck.” Those really aren’t solid claims, they’re just baseless opinions and insults. Most people agree that Tool is the fucking shit, so it would take one hell of a reason to justify that they aren’t.
Maybe this has been said already, but I don’t have hours to read through all the comments, but I MUST say……..
If The Blackening, Blood Mountain, and Lateralus are this low on the list……..what goddamn 11 metal albums were better in the past 10 years than these? I can see Blackwater Park, Leviathon (best Mastodon IMHO), and maaaybe As The Palaces Burn ahead of these, but seriously.
On top of that, what makes a great metal album in the first place? Experimentation? Brutalness? Incorporation of other genres? No list will ever be 100% legit.
P.S. Guarantee Death Magnetic lands in Top 5.
The only ones I think we can guarantee will be on the list will be The Way of All Flesh, Blackwater Park, and Leviathan, and Crack the Skye(my guess for number one). Beyond that, I’m interested to see what makes the cut
I also think the “Maybe’s” include:
Killswitch Engage-The End of Heartache
Iron Maiden-Brave New World
Trivium-Ascendancy
Cannibal Corpse-Kill
Napalm Death-Smear Campaign
After reading a large portion of the comments I think I can safely say that the majority of the posters (read: Lord Bling and Ziltoid) don’t actually believe metal music exists after Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, etc etc. If I’ve read them correctly (and I know they’ll rip me a new asshole regardless), here is (a possiblity of) their top 10 (in no particular order):
Iron Maiden – Brave New World
Iron Maiden – Dance of Death
Iron Maiden – A Matter of Life and Death
Slayer – God Hates Us All
Slayer – Christ Illusion
Metallica – St. Anger
Metallica – Death Magnetic
Judas Priest – Nostradamus
Judas Priest – Angel of Retribution
Judas Priest – Demolition
Zitloid hates Metallica (and I don’t think he likes Slayer either).
Didn’t say they liked/disliked the bands. I just figure they’re the only ones that fit their definition of what makes music “metal”.
No ‘new asshole’ coming, although your semi-troll post did make me laugh. I haven’t bought a Metallica album since the black album, and I’ve never been a huge Maiden or Priest fan (although I appreciate what they’ve done for metal). Slayer is Slayer, but we all know what they’ve done in this decade isn’t much compared to what they used to be. However, I’m just glad they’re still recording.
My top ten would have (in no particular order):
Opeth — pretty much anything they’ve done this decade, but BWP first
SYL — Alien
Cynic — Traced in Air
Behemoth — Demigod
Nile — Annihilation of the Wicked
Dying Fetus — Destroy the Opposition
Gojira — From Mars to Sirius
Isis — Oceanic
Lamb of God — As the Palaces Burn
Pig Destroyer — Prowler in the Yard
There. That’s my list. And that’s the beauty of doing lists … everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am, or how mainstream my tastes are, or how dumb I am and that my mom should’ve aborted me, et.al. :)
thats probably the best list ive seen here
Tool deserves no mention whatsoever.
Tool.
Please, someone just post (or post a link to) an all-encompassing definition of metal. I definitely can’t come up with one, so I challenge you guys to do it. What makes an album “Metal”? Is it speed, instrumental virtuosity, screamed vocals, pounding minor key riffs, intensity, raw cathartic aggression or some combination of these and other factors. Hell, just defining what makes an album truly heavy is a daunting task. Does the mainstream appeal of bands like Tool or SoaD make them less metal? I don’t think so, but I want to hear what everyone has to say.
Find me something legitimate, some grand theory of metal that can’t easily be refuted, then we’ll discuss whether or not Tool is metal.
One thing makes metal. Slams. That is all.
To me metal is about the Heaviness of the guitar or the style of the riffs.. BREAKING BENJAMIN are more metal than tool.
Dragonforce.
You just lost any credibility you might have had by mentioning Breaking Benjamin. FAIL.
I’m completely sick of all of the genre disputes.
You are all children.
And I’m sick of all this love for bands, that sure, are heavy, like Slayer but then you hate on bands like TOOL who musically are better.
Your an idiot. Tool is not better than anybody musically. I compare Tool to Hanson and the Jonas Brothers.
Tool is actually pretty good, sorry.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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slayer fucking sucks there as bad as metallica
Oceano will definitely be number 1. You heard it here first. xD
If I had to make a (serious) call on whats gonna be number one, I’d say either Ashes of the Wake or Crack the Skye. They’ll both be up there somewhere, but I have no idea what’s gonna take the cake.
…or Blackwater Park or Watershed, I forgot about Opeth for a second.
God, you could fill most of the top ten with just Opeth cd’s. But yea, my guess for top 5 are:
5. Leviathan-Mastodon
4.The Way of All Flesh-Gojira
3. Ashes of the Wake-Lamb of God
2. Blackwater Park-Opeth
Crack the Skye-Mastodon
This isn’t my top 5 personally, but knowing this site I think that guess is as good as any
I am surprised i havent seen any Opeth so far. I think Black Water Park and Ghost Reveries should be in the top ten though.
Pretty good guess, matt… That wouldn’t be my top 5, but it’s a good call nonetheless.
I would put Ghost Reveries in the top five, personally, but it’ll be Blackwater Park that makes the list. Also, expect to see Meshuggah, though with what album I’m not sure. Maybe Obzen, but don’t hold your breath. Nothing seems more likely. I also wouldn’t be shocked if Deicide’s “Stench of Redemption” ended up on the list, but that’s a wild card. In Flames will probably show up, most likely with Clayman.
That’s a few more of my predictions
I feel like From Mars to Sirius would make the list as well.
I feel like everyone is forgetting about a fucking excellent metal album that was released in 2007, that I’m sure will unfortunately not make the list: Type O Negative’s Dead Again. That was my album of the year for 07, and their best to date, I think. And I didn’t jump on a bandwagon, I’ve been listening to them forever, but that album blew me out of my shoes. There’s a whole genre of music (stoner rock) that with a few exceptions (Kyuss….um…..Kyuss) is exclusively devoted to Sabbath worship, but not since sleep has a band pulled it off so well and mixed it with their own unique sound.
finally a good call
And for the most part, all of these obscure bands that you love, have terriible vocalists and contrived lyrics. Metal = heavy music even if it sells millions like Tool does. Metal is music for peoplewho really “get” music.
Shut up. You ‘get’ nothing. Your a fucking loser.
Thanks “ihateyou”
I am a loser who “gets” nothing.
You are right.
Thanks again
-Patrick
Aww. Did I huwwrt your wittle fewwings Patrick? Start listening to something worth listening to. Tool is fucking garbage. They are horrid. Probobly about as bad as it gets. Nothing good about them at all. This site is filled with entry-level metal listeners. No respectable metal fan would listen to tool, it just wouldn’t happen.
“No respectable metal fan would listen to tool, it just wouldn’t happen.” So what you are saying, is that by liking metal and any of its sub-genre’s, one cannot like any other type of music? Wow. That is just as ignorant as the most ignorant of meatheads can get.
Ignore him… he’s just trolling, as usual.
So what DO respectable metal fans listen to? You’re all talk and no cock.
I just truly hope there is some Bathory, Blind Guardian, Iron Maiden, Venom, Carcass, or Death on this list somewhere…
Nevermind, stupid comment. Forgot it was only 21st century….
If the voters are breaking the rules enough to include so many non-metal albums, they might as well break some more rules go to the 90s. At least we might actually have metal albums.
Haha, doubt it. It would end up being some Pantera albums or something.
yeah and Pantera would be bad right? because Pantera suck and their not metal right?
lmfao
Ziltoid kind of has a point. Don’t get me wrong, I love Pantera and cried over Dime’s murder, but their music isn’t exactly thinking man’s material. Not that it has to be or that I would want it to be, but it didn’t require alot of thought. It was something you could jam out to in your car and get the same experience as you would listening on headphone(unlike Tool, Meshuggah, or Opeth).
That being said, Pantera was one of the bands that got me into metal, ever since I heard em on the soundtrack to The Crow.
Yea thats what I said!!! Thanks for clarifying for me!!
Yea, Pantera is metal, they have some catchy shit too, but they are far from one of the best metal bands in the 90s.
HAHA, you’re right. Those albums are pretty much just as bad as the crap already on this list.
Maybe I’m just new to the game, but I don’t understand the beef that metalheads have with Pantera. Can someone explain?
Basically, it’s the dumbed down riffs that pretty much killed 80s thrash (there’s a reason groove metal is sometimes called “half-thrash”), and the utterly “bro-magnon” attitude that Pantera had in their music. They got very popular with this, and many of the worst modern bands were inspired by this (e.g., most of the nu metal bands). Also, although Dimebag was a decent guitarist (at best), most of us are fucking sick of the Kurt Cobain syndrome that followed his death (especially when people drool over the simplicity of songs like “Walk”). In a nutshell, Pantera was incredibly simplistic, stereotypical “tough guy” metal that easily appealed to the masses, while also giving people a bad image of what metal really was.
That might have been the only insightful comment you have posted on this entire site. Lovely.
Gotcha. Thanks man.
Anyone who thinks Tool are not metal have clearly never been in the middle of a Tool moshpit.
You know, Yellowcard has done a wall of death. I guess that makes them metal as well.
Flip…I got served. Wait, how did you know that? Were you there?