Go listen to Chimaira or something. The new album is shitty enough for this site.

I can honestly tell you that I have never derided a band I would have otherwise liked based solely on popularity. I don’t think you’ll believe me however, you’ve already reached a conclusion about exactly what kind of person I am, and nothing I say will stop you from insisting that I’m just another elitist metal punk.

If feeling that a genre should be more strictly defined (despite enjoying artists outside of said genre) makes me narrow minded in your eyes so be it. I don’t listen to music to appease you or anybody else.

And you still have been ambiguous in my so-called hypocrisy. I fail to see how “success has nothing to do with quality” contradicts “quality deserves success”.

Bah, this is stupid though. I don’t even know what your whole point here is. I don’t even know what MY point is anymore, this is going to just continue to drone on forever, so if you don’t mind, I’m going to end this now.

-You failed to come up with a definition of what metal is.

-Your assertion about the influences of “nu metal” is based on a fallacy.
a. few “nu metal” bands would claim FNM and especially JA(or other bands like these) as influences.
b. even if we assume this false assertion of yours to be true. A band’s genre is NOT dependent on it’s influences.

-You didn’t say that every band on the list should be “underground” but you did assert that lesser known bands should be given priority over “bands who’ve already had their fair share of (rather undeserved, but that’s always the case) media circlejerking.”

-So, apparently your subjective view of who does and does not deserve attention is all that matters.

-I never stated that you ONLY dislike bands because they’re popular. But I’d be willing to put large sums of money on a wager that there ARE plenty of bands that you dislike for just that reason. I also notice that the ones that you named are fairly safe from scorn within the “tr00 metal” community.

-As for these “borderline choices” as you call them. Maybe you haven’t noticed that I’ve called out the dipshits who have convinced themselves that bands like SOAD and Deftones aren’t metal on numerous occasions. As I said in my first 2 bullet points. You CAN NOT even define metal in your own subjective way. So, if you can’t even define it when given the chance to do so subjectively, why the fuck should it hold any water when people bitch about certain bands NOT fitting into a genre that no one even seems to have a grasp of???

-As for me being better than you, again, your attempt to state that I’m not better in my views is based on fallacy. Watch…

“I fail to see how your “I want to build homes for the homeless” attitude is any better than the “I want to put the homeless in concentration camps” attitude that you’re mocking,”

See, just because two differing opinions on the same subject may share certain apparent similarities, that does not mean that judgments can not be made as to one having merits over the other.

-I already clearly pointed out how your statements were hypocritical. If you don’t want to be called a hypocrite, don’t make hypocritical statements. If you don’t want to believe my assertion that you were contradicting yourself, more power to you.

-I understood just fine all along.

“but quality does DESERVE success”-This, at least, we can agree on.

Hmm, isn’t that the case with almost anything? You go to a restaurant with good service you may get 5 reviews on how good it is. Go to one with bad service, gets hundreds. Same could go with politics, the guy you dislike is in office..Bitch bitch bitch…The guy you like is in office, its cool…I could list thousands of different examples but I think you get the point. Also, wouldn’t you guys do the same? Let say if a fellow metal site, or a metal magazine reviewed Limp Bizkit as a Godsend to music. There would be an entire page of you bitching about it (which I wouldn’t blame you). Now, lets say if the same magazine they shit all over Limp Bizkit (which they should be). I’m sure we wouldn’t hear about it and if we did…I’m sure the article would be much shorter.

Could we not say you are also a “fucking moron”?

this is going to be a really roundabout way of telling you this, so I’m sorry. Kinda making a solid dictionary-style definition is difficult without somehow getting punk, hardcore, grindcore, etc mixed up in the definition too. I find it easier to think of metal as a lineage, starting with early acts like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and ultimately evolving into thrash, death, black, folk, power, etc.

Nu Metal for example isn’t metal because it doesn’t follow this lineage properly. It’s more of a heavy alternative rock, traceable back to bands like Jane’s Addiction, Faith No More etc. Seeing how it’s more of an offshoot of alternative rock than metal, it’s hard to consider those bands metal bands.

Based on the sound, Tool fits best as a “nu metal” band, and I don’t mean that as an insult (though calling something Nu Metal these days pretty much is insulting it), even though I can’t say I’m a big fan of the band, so don’t take it that way.

First of all, I never once said anywhere in my post that the top 21 should consist entirely of unkowns/lesser known bands, I think it should at least include SOME lesser known bands. To be totally honest, I find it just as asinine to assume that the top 21 metal albums of the century have all apparently been written by ultra-popular acts. As for the bands on the list I’ve complained about, to you honestly find it so hard to imagine that perhaps I simply don’t like these bands? Oh wait, if there’s a popular band I dislike, I only hate them because they’re popular, right?

Have you also considered that maybe people complaining about some of the more borderline choices (slipknot and deftones for example) may be doing so because it’s questionable that these albums are even metal at all to begin with? This is a list of METAL albums right?

Before you give me something about how you’re so much better than me because you don’t just listen to stuff that the metal community considers “tr00″,. or because you’re not afraid to like mainstream acts, maybe I should tell you that I like Darkest Hour, I like Megadeth, I like Frontline Assembly, I like The Dead Kennedys, I could go on. Many bands I like are popular, and many aren’t even metal.

Lastly, don’t call me a hypocrite, you’re putting words into my mouth. Success may have little to do with quality, but quality does DESERVE success. Do you understand now?

And to say that this list should only include unknown/lesser known bands is completely retarded. So, you’re saying that the top 21 metal albums of this century have been written by unknowns???? That’s completely asinine. Your point runs contrary to itself. On one hand, you say that popularity has nothing to do with quality. At the same time, you’re implying that just because something is “underground” it must be better or that it should be promoted above and beyond. You sir, are a hypocrite.

I totally understood the point you were attempting(but failed because you’re a complete tard) to make. Going by what your second post says(which IS entirely different than your first. But let’s not nitpick), it’s okay to like music that’s not metal. It’s just not okay to like music that’s not metal but still call this music metal. Problem here, boy, is that your understanding of what metal is, despite all moronic beliefs otherwise, is severely hampered by your inability to get beyond your own limited intelligence. See, you want to believe that your definition of metal IS the truth. But fact of the matter is, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. These very standards you’ve set up for what “metal” is conflict with the bands that I’m almost positive you would call metal. Fact of the matter is, what “metal” really comes down to for you is, “what metal bands do I, as a complete sheep, need to say that I enjoy in order to be accepted by the rest of the metal herd?”

But I’ll give you a chance here. Prove me wrong. Give me a working definition of what “metal” is that only works for the bands that you consider to be “true metal.”

“Gee, mah. If I point out that he showed me for the moron that I am, it negates the fact.”

Good job with that. Be proud.

And I suppose Ziltoid is a tard for wanting to see less recognized bands make it on a list of bands who’ve already had their fair share of (rather undeserved, but that’s always the case) media circlejerking.

I find it pretty hypocritical that Metalsucks, even after doing their best to promote lesser known bands who totally deserve more recognition (such as Sigh for example) turns around and throws out the “kvlt and tr00″ line. Way to insult every single person who’s ever excitedly clicked a link you guys have posted to a band they might not have known.