JUMPING DARKNESS PARADE: DAATH’S EYAL LEVI ON DANGER AT METAL SHOWS
Thursday, July 9th, 2009 at 3:00pm by Eyal Levi
Any of you who left comments last week telling me about fucked up things you’ve seen at show rule. I’ve always felt that metal shows need to have an element of danger to them or there’s something wrong.
Let me rephrase. Not that there’s something wrong, but there’s something missing. People who talk about how metalheads are well behaved and community oriented are misguided in my opinion. When I was growing up, metal shows were scary. The metal scene from my formative years was one where you needed to always watch your back because of all the different things that could happen to you. It could have been skins jumping you for not being a skin, it could have been sharps jumping you for having long hair, it could have been wall to wall pits where motherfuckers with razor blades were running around cutting motherfuckers. It could have been any number of fucked up things. These weren’t your sanitized for the kids deathcore concerts of today. If you want to know why I say that, I’ll bring up an example from a deathcore tour DAATH had the pleaure of being a part of in 2007.
We got done with our set. This set was a very violent one for us. I’m actually going to tell you guys what happened during the set later in this article, but for the sake of making my point I’m going to continue.
We finished our set and then the house music came on. Blink 182 was playing. The entire crowd started singing along. I couldn’t believe what I was experiencing. At an extreme show kids were singing Blink 182!!! Times have changed. There is nothing dangerous about Blink 182. It says something about the people who are listening to the music. I couldn’t imagine that happening back in the day.
Seeing Morbid Angel or Pantera or Cannibal Corpse back in the early 90s was a scary experience. I haven’t been to a show in a long time that has had the vibe those had. Sadly, I’ve seen more violent pits at hard rock shows than at metal shows recently. I’m not advocating violence or anything like that, but I am saying that I want the music I listen to to come from a real place. Metal is violent music. It should inspire some level of danger and violence. If it doesn’t, then it has failed to get the feeling into the heart of the listener.
That said, during that set I was talking about our old vocalist was throwing water into the crowd. I guess it pissed off some douche bag, who then charged the stage and spat in our singer’s face. Our singer then smashed douche bag’s face with his microphone. Those guys later on thought that our merch dude was our singer and jumped him and broke a bunch of our merch. This took place in West Palm Beach.
See? Florida again. And on the topic of Florida let me tell you about ANOTHER SHOOTING at one of our Florida shows. We were playing in Jacksonville with Cattle Decapitation and Goatwhore in 2006. I was inside the club and I noticed these two girls that were all shaken up and crying. I asked an employee what the fuck had happened, and he told me that some dude tried to shoot them. I went outside and there were two bullet holes in the window next to the club. Apparently some guy tried to rob these girls and ended up trying to shoot them, too. Then he booked it the hell out of there. These girls were so fucking shaken. They snuck out of their house to come to the show. This was their first metal show and their introduction to our great scene was getting shot at. The best part is that the police had to call their parents to let them know what happened. SUUUUCKED for those girls but oh well. Life goes on.
I gotta get some sleep. Six hour drive to Edmonton tomorrow. I’ll rant at you fuckers later!
-EL
Visit Daath on MySpace to get the full itinerary for their summer tour with Goatwhore, Abigail Williams, Abysmal Dawn, and Success Will Write Apocalypse Across the Sky.
Fuck Blink 182.
Same kind of bullshit happens around here too.
You guys should make a concept album about all the inherent dangers of being in a band…like a 50 minute “It’s A Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock And Roll)”
Hey Eyal you failed to mention a band that had more violent shows then all of them, Deicide.
And in this, Eyal, I must respectfully disagree:
(1) Not much of a Blink-182 fan (I understand you were using their cross-over appeal as an example to make a point), but I whole-heartedly support people digging whatever they dig. I can’t care what it is. Seriously. I can’t imagine people listening to different kinds of music being a bad thing; in fact, I’m all about it. But then I’m all about options, so…
(2) No one listens to metal to feel weak, they listen to metal to feel empowered. Recognizing the danger inherent in generalizing, I will venture to say that most people listen to metal because they’ve been hurt before and they reject our culture of victimization, which makes then turning around and victimizing others rank hypocrisy. I need metal to allay my fears of the dangers I face in my everyday life–to help me be strong enough to face them, not add to them.
I don’t expect to be served tea and crumpets when I attend a metal show, but community IS important to me. I may be too small to reach to punch people in the face but I DO bust a mean kneecap, so hardcore dancers who stray out of the pit, BEWARE.
I totally abso-fucking-lutely agree. I’ve only been in the scene a bit over 10 years and even over that course of time things have drastically changed. People don’t get a sense of urgency or danger anymore. There was always an element of fighting, self-policing state and more fighting when I was younger. Maybe that’s just where I grew up.
I haven’t seen an eyeball pop out of anyones head or 1 punk guy take on 12 skins in years. YEARS. If I can’t get crazy at a metal show where the hell am I gonna get crazy at, you know?
If your talking about getting crazy in the kinds of terms that he is? after all you did say that you “abso-fucking-lutely agree”
I would like to hear your personal story about getting razorbladded at a concert, or jumped by skin heads? Well I am guessing you don’t have any so quit trying to sound fucking tough.
If someone cuts me with a razorblade at a concert I am going to follow them home and blow their head off, end of story.
agree completely!… I remember my friend Wes getting stabbed at a Danzig show back in the early 90’s.. also seeing some kid get completely worked over at a Sepultura/Ministry concert at the Bronco Bowl in Dallas around the same time…. Seeing a kid get a full on “American History X” curb stomp outside of a Dying Fetus show in Dallas… That was insane… even Mike Ski from Brother’s Keeper got stabbed at a show too! Things used to be a lot more hectic…
I remember going to concerts and having to fight for my tickets in a Romanesque gladiatorial style battle. Fucking chariots and lions everywhere. Goddamn kids have it too easy these days.
win.
Seriously man.. remember when you’d have to wear full battle armor just because you knew that fucker with the battle axe and the M16 was going to be there AGAIN, and he was going to demand a cigarette from you AGAIN even though you’ve told him repeatedly that you don’t have anymore. And all that happens in line during the sound check!
fuck, guys, you nailed it!
I got total respect for EL but that one was a bit bullshitty…
holy shit. i just spit the fuckin gum outta my mouth. good shit.
I agree with you Eyal about seeing more violent pits at hard rock shows than at metal shows. I remember hearing about someone taking a shit in the back of the pit at a papa roach concert what a shitty band !
It’s a well-known trick in the bar/venue business to play some “Everybody Get The Fuck Out” music when the bands are done. Hence the Blink-182.
After a long night working the bar, I’ll try anything to get everyone to fucking leave so I can go home and go to bed. I’ve already made my money, and there’s a point where making sure everyone else is partying is superceded by need for sleep. I keep a few Backstreet Boys songs on my iTunes for such occasions, and you’d be surprised to see who sings along to that shit too.
Glorifying violence at shows is beyond stupid, and takes away from the music. I’m old and I have to go to work in the morning like a responsible adult, and getting injured at a rock show isn’t conducive to that. Moshing is one thing, I’m not some professional musician who gets to wake up at noon after a night of heavy drinking and drugging, lamenting the downfall of the glory days of mosh pit stabbings and skinhead beatdowns… are you fucking kidding me???
The potential of getting injured by some teenage bag of shit and missing work because of it is the very opposite of fun. I don’t see how ME getting kicked in the head adds to MY enjoyment of the show. I’d be less likely to see a band again if the crowd was insanely violent, even if I’m a fan of that band! So how do you plan on making money off me then? Record sales? HA!
Maybe you should ask Vinnie Paul about violent metal shows. He’s got one story that’s a real doozie…
I like where this guy’s head at. A violent mosh pit is one thing, and if it’s just that it can be lots of fun. Of course you take your chances of bloody noses and other facial injuries but thats just how it goes.
But I am not sure where he is coming from? Does he miss this stuff? “These weren’t your sanitized for the kids deathcore concerts of today” Umm ok…If sanitized concerts mean not getting cut with a razor blade or jumped by skin heads then I am all for it. Oh the glory days oh skin heads…boy do I miss them. No wonder people bring guns to shows.
At least somebody has common sense here. I’d rather just enjoy the damn concert than get injured. Sure, a bit a violence can be fun, but once that detracts from the enjoyment of the show, and more importantly, increases the risk of a severe injury that can really fuck things up for quite awhile afterwards, then it’s too much. This “sanitizing” is a good thing. I was at a Tyr concert recently, and that crowd was perfect. They had a pit, they had some “walls of death,” but nothing more. Everyone enjoyed themselves, stayed safe, and had a great time. All of the stabbing and such is incredibly primitive. Bro-magnons are typically the ones to do this, and nobody likes them.
very true.
like I mentioned to one guy below…
if you don;t want to get hurt- stay out of the pit.
you want some action, go in.
but if not… its all about enjoying the music really.
mmmm
metal
THIS and THAT. Thank you.
Does anyone else imagine Eyal as he is in the Subterfuge video playing the solo, saying all the shit he says on here when you’re reading it?
Man I remember when you guys opened up for DragonForce in Fargo, ND in April, kinda felt bad for you guys since there was only like 8 of us in the crowd trying to rile the place up while Sean was screaming for a circle pit to open up.
Eh, guess that’s what happens when you consider a good percentage of DF’s fanbase are video game nerds, not to mention you were in North Dakota, where everyone’s favorite band is Nickelback…..ugh, fuck this place…
But by all means…
…COME BACK, ANYTIME. I’ll be there. And make sure you bring some heavier bands with you! Although Cynic was fucking kickass too.
\m/
You call today’s shows “sanitized”, but then mention violent events that took place at your recent shows. It’s like you argue against your own point. If the point of the piece was to talk about how shows of yesteryear were so violent and dangerous and now they aren’t, I’m not sure why you are describing violent actions from current or recent shows.
Anyhow..I agree with the idea that violence or an element of danger is necessary, or at least comes with the territory at metal/extreme shows. However, this “danger” should be limited to people that are actually into the music, in the pits, etc. A shooting, or any kind of weapons based violence at a metal show adds absolutely nothing to the experience. Most likely because the people that perpetrated these crimes were not there for the music; violence was their number one objective. The robbery/shooting you mentioned was probably not even committed by someone having anything to do with the show, they were probably just attempting to rob someone in a crowded parking lot; it wouldn’t matter if it was a Garth Brooks show, or Morbid Angel.
As someone else mentioned, if the “sanitizing” you mentioned means keeping weapons out of shows, while allowing the acceptable “danger” or violence (all the pit stuff) so people can enjoy the music, I’m all for it. Unless someone is a complete fool who is at a metal show for the wrong reasons, you won’t hear them say, “Man that show was awesome, I saw two people get stabbed and heard some gunshots in the parking lot!” I have been to hundreds of “extreme” shows, and seen some of what are considered the most violent acts out there, and I have never seen a weapon. I have seen ridiculous fights, gang-style beatings and stomp-outs. brawls, etc. bur no guns, knives, bats or razorblades…and I can’t say that not seeing these things took away from the performances or overall show experience, in the least. I don’t know how or why anyone would “miss” such things, or feel nostalgic about pointless violence (especially involving weapons).
I’m glad to see some level headed responses in here. I think maybe Eyal is just tired and didn’t care to better clarify his point.
Maybe he wishes there were more crazy pits like back in the day when he’s up there playing. Seeing a ton of people go crazy during your set is probably a nice ego boost but it’s a fad like any other. As metal heads age they don’t care to interact with the band that way as much.
The taboo surrounding metal is pretty much gone these days too so kids getting into it now really aren’t rebelling so much and don’t need that sense of danger as validation. And as for any adult that needs that sense of danger I feel sorry for them because they must be leading pretty repressed, unfulfilled lives. I don’t think these are the people most metal bands write music for. I don’t have steam to blow off in the pit, I’m a happy guy, that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy music, be it angry music or whatever.
The interview MS just posted with Devin Townsend provided some perspective. Basically Devin just says that musicians tend to take their music too seriously. “It’s just entertainment folks!”
another quick point…
It could also be the case that those adults who do need a sense of danger when they go to shows could be the ones who have seen and done, are jaded as a result, and need a little fear to get them excited.
…seen and done it all….
SEE ME AT A SHOW AND I’LL BUST YOUR FUCKING HEAD -DARWINIST STYLE. NO-ONE FUCKS WITH THE DAWKSTER IN THE PIT! BOOYAH!
…And if anyone were still wondering whether or not the neo-Neanderthal set have representation on MetalSucks.net, the above is proof positive: Yes, indeed they do.
And I would have gotten stabbed and shot a few times, if it weren’t for you meddling scene kids!
The most violence I have seen at a show was when the following bands played at a VFW Hall (far too small considering the popularity of the bands), probably around 2001 …from openers to headliners: Sworn Enemy, God Forbid, Shadows Fall, Converge, Hatebreed..a pretty damn decent lineup if you like hardcore; and a lineup you are unlikely to see again, unless the show is in a huge arena. My friend booked the show and said there were like 12 accident reports, there was a brawl every 10 minutes or so; every time I turned around I saw someone with what looked like a broken nose. And I must say that this did not make the show better at all…all it did was slow things down (bands stopped at some points to hopefully quell some of the violence), and cause portions of the crowd to be disgruntled and unhappy.
In my experience,. when striclty hardcore crowds are mixed with strictly old-school metal heads, these are the most violent shows. I believe that this is the case because some of the metal heads don’t necessarily understand the hardcore kids and how they act/respond to the music in the pits, and vice versa. Some crusty old dude in leather who is at a show strictly to see Slayer will not be happy if he receives a spin kick from a kid that is used to going to hardcore shows, where this is acceptable, or at least tolerated and understood. This type of crowd mixing seemed to occur more and more as hardcore bands added more metallic elements to their music (”metalcore”), hence they got booked with more traditional metal bands. I think these types of heterogeneous crowds are not as common anymore, as the styles have meshed/crossed-over more and more, and there are so many folks that are into both styles.
I guess I should clarify something…
I don’t like the violence at shows. I was mainly saying that there’s a vibe missing from the old days where EVERY SINGLE SHOW was dangerous. Just going to a show spiked your adrenaline. Not saying I think its cool.
Also, it may sound like I’m contradicting myself by pointing out a violent example, but that’s all I’m dong, pointing out a violent example which is really an exception. Having played hundreds of shows and been to more than I can count the violence these days stands out because its so rare. Rare enough for me to note it and write about it.
And Blink 182 wasn’t exit music. It was house music in between bands. We were playing 2nd out of five that night.
Eyal, what’s up bro? I’m gonna blog about it on myspace this weekend, and it will come up in my review for Hails and Horns, but at Maryland Deathfest, i almost got trampled during Mayhem’s set…at the beginning of the set. I was in the photo pit, the barricade collapsed, i was pinned down, and briefly trampled underneath….seriously feared for my life. Pulled shoulder tendon still remains, which sucks, but hey, i didn’t die, and i have a cool Mayhem war story to tell.
And yes, sir, it’s not that violence is cool, but extreme metal should have an element of danger to it. My kind of metal is not crooked hat goons playing downtuned pseudo death metal while Blink 182 plays afterwards.
In a nutshell, there needs to be more 666 in my metal, and more jack in my coke, and more coke in my nose.
Jay H. Gorania
Definitely the best point made so far. Out there, Extreme Violence .Abstract Hatred, Brutality and Darkness. Isent this just about 99% of what Metal and essentially its extremes are about? The music and its vision should essential be played out in some way.
someones actual life should always be preserved though. Violent acts in the form of Stabbings and gang related acts should of course always be prevented.
Fuck Florida!
Okay, the thing that pisses me off about todays show is the pit action. I cannot stand you dumb fukin kids thinking you rule the pit, with your ninja bullshit, whenever I see this happen, I charge the fuck out of you and knock you on your ninja ass. And the ninja pitters get mad when an old school pitter, old school pits. That is the only way to pit in my book. I love it when you ninja bithces go down, and love it even more when im the one that takes you down. “Im pitting but don’t hit me” ” it hurts when you hit me in the pit” wah fukin wah, go to the back and do that stupid bullshit.
Jerry,
I concur.
If I wish to simply listen to the music – i’ll stay out of the pit.
If I’m aiming to get some “pit-action” I’ll go in.
(I’m 26 btw… no idea how old you are… but I guess I’m in between? hehe)
I hate metalcore kids in metal shows.
ok..no i dont hate them… I just can’t stand them “slam dancing” when there should be a pit of doom sucking those kids in…
egh!
well with all this being said i’m a 17 year old that listens to metal
i try to go to any show i can whether it be big or small
i’ve never been to an old school pantera or cannibal corpse show and come from a generation that has to see them at mayhemfest
the sad truth is that concerts these days aren’t as good as they used to be
I’v talked to people that saw pantera,cannibal corpse, metallica etc. way back in the day
anytime i’d talk about something sweet happening at a concert i’d have one of those people go
“dude that aint shit people used to have weapons in the pit and shit”
or off the topic of metal and way far back in the day
think of concerts in the 60’s and 70’s
(yeah there wern’t pits and this has nothing to with metal)
even then there were joints lit all over te fucking place
for me it’s simple why concerts are much milder nowadays
nowadays there is security left or right shining there little flashlights on any bit of smoke they see
on top of it there’s never a show abscent of metal detectors
many venues have abandoned the general admission floor and traded it it for seats (which generate more profit)
and on top of it almost any show is managed by an entertainment company ie; livenation
in which being a company will do anything in its power to escape lawsuits
or even at small local club
in cleveland a great example would be peabodys
regularly shows are shut down by the fire marshall police etc. for overcrowding
the fact of the matter is that of all the security they have employed
if the cops show up and a minor is drinking, some one’s smoking a joint,a fight occurs
its security’s fault and up to the whole crew can be fired
Just because metal can have an extreme/violent sound doesn’t mean people should act violent at shows or try to hurt people. That’s some fucked up logic, people should go to a show to enjoy music not to pummel each other. And the Blink182 comment sounded more elitist than anything else. Lame article.
It is fucked up logic…if people acted on whatever emotions the music conveyed, there’d be a lot more gay sex at Motionless In White shows
My POV: 17 yr old girl, 5′4”, 110lbs 1990s kid. It’s odd that the music that grants the safety of intense energy can also hurt them beyond reason should they ever want to see it “live”. First off, its music: that’s what I came for. Still, as Corey Taylor mentioned, I too would rather see someone working some stress out in the pit than busting a Columbine.
Being right in front of the stage I gladly accept bumrushing, a few elbows, having beer thrown on me, and the smelly pit next to my face of the guy holding devil horns up to maintain that spot. I respect those holding up the walls of a pit because theyre protecting me from what I cant handle. Even then, I still have to take an army of guy friends. But theres sometimes a violation of the first rule I learned: Entering the pit is consent, staying out is to say “no thanks” (or in my case a wuss, or ….. a girl).
Some guy went out of his way to pull others into the pit. That’s how I found out what “the wall” was. I could have lived without the”oh shit” moment where 6 ft guys beat on me as I run like hell and the worst part is i hit the ground (i know thats a big NO to staying alive in a pit) and from stomping had an injury to my neck. At this same concert, my friend was sliced with a razorblade, got stitches, and a nasty puss overflowing infection. Can you alcohol those things off first?
If someone is obviously doing their best to avoid danger, why should they have to be exposed to it? Metal is like an adrenaline sport, but does it need to be potentially life threatening? I find that bleeding out the ears really does fuck up the sound quality.
Security is getting tighter and sometimes a joykill. As much as I hate them trying to ban stud belts, I do approve of them taking away the brass knuckles that concussed me at the VR concert. Doing my best to stay away from anyone who wants to sacrifice me, beat me up, throw me in the pit, molest me, or anything else that really kills my good time at a concert and I still get wacked on the head. Whats a girl to do? I think I would have appreciated the concussion if it had happened during the actual song “dechristianze” and not the intro music. (Getting whacked while a choir sings. I feel very Brave Heart over the whole thing …just “Hold!!!!” )
Boys, if you cant get the steam out with your bare fists, could you please take it outside? Aside from wanting to stay intact, I do worry about your intent; reason being that weapons are designed to more effectively kill someone. Unless its paper targets or in the UFC ring, I don’t see how taking weapons in the pit is fair sport.
I will say though, I am satisfied with some of the older metalheads self policing. I appreciate you pulling some of those guys beating on me to the side and knocking them out. And for the general kindness of see the stage by letting me stand in front of you.
metal is passionate. powerful.
so much it makes people violent or over emotional
the adrenaline rush… the senses awaken
a soul that sucks what is being said…
it’s being alert.
i love metal!
the rush, the sweat, the pulsing, the head banging, the bruises… the hair…
the fear of being stomped… the rush of stomping…