THE HARD R: DALLAS COYLE ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS, PART 3
Monday, August 17th, 2009 at 5:00pm by Dallas Coyle
Let’s start this off by saying I most likely WILL NOT listen to your band. When you post your link to your band I will ignore it. Unless you have some amazing pitch as to why I should listen to your music. If you’re my friend on Facebook I will listen to your shit. Otherwise, don’t post links in the comments section for me to hear. Right now, this blog is to answer serious questions. Not pipe dreams about me passing on your amazing music to a record label. Most of them are on a signing freeze anyway. I understand the need to post your link in the comments for people to check out your band. Knock yourself out. Just don’t expect me to give my two cents.
OK, now that we got that out of the way, I wanted to turn you guys on to some new music I’ve been rocking… drum roll… Eryn Non Dae from France.
I found out about these fucks through this site. I’ll tell you, this shit is great. I listened to it three times in one day. It’s like Neurosis, Meshuggah, and Coalesce. I’m loving it. My new project will definitely be borrowing some of their ideas.
The new Behemoth. Nuff said. It’s Behemoth. The whole album kicks ass. Also, Colin Richardson killed on the mix. It sounds amazing and ferocious.
The new Burnt By The Sun is bad ass. The song “There Will Be Blood” is great. Yes, it takes the title from a popular movie but the song is so bad ass it doesn’t matter. Note to self, if you’re going to take a familiar title for your song, make sure the song is as good as Burnt By The Sun’s “There Will Be Blood.”
Poison The Well’s new stuff sounds great. I like Poison The Well a lot. Always have since Opposite Of December. Their use of the slide on their new material is pretty cool considering the genre. They are pushing the boundaries.
Onto the new guilty pleasure… I used to talk shit about this band when I was in God Forbid. I don’t feel bad about it ’cause I was on my high horse, but… I think Bring Me The Horizon’s new record is pretty cool. I don’t know why I like it so much but I do like it. And that is a good thing to not know exactly why I like something.
If you want to ask a question that doesn’t involve me listening to your music, leave it in the comments section. I will check it. If the questions are good like the ones below, I’ll answer them. Also, funny questions work too!
On to the motherfucking questions:
@Shinaain
“You’ve written at length about how the metal business has changed drastically in the last few years. I started sneaking into clubs when I was 13-years-old to see whoever was playing on any given night. Most of them had nothing to lose and everything to gain, so they threw it down like it really meant something. All these years later, that’s still the truth I understand. Many of my favorite bands I was initially exposed to by going to see who was playing the local scene on any given night and/or demos sold out of the back of a van. Nowadays, I add any of those bands who are still together (and a few more who later made it big) or the newer bands on my radar to my friends list and I’m nearly instantaneously inundated with add requests from bands whose pages present very little music content and no tour dates. A lot of them use my favorite band’s pages as their personal bulletin boards (obnoxious). I find this paradigm shift to be confusing and slightly disheartening. I’m predisposed to value live performance over the recorded track. My music collection is highly valuable to me, but in my opinion everything comes out in the wash live and that’s what really counts. Road-dogging being the metal standard nearly from the beginning, I don’t feel that’s unreasonable on my part. And maybe it IS a misconception on my part, but I DO perceive that many of the newer generation of bands have a “get-made” work ethic, like American Idol for the metal industry or something — the expectation being that the social networking sites will do it all for them, therefore nullifying the need for getting out there and throwing it all down live.
“I understand that touring is expensive, usually uncomfortable (I’m sure you slept in the van enough nights back in the day to attest to that), and often dangerous, but all the same, nothing replaces the vitality and immediacy of a capably performed live show; which, I attest, is still the definitive litmus test for our genre. I’m interested to hear your thoughts on this.”
This is a very cool and dense observation. You hit on a lot of points here. First and foremost, yes, touring is still the litmus test for this genre. But in all honesty, touring is the litmus test for any band in any genre. Case in point, I was listening to an easy listening station the other day and they had a live performance by Rick Springfield. Yes, Rick Springfield. But guess what. Rick Springfield sounded amazing and he impressed the shit out of me. He’s a pro. And actually, it’s much harder to be that good on radio. So bands definitely need to have their shit together when they play live. And the crazy thing is, being a new band, you HAVE to tour to get that live show together. Live show is more than banging your head in unison. It’s about vibe. And as a band who writes as a unit, you have to work these things out by playing all the time. Which costs TONS of money. These days money ain’t around.
The situation changes when you have a group like Marilyn Manson or NIN. Those bands are fronted by the personality that drives the project, so the focus is mainly on them. It’s easier in a situation like that to kick ass live because, being a singular entity, the audience expects something different from the band. Remember, the live show depends as much on the audience as it does on the band. If the audience is on your side then your job is easier. If it’s not, you’re fucked.
As far as bands spamming your Myspace, this is one reason why the Internet is absolutely necessary in the music and film genres in the times we live in. Now that we have access to everything all of the time, people are getting smarter, there’s more to ingest and there’s more ways to get out there. There are more bands who are OK. Rather than just shitty.
This is why I laugh at the labels when they blame Internet downloading for shitty sales. Yes, it hurts a lot but at the same time without the downloading it’s very unfair for the customer. Back in ‘98 when the Internet wasn’t prominent, word of mouth was the way you found out about bands. I spent 30 bucks a week on CDs. Now you hear about three bands a fucking day. No one is going to drop that type of cash on a whim.
I will say one thing though. Most bands that are great these days usually get noticed in a way that is kind of like the old days. The avenues are different. Take me discovering Eryn Non Dae for example. I found them through Metalsucks. To cut down on your spam from bands, limit your avenues of exposure to friends’ opinions you trust and the sites you trust. Also, go to a live show where you don’t know any bands. It’s easier spending twelve bucks for five bands playing live rather than sixty bucks for five CDs you may not like.
@Ste
“Hey Dallas, congrats for this blog, it’s very well done and I’m sure lots of people are digging it. I sing in a death metal band from Europe. We’re signed and soon we’ll hit the studio to record our second album. Bad thing is we won’t have a budget big enough to record with a good name and pay for a tour (yeah,in Europe u have to pay for touring,ridiculous isn’t it?!). Do you think it’s better to save a bit on the recordings or try to get the best sounding album and keep on using the DIY touring ethic we’ve used to tour Europe in support of our first record? Thanks!”
Thanks for the props on the blog. Listen man, you have to record your album with what you have. A lot of times the tension of the deadline can make its way onto the record in a good way. As long as you don’t fall apart as a band in the studio, the money problem can work to your advantage. Also, people like raw sounds when a band is new. Our first record was done in ten days over a six month period (Although we did work with a big name producer). It was tough but it got us signed. Also, in the situation of a tight budget you don’t have time to over-think things, which can kill a good vibe. Just go for it with what you got. Shit, you could be in a situation where no one is vouching for you at all and you can’t get a tour to save your life.
@GoPens!
“Are guitar techs a luxury or a necessity on the road? Thanks.”
If you’re Slayer it’s a necessity. If you’re the brand new band on Metal Blade getting paid 100 bucks a night eating shitty pizza and drinking shitty beer every night, it’s a luxury.
@metalguy
“Whats your opinion on toon porn?”
It got your dick hard when you were thirteen years old. Urotskidoji, what! (if you know Urotskidoji, I’ll listen to your shitty band) Here’s to hard nipples!
@Matthew Stacy
“What advice would you give to a guitarist who started at 16 and a half but is now 18 and finally starting to take this thing very seriously. I finally started practicing like I should and taking some theory lessons and would like to be in a metal band that might even possibly get signed someday. Is it too late to start taking this thing serious? Any advice?”
Me, Doc, Byron and Corey started jamming two years after I started playing. We played covers and wrote originals. We sucked in the beginning. We got signed four years later. No, it’s not too late. You have to get some musicians together and start the band. Theory isn’t going to teach you how to deal with an asshole in the band. Theory isn’t going to teach you how to network. It also isn’t going to teach you how to find your sound as a band. Get some niggas or niggettes together, get in a rehearsal space and stop fucking around. By the way, you make me feel old… 18 is when you start this business. 28 is when you’re spit out. Then you have to find a real fucking job. I’m older than both. Thanks a lot, bud, for making me feel like Ed McMahon.
I’m not gonna click on your shitty band link, man. And fuck you for liking Bring Me The Horizon, I guess you’ll be BFF with Oli Sykes now, eh? Also, there is a grindcore band named Urotskidoji.
I’d prefer if you didn’t pose as me. It’s obvious that you don’t have the little icon thingy that I have.
Out of curiosity… how the fuck did you manage to get the icon thingy, anyway? I’ve looked all over the dashboard and can’t find the option.
I had a wordpress blog ages ago that I’ve deleted. I forget how to do it now, since I don’t blog anymore, but apparently, wordpress keep accounts active even if the blogs are deleted, and this must have ben my icon.
Ah… I just figured they rewarded you for bringing so much joy to their site.
For the avatar question, well the answer is right on top of the comments section.
“Create your own custom Avatar at Gravatar.com!”
Looks this site uses Gravatar, which once set up, as long as you use the same email address will link to your avatar.
Have Fun
I never used Gravatar, but if that works, then go for it. But the email address definitely matters.
You’d think the recently unemployed would have nothing better to do than listen to new music…
Sorry man, but you come off as a major dick in that first rant
Why do you think he calls it the Hard R? If he gave an opinion on one band, he’d have to do so for all other too or further risk seeming like a dick in being selective in who he listens to. Just can’t fucking win.
Anyways, Dallas, here’s my question. I’m leaving it rather open ended for an open ended answer in return. Where do you see the genre of metal headed into the future? As it has become extremely more marketable in the past decade, do you see this as a legitimate surge for the genre (i.e. the general public could actually give it a go and hang on with it) or nothing more than a very large arcing trend greatly aided by the internet and accelerated grassroots efforts? Yes, metal always has and always will be primarily an underground phenomenon but I’m focusing on the marketability of the genre to the general public and the mass media. Do you see any long-lasting value in it for the big bands of today besides their immediate success? Is this ultimately a good thing for metal? Bad?
A quick addendum!
What do you see our generation’s metal legacy being for the next 20, 30, 40 years?
Don’t get butt hurt. I don’t have the time to listen to every band that’s posted on here. Sue me. What the fuck?
Reminds me of what I wrote about last week
How many fucking demos do you think people have time to listen to?
obviously as a professional musician working 12 plus hours a day, a milion bjillion. because instead of making music, you should be sitting on the internet all day, listening to generic metal bands that you could really give a toss about.
LOL that’s why it took him 20 days between articles this time instead of 4 between the one before that. Some of you fucking people are so fucking beyond braindead. Please stop sharing your puerile opinions.
And you’re an ignorant fuck. How someone chooses to spend their time and decide upon the frequency of their blogging is nobody’s business but their own. Stop trying to read in between so many lines and save your blanket judgments for someone else. The only person you’re helping to spur along an image of imbecility is your own.
i suppose you’d rather hear him blog every time he had a HELLA RIGHTEOUS JOINT or some shit like that? if the frequency that he blogs isn’t enough for you, might i suggest you point your browser over to twitter? there are plenty of people blogging about what they had for breakfast over there.
BROS JUST TOOK THE BEST MEAT SHIT EVER. WILL POST PHOTOS LATER. 17 minutes ago from web
“I found out about these fucks through this site. I’ll tell you, this shit is great. I listened to it three times in one day. It’s like Neurosis, Meshuggah, and Coalesce. I’m loving it. My new project will definitely be borrowing some of their ideas.”
What a shock. A former member of God Forbid, one of the least original, average metal, then average metalcore, then average Opeth -sounding metal band on the planet is going to “borrow ideas” from another band doing their own thing that has an in sound at the moment. Makes me wonder why you WON’T listen to new bands who link you up, you’d just have more material to “borrow” and less to “create”
Jaime,
You obviously are not a musician. So stop talking shit. If you knew anything about music, ANYTHING, you’d know that everybody borrows ideas. Miles Davis said, “Good musicians borrow, great musicians steal…” Oh wait, Miles Davis? he’s just average.
You’re a douche bag.
miles davis is god
if peeing your pants is cool, consider me miles davis
Earthsblood doesn’t sound anything like Opeth, and their earlier stuff didn’t sound like Killswitch Engage. If you’re an engineer, and you can’t tell the difference, well… I feel bad for whomever works with you.
I love Earthsblood and I don’t think this as a negative but there are some VERY Opeth
sounding momments on that record. I noticed it the most on the first track, and the title track.
Furthermore I HIGHLY doubt becoming a sound engineer would cause me to somehow
not notice that anymore.
wow jaime is such a fucking douche bag lol
dude you need to get a fucking life
God Forbid are far from average or unoriginal
btw Eryn Non Dae are pretty sick I found out about them through here also
what is you favorite tv show?
Right Dallas, strong argument back, calling me a douche bag. for your info, i’m a musician and sound engineer.
FIRST off, it was Stravinsky, not miles davis who made that infamous quote, so, that immediately marks you as not knowing what you’re talking about.
Secondly, there is an argument for being influenced, but not one for following every musical trend in the metal scene hoping you can ride KSE, then Opeth’s tailcoats to better album sales. Have an original thought for Christ’s sake.
And calling a douche bag, a place to go when you have no further reasonable arguments to present? Or is it because what i said cuts a little too close to the truth and you’re sensitive about it? Maybe it’s because you obviously can’t take criticism to either your music or your opinions here on your blog (the one you should get down on your knees and thank vince and axl for letting you write, because it’s the only thing keeping you REMOTELY relevant in this scene now). Yea, I think that’s it. Let’s see, can you make a reasoned response back without reaching out to childish name calling?
Maybe DEFEND why your band suddenly sounded like KSE when that was the hot sound, and now your last effort prior to you leaving GF sounded just like Opeth, bc the proggy sound is in now? And now you’re going to “borrow” from a band that sounds like Neurosis, bc sounding like Neurosis and Isis is the in thing?
You know, have some sort of back and forth? Or, just call me a douche bag, whatever works for you.
oh, finally, an actual quote from Miles Davis: “I’m always thinking about creating. My future starts when I wake up every morning… Every day I find something creative to do with my life. “
douche ; ]
You fire the first shot by accusing Dallas of plagiarism, yet you turn around and and want “some sort of back and forth” because he fired back?
You set the tone, so deal with it.
First off, there is a difference between stealing someone’s riffs note for note and just being unoriginal. I didn’t accuse Dallas of stealing anyone’s riffs or chord progressions. I’m just saying GF is far from an original sounding band, and flaunting “borrowing ideas” from other bands that are up and coming is not only artistically dubious, it makes for boring music, regardless of how many times Dallas misquotes Miles Davis.
Not to be a dick or anything, but just adding singing to metal doesn’t automatically make you a KSE clone. And I don’t hear Opeth on Earthsblood (which is a killer album, Dallas). I hear some good musicianship.
Also, even if Axl and Vince didn’t let him write, I’m sure he can find a place to write; it is the internet, and anyone can get a blog
No, but the sole reason you added clean vocals to your band after years of not having them, after witness KSE BLOW UP with alive or just breathing, and suddenly they follow the “verse yelly/chorus pretty” formula, it is more than suspect they didn’t do it because it happened organically during writing that album.
Come on, Jaime. Really? I called you a douchebag because you are acting like one. If it looks and sounds like a duck, it’s a duck. For your supposed ‘we changed with the fad bullshit” comment… how did we happen to get signed? Off Reject The Sickness. Deathcore before there was deathcore. We went through massive changes but they were organic. And for your information Arch Enemy’s Wages Of Sin influenced Gone Forever (the singing album) more than any bands you mention. We wanted to write SONGS. You hear me, engineer? Songs. Killswitch didn’t invent song structure or singing for, that matter. We never said we weren’t influenced by LOG, KSE, Dillinger, Deadguy, For The Love Of…, Suffocation, The Haunted, Soilwork, Mayhem, Emperor, but we always had a different spin. Get my point, engineer? For your fucking information, the LOG guys loved Determination and wanted to make ATPB (thats As The Palaces Burn if you didn’t know) more extreme and thrashy. Are they ‘unoriginal’ because that record had an influence on their playing? You may be a musician and ENGINEER, but you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. All I’m seeing is someone who couldn’t get to the big game and now wants to “unearth” the big conspiracy about Dallas Coyle and God Forbid. Give me a fucking break.
You don’t want this conversation, engineer. I’m in a bad fucking mood and I can go ALL night. Also, I heard the three song demo of Alive Or Just Breathing before you even knew who Killswitch was. The funny thing about God Forbid: We got huge tours consistently. How do you think that was?
Cause the BANDS liked our shit. We didn’t have money to throw around. We had CRED in the industry and it came from our fucking music. So go and talk your bullshit ‘unoriginal’ conversation somewhere else. And guess what… The only original music out there is garbage music and shitty local bands. Original music doesn’t exist anymore. Use a better word: Unique.
Bring some of this knowledge to your sound career and maybe you’ll get a leg up.
It’s also amazing how you took one comment I made about borrowing ideas and didn’t even look at the content of the blog. I’m here helping people get information about the business cause I lived it for ten fucking years.
I changed the style of the blog to stay off of Blabbermouth. So how is it I’m still trying to be relevant? You should reword it. I AM RELEVENT. You will see. I’m sick of motherfuckers like you who act like they see behind the scenes when all you see is your own weakness.
Go accomplish something and post it on this board. I PROMISE I’ll listen to it. I promise I’ll be fair.
Me and Doc in God Forbid did amazing guitar work and wrote good songs that people remember. To The Fallen Hero has over 250,000 views on YouTube. The myspace page has over a million views. Think about it this way. Your one in a million.
Go do something. Post it. And I’ll judge YOU.
You made my point Dallas,
“but we always had a different spin”
All you did was take what was working at the time and try to put a spin on it. Bands like your shit because you sounds just like them, GF made themselves by opening for bands that paved the way for sounds you’d follow when they were the “it” sound in the scene. Dragging LOG into it like they are some sort of sacred cow is lost on me, as I think they’re overrated (I actually think higher of your former band, at least you sounded like other, better bands than them)
I’m not “unearthing” any sort of conspiracy, nor do i pretend to be. I think your former band was/is derivative of the scene at the moment. You got popular and landed opening spots for better bands because you sounded like them. Always opening for KSE, LOG, and Shadow’s Fall, because GF is a competent but unoriginal band that fit into that sound.
FYI, I knew who KSE was LONG before Alive of Just breathing came out, was spinning them when they just had their self titled on Ferret, and had that roadrunner sampler with the three demo’s on it just like you did, along with the demo’s to Chimaira s then forthcoming Pass out of existence.
And, Lastly, unique and original are synonyms, so it’s irrelevant if I say original or you say unique. They mean the same thing.
Also, your opinion that “original” music no longer exists is evident, you have no desire to create original music, and it shows. Get my point, guitarist? It’s irrelevant how many people view your videos on youtube, plenty of people like shitty music as is testified by how many views bands like Attack Attack get, so don’t play the “we must be good b/c people watch us” game, isn’t that right, guitarist?
I guess Tool, Meshuggah, Devin Townsend, Neurosis, Agalloch, Gojira, Mastodon, Porcupine Tree, Origin, and Cynic to name just a few in this genre don’t exist? or are they just not “unique”
The fact is, your former band will be viewed just like bands like Overkill; just not as good as the others you sound like. And sorry to burst your bubble, were it not for this blog and the traffic MS gets, you wouldn’t be relevant, you wouldn’t have exposure, and you’d be back in GF within a year.
As for the “sounds like a duck” comment, fine, that’s fair, then don’t get offended when I call everything you’ve done derivative and boring. Kids aren’t picking up guitar to learn that new GF riff, because they are already learning “unique” music.
I don’t act like i see behind the scenes, guitarist, I have seen and see behind them. Are you really so self centered to think your view of this little corner of the recording industry is the only one to be seen? That because you spent 10 years touring you somehow have experience no one else anywhere has? Is it because you need to feel superior to others now that you’re not in a touring band?
I don’t mean to burst your bubble but you’re not dealing with a guy who likes to ’shred’. Or the guy who wants to watch kids headbang. I’m way more than that. And your way of mocking me, engineer, just falls flat because you don’t get it.
Look at a song like Bat The Angels off of Earthsblood. Or Gaia. The songs I’ve written. Listen to those songs and you tell me the arrangements, the melodies aren’t unique. But guess what, I will give you one thing, I felt diluted in GF. You are majorly wrong about one thing though. I will NEVER go back to GF because that was the past. I look to the future.
Your idea of who I am is only framed by who I was in God Forbid. And you use that to make your point. That’s fine. But you have no idea of what I’m capable of. You have no clue as to what I’ve been doing.
Here’s the deal. Please do not post what I’m about to give you on Blabbermouth. I don’t want people knowing about it at all. It’s demos. I don’t want it for the public consumption. Its not ready for them. But for you, since you are an engineer, can get what you need out of it. My life is too busy.
For your listening pleasure. Music that’s ALL ME. No one else. So if you want to judge me. Do it by this. This is what I’m up to now.
My new project: Demos
http://www.myspace.com/soulatwarband
my film score work and random stuff:
http://coylemedia.ning.com/
God Forbid isn’t who I am. It’s what I did. Let’s get that straight.
I just want to say that I see an awful lot of talk here, but I only see one of the sides actually walking the walk, posting links to their music. I mean, if you’re so good at identifying other people’s weaknesses, one can only assume you’re using all that vast knowledge to come up with some kick ass music of your own right? So where is it?
If you at least played and instrument, you wouldn’t go around talking trash like that. It is that simple.
I’m a producer, guitarrist and a songwritter and I don’t think you’ll ever see me talking like that. And I’m not saying I’m big shit ’cause of that either.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinions but even if you were James Fucking Hetfield those comments wouldn’t speak too highly of you, and when you don’t even play an instrument,well, you just end up looking like a fool.
just saying
Have you ever listened to God Forbid? Like more than a song or two per album? They don’t sound much like KSE, nor did they ever. I’m assuming that you mean during Gone Forever (somewhat)/Constitution of Treason era they “suddenly sounded like KSE” because they incorporated some clean vocals, but that’s a pretty weak argument/assumption. I’m sure they made that change because they wanted to experiment and thought it sounded good, not because they wanted to hop aboard KSE’s success train. And Earthsblood may have a BIT of prog influence, but calling it similar to Opeth? What planet are you from? Go listen to GF’s catalog (and perhaps KSE’s and Opeth’s since you seem to be struggling with these misguided comparisons) a few more times before you bash real musicians that you have some unfounded jealousy/hatred toward.:/
Man, I haven’t heard about Urotsukidoji in years. Kinda funny in retrospective. Damn, I’m not part of a shitty band for you to listen to.
Fuck yeah, Urotsuikidoji is fuckin hardcore. NOW I HAVE YOUR BLOOD & YOUR SPERM. Hardcore.
Yeah, it’s off the Testament album Low. I listened to it this morning – always coffee and metal to wake me up and start the day off correctly. I’m not part of a shitty band, either.
Dallas-
I figure if anyone will know how to address this, it’s someone who has seen the industry for years, and dealt with a lot of shit, so I trust your advice on this one. I play in a metal band that has been together for a few years now. We’ve recorded, played shows, made great friends, and all in all are having a blast doing what we do. However, we recently brought in an additional guitarist, who as talented as he is, is causing friction within the ranks. He’s caused some trouble at clubs, and irritated a lot of people we’re involved with. What’s the easiest way to deal with this without imploding or coming off like total bastards? Thanx!
fire him. end of story.
+100.
+1000. Good guitarists are a dime a dozen. You can learn to play better, but personalities are hard coded. Fuck him off.
Your in a tight spot Gecko, but you know what you need to do. Fire that guy. Being in a band is way to much work to deal with some douche who is just gonna fuck it up for you. It’s important that everyone gets along.
Gecko, to reiterate what the others said, give the dude the pink slip. I was in the exact same position about 2 and a half years ago, and it was the best decision my band at the time ever made. You don’t want to have drama with your core band mates, and especially don’t want to sour relationships with clubs and other bands. Once you get a bad rep, it’s kinda hard to shake.
wow, ste, no shit? In europe you have to PAY to tour? With your OWN money? UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Kids today. There once was a little thing called DIY. I guess we need a refresher course.
What is wrong with everyone liking this Eryn Non Dae band? THE VOCALIST IS COPYING JENS KIDMAN FROM MESHUGGAH. EXACTLY COPYING HIM. HE IS 100% U N O R I G I N A L.
Am I the only one who can recognize that they took nearly half of their style directly from another band? According to the reaction to this band, is this now ok to do?
And that comment about borrowing ideas is very lame. Before you know it, the new Dallas Coyle project will be a metal cover band.
Eryn Non Dae is highly meshuggah influenced. But meshuggah set a standard. So when a standard is set you follow it because you know it works. It’s dumb not to. As far as my lame borrowing ideas comment, how do you learn how to draw? How do you learn how to write. Tracing. Repetition. That’s how you ‘develop’ a style. Its one reason why most musicians and bands don’t make it. They don’t learn the fundamentals.
I see where you’re coming from but you should look at it from another angle.
this comment enlightened me. i was confused on where to draw the line between being “influenced” as opposed to just being ripoffs, like how to approach new bands borrowing a style a band developed. i mean, people copied the thrash sound, the heavy metal sound, etc. before, didn’t they? i don’t think those same bands who are still around now can be called ripoffs.
i mean, if you put your own spin on it, then it’s ok right, even though it’s a relatively newer style (like meshuggah’s). nobody calls for ripping of metallica or slayer, right?
correction: “nobody calls ______ (random band) for ripping off…”
This is actually a very interesting post on Dallas’ part. One on end, everybody has influences, and influences are inspiration, so obviously the influence’s style may show up in a newer band’s work. The point about repetition and tracing is also spot on–you need material to practice with and to help you develop your own style.
But on the other hand, what separates the average from the great is evolving to the point where you have escaped your influences and developed your own style. Meshuggah is an absolutely perfect example. Contradictions Collapse had some very obvious influences, but even in that, Meshuggah tried to be a bit different. They took that a giant leap further on DEI and Chaosphere, and at that point, they literally evolved away from their influences. Another example would be Gorguts, who eventually mutated the old school death metal sound into something completely their own (especially on Obscura).
So, the tl;dr version is that influences are necessary, but being attached to them for most of your own work severely limits your own potential for greatness.
Rare Trax, case in point. You can hear the oldschool metallica in it. Dudes are just now in 2009 catching upto Meshuggah (Periphery, Fellsilent etc). It’ll be interesting 2-3 albums in when they crawl out of their influence cocoons into metal butterflies, ready to be copied in 10 years time by the youthful bands of that time.
For once I’ll side with Dallas on something, I’m fed up with people saying X band are a Meshuggah rip off band because they take some influence from them, it happens all the time, every time some band has a remotely off the wall chug rhythm they’re automatically Meshuggah copycats, Textures, After The Burial, you name it, they’re all Meshuggah clones even though they sound completely different.
As for the vocalist copying Jens Kidman, having done a stint as a vocalist myself, you usually find what works for you and stick with it, I had someone tell me I sound like Matt Heafy last night, not my fault! I’m not a Trivium fanboy, thats just the way I sound.
And all this crap about copying by taking influence from something, thats all total bullshit. When a car company set out to make a new car they dont decide to redesign the fucking wheel, they take ideas that are already fundamentals, put their own spin on things then put it out there.
The same is true for music, I do it all the time when writing, I dont think I’m gonna copy “X band”, I just locate something from my arsenal of techniques and ideas, that I’ve learnt by playing OTHER BANDS music and apply it to something that I’m creating. It’s natural, you learn from your heros and your inspirations, you reinterpret ideas with your own angle, this is life.
Pop-Tarts or Toaster Strudels?
Thanks a lot for the reply! I’ll keep that in mind!!
HAS ANYBODY WORKED OUT WHO THIS DALLAS GUY IS YET?!?!??!?!?!
Stravinsky?? Uuuuhhhhhh…..
DAVIS?????? (Miles, that is) UUuuuuhhhh, uuuuhhhhhh…..
Ahhhhhh.
Okay, finished. So what are you guys fussing about now? Seriously, I read “Stravinsky” and “Davis,” spooged, and stopped there. Everyone should be basking in the afterglow of the mention of Genius, so what are you guys arguing about NOW?? (Off-topic and not sorry: I was losing my shit to *Miles and Quincy Live at Montreux* just yesterday. Ecstasy.)
@ Dallas: Thanks for fielding that one for me. I really needed the pep talk AND the contemporary perspective. These are different days and while I try to take full advantage of all the new avenues open to me for discovering the next thing that’s going to break me off, I occasionally get overwhelmed and discouraged — usually when I go through spells where nothing I find sounds particularly original, much less provocative. I’m not accustomed to music being disposable (DISTURBING TREND!) and I certainly want more than that. “Awesome” just isn’t falling into my lap anymore and I’m occasionally wont to complain like a little bitch about it.
Providence is hard to come by these days.
Keep the blogs coming and don’t forget to let us know when you have something ready for us to check out.
Oh yeah, and I do concur: Rick Springfield is the shit.
*cringe* Okay, before I made that ham-handed attempt at cutting off yet ANOTHER flaming session on this site, I wish I had read through the comments in their entirety. My apologies. But honest as shit, what is it about this site that makes people want to take potshots at people for which they KNOW they would get punched in the face if they dared say the same thing to that individual in person?
Constructive criticism is one thing, as is the defense of ideas in a free forum. THIS is flaming madness, and it’s tedious and boring. Nothing Dallas said in that blog earned him these kinds of attacks.
And Dallas, I stand corrected: I swap my use of “original” with “unique.” Peace, brother.
What was the first album you bought?
He hit on an interesting point in the response to Shinaain. I wonder how the majority of metal artists feel about downloading. There is so much good shit out there these days that it is impractical to follow even one sub genre closely without buying insane amounts of music. Is it wrong to download new shit and just buy the stuff that you are really into? I know it is not legal, but interracial marriage was illegal in Mississippi until a few years ago. The question is: in the current climate is it morally/ethically fucked up to do this? I love music to the point of it almost being an addiction, and I honestly don’t want to be a part of anything that is going to cause quality or quantity to decline. Thoughts?
Maybe it was sodomy that was illegal in Mississippi, but you get the point. I should be able to fuck anything that gives me permission.
God Forbid are better than Killswitch, both musically and stylisticly. When I’ve seen GF live I never noticed Doc Coyle prancing around on stage in cutoffs and a H-I-M shirt.
Check out NinjaSpy!
http://www.myspace.com/thetriadinblood
Sorry Behemoth sucks. They are a bunch of babies. “You not in band, you get out” with a accent of course.
My question:
Music is a pretty shitty career(no offense) cause there only two places you can be at-
1.The top
2.The bottom
What sacrifices or risks did you guys to take it up as a career?
obviously ur talking about my post. i dont want you, or expect you to pass our music to anyone, i wanted your honost opinion about it. im not posting a link for exposure on this board, im posting a link for you, i can give a fuck what others have to say i wanted to hear your opinion. i asked you serious questions, mainly because i wanted to know if our music was good enough for me to stay with the band or fucking quit it… or what our biggest faults are and what we can fix them….
Dude what you think of your fucking band? Who cares what Dallas thinks, you should know if your music is good enough to push, your the cunt that has to play it. If your band or music doesn’t excite you, gtfo.
yea i guess your right, i really love to play, and i like our music, theres just a lot of cons getting in the way. i want to know what we are lacking and how to improve it, and sometimes i takes an outside perspective to tell you the right stuff.
Kevin,
I’ll listen to your shit. Post a link.
yea?
right on, http://www.myspace.com/sagaciouspast
i really appreciate you checking it out. what can we do to improve our music to the next level?
“Theres no relief”, “kidd anthem” and maybe “Conditioning” is our better stuff. how do we bring the intesity we have at our practice and live show thru to our recordings? when we play our shit live its sounds much more intense.
kevsal2@hotmail.com
Urotskidoji is an old manga that prolly got ur dick hard when u were a kid. mixed in alot of risky shit, gonna check out our shitty band now? haha
holy crap im postin shit before i finished reading all of the comments, theres some heavy shit here! Soul at War is fucking sick, i love these vocals. one of my favorite GF songs was The New Clear, thats where i thought the band was heading before you left, it loosk liek ur taking it and running with it. but your the king of the bitches? you could have said something better than that.
@ Dallas,
what are your thoughts on charles bukowski?
I cant leave this one alone…Dude if you dont want to or dont have the time to listen to bands demos thats totally cool, but DO NOT be a cock bag about it. My very opinion, your band is second rate, i understand the dudes at the MS mansion must love you and all but dont come on here and basically write off fans and demos in general and then use that platform to plug bands that you happen to be into at the moment. That my friend is complete hypocrisy. Fuck the flacid R.
@Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt –
Surely you can understand that Dallas probaly get dozens of young fellas with big hopes and dreams coming up to him every week saying “aww dude my shits awesome heres a tape for ya” and after the first half a dozen times that shit gets real old real quick and nine times out of ten it probaly is utter gargage anyways like that crab core bollocks or that attack attack bunch of poofters
I’m hung just like that little green guy in Legend of the Overfiend. :(
Indeed, new Behemoth does kick ass
Dallas,
Sure you have your whole “Coyle Media/life after God Forbid” thing going on for you. Sure you thought the new Behemoth album was great (as did I, actually).
But do you see why Axl loves Cinnamon Toast Skunk Anansie?
Your move, Mr. Coyle.
Because Skin’s live performance chewed my face off when Skunk Anansie opened for Rollins Band 10 years ago. At least, that’s MY excuse.
nobody expects you to listen to anything, let alone all the shit that’s sent to you.
not my point
telling people who look up to you, who admire you and your craft, that they shouldn’t even fucking bother, that’s what i was calling out
don’t be a pussy.
good one coach
so when the hell are we gonna be able to hear this new shit?
I won’t make you scroll up and dig through the flaming bullshit to dig out this gem.
Here you go:
“For your listening pleasure. Music that’s ALL ME. No one else. So if you want to judge me. Do it by this. This is what I’m up to now.
My new project: Demos
http://www.myspace.com/soulatwarband
my film score work and random stuff:
http://coylemedia.ning.com/ “
Lawdy, this was entertaining.
Conceit is never a virtue.
Once again..fuck the FLACID R
Dallas you dont mind if sign my Dokken poster.
And my WASP poster as well.
Hey Dallas, I’m digging the blog.
So I have a question. I am a musician, more specifically a one man band. I have tried the band thing but I just have so many ideas and I don’t like being held up in my creativity by other people, so I’ve stayed solo and just learned to play/write/record/mix everything myself.
Since I do everything myself, I don’t have the time to do as much promotion as I probably should, but I do put alot of time and effort into the music and have been complimented by friends and strangers alike. My thought is if I keep creating cool music, and putting it out there for people to hear (for free since it costs me nothing to make), over time enough people will hear it that I might be able to accrue what could be called a ‘fanbase’. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to play live in any capacity without a backing band but that’s not my focus right now.
My question is, do you think I should try and put more effort into the promo and think more seriously about trying to get a live band together, or if my goal is just to keep making cool music for people to listen to, am I doing fine with my current course of action? I have a day job so I’m not worried about making money off my music. It would be nice but that’s not why I do it. It’s my one true, free outlet of artistic expression where I can say or do whatever I want at any given moment. I like to think that if the messages I communicate are strong enough, the fans will be drawn in over time.
Cheers
“Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics…
Even if you win, you’re still retarded.”
Don’t get discouraged, Dallas. Keep ‘em coming.
Dallas,
I know it’s kinda lame to respond to something you said in a seperate blog here but hey I’ve been meaning to get around to saying it.
You said you were working on new stuff that sounded kinda like Gojira and Alice in Chains….gotta say….AWESOME.
I remember hearing World to Come from Mars to Sirius on some college station ( 95.1?) when i was driving through Hoboken and thinking that sounded Alice and Chainsish and loving it. Gojira themselves allready proved to me that their sound alongside Layne Staleyesque shit is dope and you definitely proved your abillity to entertain me with all the outstanding GF work so I can certainly so my interest is piqued for your new stuff.
Good luck and take your time. It’ll be done when it’s done and there is about a 95 percent chance allready that I’m gonna buy it.
Owen:
“I had someone tell me I sound like Matt Heafy last night, not my fault! I’m not a Trivium fanboy, thats just the way I sound.”
If that’s really the case I’d be much more likely to say you sound like Hettfield. If I were you I’d start trying to sound different seeing how much flak Heafy has taken over the years for “ripping off” Metallica worse then Napster.
Dallas,
You are a fucking asshole. Listen to yourself. You’re not the guy that likes to ’shred’? You don’t want to see the kids bang there heads? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT US TO DO? Sit around like a bunch of spoiled retards, and listen to crappy metal? FUCK YOU! Dipshit.