SOME RANDOM THOUGHTS ABOUT THE USE OF THE TERM “CORE”
Tuesday, September 8th, 2009 at 12:30pm by Axl Rosenberg
This morning, I received the following e-mail from reader Parker Werley:
“How does a band get to earn the proud badge of having -core in their genre?”
That’s a pretty simple question, but it’s also kind of thought provoking. So I thought maybe we could explore it here a little bit. Because, honestly, I’m not sure that I know what the answer is.
Obviously the “core” suffix originated with hardcore. When former Napalm Death drummer Mick Harris coined the term “grindcore,” I’d wager he meant the “core” part to be a specific reference to hardcore – early grind bands openly cited hardcore acts like Discharge as an influence.
But the phrase “metalcore” is where things start to get trickier. It was obviously meant, at least originally, to refer to bands that blended hardcore with metal. And for some bands, like Converge and Shai Hulud, the label fits.
But at this point, saying a metal band was influenced by hardcore is like saying a metal band was influenced by Slayer – it’s kind of a given (Slayer’s 1996 covers album, Undisputed Attitude, even contained a number of re-imaginings of hardcore classics). People have come to apply the “metalcore” tag to any number of bands, even when their hardcore influence is often negligible, they’ve now evolved well beyond a hardcore influence, or they sound absolutely nothing like any other bands who we can safely say fall into that genre. For example, Shadows Fall and the aforementioned Shai Hulud have little or nothing to do with one another, sonically speaking. I constantly hear people call Lamb of God metalcore, but Municipal Waste, who never get shoved under that heading, have a much more obvious hardcore influence (guitarist Ryan Waste has even expressed his love of D.R.I. to me in the past).
Things get even sillier with deathcore. Take Suicide Silence, for example: does anyone really think these dudes spend a lot of time listening to Cro-Mags? Aside from some gang shouts, what evidence do we have that the members of All Shall Perish are Black Flag fans?
My point is this: the term “core” now seems to apply to any modern metal band that people don’t like and/or use breakdowns. It’s as amorphous as the word “nu.”
And yet, almost everyone seems to know what you mean when you say “core” (or “nu,” for that matter). When Vince coined the phrase “Sumeriancore,” I immediately understood what he was talking about. I don’t even think it’s a derogatory label; but there are bands that play modern technical death metal that are either on Sumerian or sound like a lot of the bands that are on Sumerian, so saying “Sumeriancore” just kinda makes sense.
This may be a conundrum that has no answer. The word “core” instantly conveys a lot about a band’s sound, but it does seem increasingly inaccurate when trying to convey the relationship between metal and punk.
Thoughts?
-AR
Who cares about genres?…music is music…If you hear something you like…then right on…
music was made for opinions, but music is still music…for the love of the art.
I agree. But judging by how many people who post to this site of whom it would seem could debate micro-genre classifications from here until the Second Coming (the length of time you expect to have to wait for that occurrence depending, of course, on your own personal proclivities), I would venture to guess that plenty of people care. Just don’t ask me why that is, because I couldn’t tell you. There’s satisfying the basic human need to organize experiences and provide a basis for comparison when communicating with others, and then there is the risible activity of debating *ad naseum* “tr00″ versus “kvlt” versus “br00tal” versus death metal versus black metal versus hardcore versus thrash versus vegetarian progressive grindcore…
And so on.
At any rate, I predict watching the “purists” get in here and duke this one out will be highly entertaining and, in the end, as pointless as ever. (Although considering how much flack Axl and Vince occasionally get for assigning micro-genre classifications, I suppose it makes sense to at least attempt to establish some kind of baseline with the site’s readership. Good luck with that, guys.)
Well said sir, well said.
I would love to start a vegetarian progressive grindcore band. Who’s with me?
More seriously, I think there is definately some need to classify to a certain extent but it does get a little silly with all the niche genres.
Incidentally, I always thought ‘-core’ was earned when the use of blasting one chord very quickly for almost the entire length of a song would earn you this ‘privilage’. It’s the easy way to sound tech.
Totally agreed with your second paragraph. Genre classification can be incredibly useful for describing the way a band is without having to compose a thesis. Of course, just like everything else, it has to be in moderation.
uglymicrowave, i 100% agree. well done.
I use the term metalcore for any band that has scream and sing vocals with an obviously metal sound that has been combined with some kind of pop influence; Trivium, FFDP, Killswitch, etc.
You are not well informed in that case since “pop” has nothing to do with metalcore UNLESS you mean ‘pop’ as in popular, but I doubt that.
It’s very simple, metalcore is metal combined with hardcore. Perfect example is Unearth, early Killswitch, Converge etc.
Bullet for my valentine & Trivium are NOT metalcore. They have no hardcore influences nor do they have any hardcore characteristics in their music. They just get lumped in there because they rose to popularity around the same time and have slight similarities to bands like late KsE.
makes me think of def leppard being lumped in with the NWOBHM. just cos they got popular at the same time doesn’t mean they’re the same thing.
Exactly. Thank you.
“It’s very simple, metalcore is metal combined with hardcore.”
Is it REALLY that simple….?
Actually no. For instance metal grew from hardcore punk and therefore by your definition all metal is metalcore. Some of what you say is a little ambigious and hard to argue but for the most part when you say that Trivium “has NO hardcore influences” I think there you are definitely wrong seeing as they do have hardcore vocals mixed in and the inevitable “breakdowns”.
To me it’s mostly the presence of breakdowns and hardcore vocals that make metalcore. Basically you take a standard hardcore punk band of today, Most Precious Blood lets say. Then you add
more complex music, longer songs, guitar solos, clean song choruses and presto. Metalcore.
You obviously missed the little memo about Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, hell even some of Jimi Hendrix and Cream’s stuff leading towards metal. “Hardcore” and metal were, initially, at odds with each other. Metal grew out of a lot of the prog stuff of the late 60’s early 70’s and hardcore came from punk which was meant as a “fuck you!” to the prog bands supposed musical masturbation. The only metal that grew from hardcore punk was thrash. The only way I could see your reasoning about metal growing from hardcore would be Motorhead, but they predate the hardcore punk movement so… yea. There was cross pollination, but no “one came from the other.” They have separate musical family trees that grew too close together and got their branches tangled.
I do see your reasoning for your metalcore definition, but it’s very firmly rooted in recent history, which is only a half answer really.
Nice read that makes sense. And oh yeah…fuck this generation of genre obsessed half ass music fans.
I don’t know how you guys overlooked this, but -core nowadays largely refers to influence of the, ahem, nu-hardcore, most notably Hatebreed and their tough-guy ilk. Which, in itself, doesn’t sound very much like hardcore punk. And also, Municipal Waste are generally called crossover.
I really couldn’t disagree more.
Metal and punk have been cross-pollinating for many years. Lemmy has described Motorhead as a marriage of the two. One can easily see his promotion of punk (I recall them covering The Ramones live and dedicating it to Joey and Dee Dee Ramone), and yet the influence of Motorhead on heavy metal is huge. Likewise Venom was a cross of metal and punk (see the song metalpunk) and not surprisingly similar in style to Motorhead.
This crossing of the two continued as thrash metal developed. You will note the stylistic differences between Slayer’s Show No Mercy and Reign in Blood. The influence of DRI and Agnostic Front on Slayer during the Reign in Blood era is evidenced by Slayer interviews at the time. In some ways Reign in Blood is the quintessential crossover album.
As you noted, the hardcore scene (derived from punk) later evolved into the crustcore of discharge which then mutated into the grindcore of early Napalm Death and Carcass. Grindcore’s influence on Death Metal is also noted. See how Death Metal permuted from the sound of Scream Bloody Gore and Seven Churches to modern day Krisium. Again, cross-pollination of metal and hardcore.
Through this lens one can see the cross breeding of Gothenburg style death metal with Earth Crisis style hardcore. God Forbid is a great example of this because, on this site, Dallas has blogged about the influence of Earth Crisis style hardcore on the band’s stylistic development.
Sometimes the evolution of music is amusing. For example, I remember vividly the hardcore scene of the late 90s. Earth Crisis was the band that typified this for me, and Victory Records seemed emblematic of the movement in general. Today, Victory Records seems to be filled with a cross-pollination of hardcore, emo, and Gothenberg death metal. So perhaps this analysis is incomplete in that it fails to examine the marriage of punk and metal from the punk side of things.
It is pretty simple, Axl. The bands that carry the “core” appellation have more in common with the hardcore side of the hybridization. Metalcore bands like Shadows Fall have singers who sound more like hardcore singers. While the guitars carry the guitar harmonies from metal, the riffs themselves carry a lot of the hardcore brand, breakdowns no withstanding.
A thought for further examination might be the hardcore roots of nu-metal, and why the mallcore appellation was actually more appropriate. Supplemental reading starts (as usual) at Metal Inquisition and then x stuck in the past x:
http://www.themetalinquisition.com/2009/08/metal-inquisition-guest-appearances-on.html
Very good points.
“Things get even sillier with deathcore. Take Suicide Silence, for example: does anyone really think these dudes spend a lot of time listening to Cro-Mags? Aside from some gang shouts, what evidence do we have that the members of All Shall Perish are Black Flag fans?”
I think you may be failing to realize (or simply didn’t mention) that while some of the modern “deathcore” and “metalcore” bands have little to do with old school hardcore (as noted: Black Flag, Discharge, Cro-Mags, etc.), they do often have a lot to do with, and have been heavily influenced by, a newer generation of hardcore. All Shall Perish may not have been influenced by Black Flag (as you noted), but probably did listen to plenty of Hatebreed, Earth Crisis, or Vision of Disorder. The members of some of the newer ‘core sub-genre bands are too young to likely have been fans of early hardcore, but probably WERE raised on Converge, Bane, Nora, or similar more recent hardcore acts. When we look at it that way, I think it is easier to hear the similarities. So it may be true that their is little in common between early hardcore (Black Flag, Cro-Mags, etc) and current “‘core” acts, these recent bands do seem to be influenced by and have elements of a newer generation of hardcore in their music.
That’s a good point, and probably applies to some of the current “deathcore” or whatever type bands. But, I think with a lot of the bands who’d fall into that “summeriancore” subgenre, they don’t even go that far back.
It’s true. That’s really where the basis of the -core label comes from: hardcore acts generally from the mid 90s on. Listen to any modern hardcore band (as tough as it may be) and compare them with a similarly metalcore labeled band and the parallels can be drawn. Given this generation is the age it is, there’s few parallels with the hardcore bands of the 70s/80s.
Jimmy crack-core and I don’t care
My massa’s gone away…
Jimmy crack-whore?
That’s always how I thought the actual song went…
When people ask what sort of music I like, I tell them I’m a metalhead. Not an epic metalhead, or a power-metalhead, or a Swedish melodic death metalhead….just “Metalhead”. No other overall classification of music covers so many different sounds – from Grimfist to Epica to Opeth to Behemoth to Turisas. As a community, metal lovers have gotten more worried about what sub-genre the bands they listen to fall under (or, they allow the trendy sub-genre determine what they listen to, instead of picking out the bands they like – which completely destroys the inherent point of music) than what the bands actually sound like.
Fuck classification. The entire point of metal was to not give a fuck what others thought, and by trying to classify every single band into sub-genres that detail each specific sound a band has to make to fit in, metal has become the antithesis of that. Music is what it is because of the individuals who create it, and by trying to force bands into static, set subgenres, it takes that individual music and turns it into nothing but precast, sterile shit. The “myspace metal” trend was a great indication of that – literally thousands of bands that sounded the exact same. 20 could die every single day, and no one would notice, because another 20 new ones that sounded the exact same would spring back up to take their place.
I just call it “shit”. With a few glaring exceptions (After the Burial springs to mind), the name fits perfectly.
why do I imagine that one day in the future there actually will be a music genre called “shit” or “shitcore” or “fecal rock” or something like that?
There’s a mostly NY-based offshoot of shoegaze called “shitgaze”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitgaze
I think the Core reference should apply more to the views, lyrics, stances, and attitudes of the bands. Too many bands these days have older hardcore influences musically. Pantera was never considered hardcore, even though they had breakdowns, their lyrics and views were difinitely metal.
These are a few of the bands that i consider metalcore or hardcore/Grindcore these days:
Converge – Their lyrics, integrity, and music
Shai Hulud – Lyrics, Scene Attitude
First Blood – Attitude, Lifestyle, Lyrics
August Burns Red – Lifestyle, Lyrics
Napalm Death – Lyrics, views, lifestyle
There are alot of bands who have hardcore influenced music these days, but have no views, integrity, or lyrics that mean anything important. These bands are more about the music and having fun, which seems more like metal than hardcore to me.
i absolutely agree. you hit the nail right on the head.
I usually just add the “-core” suffix to describe a band that uses breakdowns. Pardon my laziness, but I think that’s the simplest use for it at the present time.
e.g.
August Burns Red– metalcore– melodic metal with breakdowns
Despised Icon– grindcore– intense grind passages supplemented with breakdowns
Suicide Silence– deathcore– death riffs and evil vocals with breakdowns
After the Burial– Sumeriancore– progressive death metal with breakdowns
etc.
+1 to you sir
Despised Icon – grindcore???
Sorry, but that’s BS. Despised Icon have nothing in common with grindcore.
has anyone noticed that Ziltoid has pretty much disappeared since his day in the sun a few weeks ago? Just pointing out, cuz i feel like he’d have a lot to say on this article lol
I think I found him on Facebook, I should ask him.
the term “core” is slapped on to the end of whatever sub-genre that pops up the same way that “Mc”
is added to whatever item McDonald’s comes up with.
it’s a reshuffling of the same ingrediants.
hahah good one.
I think core is an easy way to identify music I don’t want to listen to.
why can’t we all just get along? we’ll call it peace-core
Heh. Peace Corps.
I’m just waiting for Nu-core.
pretty sure that this was used as an insult when applied to Chimaira’s newest album, “the infection.”
i think i read that somewhere (probably not here…)
peace-core thatd be funny
NYHC with death metal influence -> 90s deathcore(like Disembodiment, Abnegation, Day of Suffering, Aftershock, All Out War etc) -> deathcore, metalcore
NYHC with death metal influence -> with more metal influence -> Prayer For Cleansing and early metalcore bands.
Chaotic hardcore and metal influence -> converge, 7 angels 7 plagues , cave in -> metalcore
90s hardcore (unbroken, Strongarm etc)with metal influence -> Shai Hulud, Morning Again -> more Metal -> metalcore
Euro Edge Metal Bands -> went more metal -> metalcore
nu metal kids wanna stay cool -> started calling themselves “core” -> metalcore and (new) deathcore
*Disembodied
It seems that “nu” and “Core,” around the early 2000’s, are/were synonamous with shitty “metal” or “heavy music.” Experience tells that this is so, therefore such bands should be avoided and allowed to die on their own for the good of quality metal. This will obviously kill off the stupid, bland, symmetrical, tasteless, and blockhead bands, and leave behind the interesting, talented, insightful and visionary.
If you support good metal, please tell President Barack Obama that you want metal death panels.
I’d prefer death metal panels
Hardcore punk saved heavy metal from an eternity of teased hair, spandex, and balladry. HC bands like Black Flag and Discharge and Napalm Death adopted the best aspects of rock/metal (Motorhead, Sabbath) and connected the punk fans back to their roots. Metal players and fans took note of that and it’s been a relatively symbiotic relationship throughout the nineties and naughts.
Core has become an insult (except for scene kids, etc) but it really shouldn’t be. I was listening to some old-school metalcore (Killswitch, Unearth, early ATR) the other day and realized why I got into it in the first place. Music like that isn’t much like Metallica mixed with Black Flag at all.
Yeah I would say very simply that metalcore is just Metal combined with Hardcore. ‘Core’ to me, means screaming/growling/dirty/aggressive vocals. A band is ‘Death’ when their lyrics are about Death. Otherwise it’s hardcore. I find it fairly easy to tell the difference between these micro-genres. Although, it doesn’t really matter either which way. It’s just a way of organizing my iTunes.
This is sticky and depends on when and where you grew up. People have called the combination of hardcore and metal many things over the years.
The first I really remember was the term “crossover” in the 80’s referring to bands like DRI and Suicidal Tendencies, MOD and the like. There were also a lot of “legit” hardcore bands that started to borrow from metal like Agnostic Front, Cro-Mags ( even Slapshot had some metal-sounding guitar solos.)
Someone also mentioned early-mid 90’s hardcore, which seems pretty valid. Victory records WAS the watermark for hardcore bands with metal elements and their roster at the time is pretty telling. Integrity, Earth Crisis, Bloodlet, Strife. What they were doing at the time sounded pretty fresh and I prefer to call it metallic hardcore, primarily because I am old and I fear change…but it makes sense. Those were hardcore bands with a little slayer worship thrown in for good measure.
I think the tradition continued and got “math-ier” for lack of a better term, with bands like Botch, Cave In, Coalesce, Converge and DEP. Still…no guitar solos here.
Now metalcore…it just seems that the definitive metalcore bands borrow from both genres, but borrow more extensively from the Swedish sound and don’t seem to have any apparent ties to the hardcore scene ie. label mates and tour partners. I don’t think there’s any chance of Cursed or Blacklisted getting picked up on a KSE tour.
Anyway, I have no idea where I was going with this, but it still pisses me off to hear Coalesce called metalcore..
Did you write something like this, before? If so, I totally agree with the “borrowing from both but not really part of either” statement.
yeah, I tend to repeat myself…another symptom of old age I guess…that and aimless rambling.
Meh. Core sucks, and thats that.
I hate to say this but I really think it’s mostly marketing that has allowed us so many damn sub-genre classifications. Basically this music has been around for so many years and generations those that sell the music are left with the dilemma how can they sell the same damn thing they’ve been selling for years and make it seem fresh and new?
Well let’s make a brand-new genre which can then be a brand name that becomes asociated with our band.
So I draw the line at the difference between a true delineation that displays the ACTUAL MUSICAL CONTENT as opposed to something that describes the stance the guitarists uses while playing live.
“Crab-Core” should not be considered a genre. There is nothing in that name that describes the music itself. The music itself is 90 homogenous with whatever other crap was out there.
I think the sub-genres, although humorous/annoying, are basically useful because they drastically alter my
time spent shopping for music. I know immediately that if something is classified as “Black Metal” I will
most likely be bored by it’s aimlessness, laughable attempts at appearing “evil”, stupid sounding vocals and superficial occult references. “Oh that’s black metal. I automatically hate it.”
There are three levels of genre classification that I have seen. With one being the most relevant and three being the most needed of being thrown out altogether.
1.) When the genre classifies music that which has several musical elements that lend it a unique, set apart status.
example: bluegrass
2.) When the genre classifies a “scene”. This encapsulates the fashion and political views held by the clique of people who claimed this music as their own. This is mostly invalid but can sometimes relate to the music itself.
Example :”That’s not punk because it does not have violent empathy or a politcal agenda.”
“Hey dumbass, none of those things relate to any known musical elements so shut your face!”
3.) When the genre talks about something completely periphoral and unrelated to the music itself. Often the band recieving this classification could easily be given a pre-existing name but for the sake of marketing is trying to sound new and fresh.
If it were up to me there would be a lot less sub-genres for sure. I think we need to go back and start deleting some and decide mainly what is what. I think the staff at Metalsucks should work on this when
news is slow.
Since when does a genre classification absolutely have to do with musical style and not scene, or more importantly a shared aesthetic. Anybdy who thinks punk can only sound like The Ramones or The Sex Pistol doesn’t really know much about punk. Ditto Black Metal.
I have that pedal. I use it for smooth, distorted lead tone on my bass.
As strange as it might seem I’ve never attached the word -core to anything, I’m an old cunt and a Brit to boot so even what’s accepted as early Grindcore (Napalm Death etc.) was always just Grind to me and precursors like Discharge were just what Punk had become now the spotlight was off and the scene’s bigger stars were off making weird pop music. Hardcore in the American sense always seemed a prefix to Punk and an expression of the underground and deliberatly un-commercial nature of the Punk scene there in the 80’s and the fact that only the hard core of Punk fans still remained loyal. That the word somehow came to be a catch-all term for the genre itself is what causes confusion to this day. What I’m saying is hardcore is just a desriptive word that can be put in front of any genre, more as a comfrmation of the deliberately underground attitude of it’s fans and bands than a key to what they actually sound like. So that means that attaching -core to some of the genres and bands that have attracted it at the moment sure really be considered…..um…….silly.
In my opinion. Core is a term used by elitists to describe a band that they haven’t listened to, but they think they have since they’ve listened to killswitch engage, that has breakdowns. Heck, it doesn’t even have to have breakdowns, as people are still calling Job for a cowboys new album deathcore, even though most of the breakdowns are long gone and are replaced with a much more technical style.
Axl, you are confusing hardcore punk with hardcore. Municipal waste are influenced by hardcore PUNK not the hatebreed style hardcore that has since influenced most of the shitty bands you post about. Learn something about music before writing an article. Please. You are not even trying.
Axl, I think you touched upon some really good points.
I think however that at the core (no pun intended) of the issue, it is absolutely impossible to really truly evaluate some ones inspiration or influence when it comes to music because people interpret music in their own way. For example those high range screams of Phil Anselmo of Pantera were actually partly inspired by Norwegian Black Metal bands.
This is why I really hate it when people start getting into genre debates. I mean especially in taking into consideration modern American metal bands are really amalgamations of pretty much every genre. For example on All Shall Perish’s “The Price of Existence” the songs:
Wage slaves – screams Hatebreed
Prisoner of war – screams Darkthrone
We Hold These Truths – screams Yngwie Malmsteen
The True Beast – screams Dying Fetus
These bands are just exploring the different sub-genres of metal they group up listening to and by doing so are making their own unique sound. I think its great and the staple of the truly progressive and open-minded metal head that appreciates aggressive music in all of its forms.
ALL METAL IS ESSENTIAL DESCENDED FROM HARDCORE PUNK!
All metal really, besides NWOBHM, and glam.
I enjoy hardcore music, as well as, of course, metal. Thrash is heavily influenced by hardcore punk it seems. Pretty much all of the Big 4’s material is hardcore punk influenced, just listen to it.
I somewhat think “core” described the vocals, primarily. Metalcore, no matter what speed the band tends to play, blended metal with growly vocals. “Deathcore” tends to sound more “death vocally” compared to “metalcore” vocalists. (if this makes sense) “Hardcore” lyrics to me, sounds indecipherable.
But take bands that exist today that don’t employ scream or growl vocals: Dream Theater, Iced Earth, Megadeth, Symphony X… They span different genres in themselves, but there’s no way any band would have a “core” attached to them.
Anybody here know why Light This City and Black Dahlia are considered -core?
Probably for the same reason Lamb of God or Mastodon are considered metalcore by some folks. They just happened to be American metla bands that formed and gained popularity in the early part of this decade, a time when most of the ascendant metal bands were genuinely -core.
As such, any bands who were coming up at the same time (and would often buddy up and tour with -core bands) were labelled -core as well, whether it was musically warranted or not.
And let’s not forget everyone who says that the last two Machine Head albums were -core. The labeling of every American groove metal or melodeath band as -core is pathetic. Then there’s labeling slam death bands like Dying Fetus as deathcore when they are most certainly not. Dying Fetus predates deathcore by years.
Machine Head isn’t core, they just suck.
I think I never consider -core as a criticism.
Metal has much to do with hardcore. Like, thrash metal brought punk into metal, hardcore brought metal into punk. And, sludge/post metal is pretty much hardcore influenced as well.
But it’s kinda sad that many people think-core is simply something with breakdowns or shitty music they don’t listen to. :/
“sludge/post metal is pretty much hardcore influenced”
absolutely correct and astute observation.
Just wanna comment that that Boss pedal is horrible……just thought id add that.
And fuck anything after Hatebreed that has “core” in its name
Those who hate on core are just ignorant retards, and the other way.