Comments on: MORE ON 360 DEALS: WHY THE “INDUSTRY” IS NECESSARY

By: Susan Helene Gottfried

Susan Helene Gottfried — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:40:55 +0000

Good fucking god. Substitute a few words and yep, this entire argument works for publishing as well. Which is sad; I’d hoped the publishing folk would have learned from the past twenty years of the music biz.

By: stu1

stu1 — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:26:49 +0000

I agree with you to some extent, however, a few things:
In some cases, yes, anyone can buy onto a tour, and I’ve seen lots of examples of rich dudes or trust fund kids buying onto tours with no label. There’s one out right now that’s slipping my mind, actually. But, at the end of the day, that’s not going to accomplish anything for the band. And in many cases, while there is an actual hard “buy on,” lots of “buy ons” also calculate in tour marketing dollars. In those cases, if you don’t know how to properly allocate funds, you’re fucked. Again, this is where a label comes in. Relapse, Southern Lord, metal blade, etc KNOW where the past places to spend that money is for “act x.”
Your Ozzfest number is way off, too. They were charging far more than that in most, if not all cases, and that was 4 years ago when my buddies did the tour. It’s also not a profitable tour. Most bands don’t “clean up.” It’s a way to play to new faces but mostly, it’s a resume’ builder. Part of the reason Ozzfest has ceased is there’s less money out there thus less bands able to buy on when the return is low to non-existent.
And you’re right, labels are cutting back on promotion/marketing and tour support. But, most good/real labels are still allocating money for it, when it makes sense. Again, it’s an experience/connections factor. $2000 spent correctly is more effective than $20.000 spent incorrectly. And if you have a manager who knows what he’s doing and is able to get your record into some distribution chain, you may be able to do it. But, here’s an example: speaking to some friends recently. They’re on a small but established label, have pretty decent soundscan numbers, have an agent and have a label willing to spend money on promoting tours and what not, and they’re still having a LOT of trouble even getting on lower mid level tours because their scan numbers are low in comparison. So even there, you have an example of agents more willing to put bands from label X on who are selling more of their artists’ records, than label Y’s act who’s got money to spend.

By: aaron m.

aaron m. — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:52:25 +0000

but regardless of your label – no matter how good it is – a lot of tours will book whomever pays them the most. the fallacy that a label is *necessary* to get on “x tour” is ridiculous. even if you’re fucking shit, pay a promoter enough and they’ll put you on any tour. before ozzfest closed up shop, i recall how they were charging THE BANDS 25,000 to play. and even though as a band you can probably clean up pretty nicely on that tour, when you see things like that, it still really sends the point home about how little the music industry is about the music.

but considering the fact that a lot of “powerhouse” labels aren’t even providing tour support to bands makes this an even bigger joke. when the most that a lot of labels will extend to their artists is promotion and not very much of it, it makes you wonder the necessity of having them at all.

with regard to labels, there are some labels that i go to specifically because they release music that i like with some consistency. relapse, deathwish, earache, southern lord, hydrahead, blahblahblahfuckingblah. i think everyone who really listens to music has at least ONE record label that they return to with some frequency, so i completely agree with justin in this regard. but on the other hand, we as music fans need to take the onus upon ourselves to get off our asses and find bands we like.

i mean, most people will never know how much work it takes finding music that you really like. most people would rather sit on their fat asses, stuffing their face with cheetos and bitch about how “there’s no good music anymore”. and true, there are a lot of exceptionally shitty bands, but that said, there are a lot of exceptionally good bands that people will never find out about because they don’t have the time to sit around all day listening to music. even still, even with all the word of mouth in the world, it seems like there are some people who still seem apprehensive to latch onto something that isn’t associated with the “brand” of a certain label.

By: stu1

stu1 — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:57:06 +0000

That’s not true. While a “single phone call” may be a stretch, labels (ie GOOD labels) tend to pull a LOT of weight in getting bands on tours.

By: stu1

stu1 — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:56:02 +0000

And to do it properly in most cases, takes years of experience, relationships, etc etc. You can’t just created a myspace profile and expect to survive.

By: Carn

Carn — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:52:10 +0000

It all comes down to ‘added value’.

- Will your band benefit from the added value a certain brandname (or reputation) a label has? Do you need/want to be associated with band X or band Y?
- Will your band benefit from marketing services a label employs to make sure the right people check out your band? How do they market the different kinds of bands?
- Will your band benefit from a label with distribution in certain areas where it would otherwise be impossible for you to get your CD in those stores?
- Will your band benefit from a whatever kind of deal that enables your PRODUCT to reach a higher (studio) standard?

I think most of you can add a bunch more to this list. If you want all of the above you`ll be hardpressed to get what you want. If you can take care of some of those things yourself things get a lot more realistic if you want to be an active writing, recording and touring band.

By: John

John — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:54:20 +0000

Some people change their own oil, some people pay Pep Boys to do it for them. The former is cheaper but you just get the oil, Pep Boys does window washer fluid, the oil, inflates your tires, the whole nine but you pay a bit more…

By: sacha

sacha — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:35:48 +0000

The notion that labels get bands on tours in a single phone call and “handle your business affairs” is a myth. As someone just suggested, if there is no music being sold, a manager or agent would do the job you’re referring to more effectively.

By: Jon Lewis

Jon Lewis — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:20:56 +0000

FYI
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03/secret-copyright-tre.html

By: Frampler

Frampler — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:11:34 +0000

Is that a different Justin Foley to the KSE/Blood Has Been Shed drummer?
From what I can discern, labels in future will by necessity be delving in to territory that one might formerly have associated with an agent or management company.

By: SHOCKTROOP

SHOCKTROOP — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:59:21 +0000

I still lean towards thinking that bands can market themselves and promote themselves. They just need to have the know how and the drive to do so.

By: metalanus

metalanus — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:54:39 +0000

words hurt man.

By: Matt Kraatz

Matt Kraatz — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:42:43 +0000

Yeah, when Best Buy sells an album for $10, they’re selling it AT COST or even below cost as a loss leader to get bitches in the store. Other shops can’t compete with that (Tower…) and the independent recordings get jacked up because they don’t sell anyway.

By: Matt Kraatz

Matt Kraatz — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:37:37 +0000

That broken trust you mention is the biggest reason for the crisis the industry is in, and that’s what needs to be ramified for the big labels to survive. Smaller labels need to work harder at establishing their own brands so that consumers will return to them as “tastemakers,” which is what their purpose should be first and foremost. It seems like that should be a pretty obvious rule of thumb: don’t fuck the audience, don’t fuck the talent. Unless they’re hot and slutty.

By: NuMallCore Pwns Yo Mama

NuMallCore Pwns Yo Mama — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:22:18 +0000

Actually, I was just wondering when that Gamma Bomb lp was going to be released. Off to download now.

By: metalvinny

metalvinny — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:05:40 +0000

You’re forgetting about the intangibles when considering retail costs of a record. Producers, engineers, mixing, mastering, retail coops, advertising, creating digital assets, etc. etc.

By: Magneto

Magneto — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:47:56 +0000

I feel like the whole retailing end of the music industry has done a great deal to encourage illegal downloading and filesharing. We all know that it doesn’t cost anywhere near $14 to make a CD. If labels would work more closely with retailers to lower the price to, let’s say, under $10 for a full-length (LP) CD you might start seeing a spike in physical music sales.

I believe that lots of people really do appreciate having a physical copy, not just for the album artwork and lyrics, but also because computers shit out every once in a while and everyone likes a backup plan.

Sure, people might stop buying music altogether at some point, but there is also the possibility that the industry will figure out a way to put a major damper on filesharing. Who really knows?

Still the idea of the 360 deal really just sickens me from an artist perspective. I hope Earache is really taking care of Gamma Bomb, I really think they’re one of the best “re-thrash” bands out there but it seems realy unlikely they make enough from merch sales, especially with this deal, to sustain themselves.

How are they gonna eat? According to lots of artist, venues don’t always provide bands with free food.

Good luck to them though. Interesting how up-in-the-air things are with the industry.

By: Chip Northcutt

Chip Northcutt — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:39:39 +0000

Record companies can do a lot for you. As history shows they usually spend your money poorly and charge you back for it. Artists rarely get anything but an advance from the record company. After that the accountants make sure you get charged back for any profits you might have made. These kinds of deals would be more attractive if poeple trusted their record companies. Letting thes alternative streams of imcome run through a record company is a recipe for disaster. I don’t have the answer for the problems of the record industry but this doesn’t seem to be a viable solution.

By: Double D

Double D — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:39:00 +0000

Your mom is utopian and unrealistic.