WHEN KEEPING IT REAL GOES WRONG: GOD FORBID’S DOC COYLE ON REVIVAL TRENDS

Wednesday, December 30th, 2009 at 10:11am by

doc09

A couple weeks ago, I did an interview with Metal Injection for a retrospective on the highlights, trends, and cultural significance of the heavy music scene from an insider’s perspective concerning the last ten years. Near the end of the interview, I was asked if there were any sub-genres or trends that I didn’t like, or that seemed to get on my nerves. I thought about it for a minute, and generally annoying things like nu-metal or screamo or stale metalcore just seemed obvious and an easy target, when something dawned on me. I was generally annoyed by the whole ReThrash scene.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Municipal Waste, and have enjoyed the likes of Warbringer and Toxic Holocaust on occasion. I consider myself a diehard original thrash fan, counting Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Testament as some of my all-time favorite bands that really imprinted themselves on my musical DNA, displaying exactly what great heavy metal should embody. After this interview, I kept thinking about this, and realized that what perturbed me wasn’t the music at all. I liked plenty of these bands. What I really didn’t like was when any type of retro trend gets way too much credit without bringing anything significantly new to the equation. So I guess my real beef is with metal critics, blogs, websites, industry aficionados, and publications, all of which tend to have an over reaching obsession with nostalgia. Not to play favorites, but I am also equally bothered by the metal media’s constant stroking of the stoner rock scene, AKA 10,000 bands that all sound like Black Sabbath.

As a musician who wears his influences on his sleeve, I certainly have no problem borrowing a thing or two from the past. But taking someone else’s entire playbook without adding any pages, and masquerading it as a badge of purity, comes off as obtuse and elitist. Being heralded as a second coming by faux hipster writers makes this all the more puzzling and frustrating. Now I know what you’re all thinking – “This dude has sour grapes because all these retro bands are getting more fanfare than his band.” And you are all exactly right. =) I think I take it a little personally because God Forbid opened for Anthrax on their reunion tour in 2006, which was an incredible tour, except for the LA show where there were these 17 year old kids in the front row wearing their Suicidal hats flipped up with patch covered denim vests and white high tops falling asleep on the barricade and flipping us off. This was my first exposure to this new school thrash scene. I just found a significant amount of irony in that these kids felt we didn’t stand up to a level of purity to a scene they weren’t even around to experience.

Sour grapes aside, after killer new releases in the last couple years from Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Testament, and Exodus (I’ve heard some new Anthrax, too, and it’s sick!), I realized we don’t need to reignite thrash. The originators are still holding it down and with the huge excitement over the upcoming American Carnage Tour and Big 4 Sonisphere festival shows, it proves that this is what people really want anyway. So what do you guys think? Am I crying over spilled milk or do I have a legitimate beef? How credible are revival trends?

-DC

Check out God Forbid wearing their influences on their sleeves by visiting them on MySpace.

  • 36thoughtless

    “What I really didn’t like was when any type of retro trend gets way too much credit without bringing anything significantly new to the equation. So I guess my real beef is with metal critics, blogs, websites, industry aficionados, and publications, all of which tend to have an over reaching obsession with nostalgia.”

    Concerning Rethrash and how much general respect it receives, I think it depends on whom you ask. I agree with you, and, though I enjoy MW, I’m ambivalent to the revival as a whole.

    One of the big issues that I think people don’t consider is how certain “mainstay” bands are credited even for their crappy releases as a result of nostalgia. For instance, to me, Obituary hasn’t released a good album since “Cause of Death.” So it works both ways: old bands and new bands with the “old sound” of whatever genre are heralded by their peers simply for tradition’s sake. The same thing is happening with this “old school death metal” revival.

    “Not to play favorites, but I am also equally bothered by the metal media’s constant stroking of the stoner rock scene, AKA 10,000 bands that all sound like Black Sabbath.”

    Seriously, for the love of god, why don’t people get this?

    • http://www.crustcake.com/ The WZA’d

      Fuck you guys, stoner/sludge/doom is good music.

      And furthermore, suck a dick.

  • I killed a Dunky

    Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh sooo call ur bro and lets make G F the way it was @ the begining thanks

    • King Cheezit

      Word. +1

  • Patrick

    God 4 paragraphs of contradictions and insults, way to go again

    • SonOF

      What contradictions? Please back up your claims…

    • Ali

      Shut the fuck up

      • Ali

        I was talking to Patrick, not SonOF by the way.

    • IAmTheClitCommander

      Patrick’s mom is a dirty,nasty slut.

  • http://www.myspace.com/whitearmsofathena Josh

    We just need to throw some new ideas in…
    (It) will eventually get out of this closed off circle we are part of…

    • matt

      nice one

    • Chainsaw Majini

      Dig it!

      Nice reference.

  • Sean

    I tend to agree with you on this. I grew up on the early thrash scene and even still listen to some of the new albums by the old bands. But I’ve been fairly disappointed with the rethrash trend, and you nailed why. There is nothing new being offered, just the same stuff that has already been done. If someone would put a new spin on it or evolve it a bit I might care more but otherwise I’ll just stick to the classics.

  • Genial Gentile

    Totally legitimate gripe…I couldn’t agree more about the current ReThrash scene. The thing is…the music doesn’t bother me too much other than what you already mentioned about not adding anything new to a style that’s been around for 30 years. What DOES bug the shit out of me is these guys dressing up like they’re going to an 80′s-themed costume party. There is nothing authentic about that and amounts to little more than schtick, and I hate schtick in metal (unless you’re GWAR). It may be intended as an homage, but it comes off as mocking.

    • cougar party

      “What DOES bug the shit out of me is these guys dressing up like they’re going to an 80’s-themed costume party.”

      That made me laugh. How very true.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Hoefer/25511007 David Hoefer

        1

  • John

    I hate rethrash. But, then again, I don’t really like thrash metal all that much either.

  • Alex_P

    I think it depends. A band such as Mantic Ritual have enough energy to be worthy of praise, even if they aren’t necessarily original, while bands such as Swashbuckle, Hatchet and Rumpelstiltskin Grinder aren’t doing anything I should care about. Praising the reappearance of the genre itself seems limiting, but condemning it will also get you in trouble. It’s like Deathcore: it’s a trend, and thus some of the bands will be good and most will be bad. Deathcore gets shafted because it’s new, and people are always more comfortable with the old than with the new.
    Also, for good stoner metal that doesn’t sound like Sabbath, try Montreal’s Barn Burner (live if you can).

  • Nick

    A response to Sean: I hear what you are saying about putting a spin on an old style, but that is what Nu-Metal is, Metalcore, and just about every trend that comes out. And what happens with this is the elitist fucks make fun of it and say its not true and it turns into a joke. I for one have no problem with Nu-Metal, Metalcore, Homeboy Hardcore, whatever it might be I think all those trends were good for their time, they ran their course and today are looked back at with shame, but at the time they were fun trends that most people enjoyed. I think people are just lame in general. I bet you 90 percent of the people that make fun of Korn today, were obsessed with them in 1994, being true is not turning around and saying something sucks that you onced loved just because he turns into a trend that is no longer “cool” anyway I lost track. Basically what I am saying is that when bands try something different they aren’t respected in most cases because they are straying from the path of “true” metal and thats a shame because without trends music would never change and evolve and it would be boring and stale.

    • Superhans

      awesome post

    • Sean

      I agree with you, and am always amused at the absolute hatred that you see at times on this board, almost as if some bands very presence (or genre) has offended someone on a personal level. I like the constant evolution of the genres, and despite not carrying for say metalcore as a whole, there are bands within that genre I do like, same with various others. I guess since I like constant change and progression, going back to the past to purely recreate something already done isn’t all that appealing to me. I guess what really surprises me is not that there a few bands that decided to play old school thrash, it is that there are a ton of them now doing it offering nothing different from each other.

    • the benthic

      yeah, being from socal, i was kinda at the epicenter of the whole deathcore berth and i admit it back then, when winds of plague and suicide silence were just barily coming out and becoming popular i was definatly a fan, i thought winds of plagues “a cold day in hell” was a really good cd, i listened to it all the time, and went to see them numerous times. to add to that, i felt that suicide silences self titled ep was great as well. the problem comes when the bands became metal mainstream and the whole deathcore tag was made, once people started to deride the subgenre i found myself talking shit on the genre as well, not unlike your reference to korns fans, but while i honestly dont like anything winds of plague has done since acdih, i do actually think that sc nttb was actually a pretty good cd, and i actually have a lot of respect for alex as a musician. but i have to declare myself as guilty as someone who had once loved the band and now almost act as if i never liked them at all.

      • BigD

        You guys are spot on.

        Music is music, y’know? Shame 99% of people don’t understand that concept, that no matter how its decorated and what amp it’s played through, its all the same 12 notes put together in different ways. some you like, some you dont, and what label happens to be stuck to it isn’t gonna affect whether you like it or not on any more than a psychological level. Evolution is a good thing, and i think you’re spot on saying that people shunning things for being new is bullshit. Forward thinking musicians are gonna be the ones who shape what you listen to in 5, 10, 50 years time, not the people regurgitating whats happened 5, 10, 50 years ago. There’s a reason why Crack The Skye is album of the year on just about every site imaginable…

  • Bob

    Your description of the LA show with Anthrax is why most of the bigger venue shows are ridiculous.

  • Rick

    I would have to agree with you on this. I’ve never really been a big fan of thrash to begin with, and this new shit that’s coming out lately isn’t doing a thing to advance what I view as an already over-rated genre. Music in itself should constantly change and evolve into something more. Trash and Stoner Metal have been done. Time to move on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/CJ-Crawford/768948209 C.J. Crawford

    Would you consider Lazerus A.D. as a rehash? I think they’re pretty good.
    Also I’ve heard the new Overkill record and that fucker is awesome.
    I’m not into any one scene, let along the rethrash one, but I am glad that
    Slayer, Megadeth, Testament, Exodus, Overkill and Anthrax are still around.
    Not every record from every band has been a gem, but they got some great ones too.
    Even the new ones!

    • http://alnilamcapella.blogspot.com Alnilam

      You fuckin Rule C.J. But to back the original post and the views of all that listen to bitchin’ music haters suck and good thrash is good thrash.

  • Burley

    I think part of the reason you are seeing this resurgance in “Old-school” thrash is that it sells an easily packaged image and lifestyle. Therefore, it takes very little effort for fans of this style of music to ingratiate themselves into the scene. You just buy the skinny jeans, a denim vest, a hat with the bill flipped up and cut your hari into some variation of the mullet and your in. This style lacks originality in every way.

    But I can see the appeal. Some people just don’t want creativity and ingenuity in their music, they want balls out rock. This scene definitely offers its fans a setting and opportunity to get wasted and rock out, its part of the aesthetic. If you are looking for musical innovation in this scene then you came to the wrong place.

    So in the end it becomes a take it or leave it situation. Personally I’ll pass

  • Glorious Johnson

    id rather listen to 10000 versions of black sabbath then 1 version of god forbid. pleaseandthankyou

    • teaches_of_peaches

      This and “rethrash”

      • ryan

        While I enjoy GF, I agree with you wholeheartedly Glorious. Personally, I’m thankful for the oversaturation in stoner/doom (or whatever you want to refer to it as); not everyone who plays this shit tours, and with so many bands these days I actaully get to see something live that I truly enjoy hearing every month or so.

    • http://raiseyerfists.wordpress.com Liam

      Hiyo!

  • builtforsin

    Unfortunately I feel the same with God Forbid’s music. It just sounds like generic re-hashed “tru-metal.” Boring, boring boring…

  • chauncey chompers

    I’d rather listen to even the most generic retro thrash played by 20 year olds than any band of Pantera fans.

    • SonOF

      What is a “band of Pantera fans” exactly? Is this in reference to God Forbid?

      So many people making these sweeping statements without backing anything up, it’s getting annoying..

      • Facebook User

        1

  • Geekbeater

    I am going to agree too. Most of my loyalties rest within Death Metal and “New Wave of American Heavy Metal” (Pantera, LOG Chimaira etc.) but I do enjoy some thrash. I know some of you will say “But Pantera is thrash you fucking idiot”…No they were not. They might have started as a thrash band and have some thrash elements but evolved very quickly. I think my biggest gripe is the vocals for most of the bands. Dave Mustaines voice makes me want to gouge my own eyes out with hot coals. Its that awful. With all that being said I think there are so many of these new re-thrash bands that sound exactly the same. I picked up Lazarus-AD last year and I did enjoy it i Just couldnt find myself listening to it more than a few times. I also had the displeasure of seeing Toxic Holocaust with Hatebreed this past summer and was bored to tears during their set. Seems like every other day I see an ad somewhere saying “Thrash metal to destroy the world” for some new up and coming thrash band out of Wyoming. It is ruining God Forbid is a much better band because they incorporate many more elements than strictly 80′s thrash into their albums.

    • Joshie

      You may have been one of the few, because, for the first band, Toxic Holocaust took control of the crowd like very few first bands can. Most concerts I go to, the audience just kinda stands and nods their head polietly to the opening band, but no real movement. However, Toxic Holocaust had a huge mosh pit and everyone thrashing by the second or third song. It was amazing, actually. Of course, if you were there to see Hatebreed, I could see how you could be “bored to tears” by TH. I felt the same way about Hatebreed and their clones that opened before them.

      • Geekbeater

        Your saying Dying Fetus was a clone? You are an idiot. At the show I was at not one person gave a shit about Toxic whoever. Thank you for supporting Hatebreed by buying a ticket.

        • Joshie

          No, Dying Fetus kicked ass, but Chimaira is certainly a carbon copy of Hatebreed. And I’m sure Hatebreed thanks you for supporting the band by having to pay an extra 25 bucks to the “honor” of meeting the band.

          • Slaughterhouse

            Chimaira a copy of Hatebreed!!!!!!! and I thought I’ve heard it all on here….haha

          • SonOF

            Yeah, this is a moronic statement. The only similarites between Hatebreed and Chimaira is that both bands play heavy music with guitars, bass and drums. It’s like saying Testament and Slayer are the same.:/

            Chimaira is a metal band with some hardcore influence.

            Hatebreed is pretty much a straight-up hardcore band; no solos, nothing technical, positive lyrical content

            Carbon copy? Have you heard like more than 3 songs from each of these bands?

          • Joshie

            I can’t believe there’s so much contention that these two bands don’t sound alike. I’ve heard an album from both, and if you say that Chimaira isn’t a copy of Hatebreed, you have to admit they have a lot of influence from them. I mean, just listen to their old stuff and then to The Impossibility of Reason (the album I had, pretty terrible) and they go from slightly nu-metalish to that Hatebreed sounding style. Either way, they both have that WWF metal sound that’s just a complete turn-off for me.

          • spencer

            @joshie
            listen to resurrection then! that is one of their best albums in my oppinion and damnit it sounds nothing like hatebreed

          • Geekbeater

            JOSHIE SERIOUSLY YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT LISTEN TO EITHER BAND. CHIMAIRA SOUNDS NOTHING LIKE HATEBREED. DO THE WORLD A FAVOR AND STOP LISTENING TO METAL. YOU ARE THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT GIVES METAL A BAD NAME. GO PICK UP A NICKELBACK RECORD AND CUDDLE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND YOU FUCKING MORON.

          • SonOF

            Josh:

            I’m assuming that you are saying that Chimaira developed a “Hatebreed sounding style” with their second full length (“Impossibility of Reason”) because they have hardcore style breakdowns accompanying their metal? This makes it sound like you believe that Hatebreed invented this style or something, so if Chimaira sounds remotely similar (which I don’t agree with anyhow), it is because they were influenced by Hatebreed. I guess you are unfamiliar with hardcore or metal in general, because thousands of other bands implement similar techniques as Hatebreed (ie every metalcore or metal hardcore hybrid EVER), and it’s VERY likely that they were NOT influenced by Hatebreed. Hatebreed were not pioneers by any stretch of the imagination. You really need to expand your musical horizons before making such ridiculous generalizations. Also, go listen to Chimaira’s self-titled album, Resurrection as well as The Infection, and see that the only similarities to Hatebreed is that both bands are heavy, have screaming vocals, and have breakdowns. Chimaira is FAR more technical than Hatebreed (and Chimaira isn’t even that technical, just in comparison to HB). If you wanted to compare Chimaira to another band that they probably WERE actually influenced by, you might say Pantera or Machine Head; I wouldn’t necessarily agree with those comparisons, but at least they would make sense. Chimaira and Hatebreed actually came around at almost the same time (Hatebreed a little earlier); they are actually peers, so it is unlikely Chimaira was heavily influenced by Hatebreed; more likely, Chimaira was influenced by some of the same bands that influenced Hatebreed.

            If you REALLY want to hear a band that is “a copy” of Hatebreed, go listen to Throwdown, or First Blood (or thousands of others), then realize how far off your Chimaira comparison is.

          • Ronnie

            WHAT”S WRONG WITH NICKLEBACK AND CUDDLING?!?!?

    • http://www.metalsucks.net DeaThrash

      I have to agree that Dave Mustaines voice is awful, ruins the whole band for me. As for Toxic Holocaust, they kick ass and are more than just rethrash, they are genuinely good metal. I would rather see bands like Toxic Holocaust or Warbringer that are actually talented young guys playing good metal. Than see anyo of the crappy deathcore bands like Suicide Silence or Carnifex. Now that shit is getting old but with any genre there are some good ones and some bad ones. In the rethrash sub-genre Lazarus AD are a damn boring “rethrash” band, I have seen them 3 times now opening for various shows and they just seem like amateurs up there saying “drink beer and smoke weed” all the time. Also, there are no thrash bands that have made it big out of Wyoming. Lastly, God Forbid sucks ass. They are in my opinion garbage watered down third rate metalcore. They have terrible vocals and just seem generic and boring. Also, Chimaira and Hatebreed have something else in common. Frank from Hatebreed and the red headed guitar player from Chimaira were in Ringworm together.

      • Geekbeater

        that dosnt mean their bands sound alike at all. They literally have none of the same similarities except that they are both heavy. So in that case 100000 bands all sound alike.

  • Geekbeater

    I am going to agree too. Most of my loyalties rest within Death Metal and “New Wave of American Heavy Metal” (Pantera, LOG Chimaira etc.) but I do enjoy some thrash. I know some of you will say “But Pantera is thrash you fucking idiot”…No they were not. They might have started as a thrash band and have some thrash elements but evolved very quickly. I think my biggest gripe is the vocals for most of the bands. Dave Mustaines voice makes me want to gouge my own eyes out with hot coals. Its that awful. With all that being said I think there are so many of these new re-thrash bands that sound exactly the same. I picked up Lazarus-AD last year and I did enjoy it i Just couldnt find myself listening to it more than a few times. I also had the displeasure of seeing Toxic Holocaust with Hatebreed this past summer and was bored to tears during their set. Seems like every other day I see an ad somewhere saying “Thrash metal to destroy the world” for some new up and coming thrash band out of Wyoming. It is becoming very over saturated.

    • Geekbeater

      HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THE AD ON THE MAIN PAGE OF THIS SITE. IT’S FOR TOXIC HOLOCAUST AND IT STATES THAT ARE MEAN AND EXTREMELY EVIL. LOL. GIVE ME A BREAK.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Morley/618112437 William Morley

    Personally I’m a fan on the whole thrash revival thing, the current movement has spawned a lot of good bands imo. Fans of any popular trend can be annoying however anyway, and as far as I’ve encountered, emo/metalcore/nu-metal fans are far more annoying than any thrash fans, new or old. But at the end of the day, I guess its always been the same, just look at glam rock or grunge fans.

    And for the record, I like Toxic Holocaust.

  • David

    If you are a ‘Faux Hipster’ what does that make you….a real fan? Patrick’s right, you need to get your thoughts straight before you write your next article.

  • http://lreagins@gmail.com SKlives

    God Forbid I have to listen to another boring, generic, and empty album.
    Don’t underestimate the kids, they are on it (some of em).
    They know when they are getting fed corporate shit.

  • Nostradumbass

    The one key issue with retreading the past in any style of music, not just metal, is that you can not recreate the past. Having been around when thrash was coming to be it was something new and never really heard before. It also was a direct slap in the face to all the glam that was everywhere then. So basically we were all being exposed to something that we never heard/seen before and it was an answer to something we hated.

    At the time it was a really big deal to see guys out there in t-shirts and jeans playing this music that you loved. Before that everyone was wearing spandex, leather, Aqua-Net and so on. These musicians looked like you and your friends that you hung out with drinking in the woods or whatever.

    So for me this whole ReThrash thing is kind of “who cares, been there, done that”. It is also weird because I don’t get the whole wearing back patches and high-tops again thing. Sure, that was my uniform back then but it came and went. At the time I was also really into Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin (still am) but never once had the desire to wear bell bottoms and platform shoes.

    If you do a little digging there’s plenty of new stuff out there and it’s a lot easier to find then when I was a kid. Thing is, sadly, it’s easier to push and/or latch onto something that’s already proven then something that is not for a lot of people.

  • Joshie

    You know, I don’t see the problem with ReThrash. Now, I know that the genre has it’s own terrible bands, just as any genre does. However, when it comes time to enjoy music, the whole purpose of music, I want to listen to the metal I like, and I like thrash metal. I don’t listen to it and contemplate the deep imagery and the complexities of the time signitures, I listen to it to rock out. Municipal Waste, Toxic Holocaust, Skeletonwitch, and a bit of Warbringer have the “fuck art, let’s rock” attitude about music, and that’s what I love. When I want art, I’ll listen to some Waits or Floyd, or for metal Mastodon. When it’s time to rock, Toxic Holocaust goes on.

    • izzo

      hell yeah man i totally agree with ya. while having some art with your metal is always a good thing, sometimes you just gotta let loose and break shit. and yeah toxic holocaust fucking owns!

  • Watt Par

    I think you are crying over spilled milk. If you don’t like it. Don’t listen to it. Why give it the time of day? If it’s really as throw-away as you make it out to be, it will be gone soon anyway, right?

  • Vakarm

    i completely agree with this article…the old thrash metal bands are releasing killer stuff right now. And as for those hipsters that he mentions, i know the type: most of them don’t even listen to the good modern metal stuff like Gojira, Lamb of God or even In Flames and the like.

    Those people say they listen to “pure, real metal”, but what they don’t realise is that metal existed before thrash, and they were called Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Motorhead. But they can’t stand to listen to things that good

    BTW, i hate toxic holocaust, enjoy some Municipal Waste and Austrian Death Machine…….but thats about it. My thrash metal is original thrash metal

  • thehatemachine

    I saw God forbid with Death Angel several months ago. weird crowd at that show. Tons of really young kids who didnt have a clue who death angel was. God Forbid was the headliner which to me was kinda dumb. Death Angel blew those guys off the stage period. All new metal is devoid of real emotion i think. The first several rows were all dudes in their 30′s that remember the old days of thrash and came to see a band rip their faces off.(that being Death Angel) I tried to hang out for God Forbid but, honestly they like alot of newer bands were missing the key ingredient to making a good metal show. Charisma and music with real feeling not rehashed riffs played by people who played at the music not played the music. Like i said, most of the crowd was under 21 and by the time god forbid came on stage they all had to leave the bar. All of the older guys left after Death Angel so they ended up playing to an almost empty room.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Fritz-Pettersen/536945538 Fritz Pettersen

    I totaly agree with Coyle! The again, we could spend a whole lot of time naggin’ about this, but in a few flashes there will be another anoying trend thing taking its place. I’m just glad the whole re-regrunge have’nt hit us yet!

    • Djangus Khan

      Just by uttering the term “regrunge” your probably starting the scene already…

  • Ziltoid

    I hate these revivals as well, especially ReThrash. They have brought nothing to the table, and people won’t shut up about the bands for some unknown reason. But the older bands aren’t doing anything worthwhile either (with Megadeth being the closest to tolerable these days). Thrash is dead. It died before the 90s. All of these new bands simply don’t have the emotion in their music that a lot of 80s thrash did. As a result, the music sounds much more sterile and lifeless. But out of nostalgia, of course, people are eating this shit up because it’s at least closer to the 80s sound than what the 80s bands are producing today.

    As for stoner rock, I agree 100%. Nothing new. Boring, Sabbath rip-offs.

    And I’m guessing that the next revival will be traditional/NWOBHM type stuff. THAT revival will be a pain to endure.

    • http://www.last.fm/user/M60Patton Patton

      I fucking hope not! Although with all the little fuckers being obsessed with Iron Maiden I can see it happening in near future.
      No hard feelings to IM though, they are a great band.
      I just hope we dont have a nu-metal or grunge revival any time before the end of the world.

      • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

        It’s a little late for that… Limp Bizkit’s recording a new album, Crazy Town is reuniting… I’ve also heard rumors of four horsemen galloping across the plains.

        • Jugglemonkey

          Just wondering, but if a thrash revival is reThrash, would a nu-metal revival be reNu?

          That sounded better in my head.

        • http://www.last.fm/user/M60Patton Patton

          If we’re lucky the apocalypse will happen before the new LB album comes out.

  • SHOCKTROOP

    any type of metal snobbery is to me both hilarious, sad, and bizarre all at the same type. and most of all pathetic.

  • SP420

    You should have complained more about the stoner rock/metal scene. That’s something that’s been an unsung joke in music for the 20 or so years it’s been around and NO ONE has had balls to properly denigrate this scene.

  • The Overmatt

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that way about the Stoner Metal scene. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Eyehategod and High on Fire, but it’s a genre that people seem to be crucified if they ever shit-talk it, despite the fact that the whole genre lacks originality about as badly, if not worse, than the Re-Thrash scene. I’d say there’s even another slight against ‘em in that most of the Stoner Metal bands are just flat-out boring.

    • Dubs

      The issue I see with hating on stoner and doom metal is they’re all based off of ONE BAND. You can hate on nu-thrash or whatever all you want. But stoner and doom bands are an extension of Sabbath, just sabbath. That style of music is needed because sabbath’s sound would be dead. And for the record Saint Vitus sound different from Pentagram who sound different from Kyuss who sound different from Electric Wizard who bla bla bla. They all have a unique sound, it’s like saying all death metal ripped off Slayer or Possessed.

  • tomaashamilton

    ReThrash is championed by people who are secretly embarrassed by how lame via significant historical ignorance their musical tastes are so they compensate by mutating, overnight, into arm-crossing, attitude-bearing, retro-loving purists.

    People who enjoy it often do because it’s got some appeal, sure. It’s not groundbreaking, but some ReThrash bands do display talent, and that’s enough to bring people back for a listen.

    Talent, on it’s own, isn’t enough, though. I would agree that lots of non-ReThrash bands are just as zipped of charisma and die-hard passion for their music as the ReThrashers. Both are treading thinly on new ground and thickly on old. So much metal is living in this historical time warp. And so talent doesn’t equal groundbreaking music. And is it human to feel passionately about copying someone else? The thing I hate in metal, these days, is when passion is replaced by the excitement for and feeling of superiority. When ReThrash bands, and their non-RT counterparts, successfully copy their idols, it’s like they start to believe that they ARE these great titans of metal, and suddenly their cool as an ice-pop perched in a freezer shelf. And you see them excited onstage because they’re living a fantasy they first developed when they were once in the crowd, watching Hetfield or Hammet, and wanting desperately the glory of being God.

    That’s what’s wrong in metal, these days. There’s very little immediacy in it.

    Purists are too buried in their immature, childish bullshit to display awareness of any of this. They’re posture-frenzied little pissheads. But they’re simply part of a larger problem in metal, which is that it’s kinda lost right now. To find direction, they’ve gone on a quest to find what IS metal, and because they’re a bunch of undersexed, underdeveloped, hormone-driven bucket-brains, that quest converges with their teenage need for dominance. And so, that quest for what IS metal becomes about proving that they’re into the BEST metal. And in a sea of opinions, afcionado websites and blogs making “best of” lists, where words like “immitator” are thrown around and make very talented bands seem like schmucks, the only metal that consistently rises above all are the classics. I guess the RT punks think they’ve found the BEST metal in the classics. Maybe they’re too dumbed by age to see the irony in nostaligizing for a time they didn’t live in, for championing ReThrash despite it’s immitator status, and for generally displaying laughable, worth-mocking behaviour.

    But they’re just pawns in metal’s larger identity crisis.

    And I think metal’s preoccupation itself is the problem.

    Ohwned.

    • http://www.myspace.com/badkarma619 Alan

      Hahahahaha. You singlehandedly stopped this thread from being a waste.

      “And I think metal’s preoccupation itself is the problem.”

      Thanks for that. Metalheads need to spend more time feeling the mood and really listening to metal, and less time bullshitting about it.

      • tomaashamilton

        I can’t be the only one that’s tired of hearing the bullshit.

        And I can’t be the only one who’s felt that more than once.

        That should’ve been “preoccupation with itself”.

        And don’t people tire of bullshitting? Doesn’t it stop feeling satisfying?

    • Noel

      thanks you, tomaashamilton. i agree whole heartedly. its funny, the title of this website has turned from a funny quip, to an aboslute truth. metal trully does suck…i mean, i love the music, at least some of it, mainly older music, but as far as the magaizines, the image, the fakeness, even the shows are fake. metal sucks.

  • Bicro

    Why MW when we still have Testament?

    • Genial Gentile

      Or the entire D.R.I. discography?

    • AATHD

      Same thing with warbringer. Kreator is still around, making warbringer useless.

      • SP420

        That would be true if Kreator didn’t suck.

  • Brownsound

    When was the last time metal spawned something completely new? New Wave of American Heavy Metal?

    You’ve got all the popular genre mashups starting with nu-metal, then metalcore, deathcore, sumeriancore, etc.. what would even qualify as being the next big thing?

    • AF720

      Mastodon has come the closest to creating a new subgenre of metal. I know that many Mastodon fans are crucified here for being hipsters, but I am hard-pressed to come up with records like Blood Mountain or Crack the Skye, which are simultaneously hard, melodic, and progressive. I expect a number of bands in the next 10 years to attempt this style, and whalecore will reign supreme.

  • http://lordsofmetal.nl/index.php?lang=en Cavorka

    My problem with the ‘ReThrash’ scene is not that it’s unoriginal, the thing for me is that they are just not as good as the old shit, or new shit by old bands.
    I still didn’t hear anything coming close to Tempo Of The Damned or Order Of The Illuminati, as far as new 21st century Thrash albums go, let alone old thrash albums

  • Sammy

    As some of the more astute comments above have stated, most of these sub-genres have bands worth listening to because they re-hash but also bring a new energy or other influences into the mix, but also completely derivative garbage. A few years ago, Australia brought us AC/DC clones one after the other and these bands were somehow championed as groundbreaking retro bands, which is an oxymoron.

    As someone who tries to live mostly in the IS and not the WAS, some nostalgia isn’t lost on me, which is why I still listen to Priest and Maiden. But retro anything should be tempered with something fresh to grab my attention.

    • tomaashamilton

      Returning to retro was groundbreaking because certain ways of doing it hadn’t been considered until those Aussie bands did it. Take the mountain of shit that is (was?) Jet. That shit gets tired very quickly. But at the time it was the idea of what those bands were that was groundbreaking. Otherwise, yes, oxymoronic.

      And we’re living in the time when the idea of a band, often like the idea of a girl, distracts from the reality.

      But I guess since the kids who latched onto these retro bands didn’t live in the creation days, the spirit and the energy seems new to them, and so as aggravating logical has it, those bands were popular and our age looked stupider and hollower than it’d ever been.

      And these days when there’s too many bands doing too many different things, by law of math it’s hard to escape your influences. But everyone does have a unique story to tell. It’s when the copycat desire becomes too strong amongst too many people that an entire scene of musicians can enable each other to be err on the side of what’s proven to work as opposed to telling a true story.

  • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

    There’s a lot of stoner rock bands that don’t sound like Sabbath… I don’t think CLutch has ever sounded like Sabbath. It’s more the doom metal bands.

    Stoner rock bands do tend to sound a lot alike… but the genre has mutated into something different.

    • aids robot

      yeah but doom metal is faptastic

  • Ahab

    “Not to play favorites, but I am also equally bothered by the metal media’s constant stroking of the stoner rock scene, AKA 10,000 bands that all sound like Black Sabbath.”

    And this is where i stopped reading this pathetic diatribe of some bitter asshole who’s fallen behind the fucking curve.

  • trapped

    Sooo if thrash was a response to glam why can’t we just respect the thrash revival for being in total opposition to metalcore and its ilk? I’d take Rumpelstiltskin Grinder over As I Lay Dying any day of the week or God Forbid for that matter.

  • ferocious_fetus

    HA. I was at that Los Angeles Anthrax show Doc mentioned.
    I was only 21 at the time and being a relatively fresh faced dude myself, was AMAZED at the number of “thrash kids” there. That was also my first time seeing the retro legion in action. I think God Forbid was touring on Constitution at this point so they were playing some tunes I wasn’t familiar with/ didn’t care for but still enjoyed their set for the most part. The kids on the floor didn’t really have any reaction to the band until they did their Pantera cover near the end.

    • Biff Tannen

      God Forbid does Pantera covers?? HA !! Why would an already SHITTY,SHITTY band want to pour a hot pile of steaming shit on themselves as an encore?

  • http://www.kingdomofnoise.blogspot.com MetalMatt

    I wasn’t really around for the first wave of thrash. Master of Puppets came out when I was 8. But I like it anyway. The Big 4 are great and I own almost all their cds. missing a couple Anthrax.
    as for the new wave, I really enjoy it. Not all of it though. I don’t read as many metal blogs/sites/zines to get overwhelmed by it all. And I don’t like rethrash bands just because they are new thrash. So really, I don’t look at it as a sub-genre as much as others. If I like it, I like it.
    Like: Blood Tsunami, Skeletonwitch (not quite thrash), Mantic Ritual, Warbringer…
    Not like: Municipal Waste (sue me), Iron Age, and a bunch of other I don’t even remember.

    I used to be a big stoner rock fan. BIG. But it got saturated with sameness. Like exactly the sameness.

  • Facebook User

    wonderful read. thanks. that made way too much sense though cuz now all these ex-emo-turn-thrteash kids are gonna be mad at you hahahahahahha

  • BTK666

    FINALLY, THE TRUTH!!!!

  • joeshmo

    i dont mind rethrash,but i HATE metalcore and screamo,so id rather hear kids playing thrash than stupidass “metalcore” or “deathcore” or screamo bullshit

    at least these thrash bands dont look like complete idiots with side parted hair,skinny sissy jeans,and dumbass affliction shirts

    • http://myspace.com/duckbillz Duck Billz

      True, these thrash bands are completely different-looking idiots.

    • aids robot

      i think you mixed a few stereotypes there

  • http://myspace.com/northwestroyale Blake

    I pick and choose from different genres. It’s like when death metal became oversaturated back in the early ’90s (anyone remember JL America and all the cheese-tastic bands they released?) — eventually the cream rises to the top and the rest falls away.

    Personally, I think the interest in thrash is fuckin’ awesome. I remember back when no one cared about it anymore. Me, I kept listening to my Forced Entry and Testament tapes. As soon as I heard Lazarus AD, I felt much better about the genre again. They put their own spin on it, in a way.

  • Sven

    There’s so much genre-blurring nowadays, and so many bands releasing albums, that I take a lot of what I read in the “metal media” with huge grains of salt. One writer might think a band sounds an awful lot like XXXX and I might completely disagree. So many stoner-rock bands get labeled as “sabbathy” when nothing could be further from the truth, which I chalk up to lazy journalism, or at least putting the sound in terms which most people understand.

    I’d honestly like to know which bands he’s talking about. If you’re going to throw mud, at least have the courage of conviction to name names, and say which bands he thinks are bullshit. Are Baroness and Mastodon lumped in there with The Sword? What about Early Man, who are somehow stoner-rock AND thrash (and awesome for that matter)?

    About the reaction of fans seeing Anthrax, I honestly don’t know what you would expect, opening for a bay-area thrash era retro-act. No one was there to see God Forbid or Sworn Enemy on that tour. I know I wasn’t! Saw that tour in Allentown at the shitty-ass Croc Rock, and I remember being utterly baffled by the lineup, and the relatively uncrowded floor until every hillbilly douchebag in A-town seemed to flood the place for Anthrax.

    They say people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I say Killswitch Engage make albums that sound like a weak rehash of Killswitch Engage, and really not much different from stoner bands that rip off Sabbath or “rethrash” bands ripping off Exodus. Even so-called progressive bands find their way through familiar territory tread upon by Genesis and Rush.

    Anyone mourning originality in metal, or music in general needs a major wakeup call. So long as music is played with certain standard instruments and scales, there’s going to be some commonalities from generation to generation.

    There’s a reason why the wheel hasn’t been reinvented. It doesn’t mean people don’t try, but the design is well proven.

    • evilfatguy

      Listen to Clown Core on YouTube. They will blow you awayyyyy!

  • narcopolypse

    wow how sad for doc. the new generation of metal listeners want to listen to energetic and fun thrash, not the woe-is-me temper tantrums of immaculately-groomed guys in tight affliction t-shirts playing 17th generation pantera riffs while flexing. this editorial shares a tone with GF’s music: self-pity.

    make good records, god forbid. good records render trends obsolete.

    • SonOF

      I’m not trying to kiss Doc’s ass or anything, but I think Earthsblood is better (and far more original) than anything that has come out of the thrash revival. If you disagree, please point me to a neo thrash album I should be listening to, because nothing I have heard is very interesting at all.

      I’m not a huge thrash fan to begin with, but I wish more of these new thrash bands would add some original aspects to their music. Everything I have heard sounds so generic, nothing I haven’t heard 10-15 years ago (and it was probably better then).

    • evilfatguy

      I thought rethrashing was all about 17th generation Pantera riffs?

  • SonOF

    I have no problem with “revivals” of any kind if it means more quality music. If you like thrash, and there is more good thrash around then before, how is this a problem? Same goes for stoner rock/metal..

    It does annoy me a bit when journalists or others in the media don’t make reference to the fact that a lot of these bands are rehashes of old stuff….I don’t mind these bands getting props for making good music, but don’t make it sound as if anything they are doing is innovative or original….I guess this is what Doc is annoyed at, the fact that these bands are getting far too much credit for essentially copying an old idea while other artists are out there truly trying to create original stuff..

    One thing I wonder is whether these bands formed and/or started making this type of music because they realized a certain genre/trend was hot at the momet and wanted to capitalize, OR they were already playing this type of music and finally got recognized because the type of music they play suddenly became popular.

    I obviously have a lot more respect for a band that has been playing thrash for a while and finally got more recognition, gigs, exposure, etc. because this movement/revival has evolved and they happened to be at the right place at the right time VS a band that’s sole purpose IS to capitalize on this trend/revival and formed (or altered their style) for that reason….

  • evilfatguy

    Thrash will always be thrash. When there’s more to it or it’s original, people call it something else. Personally, I haven’t really been into thrash for about ten years, but I’ll always have a place for it in my heart. As for something someone near the top said, I fully agree on the ambivalence front; I see this thrash movement as a new deathcore movement. It’s something for the scene kids to feel sceney about and for us oldass jaded fucks to throw our dentures at.

  • Discipleofthewatch

    I love the thrash metal! Old and new. Was just listening to Havok last night. Good stuff. I’ll be seeing Testament, Megadeth, and Slayer as well as Exodus and Arch Enemy soon. And the other bands they’re playing with, Arsis and Mutiny Within, I think? Not as familiar with them but I like what little I’ve heard.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Will-Sutphin/29706363 Will Sutphin

    Municipal Waste!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Will-Sutphin/29706363 Will Sutphin

      I love BOOBS. I don’t over analyze these. Why? Because I could wide up thinking to much about it and in the end just wanna swallow a dick sandwich, okay probably not. But do you get the point?
      I think you can do the same with metal. Don’t over analyze scenes, its all for fun. Feel free to hate on dumb bands though. lol. Five Finger Death Punch, Die!!!

      • thehatemachine

        Mcpenis filet.

    • dan

      is gonna f*ck you up!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Devon-Czekaj/550092101 Devon Czekaj

    I’d rather have Bay Area/Teutonic Thrash clones over Pantera clones any day.

  • Seth

    I cant believe nobody has flamed him for using and Emmure song title as his headline

    • Natsquatch

      That’s actually a Dave Chappelle quote bud.

    • SonOF

      haha Emmure fan spotted..

      • Seth

        Haha no, im not an Emmure fan actually. Iv’e also never really watched Dave Chappelle, but ill have to check him out.

        • SonOF

          I HIGHLY suggest gettiing each of the seasons of Chappelle’s show ASAP and watching them; you will not be disappointed. Maybe the best comedy show (and easliy the best sketch comedy) of the last ten years. I don’t know how you missed it when it was on, but go watch it, you won’t regret it.

          • izzo

            hell yeah, that show was fucking amazing!

            “what did the 5 fingers say to the face?”

            *smacks dude* “SLAP!”

  • Facebook User

    Finally, someone who agrees with me. I fucking HATE the re-thrash movement – Especially Municipal Waste. Maybe it’s because I was never as into Pantera/Megadeth/Slayer as other guys were, but I hate this new movement.

  • sYgnal

    Did this guy really just say that Megadeth & Metallica are holding down the fort when it comes to Thrash?!
    Maybe I need to get my ears checked but not only did the new Megadeth & Metallica albums suck, they were as far from Thrash as any album could could be. You can keep your “New Approach” mentality – I’d take the new “ReThrash” (MW,National Suicide) over that tired garbage any day.

    • sYgnal

      *BTW* is that a pic of the dude from God Forbid? If it is, then what’s up with the “Flyin V” Mr. Retro Hater?!

      • tomaashamilton

        Isn’t it REALLY obvious that the FV-bearing dude is Doc Coyle, of God Forbid? DUDE! You’re stoned.

        And who the fucks cares if he’s holding a “flying-V”? Maybe if you’d said a “thrash-decorated” flying-V I might’ve been partially with you on that point, but he’s not a fucking hyp for bearing playing a thrash-styled guitar. Is his band considerably ReThrash? We’re talking pure-form, not thrash-influenced. That argument flew like a newborn blue blue jay and swan-dived like an anvil-bearing Greg Louganis. C’mon dude, wake the fuck up.

        And I disagree that Endgame sucked. Say whatever the hell you want, you’re wrong unless you can pull a significant real gripe from a listen. I won’t settle for any morsel-brained bullshit. Don’t tell me “Rust in Peace was better”. I’ll fucking get really angry. You’re not even listening if you say that. It’s stagnated attitudes like that that are de-spiriting metal. Endgame’s not great throughout, but is a very fun and rewarding listen worth blaring in your car and letting move you like a frenzied wobbing and bobbing, red-cave-dwelling. gibbering goblin – when it’s good.

        • sYgnal

          “Whoa … Dude!” – What, Are we in California? Gimme a break! If I’m stoned then you need to lay off the Meth, you freak! Type much?? I think you need to re-read the article and get your God Forbid fanboy head out yer ass!

          Doc’s gripe was that these “ReThrash” bands don’t bring anything new to the table. Personally, I think they incorporate much more hardcore punk then their predecessors did,but that’s my opinion – Dude! So, who makes a new model of the Flying V any differently then they used to? Yea,ok,so my second comment was a little retarded but so is this guy’s gripe that the new thrash bands haven’t changed the recipe. Why fix something that was never broken to begin with. It was the “great” Metallica and company who went on to release shitty non-thrash albums and forget their roots. So, I’m all for these bands releasing the albums that I waited an eternity for those “Big 4″ fucking assholes to make and THEY NEVER DID!!

          “It’s stagnated attitudes like that that are de-spiriting metal”

          Ah….NO! It’s the pompous, loyalist attitudes like yours and Doc’s that are killing the spirit of metal. The new Megadeth album is hardly fucking thrash and just because you can get all retarded like the Geico caveman in your car to it, doesn’t mean it is worthy of me wasting anymore of my time waiting for that shit on a disc to rock my fucking world. You’re right… I wouldn’t even bother comparing “Endgame” to “Rust in Peace” because the latter was relevant when I was fucking 16 and there were no other bands releasing killer shit like that back then. BUT, that’s not true anymore and Megadeth has just now recovered from a 15+ year train wreck of shitty albums to finally give us MetalHeads something that would’ve blown me away if it came out after “R.I.P.” instead of that piece of shit entitled “Countdown”. NOOOO, they had to follow the trend because back in the 90′s the US had their heads up their asses with the whole grunge scene and we still don’t have a fucking clue about METAL never mind Thrash! I bet you’re same type of motherfucker who would make excuses for the latest AC/DC – “Well, I can rock with my cock out,so it must be fucking great!”

          As far as I’m concerned, unless Doc and his pals release a God Forbid album that has the balls like “Determination” they will probably continue to slope like their idols did! SO, He shouldn’t be so concerned with the “ReThrash” scene.

          • tomaashamilton

            Hah, loyalist? Pffft. I’ll like me those select Endgame tracks and wear me a soccer-mom toupee while swilling rum-and-coke and eating a pickle sandwich next to my Triumph-blaring ghetto blaster, thank-you-very-much!

            Did I mention I murder emo kids dressed in faux-leather, butt-cracked pants?

          • sYgnal

            …”And The Most Fucked-Up Random Post Award goes to”

            Have I mentioned that I have flushed bigger shits than you by breakfast time? Fucking internet tough guys, you gotta love’em….

          • sYgnal

            *Um…Duh* Yup, I just got your sarcasm. Boy, I feel like an idiot.

            Honestly, that’s not what I meant by loyalist unless you really do murder emo kids dressed in faux-leather, butt-cracked pants, then by all means continue your mission from God.

          • tomaashamilton

            Ma-ma-ma-mur-DAH!

  • thethingonthesignerforportalshead

    Anyone who wears an Affliction,Ed Hardy,or Tapout shirt needs to die painfully supporting that utter and complete douchebag guido looking garbage

    • Mike Arose

      Yes yes they definitely do. Also very slowly to add to that

  • thethingonthesignerforportalshead

    Seth-

    I dont think anyone who knows an Emmure song title has the right to give somebody shit for using it as a headline

    • Seth

      Ok, good point, the only reason i know it is cause i do have a couple of scene friend. There not ALL bad. and plus i wasn’t giving him shit for it. i was simply pointing it out. And this is the internet, I have the right to do whatever the fuck I want.

    • Genial Gentile

      It’s the title of a series of skits from Chappelle Show.

  • Gideon

    Vektor and Lethal Strike are the 2 best new thrash bands.

  • FuckJuggaBlows

    I just bought white high top reeboks yesterday

  • thethingonthesignerforportalshead

    you should straighten your “scene” friends out,that shit is absolutely stupid

    if i had a friend who listened to that shit and dressed like a complete sissy,id at least try to straighten them out

    • Seth

      Hey man, I wouldnt want them trying to change me, so why would I try to change them?

  • thethingonthesignerforportalshead

    you should try to change them because theyre into “scene” and that shit is stupid

    it would make you a good friend,cuz friends dont let friends wear girls pants and have sissy haircuts,and listen to stupid idiot “scene” bands like suicide silence and emmure

  • Seth

    good friend also dont try to change there friends lifestyles. For instance, i think christianity is just as dumb as “scene”, does that mean I try to change them? No, because i would expect the same courtesy from them. I dont try to change my friend to all fit my life style, because that would be just dumb, I dont want all of my friends to be just like me.

  • Dezzrek

    I don’t see the problem with the thrash revival. Most of the bands are underground and haven’t received much mainstreem success besides M.W. Besides, I’d rather listen to a 80s thrash metal rip-off than this deathcore/screamo shit. Just because it’s a new genre doesn’t make it original or creative.

  • 5.T.4.L.k.E.R

    A post a day keeps the MetalSucks readers away.

    what the fuck are you guys doing down there??? we need more posts!

  • Some Random Dude

    yeah whatever. I still like stoner metal.

  • http://www.myspace.com/themorbidkiller Joey

    Yeah, I think the Re-Thrash scene is crap for most part and unnecessary.

  • Skeletonwitchcraft

    Lazarus A.D.

    that is all

    • Discipleofthewatch

      I love those guys!

  • Sandman

    Seriously? Re-thrash? I find it hilarious that it’s actually a scene in some places. The way people dressed in the 80′s was embarrassing then and still is now. I love these new thrash bands and the old ones and while I don’t see much difference between the new era and the old I welcome having more of it. Thrash is good shit.

    Plus, I’d rather pay $15 to see bands like Warbringer, Iron Age, Toxic Holocaust, Mantic Ritual ect. than pay almost $100 to see Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sara-Petrocelli/519197405 Sara Petrocelli

    Nothing wrong with rethrash. I personally don’t like a lot of new metal. You know what I like? Balls to the wall rocking out. That’s why I dig on a lot of thrash, new and old. I’ve always been more taken by thrash and classic metal bands. That’s something I can dig in metal. I give different bands a chance but I don’t feel it. You gotta feel the tunes. I need riffs, I need solos, I need just good, fun songs. (P.S. I can’t stand Municipal Waste…saw them live opening for Lamb of God and they don’t bring it live. At all.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Rull/41500239 Joe Rull

      you must have been asleep then, they were incredible on that tour.

    • shit sandwich

      (P.S. I can’t stand Municipal Waste…saw them live opening for Lamb of God and they don’t bring it live. At all.)

      HAHAHA i call bullshit. its cool if you dont like them or whatever, but their live-show is ridiculous. as in ridiculously drunken awesome

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sara-Petrocelli/519197405 Sara Petrocelli

        I definitely wasn’t sleeping. I was drinking! Haha. They didn’t bring it on the show I went to and that really bummed me out because I dug the albums. That show pretty much ruined them for me.

  • Chimp-0-Neg

    If it kicks ass then it’s ok in my book. Who fucking cares if some journalist says they’re part of some new wave of whatever. The music should speak for itself. Elitism is for uptight pussies.

  • I killed a Dunky

    ITS DIC 31 DUDES DRINK PARTY ON!! N HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! BE SAFE//HELLO FROM DOMINICAN REPUBLIC**CAPS ON CAUSE IM SCREAMING XD

    • SomeKid

      CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

  • SolaceInNothing

    If you look at a genre of music and see it as some kind of badge or purpose instead of just another avenue of entertainment, then you are wrong period.

    Metal is about community NOT competition.

    P.S. I saw GF live at Starland and they did indeed “bring it.”

  • http://www.theatomicbombaudition.com Aleezy

    “Now I know what you’re all thinking – “This dude has sour grapes because all these retro bands are getting more fanfare than his band.” And you are all exactly right. =)”

    Yup, that’s how I feel too! My band is trying to come up in SF and sometimes I wonder if we dressed better and hewed more to a classic stoner rock feel or were playing black metal or just generally had a cogent bandwagon that we could jump onto, revivalist or otherwise, we’d have a much easier time marketing ourselves.

    I think this is a common musician gripe and it probably always will be. Unfortunately, musicians are the only ones griping about this state of affairs most of the time. People like what they like and rarely care that they’re getting a re-tread.

    It’s certainly frustrating that blogs and sites like Pitchfork LOSE THEIR FUCKING MINDS over any deft re-hash instead of seeking the rare birds and touting bands that might go over people’s heads initially. The role of the critic is in a crisis.

    Shit if the guy from God Forbid is bumming about this climate, I don’t stand a fucking chance… :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aaron-Javis-Davis/732759369 Aaron Javis Davis

    I think its pretty nice that Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax are finally doing new albums. I don’t mind any rehashes or revival. As long as genres like “Crunkcore” does not gain more popularity i’m good. I mean seriously what kind of music mixes screaming kids and candy rap that talks nothing more than how they try to get laid and get fucked up.

  • Noel

    “my real beef is with metal critics, blogs, websites, industry aficionados, and publications, all of which tend to have an over reaching obsession with nostalgia”

    i think its more of an obsession with money. this is what the 16 yr olds are buying, so, naturally, the market pushes it and pushes it and hypes it up until people realize its somthing that was already here 20 yrs ago. Personally, i hate all these fuckin bands. its ridiculous that they get signed and become huge[in metal] and original bands that dont ride a trend wave sometimes get unoticed…….ps. yea, i miss chappelle show too.

  • joshkid

    Revocation is the ReThrash (if you would call it that) that we need today. Taking thrash to a whole notha level!!!

    P.S. And Sylosis too.

  • Beauzaque

    I would probably enjoy me some rethrash if it were just redoing the same shit we’ve heard before, but in my opinion they’re taking what’s been done and dumbing it way the fuck down. I haven’t heard anything on the scale of Puppets or Peace Sells, and we probably won’t before this trend dries up.

    • Genial Gentile

      You’re absolutely right, the quality and musicianship is rarely on par with the original thrash acts.

    • sYgnal

      I can see your POV,but, how are these bands supposed to create something better than “Master…” or “Peace Sells…”?! I mean, Heavy Metal (or Power Metal, whatever) continues down the same path and there hasn’t been any bands that created anything better than “Powerslave” or “Painkiller” but it is still a great genre to listen to because a lot of these new bands create music that is right on par with the old stuff. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if you’re going to fuse styles then by all means go ahead but if you like the straightforward Thrash then these new bands do a pretty dam good job of working with a style that isn’t broken. Honestly, Thrash had such a short lived life that I just see this new wave as a continuance NOT a rehash! All those old bands tried so hard to progress and evolve that they lost their way…IMHO.

  • Doc Coyle

    I knew this blog would ruffle some feathers, but I would like to clarify a few points.

    1. I don’t see how I contradicted myself. I simply took you through my thought process which involves a thorough examination of the pros and cons of this particular subject. I initially thought I was bothered by the music and realized that it was more the overt praise of the genre. I actually LIKE the bands and thrash music itself. That point seemed to glaze over several of you. I just gave you a glance into my internal dialogue. Sometimes, you have to that the time to figure out if you like something and we all the right to change our minds.

    2. This has nothing really to do with God Forbid. I tried some to inflect some self deprecating humor and basically poke fun at myself, with an anecdote that would give this blog some personal context. I’m not really upset that some of these bands get more praise. In the grand scheme of the things this subgenre is not really even that over hyped, but I was just using this certain scene a launching point to discuss retro trends in general whether it be stoner rock or garage rock or psychadelic hippie core. So telling me how much my band sucks is not pertinent to this conversation.

    3. This is just a conversation piece. I’m giving my 2 cents and asking for your feedback. I’m genuinely interested in what you guys think. What the hell do I know? I’m just an over analytical, douche bag, metal nerd who thinks about trivial things like this from time to time. Let’s not take it too seriously.

    • aids robot

      some trolls are gonna be awfully happy to see this lol

      • tomaashamilton

        While you don’t have the highest profile of living metal musicians, it’s still very satisfying to see that those amongst the better-known metal ranks are actually thinking, interested, and willing enough to connect with us and share thoughts. That much shows you’ve got no superiority complex. And besides that, it’s very enjoyable to see the fourth wall between bands and fans disappear.

        What I hope not to see is you deterred and deciding not to share. Ignore the vast amounts of douchebaggery. These dudes would scarcely listen to anyone short of Ozzie, and if they got the chance …

        And I’m sure you’ve got a handful of failed musicians amongst the GF haters here. The only thing that’s sad and aggravating is that these people cling to the last scrapes of dignity they have by busting on a more established band they still feel they can match, and only do so mentally before they turn their eyes to sleep at night. So much for honestly.

  • http://www.bayareametalscene.com DS

    I see Doc’s point about hyping up a genre just because of nostalgia. I feel that way about CONVERGE.

    Re: Thrash Resurgence –

    I’d just like to point out that all the new thrash bands sound way better than Thrash did before. Tighter, faster, angrier, louder. The production is better. The song writing is better. Drummers this decade are three times better than drummers in the 80′s. Guitar solos are off the hook. Etc. etc.

    If a new “revival” BRINGS IT like the Thrash resurgence is now, then full-fucking-steam-ahead I say!

    • tomaashamilton

      I’d agree that one of the best things is that ReThrash pushes Thrash harder and further. It’s one thing that continually impresses me about bands who do it well. There’s still a superiority and pretentiousness that is destructive which can be seen from bands who see themselves as saviours or reincarnates. That’s another problem, but an intriguing story worth watching, nonetheless.

      • sYgnal

        I doubt these bands feel that they are saviors,BUT, the justification is there if need be. Somebody needs to light a fire under these dinosaur’s asses!

        • tomaashamilton

          It’s a short-lived flame, sadly. Pretentiousness doesn’t take one very far, especially in these days of shortened lives. But you can’t order someone to return to a state of pure passion, pretentiousness has to get tired before band brains (re)discover the sweet honeyed reward of writing music that proceeds from a truer place.

          Pretentiousness has seen quite a few cascades, ReThrash being the latest. Me remembers a time when I was 17 and straight-edge pretentiousness was self-bestowed upon those thought to be the truest and purest to the lifestyle. It’s all just latent childhood psychology blasted through metal sub-culture, which few seem to see the humour in.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Hoefer/25511007 David Hoefer

      Tighter? Faster? Angrier? Louder? I just heard the newest Municipal Waste single and it is NONE of those. It’s loose, boring, and slow. The only thing they’re angry about is not having enough Joose.

  • http://thatdevilmusic.blogspot.com Rob Liz

    “Sour grapes aside, after killer new releases in the last couple years from Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Testament, and Exodus (I’ve heard some new Anthrax, too, and it’s sick!), I realized we don’t need to reignite thrash. The originators are still holding it down and with the huge excitement over the upcoming American Carnage Tour and Big 4 Sonisphere festival shows, it proves that this is what people really want anyway.”

    Eh…..what’s up doc? Sorry, I should be stabbed in the face for that one. Anyways…

    Here is my question, if there is no revival of thrash then what happens when Slayer,Megadeth,Testament,Exodus,Overkill..etc retire? They can’t stay around forever and honestly thrash is what the U.S. brought to the metal scene table. Some of these rethrash bands that have been mentioned are basically just starting out and have plenty of time and opportunity to progress and grow.

    I’ve been around long enough to remember some of your thrash heroes first albums and how god awful they sounded. Within a few years everyone was listening to them once they had refined their sound.The same can be said now.

    Also I’m seeing MW mentioned alot in this thread. I’ve just started listening to them and ya know what….they bring a vibe I haven’t seen in decades since Anthrax’s glory days. It’s called bringing the fun to metal music. The only gripe I have with them is almost every song sounds the same. But their intentions are cool so give them a fucking break. Not everyone can be as seriously bad ass as Five Finger Death Punch amirite?:p

    • sYgnal

      +1

      Plus, IMHO, I really don’t feel that Slayer,Megadeth,Testament,Exodus,Overkill,(Your Band’s Name Here) have been “Holding It Down” because if they were there would be no “ReThrash” scene to talk about!

  • http://Re-thrash dflox

    is that like nu-thrash? I like it better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kasper-Maigaard/1027001938 Kasper Maigaard

    You’re turning this into a way bigger deal than it needs to be. Municipal Waste, Toxic Holocaust and Skeletonwitch are just kick-ass bands having a good time. They are a blast to listen to no matter how much they re-use old riffs.
    Screw bringing new stuff to the table if the old stuff still works.

    • sYgnal

      Can we get an “AMEN” over here?!

  • GreatJob

    You know what is hilarious? An EX member of a band like God Forbid talking about originality.

    • TonyT

      Why can’t anyone fucking read on here? it’s DOC coyle not Dallas….And I’ll be the first to admit GF isn’t the most original band out there but they are a hell of alot better than all these shitty revivalist bands.

  • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

    I do have to admit, a band that writes a song called “lunch hall food brawl” with pretty much all their members being in there mid to late 20′s..Sorry folks thats a FAIL. Theres some bands that are doing it great; Warbringer, Evile, SkelotenWytch, and then….well imsure you folks can figure out who aint doin it right.

    And your brother is still a Tool-bag of Death star proportions.

  • dimentian

    wow there’s 10,000 replies to this discussion………….Jus like as many bands nowadays. Is there really anything left to offer metal? I’d like to hear a reply to that! I dunno myself. Gojira is somewhat original. “somewhat”. I’d like to try to mention a few more but of course i will just get slammed by some gamer virgin on here.

  • ERiK

    The young fans always have been and always will be total dicks. Kids are very cliquey. Metal in itself is elitist and cliquey, but kids are the worst. Yeah, the little thrash kids thought they were being “legit” by flipping you off, turning their backs, etc. That’s what kids do. They’re mindless assholes.

    • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

      Metal is not “ëlitist”. I welcome any body with open arms who will put down their by the numbers, pussy, bling and cristal, im a soldier, weak ass “Hip Hop”- and listen to something real.

      Fuck the Coyle brothers

      Fuck this thread.

      “Come together like Butt-cheeks”

  • todd

    Dude your right! Sort of. I’m 35 years old and I grew up with the Big 4(Metallica, Slayer, Megadetth, Anthrax) and groups like Testament , Sepultura, and Suicidal Tendencies. I am guilty of going through the grunge, nu-metal, and metalcore trends. For the most part theses old school thrash bands sucked balls during these times. This thrash revival got me into bands like Municidal Waste, Warbringer, Lazarus A.D., Sylosis, and Inicte. I think it did something else. It got these old farts playing good music again, and it got people like me interested in them again. Hell I forgot Dave Lambardo played in Testament. I played The Gathering for the first time in half a decade; Holy shit what a badass album! I wouldn’t have cared if it wasn’t for this so called thrash revival. Your right Doc these old school bands are badass to this very day. These new bands are badass to and they serve a purpose, they keep metal alive and relevant.

    And Doc, you better be shredding on the next God Forbid album.

  • bobby hayes

    id rather listen to 100 retro thrash bands than any pantera rip-off aka god forbid, lamb of god, etc. or any at the gates metalcore rip-off