COMING OUT HAS TAUGHT GAAHL NOTHING

Friday, January 15th, 2010 at 3:16pm by

church_burning

I don’t know what, if any, kind of persecution Gaahl has faced since coming out, but even if he’s been met with nothing but kindness and tolerance, I’d imagine he’s aware of the poor treatment homosexual receive all over the world. I mean, he met his partner, modeling agent Dan DeVero, approximately a year and a half before he came out, and common sense tells us that he was gay long before that – so why didn’t he come out sooner? Even if he wasn’t afraid of how people might react, he has said that DeVero was. So it’s not like he thinks there aren’t homophobes in the world, many of whom commit violent acts against gay men and women.

So mightn’t one assume that awareness of the effects of persecution would give Gaahl a new perspective on violent attacks against those whose beliefs and preferences are different from his own? You’d think so, wouldn’t you? Well, you’d think wrong. Chris Harris at Noiscreep reports:

“Church burnings are, of course, a thing that I support one hundred percent,” he says in the 2005 [documentary, Metal: A Headbanger's Journey]. “It should have been done much more, and will be done much more in the future. We have to remove every trace from what Christianity, and the Semitic roots, have to offer this world.”

Well, it seems Gaahl’s views have remained unchanged… He reaffirmed his views in a recent interview, saying, “I have left my past behind, but I still have an anti-Christian attitude. Christianity has no place in this country. As long as the church has the power it has and supports oppression, we shouldn’t give the church any sympathy. Therefore I don’t think it’s wrong if [a church burning] happens again. The symbolic value of burning down churches is important.”

Okay, so I’m not exactly pro-organized religion or anything, and as a homosexual, Gaahl has more reason to hate the Church than most.

But burning down churches is wrong. I’m not saying that one must turn the other cheek all the time, but burning down someone’s house of worship isn’t an act of self-defense – it’s just a violent attack. There’s a million ways that Gaahl could take a stand against Christianity that wouldn’t be encouraging people to behave like assholes.

Read more at Noisecreep, then weigh in with your thoughts below.

-AR

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Winnett/504952291 Daniel Winnett

    The problem is determining where the source of the oppression is. I mean I don’t know how many of you have visited an old church, like 14th or so century church. I visited Rome back in april 2009 and the feeling you get in those old churches is unbelievably oppressive. They are built to make you feel small and insignificant.

    The problem I think are the priests, the pastors, the shepherds leading the sheep. Pretty much my whole family is insanely christian and it actually saddens me to see them live like that, unaware of what they are doing to themselves. Christianity is like handcuffing yourself.

    Also Gaahl might have hesitated coming out because black metal musicians have murdered (or been suspected of murdering) homosexuals before. How would they react to one of their own, one of the most unquestionably “troo kvlt” of all, being a homosexual? It could have been very ugly. It wouldn’t have suprised me if Gaahl had met the same fate as Euronymous.

    • orbital

      If it was in Rome you visited those old churches, they were Catholic churches. Don’t confuse Catholicism with Christianity. I spent my summer back in Sweden, and the Domkyrkan in Uppsala is fucking spectacular. It would be an absolute travesty if someone were to burn something like that.

      • Genial Gentile

        I agree. I have traveled all over Europe and visited many old churches, cathedrals, etc. I never felt that the BUILDINGS themselves felt particularly “oppressive,” that’s not to say what they represented now or in the past wasn’t. I just can’t find any justification for destroying architectural and cultural treasures and denying the rest of the world the opportunity to see them. I’ve said this before, but I don’t see any difference between church burnings and Saddam Hussein demolishing those amazing and ancient Buddhist temples in Iraq simply because they were incongruous with the current belief system. They are a window into history and should be preserved for that reason alone.

        • Heavy Metal

          The Buddhist temples were in Afghanistan and destroyed by the Taliban.

          • Genial Gentile

            There were temples all through modern day Iraq,Iran, Afghanistan,Uzbekistan, Northern Pakistan and pretty much every corner of the old Persian Empire…most of which have been destroyed by religious zealots or Theocratic dictators.

      • Biff Tannen

        “Don’t confuse Catholicism with Christianity. ”

        No True Scotman, eh ???

        Protestant Christianity CANNOT be seperated for Catholicism. The catholics INVENTED the whole fucking thing !!! THEY wrote/compiled/VOTED on the fucking bible! If it weren’t for them, you would have NEVER heard of that silly zombie you worship.

        Aren’t you a bit old for fairy tales?

        • Ben

          Just because they have the same roots, does not mean they are the same thing. Islam and Judaism have the same roots as catholicsm, heck, they share the old testament, but you wouldn’t dare call them the same thing. And uhm. The whole point of the protestant reformation wasnt to seperate, but ot reform, but the result was a truly seperate entity. So yes while we do owe the catholics credit for creating the bible, that does not mean that they are the same.

          • Biff Tannen

            I understand the differences, BUT both protestants and catholics believe that Jesus was the son of god, and that salvation is only obtainable by accepting jesus….therefore, they are BOTH Christians.

            There is no need to split hair here…its a cut and dry issue.

        • orbital

          are you done yet?

        • Trux

          damn bill ….I kinda feel sorry for you and your operation…..

          because you had an operation right ??…. yeah, the one that connects your intestines with your mouth..

          Everytime you speak, shit comes out of your mouth…

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Jones/554310014 Tim Jones

        Orbital, Catholicism is not a different religion from Christianity – it’s a branch of Christianity in the same way that Orthodox and Protestant Christianity are also.

        • orbital

          I realise that. My point was that the practices within Catholicism are pretty different from other forms of Christianity. Not that they are completely different belief systems.

      • Trux

        well yeah but Catholics and Christian worship the same God you know..

        • Trux

          damn metalsucks….this new form of reply is a total mess……

          Comments just pop up in places that mislead the argument ……

    • Daniel

      The Catholic churches in Rome weren’t built to make you feel small or insignificant. They were built to say “look how big we are, we must be true” and to make the members feel a part of a bigger whole.

      Aside from that, they are architectural wonders filled with masterpieces from the greatest artists in history. I don’t feel very oppressed when I look at statues Michaelangelo carved with his own hands, or paintings van Eyck, Donatello, Baldung, Raphael, Carvaggio, and the like painted themselves, or when I see structures built by the mind of Bernini. Why would I feel oppressed seeing any of that? How can you see things like that and not feel a bit more educated, or even uplifted? I’m not Catholic, but if anything I ask myself, “What did the great men in history see in Catholicism that I don’t?”

      You feel oppressed seeing all that? …pfft. Take a Humanities class.

      • Biff Tannen

        what they ‘saw’ in Catholicism that you don’t was the very real possibility of being PUT TO DEATH if they didn’t conform.

        • Daniel

          In Rome? During and after the Renaissance? They had no more possibility of being put to death than being burned alive in a church by a disgruntled black metal musician.

          Read up on your history. Don’t just make generalizations.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dru-Morrison/1641060092 Dru Morrison

            Nah dude, Italy had a fair hand in inquisitional practices. Or at least they, the Vatican, condoned it through out Europe.

          • Daniel

            Again, read up on your history. Don’t make generalizations. During and after the Renaissance? In Rome? I’m not saying the Catholic church didn’t do some terrible things before and after the age of enlightenment, but the total number of deaths by the church’s hand in Rome after the fifteenth century is extremely minute. Artists above all faced the possibility of censorship, not death.

            I guess the point I was originally trying to make was; if these genius artists faced the possibility of death, why didn’t they paint according to their fears? Why did they paint/build/sculpt at all? Why not hide their talents? They obviously saw something in their faith, otherwise their art wouldn’t be worth looking at. If their art didn’t have their faith behind it, it wouldn’t have meaning to us today. It would have no educational or artistic value whatsoever. It would be like listening to Gaahl sing a song written by Britney Spears. He might be able to do it, but his heart wouldn’t be in it, and that would clearly show.

            I don’t see an oppressed artist when I’m walking through a cathedral in Rome and look at this:
            http://crazymindseye.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pieta4.jpg
            or this:
            http://www.romaviva.com/vaticano-castel-santangelo/baldacchino-bernini.jpg
            or this:
            http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/raphael_school_of_athens.jpg

            What was the artist’s inspiration for such beauty? It must have been all that oppression he felt.

            Again, I know the Catholic church has a hideous history. I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying that these artists obviously saw something of value in the Catholic church, and that it’s not 100% evil.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dru-Morrison/1641060092 Dru Morrison

        I would say that the oppression and the delusions of grandeur theories mentioned kinda work hand in hand. Oppression causes one to bow down. Then once they’ve given up, you give them something to be proud of so they don’t remember the oppression. And secondly, ALL ORGANIZERS of religion are cunts. Organized religion, though I hate it cause I’m compelled to believe that the majority of religious followers are fucking sheep (at least the one’s who get on TV), but I’m not going to say that EVERYONE who has a belief in an organized religion are retards. That’s too shallow for my standards. I just don’t know why people have to label COMMON FUCKING DECENCY with a prophet, religion, book, whatever.

      • Gaia

        I’m not religiouos at all, but I do recognise the overtly brilliant art that can be found in churches and the simply great architecture is definately worth preserving for future generations to appreciate.

      • Trux

        Also Wrong Daniel…… the majesty of the church is no other than to say ” This is the House of God…… lets make His House according to This Greatness “….

        It makes total sense to me……

  • bobovdeath

    but gaahl was attacking people and singing in gorgoroth before he came out,and he was a gay then

    so hes just keeping true to his beliefs

    at the peter beste exhibition in san francisco,his portrait was up and it talked about his famous attack on some guy,and it said that along with getting punched,cut,and kicked bloody,the man was “forced to solve riddles” hahaha

  • Bob Dole

    You’re totally right. It really accomplishes nothing other than giving people with similar ideals a bad name and looking intolerant. However, as long as no one gets hurt, it’s pretty damn funny.

  • Gaahl

    Religion is completely different than homosexuality, so it should be looked at differently. Christiantity is an antihuman belief system (I.E. all Christians can agree that humans are inherently flawed and that salvation is something to only be attained through something nonhuman.) To accept that belief system is to accept the worst of human nature, so Christians should not be surprised by any hateful backlash!

    • Driven9

      “all Christians can agree that humans are inherently flawed and that salvation is something to only be attained through something nonhuman”

      I’ve never heard this viewpoint stated this way. Its straight to the point, yet rather elagant. well said.

      • Biff Tannen

        Agreed. Christianity is the ultimate DEATH WORSHIP, plain and simple. They despise life, and wait only for death. The reject as ‘evil’ and ‘unclean’ all that makes us human, and accordingly, animals. They deny human instinct and nature, all for the VAIN hope that they will live forever. How can you possibly love this life, and live it for all it’s worth, when you think you will get a better life when you die? You will not find one passage in the bible that is in praise of intelligence, only ignorance.

        A lot of Christians make the claim that “Atheists are arrogant”. That baffles me. How can anyone be anymore arrogant than the Christian who believes “I am special. There is an invisible man in the sky who made me and cares about ME. He watches everything I do, and my actions can cause him great discomfort. He listens to my thoughts, and my prayers (why pray? doesn’t god have a plan in his infinite wisdom? how arrogant can you possibly be to think that god is going to change his perfect plan for the universe because of YOU? ) I am in possession of a magic book that contains the secrets of the universe, and gives me the answers to what happens when I die. People that don’t accept this book as fact will burn in pain in Hell for all eternity”

        Yeah, real humble viewpoint you walking zombies have.

        • Biff Tannen

          Forgot to add in the previous comment : Christians are sooo vain that they actually believe “I am special. I will not die ! I will live on forever in a magic kingdom in the sky”

    • JJBeback

      You’d have to be incredibly naive to not realize that people are all flawed, christian or not.

      • Gaahl

        You speak from our cultural lens. Take a look into the cultures that existed prior to civilization (pre 10,000 years ago). Their beliefs reinforce a completely different way of life. Our current way of life is based on exploitation, so our mythology which exists in the form of salvationist religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) must reinforce this exploitation. They must preach that humans are flawed and that unjust suffering and exploitation are inevitable. You should read Daniel Quinn’s “Ishmael” for an excellent exploration of our culture’s myths.

        • drupgyu

          Point of clarification; Judaism, Islam and Christianity are all Western religious traditions, monotheistic, linear and apocalyptic. Prophets and messiahs are in these and thusly, they’re ‘salvationist’. They also are a product of misogynistic patriarchal tribes surrounded by goddess worship.

          Buddhism has no deity, no savior and is a religious epistemological (not metaphysical) philosophy. Try to not lump a tradition that only in its folky interpretations is even a religion. Buddha is only worshiped in the sects of Buddhism that the other sects mostly dismiss considering he said be a light to yourselves and find the truth don’t just listen to me.

          • Gaahl

            Buddhism still teaches that we’re born into a world of suffering and pain. Salvation is escape from the cycle. It is still a civilized religion.

  • John

    If my ancestors had been brutally murdered and forced into abandoning their religon for christianity, I’d probably burn churches too.

    • Biff_Tannen

      + 1,000

    • cougar party

      By that logic, we should destroy Germany for the WWII atrocities and I should hate English people for raping and killing my Irish ancestors.

      • John

        We did execute most of the people involved (the ones we could find anyway) for WWII atrocities, though, I’d be perfectly OK with killing off the rest of the people who still identify with Nazism.

        My people came from scotland, and I am still a bit salty about how they were treated by the english. But, for the most part the royal line from that time period has been extinguished, so I guess they got theirs.

        • cougar party

          My point is you can’t blame modern day people for the trangressions of their ancestors. Modern day Christians don’t have anything to do with the persecutions of Pagans in the past. You can certainly disagree with them, hate them, or whatever you want, but burning churches is stupid.

          • John

            Disagree yes, Hate no. And I wouldn’t ever burn a church or even really be violent towards anyone else. But, If I saw a megachurch in flames on television a piece of me would be very happy.

          • cougar party

            @ John:

            Now your on to something.

    • orbital

      if you think Scandinavians were murdered and forced into aboning their religions, check your facts. All it took was murding one king in Sweden and Christianity was the new state religion.

      • Biff Tannen

        You are a pathological liar. If all it took was one case of Regicide to convert Sweden, why are ALL of your holidays simply re-packaged pagan holidays???? Of course, the answer is that it made it easier to convert pagans by putting a christian face on the holidays they’ve celebrated for thousands of years.

        Im sure you will deny this, but thats your perogative. You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. I know this won’t be much of a problem for you, because as a Christian, you are used to ignoring facts.

        • orbital

          why would I deny that? That has nothing to do with your statement that people were brutaly murdered. FFS, they turned King Erik into Saint Erik in the same way they converted pagan holidays into Christian ones. I like your assumption that I’m Christian. I don’t believe in imaginary friends.

          • Biff Tannen

            Orbital- I apologize for assuming you were a Christian. Your wording on a few posts made me think you were. My mistake.

          • orbital

            no worries dude, I just like to think that us non-Christians aren’t the same as Christians in that we keep an open mind and we actually do accept people for who they are and not what they beleive in or their sexual orientation, etc.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

          Biff that is not correct. The amalgamation of Christianity and Paganism has nothing
          to do with either religion’s effect on one another, but politics. Emperor Constantine,
          a “Christian convert” emperor of Rome was faced with the problem of Rome’s
          division in the form of a tetrarchy. His clever plan to re-unite the empire and
          ease religious tensions was to combine the most prevelant religions together.

          Many Christians maintain that Constantine was, himself, a Christian but in the
          opinion of many, myself included, he was in fact just a clever politician
          who was able to emulate the traits of many different people in order to
          unite them. After all he did continue to make coins with the sun god on them.

          Gaahl, Biff…your arguments are well formed in some ways but seem to be more
          play on words then truth. You are sensationalistic in your descriptions and I
          really don’t give two shits what powerful imagery you think lies in burning
          a chrurch because it is an incredibly ignorant act no matter how eloquently
          you describe it. First you’re blind hatred of Christianity obviously has it’s
          underlying cause being one hundred percent you’re personal experience and
          not it’s prescence in the context of the entire world.

          For instance the church “supports opression…” OK you are obviously talking
          about gay people…who make up maybe 2 percent of the entire population.
          While this is not a good thing it must be weighed against the good things they
          are responsible for to make a judgement. I personally have seen the belief
          system work wonders for people and just looking at the Red Cross effort in Haiti
          it reminds me that ordinary people don’t give a crap either way what
          churches are doing so they don’t take note of all the humantarian efforts they
          have pursued and meanwhile people like you are filled with such vitriol because
          of how it made you feel personally and neglect to see it for what it is.

          And as far as flawed belief systems go…. I would REALLY prefer not to hear
          this from someone who plays pathetic fucking Black Metal.

          PS I’m not Christian.

      • John

        Especially since we’re talking about Norway.

        • orbital

          Norway actually included a large amount of Sweden at that time ;)

  • Biff_Tannen

    Most of these churches in Scandinavia were built on sacred pagan ground, in a deliberate attempt to literally ‘erase’ the history of these ancient people. Not only were the churces built on these grounds, but they were built by the very pagans that used to worship there. Of course they didn’t these foreign god cages by choice…they were forced to under Christian tyranny.

    These churches are huge monolithic symbols of the 1,000 years of oppression they’ve had on the Scandinavian people. Who are YOU to tell them what is ‘wrong’, Axl ???

    Also, it’s quite funny and deeply ironic that you sit around making fun and talking shit about everyone all day, every day…….yet you are always the PC police !!!

    • orbital

      It’s true a lot of churches were built over pagan worship sites. But it wasn’t like it happened overnight and it was less than oppressive. Most people integrated into Christianity willingly. Take for example some of Sweden’s pagan rituals. Every 9 years they would behead 9 males, 9 cows and 9 various other animals and hang the bodies from a tree. Tell me what you find to be more intrusive?

      • Biff Tannen

        “But it wasn’t like it happened overnight and it was less than oppressive. Most people integrated into Christianity willingly.”
        So, if “most” people integrated willingly, what happend to the unwilling ones?? Oh yeah, “Un-oppressive” murder and forced labor.

        “Every 9 years they would behead 9 males, 9 cows and 9 various other animals and hang the bodies from a tree. Tell me what you find to be more intrusive?”

        Please list your source for this claim. Even if it is true, 9 people every 9 years is FAAAARRRR less than the impressive death toll Christianity has racked up.

        • orbital

          http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/mythology/religion/text/practices.htm

          about 2/3 in:

          It is the custom moreover every nine years for a common festival of all the provinces of Sweden to be held at Uppsala. Kings and commoners one and all send their gifts to Uppsala, and what is more cruel than any punishment, even those who have accepted Christianity have to buy immunity from these ceremonies. The sacrifice is as follows: of every living creature they offer nine head, and with the blood of those it is the custom to placate the gods, but the bodies are hanged in a grove which is near the temple; so holy is that grove to the heathens that each tree in it is presumed to be divine by reason of the victim’s death and putrefaction. There also are dogs and horses hang along with men. One of the Christians told me that he had seen seventy-two bodies of various kinds hanging there, but the incantations which are usually sung at this kind of sacrifice are various and disgraceful, and so we had better say nothing about them.

          • Biff Tannen

            Interesting…. BUT, you left out some pretty important information that came before that paragraph. Namely, how this information is from a Church Cleric (whom obviously viewed all pagan practices as evil)….AND, he did not witness anything that he writes of. It is all 2nd and 3rd hand information. Very slippery slope were on here….

            “Adam of Bremen was an 11th century cleric and was the Archbishop of Bremen’s expert in missionary affairs. Adam wrote about affairs in Scandinavia during this time. His book, Gesta, is a valuable, although flawed, resource. It represents some of the earliest written literature about Scandinavia. But most of it is based on second hand and third hand information.

            Especially valuable is his description of the pagan practices which still took place at that time in Sweden. Adam wrote that every nine years, sacrifices of animals and men were made at the temple at Uppsala. Afterwards, the bodies of the victims were hung on trees by the temple. The festival lasted for nine days, with one human victim offered daily, along with each species of animal or bird. Adam did not witness these events, but wrote about them based on second hand information:

          • orbital

            simple fact it was the only thing I could find online. I was in Gamla Uppsala In July and walked through the living museum. Accounts are pretty much close in that article.

  • http://pandasdestroy.com Greg

    Gaahl’s out of his mind. There’s no reason coming out would make him any more sane. Don’t get me wrong, I love that Gaahl’s batshit insane, but Gaahl is batshit insane.

  • BeastMaster

    Burn the bible belt! Seriously. I hate religion so damn much. Besides the obvious hindrances to human evolution and thinking, it’s so damn annoying isn’t it?

    In any case, I’ll burn a church and start a religious war tomorrow. I just want a bagel right nao.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/M60Patton Patton

    Why burn them down ? Cant we just turn them into something more useful?

    • yourgodsucksballs

      Ash is useful in compost, isn’t it?

  • yourgodsucksballs

    “AND, he did not witness anything that he writes of. It is all 2nd and 3rd hand information. Very slippery slope were on here….”

    The bible in a nutshell

  • Ziltoid

    Black metal extremists are idiots. Music is an art form, an entertainment form, and a product. Black metal extremists think/thought that it was some “way of life” or something. This is why they’re idiots.

    • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

      Same goes for pretty much any extremists, from the Christians that blow up abortion clinics to the Muslims that blow up… themselves, to the black metal enthusiasts that burn churches.

      • Ziltoid

        Of course. They’re all idiots.

        • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

          Free thinkers are dangerous.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Sterner/1335958279 Andrew Sterner

            Nail on the head here.

            Burning churches is NOT a good idea though, I must say. Saying something “looks oppressive”(someone made this reference with regards to Catholic Cathedrals) is nowhere near grounds enough to burn it to the ground. I’m Not Muslim, And I would never say to burn down the Dome of the Rock. I’m not Irish Catholic, same thought with St patricks’s in NYC. If you don’t agree with their beliefs, fine, but that doesn’t give you the right to baww and cry about a false sense of oppression and burn down a beautiful structure.

            @Beastmaster….I live in the bible belt, and if you try to burn me, I’ll be ripe pissed, and have to kill you with a bagel(anally in honor of Gaahl). JK it sucks here, burn it down, just give me a week to bail out of here first

            While I’m amped, does anyone else find the black metal scene EXTREMELY annoying? They give the rest of the community a really bad name with their church burning and murder and the like. Their like emos, who lash out instead of in. Same stupid thoughts.

            And to the Atheists, find a new hobby. The topic was about whether or not burning down Old Scandinavian chuches is a morale act, NOT “HOW SILLY ERR DEM CHIRSTINS?” You(collectively as a group) manage to take threads with even a small Iota of theology in it, and turn it into a religious smear fest. Your farts CANNOT smell that good.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

        Grover, Ziltoid, Andrew….All fucking awesome!

  • Isaac

    Why can’t you fucking black metallers leave churches alone? They can gain as much from their religion as you do from yours (or lack thereof). Church burnings are nothing but hypocrisy, as it is no different than the christian Crusades in the middle ages. I love the music, but a LOT of black metallers are complete assholes, Gaahl being one of them.

    • Isaac

      and by “they,” I mean Christians, of course.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Lekberg/779008102 Jason Lekberg

    You’re right, it’s exactly like the crusades, and 400 years ago, it would have been viewed as an uprising that was squelched. Christianity came to their homeland and built churches on their druid holy lands. They want to take their culture back. I can’t say I blame them.

    I do not support homophobia or murder but I have a hard time being mad at a group of people who just want their culture back.

    No one on this site would condemn an American Indian for burning down a casino.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Sterner/1335958279 Andrew Sterner

      Do they know what exactly that culture is though? IN Black heads the answer is no. They’re looking for a cop-out to commit violence to earn respect from their peers. They know that Christianity(Luterans to be exact) came in hundreds of years ago, and forced the locals to convert. People in the black community do not care about restoring their culture, or else they’d display so in other forms, other than OR in addition to talking about/actually burning down churches. They’re simply juvenile.

      For this I can’t rightly blame them though, Scandinavia doesn’t have much for Angsty teenagers to do except be mad at random, idiotic things(like a building).

      • Blanking

        We (Scandinavians) were not christianed by lutherans, but by catholics as it was the only big church
        at the time. the reformation took care of the whole lutheran but that’s about 5-600 years later.
        read up on history, before you lecture a person about there peoples past

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

    Biff that is not correct. The amalgamation of Christianity and Paganism has nothing
    to do with either religion’s effect on one another, but politics. Emperor Constantine,
    a “Christian convert” emperor of Rome was faced with the problem of Rome’s
    division in the form of a tetrarchy. His clever plan to re-unite the empire and
    ease religious tensions was to combine the most prevelant religions together.

    Many Christians maintain that Constantine was, himself, a Christian but in the
    opinion of many, myself included, he was in fact just a clever politician
    who was able to emulate the traits of many different people in order to
    unite them. After all he did continue to make coins with the sun god on them.

    Gaahl, Biff…your arguments are well formed in some ways but seem to be more
    play on words then truth. You are sensationalistic in your descriptions and I
    really don’t give two shits what powerful imagery you think lies in burning
    a chrurch because it is an incredibly ignorant act no matter how eloquently
    you describe it. First you’re blind hatred of Christianity obviously has it’s
    underlying cause being one hundred percent you’re personal experience and
    not it’s prescence in the context of the entire world.

    For instance the church “supports opression…” OK you are obviously talking
    about gay people…who make up maybe 2 percent of the entire population.
    While this is not a good thing it must be weighed against the good things they
    are responsible for to make a judgement. I personally have seen the belief
    system work wonders for people and just looking at the Red Cross effort in Haiti
    it reminds me that ordinary people don’t give a crap either way what
    churches are doing so they don’t take note of all the humantarian efforts they
    have pursued and meanwhile people like you are filled with such vitriol because
    of how it made you feel personally and neglect to see it for what it is.

    And as far as flawed belief systems go…. I would REALLY prefer not to hear
    this from someone who plays pathetic fucking Black Metal.

    PS I’m not Christian.

    • Ziltoid

      Wow, someone who finally understands the “paganization” of Christianity! So many people don’t understand Constantine and his impact on Christianity. Thankfully, at least some people do. Nice work.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

        You know I wonder what face Christianity would have today if not for Constantine’s
        efforts. After all on one hand, at the Council of Nicea, he organized the creation
        of uniform Christian doctrines, much of which are still believed by many Christian’s in today’s
        world and also Christianity itself was elevated from a sort of underground persecuted
        movement to being more mainstream. So not only was he responsible for a lot of
        Christianity’s current beliefs but also enabled it to be so prolific.

        How would Christian’s feel if the divinity of Christ was something that was decided by
        a panel of politicians and various different religious figures?

        • Biff Tannen

          “How would Christian’s feel if the divinity of Christ was something that was decided by
          a panel of politicians and various different religious figures?”

          Many of them do no this, but their self delusion is SO deep, that they don’t think this annoying fact is of any consequence to their belief system.

          Its pretty sad that most of them are that far lost, and are teaching the impressionable minds of their infants at this very moment.

          Colin/Zilt- I’m very much aware of Constantine’s role in the establishment of Christianity. My little rant about the holidays was not meant to undermine what he did at all. I was mearly stating another tool in the early Christian’s aresenal to convert pagan Europe : The integration of Christian myth into pagan holidays.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

        BTW thanks for the props Zilt.

  • Dan

    I hate religion. I can’t understand why people would believe in such a thing. They don’t have one scrap of evidence for any of it, only a book that’s been edited and modified many times over the years – a book of lies and hypocrisy.

    But I can see its purpose. It gives people hope, and in a way it turns the gullible into nicer people. The kind of people that will go out of their way to help others. Sure they may be blind to any common logic and believe there’s a man sitting on a cloud but if it gives them hope and allows them to cope with death better…Who are we to destroy that?

    By ranting about destroying it we’re no better than the preachers who tell us to pray and “have faith”, the only difference is that while they come across as pretentious, we come across as offensive. If someone preaches to me then I’ll respectfully disagree and I’ll have a discussion with them (They can never come up with anything past “You just have to have faith” anyway) so I come out the victor without having been a total douche.

    And in regards to churches, whilst I may hate The Church, I absolutely love churches. There’s nothing as stunning as a cathedral piercing the sky, or the inside of it – the stained glass windows, the sound of the organ, the stone that it’s built from. For a place that’s meant to be holy, there’s nowhere more gothic than a church.

    *A fan of Dark Funeral, Keep of Kalessin, Behemoth, Odium, Moonspell, etc. In no way a fan of anything christian or religious in general (Y)*

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

      A book of Liiesss and HYPOCRISY! FILM AT ELEVEN!

  • Sacajawea

    I’m not going to read any of the long-ass comments above, but I will say this:

    If a religion violently forces it’s way into your country, as Christianity has on many occasions, you must violently push back.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Sterner/1335958279 Andrew Sterner

      Haha, YOU’RE SO SMART, YOU DESERVE AT LEAST 100 MEDALS FOR BEING SO SMART. SMART GUY.

  • LeGay

    As a homosexual metal fan, I am here to say, everyone here is pants on head retarded.

    Every. Single. Person. Here. Is. Retarded.

    • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

      Pants make good hats.

      • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

        Is that why im called an Asshat?

    • Ziltoid

      I love pants.

  • Some Random Dude

    I smoked some pretty bomb purple kush with some queers today. they saved me from a horrendous week of nothing but shake. now i love homos. but i’m not IN love with them, cause that would be gay.

    • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

      You sir are my new hero!

  • columbo

    Christians in scandinavia are pretty liberal compared to other countries.
    It’s the Pat Robertsons of the world who needs to be stopped.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Morley/618112437 William Morley

    Personally I’m an atheist and I’m 100% for the abolishment of Christianity, but that isn’t going to happen if you use the same barbaric methods that Christians did. Also I remember reading an interview, I think it was with Ihsahn, saying most of the Norwegian churches which were burnt were there long before Christianity came to Norway and Christianity just took over these older places of worship, so effectively, they are damaging their own heritage, something which most Black Metal bands claim to take pride in.

    • Emilia

      Audre Lourde said “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.” The only other groups that have destroyed churches include the Taliban (as mentioned above) and the Klu Klux Klan. Neither group I would want to associate with.

      Maybe Gaahl should try his hand at being part of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence (http://www.thesisters.org/) as a way to voice his opposition to to christianity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

      HaHa athiests…Did you like the part where Robert Downey Jr dissed you guys in “The Soloist?”

      “What do you guys non-gather? Then do you non-worship? What else do you not believe in?”

      lulz

      • Biff Tannen

        I was not aware that Robert Downey Jr is still alive, let alone is in any position to insult others.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Fritz-Pettersen/536945538 Fritz Pettersen

    Yeah, whatever. Let the dude talk. Look at where black metal is today. Not much rebel extravaganza left now you think? You could burn down a church, or you could enter/watch the eurovision song contest or go see a fashion show with your boyfriend. Old men like to be comfortable, simple as that.

  • 10000 Gays

    I bet Gaahl can’t wait to meet the hottest guys at Zoosk

  • http://web.me.com/metalshea metahea

    I’m not going to argue with anyone on the merits of religion; no one ever wins those arguments because they are either too personal, or too impersonal, for people to react in an open-minded way. What I will make an argument against is church burnings, and I’m in complete agreement with AR’s purposeful understatement: if you burn a church, then you’re a dick. There is literally nothing that justifies something like that simply because the arsonist is damaging so much more than a symbolic edifice. Arson in this scenario is just a vicious, cowardly attempt at making a political and theological statement that puts lives at risk. You don’t win any converts by going to war (see: Germany and France c.2003). The big picture arguments about religion, culture and oppression all have their place, but for me, at least, the reality, the cost, and the damage–both realized and unrealized, to not only property, but to people–caused by arson, committed just to make a point, is inexcusable.

  • IAmTheClitCommander

    Gaahl’s just disappointed that he’s always on the receiving end.

  • Rachel

    If only the whole world, Christian’s, black-metal extremists, and all, could just coexist and dance on rainbows. What’s wrong with leaving each other alone? And for Gaahl, it’s your life and your decisions, but “an eye for an eye” isn’t always the answer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colin-OConnor/1491245262 Colin O’Connor

    OK I just want to throw this out there but isn’t it crystal fucking clear that Gaahl’s beliefs are just a
    echoing the status quo conventions of Black Metal and really nothing else? I mean I think we can all agree
    there are worse things “afflicting” humanity then Christianity. Truthfully though, Black Metal would be
    even more hilarious if it’s central theme were to attack something that actually is evil like say Cancer,
    Aids.

    Christianity is not without it’s negative effects but seriously, in terms of evil, it’s about on par with removing
    tags from pillows or illegally distributing downloaded music.

    Black Metal is the epitome of retardation and “LeGay” until you can contribute something more substantial
    I think I can safely assume you are as well.

    • Biff Tannen

      “Christianity is not without it’s negative effects but seriously, in terms of evil, it’s about on par with removing
      tags from pillows or illegally distributing downloaded music”

      This is the understatement of the fucking decade !! Thanks for the laugh. All I will say in counterpoint, due to lack of time is this :

      “Never do men commit evil so willingly, as when they do it for religion”

  • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

    I believe in God,just not his child molesting-brainwashing-crusading fan club.

  • mickey luv

    crucial difference here:

    you CHOOSE to be a Christian, but you don’t CHOOSE to be gay. Nobody is innately Christian. Why would you have to stand by Christians because you are gay? Many priests condemn homosexuality; I would say the man has more reasons than most other satanists to burn churches.

  • http://www.nocleansinging.com Islander

    What goes around comes around. Gaahl was cast in a black metal musical scheduled for staging in Bergen at a theater that enjoys significant state funding, and now the artistic director of the theater is being pressured by clergy and politicians to fire him. That’s just as wrong as his advocacy of church-burning. Lots of symbolism in this weird story. (we’ve been writing about this here:
    http://www.nocleansinging.com/2010/01/16/burning-ideas-part-3/)