L O S T WITH AS I LAY DYING’S NICK HIPA: SIMILARITIES, DIFFERENCES, AND QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TWO TIMELINES

Tuesday, March 9th, 2010 at 5:00pm by

Virtually every Sayid episode we’ve ever seen has delved into some form of his past and inner gnarliness, so it only makes sense that last week’s “Sundown” blasted us with all sorts of action, violence, and brutality. Viewing the episode for substance, though, we were only handed little nuggets of answers to some very minor questions (Who is Dogen?) in exchange for even more: how was Dogen the only thing keeping Nemesis out? Why couldn’t Nemesis be killed by stabbing when Jacob can/was? How can Nemesis give people “anything they want in the entire world?” These are the freshest of mysteries which I’m fine with keeping on the back burner (for now) to get into the more crucial topic of the timelines.

With the flash-sideways of Sayid’s life, the alternate timeline has remained consistent with the kinda-consistent-to-the-OT-facts direction it has been taking since its introduction at LA-X. In both timelines, Sayid was an interrogator in the Iraqi Republican Guard and holds his love interest Nadia as “the most important thing to him in the world.” The OT inconsistency here is that in the ALT Nadia is unobtainable to him as she is actually the wife of his brother. Here are a few more examples of characters with the standout details of their past as we know it in the OT being similar but slightly different in the ALT:

Hurley
Similarities: Hurley is a gazillionaire for winning the lottery.
Differences: He regards himself as “the luckiest man alive,” which is a stark contrast to the miserably unlucky character who won by playing what he felt were the cursed Valenzetti numbers.
Questions: What is the source of Hurley’s luck? Did he play the same numbers?

Locke
Similarities: Paralyzed dude who leaves for a Walkabout in Australia only to be turned away.
Differences: A picture of Locke and his father on a hunting trip (not in the OT) insinuates that he might have a normal, functioning relationship with his father. The fact that Helen is still with him and is actually his fiancee indicates that Locke’s obsession with stalking and aiding his father in the OT was never an issue or catalyst to what eventually became Helen leaving him.
Questions: What caused Locke’s paralysis then? What exactly is the status of the relationship with his father?

Kate
Similarities: A fugitive from the law who was captured in Australia and en route back to the states under the custody of Edward Mars.
Differences: Nature of her crime is still not revealed, but she asks if Claire would “Believe me if I said I was innocent?” This does not prove that she is innocent, although the door is still open that the circumstances for her arrest could be entirely different (i.e., she never killed her father).

The Kwons
Similarities: Sun and Jin are traveling to America on behalf of Jin’s business, which we are led to believe has something to do with him delivering the same watch as in the OT. The beefy wad of cash is pretty suspicious too, which leads me to believe he’s still doing sketchy dirty work.
Differences: Sun is referred to as Ms. Paik and neither of the two are wearing wedding bands. The assumption made from this is that the two are not yet married. Also, Sun indicates she does not speak English; the validity of this statement hasn’t absolutely been confirmed.
Questions: If they are not married, how would Jin be in the same line of business? What then would the status of their relationship be?

Jack
Similarities: Jack is a successful surgeon with a deep seeded resentment for his father’s “you don’t have what it takes” method of parenting. He was aboard flight 815 for the same reason, which was to transport his dead father’s body back home.
Difference: He has a son named David.
Question: Who is David’s mother?

Keamy
Similarity: Still a douche bag.

The jury is still out whether or not Jack is a father in the original timeline as well, but I haven’t ruled it out yet, seeing as how the two timelines look like blurry mirrors of each other (possibly to reinforce the notion of fate?). On the topic of both mirroring each other, one of you (yetzer hara) mentioned last week that the love triangle between Sawyer, Jack, and Juliet is very likely to reveal itself in the alternate timeline as well. I back this and think it could come across as making sense if Juliet turns out to be David’s mother; but – as fate would have it – her relationship with Jack hadn’t work out (similar to the brief and short lived romantic interest they shared in Season 4) and she ends up crossing paths with Sawyer (perhaps coffee?) in the short alternate future. If this were to unfold, I think it could make the possibility of David existing in the regular timeline less likely, as that could be the one difference to an otherwise accurately echoed life of Jack in both.

The past several weeks I’ve been bombarding you all with my conjectures on what I consider to be the shows most relevant issues: the alternate timeline, Jacob vs. Nemesis, and how our main characters fit into them. I’m going to take it easy on trying to further define the relationship between Jacob and Nemesis today, as we were given more of an entertaining physical escalation of the conflict in “Sundown” at the expense of not receiving info that hasn’t already been speculated upon before. In spite of me laying the incongruities of the two timelines out earlier, the question of how they will be reconciled remains unanswered. I’ve scoured the world wide web for hours upon hours reading various timeline theories, but haven’t really come across anything super tits yet. The record theory is pretty rad, and so is this thread discussing the possibility that the each timeline now exists with a direct relationship to the other, but both still have huge gaping holes in consistency to the facts. Lostpedia goes into the latter briefly as well, with a theory that Nemesis is actually aware of/associated with the alternate timeline and, as a result, uses that as leverage for making offers to our Losties to join him. Nothing I’ve stumbled upon has completely clicked, though; and so for today, I have no qualms with saying “I’ve got nothing.” A lot of you are on point with your L O S T, so if you have any head’s up info, ideas, or links that deal with the question of “What is the relevance of our new timeline to our original one, and how will they be reunited?”, I’d be grateful to have you share them.

If you haven’t checked out the preview for “Dr. Linus” yet, please do so ASAP. They’re alluding in the sneak peek that he’s possibly gunna get it and Nemesis is gunna give it to him. There’s also a scene of Ben in the ALT lecturing his class on the topic of Napolean, and what he’s saying sounding like a reasonable allusion to what the character of MIB has gone through. Ben is up there with Richard Alpert in terms of actually knowing what’s going on, so in the same way we could all assume that there was going to be violence with Sayid, we should feel pretty good about getting some inside island insight tonight!

-NH

As I Lay Dying’s new album, The Powerless Rise, will be out this spring on Metal Blade. While you’re awaiting its release, why not get L O S T on AILD’s MySpace page?

  • Cash Bailey

    I tend to agree with the popular opinion that the ‘flash-sideways’ world we’re seeing is actually what happens AFTER the events on the island ultimately resolve.

    And the creators are clever enough to bamboozle us with more bullshit on the island, while giving us exactly what we want at the same time without us even knowing it.

    They’re saying “You want to know what happens at the end? Well, we’re gonna show it to you from the opening seconds of the season and you’re not even gonna know it.”

    And it was great to see Sayid slaying fools. Not to mention the immeasurable pleasure of seeing that bastard Keamy get killed again, after his rather anticlimactic death in season 4.

    LOST is so far and away the greatest show ever.

    • Tonberry

      At first, it seems like the flash sideways is self evidently a divergent time line in which the island and perhaps Jacob and everything to do with the game were destroyed 30 years ago by the bomb. If that’s the case, though, it takes a big heaping shit on the concept of the butterfly effect, unless in the main time line, Jacob were for some reason manipulating things to create similar conditions to the post bomb world. That’s just pure conjecture pulled out of my ass, though.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Heffner/100000289780879 Michael Heffner

      I’m thinking it would almost be way too obvious if it turns out that the flash-sideways are what happens “after” the show ends. Something about that idea wouldn’t surprise me if it ended up being the case but I think the fact that everyone thinks it right away means that it can’t be eat, they wouldn’t make it that easy to figure out. or would they?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-F-Cooper/864625407 Matt F. Cooper

      well the creators did say that the ALT was 100% relevant to the plot. So this theory may ring true in the end.

      • Ryan

        Except for some characters being dead in the main time line, nd alive in the alt. so unless Nadia is a ghost i don’t think this has happened…

    • Nick

      Wow that would be a pretty great twist to have the ultimate conclusion be what we’re actually seeing as the alternate timeline. I have no idea how they could pull this off, but it’s an interesting thought for sure.

      I was stoked Saying was killing fools too haha!

      • Nick

        *Sayid

  • ~Ja5oN~

    Nick just out of curiosity what are “super tits”? <~~ LMFAO! …Nick Hipa quote: "I’ve scoured the world wide web for hours upon hours reading various timeline theories, but haven’t really come across anything super tits yet.' Was it an type-o or perhaps a Freudian slip? lol Anywho thanks yet again for your time and insightfulness. I personally can't wait until Lost is on tonight, hopefully it's another good episode.

    • TonyT

      “super tits” as in “super awesome”…such as “man, that show was the tits!”

    • Nick

      TonyT was correct in my usage of it! Using the word “tits” as a synonym for “awesome” was something I started to doing as an accident with my friends after talking about how people use to say it all the time in 80′s movies… I’m almost certain it’s in License to Drive (Corey Feldman, Corey Haim RIP) and that was the example we used as a prime reference. It was one of those things you say/do as kind of a joke but then subconsciously start doing it for real hahaha.

  • Coop

    Shit, how are they gonna explain all this in one season?

    • Nick

      That’s what I’m saying man!

  • Tonberry

    What I’d really like to know about the numbers is that now that we know that the numbers represent people on the island, why is it that this set of numbers has had a presence on the island for as long as they have, and why they even bothered assigning other numbers to other people. Perhaps after the game involving numbers is resolved, somebody goes back in time and gives away the answers. Probably not.

    I think about how Rousseau, when confronted by Hurley about having written down the numbers, said that she was also brought to the island by the numbers. Rousseau was #20 (there’s a list at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Numbers), but her notes had the usual 4 8 15 16 23 42. I’m half worried that the concept of numbers representing people is as good of an explanation as we’ll get.

    • Tonberry

      Oops, it made the parenthesis a part of the link.

      http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Numbers

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-F-Cooper/864625407 Matt F. Cooper

      also, interesting theory involving the candidates, now that locke is dead, does kate austen, which is number 51 (5-1 = 4), replace locke as the ’4′?

    • Nick

      The numbers are a confusing topic for sure. We’ve seen them used as some sort of coordinate by Rousseau, have heard them officially described as The Valenzetti Equation, used by Hurley to win the lottery, and now to number each one of our castaways. I’m going to look into this some more, but so far I haven’t heard anything that has fully EXPLAINED how they all tie in together either.

    • Nick

      The numbers are a confusing topic for sure. We’ve seen them used as some sort of coordinate by Rousseau, have heard them officially described as The Valenzetti Equation, used by Hurley to win the lottery, and now to number each one of our castaways. I’m going to look into this some more, but so far I haven’t heard anything that has fully EXPLAINED how they all tie in together either.

  • Matt

    I just finally caught up and can now weigh in on the things that are said here!
    Jacob could have been killed because he was in his own body, whereas Nemesis was in a form of Locke’s body, at least that’s my theory.
    Dogen is the protector of the temple as set by Jacob, Jacob met Dogen in the real world after his son died, and Jacob said he can save his son if he protected the temple for the rest of his life from MIB.
    But after watching “Dr Linus” I want to say that Richards story and him explaining the ‘immortality’ blew my mind, as well as Widmore’s appearance.

    Is he staging an attack? I feel that the viewer on the sub made that clear when he was concerned about the people on the island.

    • yetzer hara

      Dogen said that Nemesis could only be killed if Sayid stabbed him before before he spoke. Nemesis said “Hello Sayid,” and then Sayid stabbed him. By speaking to him first, Nemesis “claimed” Sayid. Notice that he didn’t say anything at all to Kate?

    • Nick

      Awesome that you caught up man! Richard being in this episode answered so many questions and blew my mind too! I’m not entirely sure what Widmore’s purpose is here yet, but given his villainous depiction for almost the entire season, I wouldn’t be surprised if actually ended up on the Island to fight AGAINST Nemesis dude. It’s the unexpected that the writers are used to pulling now.

  • Hammer_Smashed_Hurtt

    Eastbound And Down.

    FTW.

  • yetzer hara

    Just a suggestion… I think this blog would serve its purpose better if it was posted on Wednesday *after* the episode airs that you’re talking about, instead of waiting a week and then posting a couple hours before the new episode.

    • Nick

      That’s a really good suggestion man. The original idea was to do it before it aired to get some theories out, act as a refresher, and pump people up! But doing it the day after might be more useful for actually engaging in discussion.

  • Vlood

    One major question i’m pondering right now after watching this episode is: if Jacob instructed Hurley to bring Sayid to the Temple, thus resulting in Sayid being drowned then somehow resurrected – then it all lead to Sayid killing the two in Temple and letting MIB into the Temple, destroying it and killing all remained Jacob’s followers – WHAT is the point then? what’s this long-going clever Jacob’s plan? so much violence and disastrous consequences only because Hurley just did what he was told….