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Jumping Darkness Parade, Levi/Werstler Sucks

EYAL LEVI ASSERTS THAT METAL AND CLASSICAL MUSIC ARE NOT THE SAME THING

Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 at 10:00am by

I’m sick and tired of hearing that classical music and metal music are pretty much the same thing in different time periods. No, they’re not. Okay? They’re not. There are some similarities, yes, but to say that they’re the same thing is about as accurate as saying that a tank is the same thing as a Ferrari. Sure, they’re both mechanized vehicles that can get you from point A to point B. Sure, they’re both powerful pinnacles of engineering and human ingenuity. But same thing? No.

Classical music and metal share some ingredients. First and foremost, the music is the music and it’s not changing. Yes, there may be some improvisation during solos, but pretty much the songs are the same every time they’re played. Same with classical music. Yes, the interpretation of the piece will change depending on the conductor, or the soloist may throw in different ornamentations here and there, but the piece is the piece just like the song is the song.

Both styles of music are extremely technically challenging. To truly pull off either parent genres, you have to be a master of your instrument. There’s no room for slouches. Yes, sometimes metal trends will bring in shitty bands and players and people do get to the top for political reasons, but by and large, you’ve got to be able to play your fucking instrument to stay on top. And if you can’t play your instrument that well you better know how to write a killer fucking tune. The kind of tune that people will always love. That’s how Lars Ulrich is forgiven for his not so amazing drumming. Same way that a high school orchestra will be forgiven for playing Beethoven’s 9th so badly that suicide seems like a perfectly reasonable way out of enduring a performance.

I feel like the most powerful moments in orchestral music can have the same kind of impact as the most powerful moments in meta,l but there’s a big, big difference in how those powerful moments happen. Metal is riff-based music. Riffs repeat. Contrasting riffs come in. They repeat. How far you go with that is up to you. A section of an Opeth song is still usually based on a riff, just like a section in a Lamb Of God song is based on a riff. Usually, as structures in metal develop, riffs are brought back in a manner that is almost completely identical or slightly altered – but its not nearly the same level of development as in orchestral music. And that’s due to lack of dynamics. Metal may go into soft sections, but that’s a departure from the norm. The soft sections in a Cynic or Opeth tune are not standard fare for metal. Metal is primarily an “everything louder than everything else” style of music.

Take the symphonic metal masterpiece Death Kult Armageddon by Dimmu Borgir for example. I will start by saying that I love that record. I love how the orchestra is worked in. I love how there are sections where the orchestra is the loudest thing in the mix. I love the ambience. I love that there are soft sections. But how many of those sections are there? Its still mainly 100 mph blast beat heaven. In orchestral music, the big badass sections are there to serve a dramatic purpose. They are not the mainstay. They are a part in a story. That is a fundamental difference. Metal is all power, all of the time, with little exception.Classical music is the full range of dynamic expression.

Also, with a few exceptions, like, say, Holst’s The Planets, or choral works such as requiems, classical structures are based around a few long movements. Basically, four movements per symphony. Yes, structures have varied through the ages, but that’s your typical setup. Dramatic 1st. Softer 2nd. Interesting 3rd. Super Dramatic 4th. Metal is based on songs.

I could go on and on ,but you get my point. They are not the same thing. Now that I’ve said my piece on that, let me recommend some classical pieces that are off the beaten path (i.e., not “Night On Bald Mountain”) that metal fans would enjoy.

I’d love to see a metal band try and pull this one off. You think you got skills son? You think you know what epic means? Think again –

Or how about that oh-so-breathtaking symphonic metal sound? Think you can match this with keyboards and face paint?

Do you believe that because you know some Harmonic Minor runs that you are classically trained or can even really call yourself a neo-classical player? Learn this, and then tell me –

It always annoys me when people idolize metal keyboard players because they can play guitar lines on the keys. Lets see them pull this off –

-EL

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  • Vakarm

    i got into metal BECAUSE i was into classical so much…. i agree with much of what is said in this article: Shostakovich, to me, is the most “metal” composer of the 20th century. Virtuosity is a common element in both genres, etc

    but you can’t compare a violinist with a metal guitarist not just because of what they are able to play, but because both instruments don’t have the same technical qualities. The violin’s bow allows players to do insane ligados. And the mix of bow strokes and pizzicato adds another difference. the guitar is also used to create polyphonic composition. Violons, unless you are pagannini, can’t do that kind of ornementation

    • Eyal Levi

      That’s why it’s so funny when guitarists compare themselves to Pagannini

      Its so ignorant

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Guenther/12800781 Eric Guenther

        dude Shostakovich rules… heavy as hell

        • Eyal Levi

          Especially the subject matter

      • Romaould the Loquacious

        Those kinda shits prolly don’t even know his work apart from his famous 5th Caprice that every “neo-classical” shithead can play or tries to.

  • Cincitucky

    Mr. Rogers ruined the amazement moment by chiming in with “I’m glad you’re my friend at that end.”

  • Ray

    nice post eyal! classical music gives us all a higher standard to reach for. for me it provides endless harmonic and melodic inspiration to work from. wagner and stravinsky hooked me for their intensity and everyone should check out some chopin at some point!

    • TanyaRocksMe

      Agree 100%. For me, when you understand classical music, everything else becomes easier. Except Jazz. That’s a whole other world.

      I believe every metal musician should have a firm grounding in classical, at least metalheads who appreciate metal for its complexity. In which case classical and Jazz are must-knows.

  • systemsdown

    I am in love with Eyal’s Iceman. My normal black one just seems so… inadequate…

    • Eyal Levi

      I’m in love with it too

      • James Koch

        Haha! What I’d do for a nice guitar like that, need to save some CD money and get a new one!

  • Tim

    Sacre Du Printemps is amazing. Debussy, Steven Reich, and John Adams are a few other composers I enjoy.

    • Eyal Levi

      All great shit!

    • Don’t-get-me-started-on-jazz

      I was waiting for someone to mention these, and I’m glad it didn’t have to be me. Debussy’s solo piano pieces along with those Satie composed are wonderful expressions of discordant passion; even on a superficial level, the technical prowess it takes to be able to perform any of the pieces is simply astouding. A friend of mine can play a solo piano Rachmaninov piece, but even then refuses to play Debussy or Satie’s work.

      The romantic era is most definately my preference just because of the sheer power and use of a ludicrous dynamic range (clue’s in the name, it’s just a shame that too many people don’t know the real definition of the word ‘romantic’!). Even Reich’s minimalism encompasses a use of dynamics that just blows a lot of contemporary approaches to composition and songwriting out of the water!

      I am glad someone has expressed this.

  • Anwar Fugaloo

    I’m glad someone finally said it. I’m sick and tired of metal and classical music being lumped together. They are the same in that they are music. In pretty much every other way, they are different. Same goes with jazz. Whenever someone says that jazz and metal are “pretty much the same,” it makes me want to puke on them and then force them to actually listen to some jazz so they can see they are retards. Sorry

  • SourDeez

    The piece “Erlkoenig” or The Erlking by Schubert might be classical, but I’ve always considered it to be the first metal song ever. For one, it is based around a riff, and a galloping riff at that. Also, the words to the song deal with a little boy who is dying and seeing visions of this evil forest creature. Pretty fucking metal. Also, Schubert died of syphilis from having sex with so many slutty women (groupies?).

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Basil-Chiasson/1683420052 Basil Chiasson

      I actually wrote a paper for college about that very thing

      • Eyal Levi

        I thought Schubert died for syphilis partly from having sex with slutty children

  • brent

    For someone so typically “on” with his articles, I think the argument here is pretty weak. Those of us who compare metal to classical music are doing so probably because we have a basis of comparison (meaning we actually listen to both.) And while your examples would indicate that you do too, doesn’t the idea that you don’t agree with this common sentiment potentially imply that you’re in the minority on this one? I’m not just talking about “symphonic metal” either. Even a band like The Haunted incorporates alot of the same basic elements in their moodier tunes as say, Edvard Grieg does in a composition like “Aase’s Death”. To me, saying that the two styles aren’t undeniably linked because bands exist that are classified as metal but don’t always incorporate classical elements, is like saying that AC/DC isn’t rock n’ roll because they don’t always sound like The Beatles. For what it’s worth though, I always look forward to the articles from you and Paul above any others!

    • MSalonen

      You’re missing the point. They share a lot of similar stylistic elements at times, but they are based on extremely different foundations and are therefor very fundamentally different..

      • brent

        Metal: typically diatonic, with focus on rhythmic structure, demanding instrumentation, frequent aesthetic shifts, and tight orchestrated changes.

        Classical: wait a second…..all that same shit.

        How exactly are the foundations “fundamentally different”?

        • TanyaRocksMe

          Classical music is not typically diatonic, though it is largely. Most classical music that exists is, because as of the 20th century, composers began to experiment with composing atonally and throwing out the concept of diatonic writing.

          Eyal makes his case well: Metal is based around riffs. The same riffs are played over and over, might be changed (sometimes), but still are the basis for the song. Classical does not follow this principle in that the melodies composers write may (and often do, but not as frequently as metal in the same piece) be reused and ornamented, but are not always. Classical melodies also often tend to be much longer that the typical metal riff, giving the piece a larger chunk of music for the composer to work with.

    • Eyal Levi

      I realize I’m in the minority on this one and felt compelled to write about it. That’s kinda the point.

      • brent

        Point taken. Avalanche Of Worms is epic, by the way.

        • Eyal Levi

          Glad you dig it !

  • Ty

    Don’t completely agree with the article, but I pleased to see you called them pieces and not songs haha. I was also very pleased to see the Chopin etude.

    • Ty

      Sorry to double post, but I think that when people call the two genres the same thing, they really intend to say “are very similar” or “have similar patterns/elements”. Obviously they are not literally the same thing, except perhaps Cacophony, Yngwie Malmsteen, etc…

  • http://www.metality.net iRoar

    Much Love! (throws girls panties on blog post)

    On a more intellectual note, this was a great post man…Cheers for taking over MetalSucks for a day.
    AOW, Is one hell of a release!

  • attackmole

    Metal in the end is still pop rooted. For the most part, it goes through verse-chorus-verse-solo etc. Classical music is pretty much the opposite of that. You’ll get a theme at the beginning, and maybe you might hear it one or two more times but it’ll be fucked around a little and you’re gonna go through a hell of a lot of progression to get there.

  • http://myspace.com/oneirophobiaband Christian

    hmm i dont think people know how to choose theyre words. i think metal is an evolution of classical music. true, they are very different in certain aspects, but share many similar qualities. i really feel that if beethoven heard necrophagist or yngwie today or any other classicaly influenced metal band/musician that hed love the structures and melodys going on. metal to me is what classical music would sound like if the composers and musicians had effects, amps, and a really loud mongoloid. this is my opinion, dont hate.

    • attackmole

      Classical music is melody based. Metal, near by definition, doesn’t really have much of that. It’s an entirely different approach to songwriting.

  • http://myspace.com/oneirophobiaband Christian

    hmm i dont think people know how to choose theyre words. i think metal is an evolution of classical music. true, they are very different in certain aspects, but share many similar qualities. i really feel that if beethoven heard necrophagist or yngwie today or any other classicaly influenced metal band/musician that hed love the structures and melodys going on. metal to me is what classical music would sound like if the composers and musicians had effects, amps, and a really loud mongoloid. this is my opinion, dont hate..

  • Beastmaster

    I respect and enjoy talent. But give me the brutal slamming guttural death by way of Devourment anyday over most of that.

    Call me uncultured, do I look like I give a fuck? :D

    • Eyal Levi

      I dunno – There’s no photo of you posted

    • Chris D.

      I’m with you, man. I like some classical every now and then, but it doesn’t speak to me the way metal does.

  • Keith Brown

    YESSSSSSSSS go Eyal

  • http://www.alexmorganimaging.com ALEXMORGANIMAGING.com

    I like how you mentioned Dimmu Borgir and Heaven in the same paragraph.

  • Bicro

    You magnificent bastard.

  • killdozer666

    fred rogers’ cameo made this post

  • Deaner

    Wow, that Andre Watts vid sent chills down my spine.

    • Eyal Levi

      Andre Watts is the fucking MAN

  • Master Chah

    The last movement of the Rite of Spring by Stravinsky is pretty epic too.

  • Rachel

    I agree with Eyal completely. I have read about and listened to plenty of classical music. Metal and classical just are not the same. Classical music may have, at one time, helped develop metal, but metal hasn’t replaced classical. In previous musical eras, Baroque era music was replaced with Classical, Classical with Romantic, Romantic to Impressionistic, Impressionistic to 20th Century, 20th century to… metal? Not quite so. Classical music is still being composed. Metal has not replaced classical. Attend a world premeire of a “classical” composition in this day and age, and it will sound nothing like metal. As a generalization (neo classicism is the exception) modern classical composition will be very atonal, and will not sound like Rhapsody of Fire. Rhapsody of Fire, with it’s so-called classical influence, will simply be a cheap imitation of a Verdi opera. If anything, metal developed out of Jazz. See: use of G Blues in Black Sabbath’s namesake song.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrea-Voulgaris/663407462 Andrea Voulgaris

    I think a lot of music either stems off of either jazz or classical. As a saxophone player, I study both classical and jazz (mostly classical though). One thing that I’ve noticed when I play a metal song by ear, is that it feels more like I’m playing classical than jazz. Despite the fact that metal often includes improv, I’d say it’s definitely closer to a classical style than jazz. I agree though in saying that metal is not the same thing as classical. It just has strong classical influences.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michel-Giroux-Burroughs/574086565 Michel Giroux-Burroughs

    Eyal, I gotta ask you, do you consider classical guitar, well, classical music? ‘Cause I know many people who say classical guitar is not on the same level as, say, a string orchestra.

    Also, my guitar teacher (classical) often tries to convince me that only classical music can have mood changes in a single song, that metal is based on the “one song=one idea” principle, but I simply cannot agree with him. Just look at the easiest example ever: Metallica. Battery and Fight Fire With Fire are two “angry” songs, but both start with a mellow classical piece. Master of Puppets’ interlude is far from the rest of the song, musically. To Live Is To Die has so many mood changes I won’t bother to count them all. What are your thoughts?

    • Eyal Levi

      I think your teacher doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to metal.

  • Kevin Halsted

    I honestly think its less about how similar they are too each other, and more about how dissimilar they are from most other things. If you clump metal, classical and jazz together in other ways your being ignorant and foolish. I personally use such a comparison in a conversation with someone who is of the “metal is only brute, angry music all the time” ilk. Though true some of the time, their are exceptions. But again, its more like dissimilar to others rather than similar to each other. Also, metal seems to be more willing to borrow ideas and expand with said ideas from classical and jazz more than any other long standing music form. Its not jazz-metal. Its metal, stealing/borrowing jazz ideals in small dozes.
    At any rate I pretty much agree with everything you said.

  • anthony

    if you play in a band called psycroptic or spawn of possession yeah its the same…haha. metal sucks compared to classical. i agree with this article.

  • Vikingfromhell890

    Because of this post, I put The Planet’s on my mp3 player and was listening to it. Mars Bringer of War is the most epic thing ever, besides Night On Bald Mountain. I loved playing that in high school.

  • gATO

    On the other hand, you need a full orchestra to achieve the same volumen as a Marshall up to 11 \m/

    now, seriously speaking about volume: on that first clip, is that a very small stage, or a huge orchestra, as I think it is?

  • Xn0r

    I’ve never thought that they were “the same”, but I’ve often thought things like “metal is closer to classical than most pop music.” Metal is more akin to classical than say, dance music, or rap. The complexity, key and time changes, etc, within the same song in a metal song can be compared to similar changes seen between symphonic movements, for instance.

    • Xn0r

      Also, Dmitri Shostokovich FTW! The 10th is one of my favorites of his. And he’s probably the most “metal” composers I’m familiar with.

  • jo

    I know I’m late with this, but I’d just like to point out (i.e. boast :) ) that I was at the Prom in the first YouTube clip, and that it was the best non-metal concert I have ever been to. I love Shostakovich, and the performance was so moving, I had tears running down my face at regular intervals; the second half was more light-hearted, and the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra’s enthusiasm was absolutely infectious. They got three standing ovations, several Mexican waves, and played three encores. I still get shivers thinking about it. Totally worth queueing for three hours, and the £5 (!) we paid for standing tickets.

    On the main point of the article, I kind of agree and kind of disagree. I mean, a Picasso is very different to a Rembrandt, but the line of descent is quite clear; so it is in music. I tend to hear more the argument that “if Beethoven/Bach/Prokofiev were alive today, he would be in a metal band” which is not really something that can be proved, obviously, but holds a certain surface appeal to the intellectual snob metalhead. There’s also a large crossover between metal fans and lovers of classical music; they’re my two preferred genres, for sure, and I am not alone. I think both genres give me something I can’t quite find elsewhere: something along the lines of a sense of the epic, a feeling of drama and intensity that most other genres don’t offer for me.

  • steven vinson

    hi, like to chime in here and agree with eyal. as a practically life long classical musician and almost life long metal head he gets the nail pretty much on the head. i think understanding the difference between the folk tradition of songwriting and the different classical forms ( i.e. sonata form ) helps greatly in understanding how different the two types of music are. i guess how i’d put it is that metal and classical are somewhat similar asthetically at times, but the way in which classical music and metal are written and structured are very very different. o, and for some more good listening material might i suggest shostakovitch’s 8th string quartet and ravel’s gaspard de la nuit as performed by pogorelich. and watch the youtube vids of pogorelich with his teacher working on gaspard. amazing stuff.

  • Fuck Jazz Nuff Said

    Ok Now listen here…I was born in a musicians family,both of my parents are professional classical musicians,and of course that means i had to learn piano from the age of 6-7 and than trumpet and all that .And i enjoy listening to classical music very much and playing it on my guitar but heres the thing:nowadays classical music is all in museum format kind of thing ,that means there are VERY few ppl(specially young ppl)will listen to that.I agree metal and classical are not the same of course but metal has its ruts from classical music i mean of course there are many kinds of metal so of course there will be some jazz-blues influence cos metal is the most universal kind of music .But its just pisses me of when ppl say that metal came from blues and shit like tht.Metal came from classical that is a fact and if you listen to composers like Vagner(which is probably the most ‘metal’ composer of all time)you ll realise that.Metal is like modern classical music.I ve been listening to metal since like 11(i first heard metal when i was 6 and was blown away i think the band was Bloodbath or CC …just didnt know it was called metal or what the hell it was back than haha),so i know what im talking about.
    PS Dmitry Shostakovitch is indeed amazing Along with Musorgskiy (i get a feeling thats why metal is getting so big in Russia this days haha)

  • Captainskurge

    What about Waltari’s  Yeah! Yeah! Die! Die! Death Metal Symphony in Deep C?