CRO-MAGS FOUNDER COMPARES BAND TO BLACK SABBATH — “BUT ON A MUCH MUCH SMALLER LEVEL”

Wednesday, May 19th, 2010 at 3:30pm by

The thorny history of New York hardcore pioneers Cro-Mags can’t be done justice in a pithy blog post, what with myriad lineup changes and squabbles that fortunately haven’t harmed the band’s legacy as much as, say, L.A. Guns. The current incarnation of Cro-Mags now playing gigs features Age Of Quarrel-era vocalist John Joseph and drummer Mackie Jayson, yet excludes guitarist Parris Mayhew and bassist/Best Wishes vocalist Harley Flanagan. In a recent interview with the excellent Double Cross blog, Flanagan–one of the founders of the band–had this to say about the situation:

[I]t’s all for money anyways with all these promoters and shit selling a fake band. They can claim whatever they want, it ain’t really the band, it’s some really fake shit, and all the new kids, well, they dont know any better so I guess they’ll take what they can get. I mean I understand, they’re fans of the music, so, it’s like going to see Ozzy instead of Sabbath or going to see Sabbath without Ozzy – but on a much much much smaller level. Believe me I’m not trying to compare us to Sabbath, trust me – you take what you can get. They just want to hear the songs and have a good time – they didn’t see it back in the day so they take what they can get. They dont know what they’re missing, they didn’t see it back in the day and they never saw the real shit. So they’re happy to see whatever they can and I understand.

Now I’ve seen Joseph’s latest Cro-Mags play a couple of times in the past six months, including a set in the intimately cramped upstairs room at this year’s New England Metal And Hardcore Festival — and they’re fucking awesome. However, being too young to have seen the band back in the eighties, Flanagan’s point about not knowing what I’m missing resonates. Still, Joseph, Jayson, and the rest do a great job of bringing those classic songs to life. Flanagan has a retort for that as well:

John can get whatever Cro-Mag fan he wants on bass but it ain’t gonna sound like me. It might sound sorta like the song, they may fake the left hand but they can’t fake the right, and besides that he doesn’t have anybody with him that wrote any of the songs. It’s all kind of pitiful to me, it’s real fake. I mean I’m not trying to take away who he is or what they are, but still, what they are doing is fake… Craig [Setari] from SOIA knows it is not the real shit, whenever he runs into Sean Killkenny or other mutual friends of ours he never says yeah I’m playing with the ‘Cro-Mags’ or I’m filling in with the ‘Cro-Mags’ or jamming with the ‘Cro-Mags’ or anything like that, he always says yeah I’m filling in with ‘John’s thing’…

Clearly, we’re not likely to ever see a reunion of the Age Of Quarrel Cro-Mags lineup anytime soon–and probably never with such sentiments as what we see above. I’m no lawyer (though I encourage my colleague Antonin Skullia Esq. to pursue that angle) so I can’t speak to proper ownership of the band, but clearly the outspoken Flanagan feels entitled to use the Cro-Mags name. After all, both he and Joseph have gone on the road with various versions of the group (again, L.A. Guns style!) under various monikers. Flanagan’s situation is hardly unique, but indeed it would be nice to see the guys put aside their differences — if at all possible — and regroup.

-GS

  • Alex_P

    I also saw the New-Mags, and I enjoyed them. Of course, I was born in ’91.

    One thing, though. The way he described Ozzy Sabbath as the only real Sabbath offends me, especially because of Sunday’s tragedy. The real Sabbath had Ozzy OR Dio. The two essential parts of Sabbath are Butler and Iommi.

    • http://www.metalsucks.net/category/scraping-genius-off-the-wheel/ Gary Suarez

      I think Harley’s comment is less about Dio-era Sabbath and more about those dubious albums where neither Ozzy nor Dio were part of the band.

      • GoingDeaf?

        Actually, I think he’s more talking about live performances…. like going to an Ozzy or Dio show to see them play Black Sabbath songs without Iommi, Butler, or Ward.

        I don’t think he was making an Ozzy vs. Dio comment.

      • zilch

        Don’t be a moron, Born Again is vintage.

    • stu1

      Not to detract from Dio’s death, but a 67 year old man who’s been battling stomach cancer, passing away, isn’t really a “tragedy.”

      • the hate machine

        you say it isnt a tragedy but , if you had children and you died at 67 would your kids or wife feel it was tragedy? In our advanced world to die at 67 is not good at all. Cancer is so widespread in this world and the fact that it can be cured but is more lucrative to the medical industry is a real tragedy.
        My best friends wife died June of last year at 36 years old from cancer and left behind a 1 year old a 3 year old and a 12 year old and they feel the tragedy every day of their lives. That was a truly dumb statement on your part. I am guessing you are really young and dont have an understanding of mortality.

        • stu1

          Your example is a tragedy and it’s a completely different scenario than the one at hand. I don’t think it’s a dumb statement, at all, and I stand behind it. Not young, for sure, and have lost many friends, relatives, acquaintances, over the years. If you’re 67 and in good health and you get hit by a car, yes, tragedy. Sept 11 was a tragedy. A young child dying of cancer is a tragedy. Dio is just a very sad event. I’m guessing you just don’t have an understanding of reality.

          • anarchore

            Fuck you it was a deep tragedy… he was going to tour with Heaven and Hell, had new albums in the works, and a tour with his own band… and you say no tragedy… fuck you.

        • stu1

          And according to a CDC study from 2 years ago, the average life expectancy for a white American male born in 1950 is around 66.

      • sdgggggf

        Its tragic when anybody dies, idiot.

        • stu1

          Nope, it’s not.

          • sdgggggf

            Oh, sorry I must have forgot… when someone ceases to exist, its fine… its great. Who cares if people miss them? Who cares, right? They were old, so its not sad.

            Nope, not tragic at all.

            Fucking moron.

          • stu1

            Grow up. Learn about life. People die. Especially elderly people. You still sleep with a teddy bear?
            People “missing” someone, doesn’t make it a “tragedy.”

          • sdgggggf

            DEATH IN GENERAL IS TRAGIC. How does this escape you? You’re telling me to grow up when you can’t even appreciate the loss of a life? Fuck off, dude.

          • stu1

            No, it’s not. Is any and all death, a “calamity?” A “disastrous event?” That’s what a tragedy is. Apparently you’re stunted by death, in general, thus, you should grow up and learn to deal with reality. Oh, and maybe try getting a dictionary so you can look up the big words you use.

        • sdgggggf

          Yes, any death is disastrous. And no, I don’t see how that’s an immature stance at all, or how it means I can’t deal with reality. I don’t even believe in an afterlife or anything. I just think that death is a terrible thing all around. I don’t see how that’s wrong, immature, or anything else. And I certainly don’t see how someone being old or having cancer lessens the feeling of loss that someone might feel.

          • sdgggggf

            And just because death is a fact of life doesn’t mean that it doesn’t suck when someone dies. There’s ugly things everywhere in this world, rape and murder and death are all around us. And they are all terrible.

            It must be great to hear about all those things and not feel a thing.

          • stu

            Something “sucking” does not equal “tragedy.”

          • sdgggggf

            Sorry teach for my improper vocabulary. I hope you’re grading on a curve.

          • anarchore

            Stu is a fucking moron and a piece of shit troll.

  • sethcore

    i don’t think it’ll ever happen (although i’d love to see it). if you read jj’s book he tells it like it is. on more than one occasion they played, made $ & harley took it all & ran off. this happened alot & jj never made a fuckin dime on age of quarrel. every time jj forgave harley & they played harley would do the same shit. i saw the original cro-mags when i was like 17 & i just saw them @ the bnb bowl & they were fuckin fantastic. if what jj says ain’t true then harley needs to relay his side.until then i believe what john has to say & although talented, harley’s a piece of shit.

    • GoingDeaf?

      Yup…. like you said, it’s only Joseph’s side of the story…. but even if only 75% is true, Harley is a real scumbag. I can’t imagine a reunion is at all possible.

  • sethcore

    exactly. if what jj said ain’t true, i never saw anything with harley’s side of the story & if you read what harley’s sayin in double cross right now he thinks his shit don’t stink

  • Jesus

    “Believe me I’m not trying to compare us to Sabbath,” way to fuck up the title

    • heebman169

      chyuh. what is this, fox or msnbc?

      • Alex_P

        Nope, he admitted to his mistake and changed the headline. FOX would call Nazism and break down in tears.

  • stu1

    On top of their beef, I think both dudes actually hate Parris more than they hate each other, so that makes an “Age of Quarrel” reunion even less likely.

  • http://www.heavystreet.com/ Heavy Street

    hahaha…..Love the LA Guns reference. I also hear there will be two Bang Tango’s out on the road soon. YES! Maybe Harley Mags can get the opening slot on that tour.

  • evilfatguy

    Holy fuck, these old guys have so much drama wrapped up in this shit. Have you guys ever read some of the shots that Flanagan and Mayhew take at one another? They’re like grown-up children.
    Shit happened, original members let their egos get in the way of reconciliation, other original members just want to play the music for the kids. Where’s the problem? If you want to talk shit, talk your shit, but they all had the chance to do something special again, and they fucked it up because of shit that happened almost 20 years ago.

  • bucketochicken

    Who the fuck is Black Sabbath? Sounds made up.

    • zen dudeist

      sounds like witches, if you ask me.
      what’s pop music coming to?

  • FongChung

    Finally, Harley has some stones to call out John Joseph again on his money making campaign of bullshit. Have any of you met John Joseph before? Let me just begin by saying, he is selling the “Cro Mags” as a gimmick to get a bunch of hipsters to enjoy them when 15 years ago they wouldn’t be caught dead at a show. You have to understand, with this whole old guys revival in hardcore these stupid younger Integrity clones are coming out left and right. Side by side, cashing in for more profit than you can imagine.

    • stu1

      Met both many many times. And Harley’s been crying about this for about a year and a half all over the internet. There’s no “finally.” You’re partially right, they are playing to people who wouldn’t have gone to see them 15 years ago. Mainly because they were 5-8 years old at the time. I’ve seen the current line up about 10 times, and have seen no “hipsters.” Crowd looks like a young hardcore show.

  • Cryzthormagnusian

    I love how he’s talking so much shit on one hand and saying ‘but I’m not talking shit’ on the other hand.

    It’s giving interviews like this and stirring the pot that is why the band will never see a reunion and anymore I could care less.

  • chauncey chompers

    he says “not to compare us to Black Sabbath” and you dumbasses say he compares himself to black sabbath. way to go.

  • sethcore

    Why shouldn’t John Joseph try to make some $ now? When the original Cro-Mags played & made some loot Harley took off with it (always). Harley cries about this shit on every fuckin message board that has hardcore in the name & JJ picks himself up & plays shows (with some great hc musicians). So who’s the better man?

  • Doc

    Cro Mags? Seems I read their name in the liner notes of my Carnivore album back in ’87 or so, but I thought they meant, you know, the Geico guys.

    Whatever.