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MishaSucks.net/Gear_Geek

MISHASUCKS.NET/GEER_GEEK: ARE 4x12s A THING OF THE PAST?

Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 4:30pm by

mishasucks.net/geargeek

If any of you guys know me, you know that I have a permanent hard-on for my Fractal AxeFx Ultra, and although some of you may hate my tone, you would be silly to think that you couldn’t dial in a tone that your weird ears like, and then some. This one is for the gear nerds out there.

This is more than a Fractal plug, I swear. Let’s call this more of an open test/experiment in progress because I am in the midst of quite an awesome dilemma at the moment. I am stuck between deciding on how best to use my AxeFx in a live situation, because both options it affords are amazing.

We just did a little tour in Australia with Dillinger and Maylene, and on that tour we were getting amps from backline companies (read: different amps every day). So we figured the best way to get some consistency would be to plug our AxeFxs into the effects loop return of the amps and use them for their tube power sections. This worked out pretty damn well for the most part; you could hear how each different poweramp had its own distinct sound, but when it was awesome, it was AWESOME. Only at one show did I actually get the amp I had asked for, and that was an Engl Invader (150 to be more precise) and that EL34 poweramp sounded so godly that I thought perhaps that was the way to go. Or at least something similar: a good tube poweramp (may make more sense for a rack unit ala Fryette 2/50/2 or Mesa 2:90) through a 4×12 cabinet. Good old Preamp->Tube Poweramp->Cab->Mic->PA in a live context, which is what 99% of bands do nowadays. And with this setup you get that amazing feel of a tube amp and that response they are known for.

However there is another option with the AxeFx, and that is going direct.

I have always had a slight issue with this for 2 reasons. One, I didnt like the idea of having to rely on monitors and the house soundguy to have ANY stage sound at all. Sure you could go the in-ear route if you are made of money, but that is EXPENSIVE, at least for us as an entire band at this point in time. The second issue is that we still play shithole venues where the PA is just for the kick and vocals at best, and not having stage sound would force us to use that PA for the guitars which would be a huge epic fail.

So I realized that perhaps going Full Range Full Response might be a solution to this. Essentially that means getting a nice PA speaker (or something that can replicate the full range of sound unlike a guitar cab which is very limited spectrally) to replace your cab. The PA speaker would be replacing your poweramp and cab (and you would run cab and poweramp simulation on the Axefx), and would also allow you to go direct to the board at the same time in a daisy chain. This way you have stage sound for yourself and the crowd. I tried this set-up recently with a set of Mackie HD1531′s and man, I have to say that it’s unreal. It made me realize just how directional traditional cabs are and why I am tempted to crank them so much live. I wrote a column about how to set your live tone, and that was based entirely off of the directional nature of cabs and the way that cabs react to louder volumes. This is completely different when running an FRFR setup; the sound is incredibly consistent from any position and volume, and the sound dispersion is unreal. Maybe the only debatable downside is that it doesnt sound as inherently “amp like,” but then again you have to think of it as the final sound, as with the traditional method that “amp like” sound would be miked up and run through a PA where it would lose that sound in the end. So in the grand scheme of things I still think this new method is better overall.

I’m going to stop here for now because I want to get that setup and try it at practice and A/B it with the tube poweramp/cab setup. Eventually I might want to do one tour with each to compare them in a more relevant context. But this should be a fun (long term) experiment and I will update everyone when I have more useful info.

-Bulb

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Razza-Tu/717008242 Razza Tu

    That there’s some interesting shit good sir!

  • Patrick

    if it doesn’t sound amp like, then you lose the “rock” part of the music, which is the core of the music you are playing. Playing live is awesome because it has all the imperfections and little things to make it a live show. Sounding that consistent is for recording, not a live show.

    • djabthrash

      Misha he’s still playing live dude… and the tone is not more consistent than a miked 4×12…

    • bulb

      Nah it still sounds like an amp, it still has the aspects that make it sound and feel amazing, it just sounds like an amp that has been miked already, which is kinda the point when you are going direct. It basically sounds and feels exactly how your amp sounds when you have it through your monitors, but with way better dispersion.

  • Ben

    To answer the question you pose in the title of your article… No, 4x12s and traditional cabs in general are not a thing of the past. You’re part of a very niche market within a niche market right now (guitarists who care about gear who are okay with using modelers). Sure, the axefx has been getting great buzz but I’d be willing to bet it will never extend beyond that niche within a niche. There’s always been “the best modeller ever” within the guitar community and the simple fact that gear whore and tube junky go together like pb & j simply prevent it from ever going anywhere.

    So, even if we assume that you’re getting incredible sound out of your frfr setup, the tech to use it is never going to gain the momentum it would need to be an industry standard.

    Then consider that, even amongst those who are using or would consider using modellers, going frfr is another stretch

    I, personally, am using a GSP1101 (I’d go for and axefx but, quite frankly, at the level I’m at spending that kind of cash would be ridiculous) at the moment and even I won’t consider going any route but GSP>power amp>cab. So, yes, even my head is stuck a bit in tradition.

    It’s great that you’ve got something that you feel is working great for you but it’s not going to become a standard any time soon.

    • bulb

      Hey dude, i totally respect where you were coming from. And perhaps i posed that question as such for a bit more shock value than its worth. Im still going to say that i have a bit more faith that if more and more people switch over to FRFR that it will inevitably be something that people question, especially if they see the results and like them, but yeah its not necessarily ACTUALLY going to get rid of 4x12s.
      All in all, it is about what sounds good to you and not about what you are using, and the reason im considering the switch is specifically because of how much better it sounds and how simple it makes my live rig.

      • Jack

        Hey Ben- i don’t think its all that nichey, and if it is its certainly not going to stay that way.

        You get dream theatre, steve vai, and cynic onboard and you start to get recognition.

        Steve Vai dude.

  • GoingDeaf?

    It’s an interesting idea… and in some ways would be a better experience for the crowd since your tone is going to sound like the record. If you’re going for an ultra clean, super processed guitar sound then this method might be ideal.

    On the other hand, there’s nothing like the feel of playing through a cranked cab. I’ve done the modeler through PA method a fair amount, and even though it sounds clean, there is definitely ‘something’ missing in the feel. Might not make a difference to the audience at 110 dB, but it sure makes a difference to the player and his performance.

    There’s also the visual aspect. The cabinet on stage has a certain visual power and vibe that FR speakers certainly do not have. We associate half and full stack guitar rigs with metal, and without them something feels a bit off.

    It’s really all about what works for you, but I don’t see myself giving up my tube head and 4×12 anytime soon.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Ferguson/1409790546 Tom Ferguson

      Hey dude, you either haven’t used the Axe-fx before, or weren’t using it properly because it honest to (insert higher being) sounds just as, if not better, than tube amps.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Ferguson/1409790546 Tom Ferguson

        Depending on how well you make your sounds obviously (Y)

  • the hate machine

    I run a line 6 x3live direct to the board and also since it has so many out configs i have it hooked up to my power amp and 4×12 cab. I use the amp strictly for my monitor and get a nice stereo field between it and my stage monitor. I think todays amp modelers are way better than just a few years ago and i am considering dropping my amp setup because the line 6 direct sounds crystal clear and i get every bit of nuance out of the tones. Mind you im not playing in a metal band but a cover band so i really have a variety of tones i need to get through 4 sets of music in a night. I read a lot of good things about axe fx but thats way too pricey for me theses days. I am sure it does the same as my rig but probably even cleaner tone. I get a super fat rhythm tone going direct and my leads cut through everything in the room. 4×12 cabs piss me off because i like my shit to be LOUD. You cant hear what your cab is putting out being that close to it. Nothing funnier than seeing people in the first few rows getting their heads disintegrated by my cab though. My next gig i am going to reduce to a combo amp on a stand aimed at my head with the direct setup also.

    • the hate machine

      I wanted to add that i use a line 6 variax 700 almost exlusively for live settings. so my whole chain is digital and still has huge balls.

    • GoingDeaf?

      In my non-metal band both me and the other guitarist go completely direct…. we don’t even bring amps to the gigs and it’s nice. It does limit what kinds of places you can play though, as the PA and monitoring has to be up to par.

      Once my metal/harcore band got rolling, though, I didn’t consider anything else but going back to a half stack for the power and feel.

      • the hate machine

        lucky for me we have our own PA and monitors .All mackie and jbl eon. last place we played they complained we were too loud. lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Punch-McChainsaw/100000274695976 Punch McChainsaw

      Same, I’ve been using a Vetta + Avatar 4×12. I prefer to go direct for the PA and use the cab as my personal monitor. And it’s just awesome that it affords me the flexibility to adjust my stage volume without affecting the house or monitor mixes either.

      • bulb

        You know whats interesting, it seems to me like 90% of the people who dont like this idea havent really tried it, and that most of the people who have dont look back!

  • Bubbles

    Meshuggah goes direct and they’re sound is better than any metal band I’ve seen. You guys already rip off their 8 strings, their tone and general feel, why not take it one step further.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Barnes/506393858 Paul Barnes

      The closest Meshuggah song I can find to Periphery is Straws Pulled At Random because it sounds slightly happy and optimistic near the end :P

      I adore both Periphery and Meshuggah. They’re Apples and Oranges mate – both fruit but they taste different!

      Interesting article too, I’m looking forward to the result.

      • tremstern

        Yeah, they’re certainly both fruit.

        • bulb

          This is true…

    • Rage

      You could have just said “I’m a douche”

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Gingras/691170904 Michael Gingras

        so this is the new thing, a band that has any “djent” at all is automatically a Meshuggah ripoff? Lemme guess, if it has breakdowns it’s deathcore right? Bubbles your a stupid fuck

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Francisco-Boni-Neto/1502963451 Francisco Boni Neto

          but djent is the new deathcore. silly.

          • steve vinson

            djentcore, you buttfuckers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sam-Patton/835574967 Sam Patton

    Love reading these, had the pleasure of throwing the horns up for Misha last week with Dillinger Escape Plan. Hard to say which band was better on the night \M/

    • Buh?

      Where did you see them? I was at the Sydney Metro show and, I hate to say it Bulb, but your sound that night sucked. The guitar was way down in the mix for the first half of the set and completely absent in the first song – which was unfortunate, as Light is my favourite song of yours.

  • FongChung

    Meshuggah destroys this awful Linkin Park sounding band anyday.

    • Jake Jones

      Whoa now, it’s the first “younger” band for a while to have a distinct heavy sound. I’m glad that there’s finally some talent on the table. OR would you rather listen to BMTH and the other young bands that are popular nowadays?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Francisco-Boni-Neto/1502963451 Francisco Boni Neto

        yes, periphery is the first younger band that actually has talent. I don’t mind their “happy” sound.

  • Nathan

    periphery rules! play toronto and i’m there, buddaaay!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

    I can appreciate this article and the valid points it somehow cohesively touches on. But the fact remains that in ear monitors will be more affordable because they are the future, the AxeFx is a piece of horseshit for elitist douchemakers that complain about not having good enough tone through a Digitech RP-90 and decent tube gear is just “too expensive” but except for this cool little piece of shit AxeFx and its awesome tone through this shitty equipment shit through the house monitors because then the drunk sound guy can fuck it up all he wants and still “get it right fuck you very much, and Mesa Tube Amps are the shit except for the Rectos.

    Go die.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

      Oh and Meshuggah is the shit and Periphery needs to play more shows this summer…in the midwest…in Minneapolis. There.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

        Oh and the AxeFx will never replace the sound of 6 4x12s at full volume from a Mesa290.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

          Because the AxeFx sucks ass compared to 6 mesa 4x12s from a triaxis/engl tone blend of fuckyourface brutality.

          • bulb

            Haha at this point i cant even tell if you are agreeing with me or not!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

            I honestly thought that this was dream when I wrote this. I was beyond shitfaced last night…I honestly woke up, puked, drank some water, puked, then checked my email, before stumbling upon the mess I made on my favorite website.

            The AxeFx is a decent piece of gear if you don’t want the hassle of a big rig setup. I maintain that a Boss MT-2 through a Mesa 2:90 and 6 Mesa 4×12 cabs beats the crap outta it, but I guess I’m a snobby analog tube kinda guy that really doesn’t care about what other people hear rather more about what I hear 6ft in front of my rig.

            I totally did not intend on disrespecting you, Mr. Bulb in any fashion, and if I did I apologize.

            I’m off to AA boys! Cheers!

          • bulb

            Hehe no worries dude! Not offended in the least! Hell if you can get your dream tone from that setup, then nuff said!

    • GoingDeaf?

      You should totally drink more.

      • jetpackracecar

        a BOSS PEDAL? Really? Against the AxeFX?

        Go smoke another bowl, killer.

  • vasteburai

    My guitar player in our two piece band uses a orange rocker30 to sunn0))) 6×10, 1973 ampeg basshead to fender bassman cab, 1974 peavy pa head to fender bassman, no effects. It makes the PA obsolete! Haha.

    • bulb

      In this context you probably should stick with what you got!

  • huh? what? I said turn it down!

    I would go with an ENGL, Krank, or perhaps a Deizel amp. Any tube head is a MUST with a modeler for warm tone.
    BUT… send a line-out to a powered 2×18″ sub and run 2 Krank Rev One 4×12′s in stereo on either side of the sub… That will give you Uber-Manly God-like sound.
    Krank is one of the few companies who make cabs that aren’t plywood/chipboard crap.
    Solid poplar is the shit, Dood.

    PS; fuck the FOH soundman, take control of your sound at the source.

    • bulb

      A cab will never have the dispersion of a PA, the PA will generally be the final step of your sound, with your stage sound being a bit of a fill in. Unless you are playing a tiny club. I cant tell you how many times i have played a stage where my Engl has been cranked thru 2 4x12s and then all i end up hearing are my monitors anyways. Its like the cabs arent even there. And guess what, that awesome “amp feel” is gone once i am hearing the sound through the monitors.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Miguel-Hbb/100000707063994 Miguel Hbb

    I didn´t understand a shit. It must be because I´m a n00b when it comes to sound technique.

  • vagoo

    i would need a tube amp no matter what I think. Though, I’m sure no one in the crowd would appreciate the difference, but I am selfish like that. For me rule number 1 is that I should like how it sounds because then I play way better. The crowd can listen to whatever I poop out at them.

    Also, I would prefer my 40 lb, bazillion dollar pedal board because I have hand-picked each sound to my liking, and I don’t think any modeler will quite do it for me. Though the convenience is tempting. I just stick with a 2×12 (THD) and an old Hiwatt 50watt amp. Mic it and yell at the sound guy til he gets it right…it’s hard to make Hiwatts sound bad in any setting.

    What was the question? I like pedals…. not computers…

    • bulb

      Agreed, you should definitely like the way it sounds. I think the Mackie setup sounds and feels ridiculous which is the main reason i am interested in switching. It also simplifies my setup greatly because all i need is the mackie, the axefx and a footswitch.
      I used to use a crazy rack with an Engl with a GCX/Ground Control setup for my pedals and midi switching and a Gmajor for additional effects routed through the loop, and although that sounded great, i actually think the Axefx sounds better and is a lot simpler because in that rig, if something went wrong, it could be in one of like 15 different places, it was a mess to troubleshoot. I want the simplest sounding setup that sounds amazing to my ears at least and this seems to be the way to go. Ill find out for sure at practice/on tour, but after spending some time with this setup im really sold!

  • Blah Blah

    Thank you Misha for continuing to post on this site even though all you get is naive, nonsensical bullshit in return!

    • bulb

      No worries dude, i spend a lot of time on the internet, i am kinda desensitized to it at this point and im happy to contribute!

      • willingwell

        As someone who has seen Periphery and your gear lust evolve for a while, it is really cool to hear you dish some tone advice Misha! Maybe you could try and comment on (or dispel) some tone myths that you’ve encountered? Things that people either place too much significance on or not enough on! Just a suggestion :D Keep up the awesome articles!

      • uLy

        you spend TOO much time on the internet dude. You are a product of too much internet time and to little actually properly educating yourself.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Ferguson/1409790546 Tom Ferguson

          ^^^^^^Honestly, wtf are you even on about?^^^^

        • jetpackracecar

          fuck you uLy fuck you fuck you fuck you asshole.

          please post links toyour awesome music. can’t wait.

          • emily

            *TOO little actually properly educating yourself. who needs the educating now? :)

        • frank

          Lol. You’re wasting your time commenting on an Internet article that you clearly can gain nothing of value from due to your narrow-mindedness, yet you make ridiculous accusations of other people ‘spending too much time on the internet’. You’d be quite a good troll but judging from how much you’ve posted, this is actually you’re real opinion. Furthermore, you have presented nothing useful (links to clips perhaps?) which may actually convince anyone to pay any attention to your opinion. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

  • Chip Northcutt

    Slow down. There is a big difference between using a miced cab and going direct. The power section of an amp is small part of it. The color from the miced cab comes from a number of sources. First the speakers, most 12′s have a peak around 1k from “Cone Cry”, especially Celestions. Secondly, the 8 or 4 speakers have inductance hich smoothes the upper highs. The Cabinet material makes a huge difference in sound. The difference between pine and mdf is huge. 1/4″ plywood used as the back of a 412 with no centerpost has double the bass of stock.

    Then comes the air. Air is a compressor sonically, in the formulae for sound pressure (volume) the distance from the source squared which means distance=compression. This compression works more on the highs and less on the lows, lows travel farther in air.

    Then the mic. Microphone elements are speakers in reverse with a transfoermer inside. Mic transformers are of a high ratio meaning they have a lot of wire and a lot of inductance as well. This smooths the highs and somehow focuses the tone just like the input transformers on a Neve or API console.

    All this makes a big difference but it takes a certain will to listen. Good hearing is an acquired skill. Once developed you can use it to to remeve layers of Garbage from your tone, unmasking the beauty of the entire electric guitar system. Listen hard, in dead room. Improve, It is an endless path for the enlightened and a deadend for the oblivious.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pepe-Lastarria/560147426 Pepe Lastarria

    pretty cool, looking forward for your final conclusions!!

    :)

    go misha go!

  • Ted

    I’m actually playing a show tomoro night in Melbourne and going for the direct setup. I think it’s all personal preference. The are plenty of factors that come into play like the room, size of crowd, soundguy ect. Not only that, if you’re a poor bugger like me you have to make the best of what you can afford and using the direct setup helps with quick change overs, $$$ on freight or hire rah rah rah. At least if you have your own foldback you can keep a consistent sound for your monitors. With the axe fx’s capabilities there are so many ways you can do this and yes, I too have an endless barney over this piece of gear that has made my life so much easier on stage and in the studio. Anyway keep up the good work misha!

  • Scourge441

    According to some sound engineers/cabinet builders I’ve heard discussing speakers, guitarists shouldn’t be using 4×12′s anyway. Apparently smaller speakers are better at projecting the frequencies guitars are best heard at. So you’d be better off with a whole lot of 8-inch speakers than with a few 12-inch speakers, leaving the bigger ones for the bassist.

    Also, something to keep in mind is that cabs do color your tone. Some guitarists want this and others don’t. If you do, then you’re still better off micing your cab.

  • uLy

    I can’t stand this kids opinions. His tone sounds like the biggest piece of shit modulated sterile fucking tone out there and he’s going to continue to push his fucking agenda here?

    Axe Fx is nice for what it is but it will never replace the real things. Enough already.I’m tired of running into little kids swearing by every piece of modulating crap out there.

    • bulb

      Hey dude, sounds like you need a hug or something, and i would be happy to oblige. It also seems like my articles and opinions on here seem to cause you a lot of stress, might i suggest refraining from reading them in the near future? Might give you a few years of your life back! Just sayin…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-McCorry/524350012 Steve McCorry

      Ease up, champ! Misha is just a successful musician sharing his experience with others. If you don’t like what he has to say, don’t read it. I personally don’t see myself going direct anytime soon, but I’m very interested in this article. At least enough to give it a try.

      But hey, I would be mad at Misha too if all I had was a first act guitar and a pandora’s box. I feel your pain brother.

      • Jack

        Misha, please grab an ENGL, record a bit, then record the same bit with your axe fx. I want this guy to pick the real one.

        • uLy

          Here we go with the infamous blind test syndrome. Put me in a room and I can tell you the difference. Nothing beats the real thing, we’ve had these debates every single time new piece of modulation comes to the market.

          It’s tiresome, and I hate the people that walk around championing it. Ya like your modulated gear? Cool, enjoy it. Stop trying to press it upon others though. It seems like that crowd always seems to try it every so often.

          The guys tone is the epitome of that bad PODXT crowd. They grew up on that gear, and so every time they get new gear they try to some how emulate that feel that they got when they were jamming in their bedroom. Tight as balls tone to the point where it sounds like a car engine instead of an amp. Fuck souless, mechanical crap that burns your ears out within a few minutes

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Francisco-Boni-Neto/1502963451 Francisco Boni Neto

            this guy opnion kind of remind me of Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree. like, complaning about how kids nowadays only listen to compressed music (mp3) in their rooms or ipods. and now they can’t appreciate other sounds.

            I guess, at least to me, sterile sound can sound good. Its a matter of subjective opnion.

          • frank

            “I’m not recording, I’m not on tour and I’ve never had a song go to number one on Beatport, I’ve never been featured on Juno Download or Track it Down, I’ve never released twice, but what I do know is that I’ve been listening to electronic(a) for many years and I have every right to speak my mind against the fabricated music that is being released on a daily basis. It’s absolutely appalling ! All these people think that if you’re on the Beatport Top Ten you’re making something out of yourself, well you’re making a mockery out of electronic music. I’m a producer and I come from the underground and I’m… Quite frankly, I’m sick and tired and I’m here to go on these rants on message boards because I know I will never amount to anything and I need to make myself feel better. So when I’m not high on cocaine I will sit in front of this computer ’till the cows come home and continue ranting and raving about artists that are actually living out their dream ’cause I never wïll.”

            Replace ‘producer’ with ‘guitarist’ and ‘electronica’ with ‘rock/metal/djent/whatever’ and you’ll understand where uLy is coming from. Very sad individual.

      • uLy

        Define success for me. To me he’s still bottom of the barrel and far from qualified enough to give his opinions on gear, recording, and live sound. The guy is a bedroom player that just finally put out his first new cd (which sucks ass), and has barely toured (relevant to most other established musicians).

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Ferguson/1409790546 Tom Ferguson

          Do you like black metal by any chance?

    • jetpackracecar

      ulyneedsahug.com

      please send donations today

      or, we can just continue to react to his moronic statements.

      please post list of awesome uLy gear, need to get uLytone as if life depended on it.

      • bulb

        Haha it would be sad if it wasnt so funny, its like he enjoys torturing himself with my terrible opinions! Let’s see what happens next!

  • casey sabol

    haha what a bunch of dumbasses.

    EMBRACE TECHNOLOGY. BE OPEN MINDED. LISTEN OBJECTIVELY.

    Stop clinging to your long held beliefs for no other reason than pride and your fears of change.

  • casey sabol

    and just to clarify….

    i LOVE me a fuckin Soldano SLO-100 through a vintage marshall 4×12 cab….but i’m also VERY open to the idea that with all the technology we have today, it would NOT be hard to copy that sound digitally. it’s happened with plugins, why wouldnt it be able to happen with amps?

    the truth is, i have no experience with the AxeFx, but if it DOES end up sounding as good as a real amp to me, I will have NO PROBLEM with admitting that. if it actually is as good as misha says….and i almost always agree with misha on tone….then this is an amazing thing because it saves people the huge pain in the ass of shlepping around heavy ass amps and cabs.

  • casey sabol

    people just aren’t open minded enough toward new ideas….and it’s part of why our whole society sucks nowadays. rather than objectively making decisions based on evidence, people just pick a side and let their pride do the decision-making for them.

    i mean, that mentality is pretty much the only reason that hilariously irrational theologies such as Christianity have stuck around.

    BE OPEN TO BEING PROVEN WRONG. BEING PROVEN WRONG IS A GOOD THING.

    • TobinArasi

      Truth talk.

    • gaysey saballs

      shut up and finish your album god dammit

  • meshuggahner

    whatever you were running in Melbourne, run the opposite! that show sounded like mud soup :(

    • bulb

      Cabs in melbourne, direct might have saved us!

      • meshuggahner

        next time ;)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chuck-Wagner/506137459 Chuck Wagner

        The Mesa Triaxis has direct outs…just sayin.

        • jetpackracecar

          traxis? What an unholy piece of shit. Another brilliant statement.

          Shots? Cuervo please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alan-Sacha-Laskow/839335493 Alan Sacha Laskow

    I’ve tried the Axe-FX and poweramp extensively and got some nice tones, but nothing beats the visceral directness of a tube head and cab for my taste. I borrowed a 5150III and ended up buying it because of the skirt blowing awesomeness of the tone, dialed in about 5 seconds with some simple knobs.

    Sure it isn’t as versatile as the Axe but with a MIDI switcher + 4 cable method I can switch the Axe in as a preamp for any other various tonal options.

    The Axe is an amazing unit and I espouse its virtues all the time but an amp and cab IS what it is…it can’t really be beat if that is the sound / feel you want.

  • Al

    Wow, this blog was about gear, not how Periphery rips off Meshuggah. Get your head out of your asses.

    Misha, don’t listen to these petty fools, they don’t know shit. You’re definitely on to something about FRFR. If you’re saying that this sound is better, I can’t wait to hear it.

    4x12s are probably going to live on a little while longer

  • Coop

    This is really interesting, but is the distortion comparable to the heavyness of a tube amp? If so I really AxeFx has everything I would want out of guitar tone. I would definitely sacrifice looks for a consistent tone that is clear to everyone at a show. Additionally, having effects/fantastic distortion in one unit is fantastic, and being able to get that exact tone through headphones or DI is a plus. But most of all, I like the aspect of that it would be lighter than a tube halfstack. Would be a lot more mobile and easily transportable than an extremely heavy tube head.

    • bulb

      If anything i would say it is beyond what an amp can do. I think about all the shit i would put in an around my Engl (which is already a pretty “different”) sounding amp just trying to get it to match the sound in my head. And the Engl got me as close as i could get which is why i love it, but with the Axefx i can go even further. Perhaps this is why i love it so much. But strangely enough, it can also do incredibly authentic sounds as well. Like i have this one sorta midgainy patch which i use for the first solo in Racecar, and that just sounds like a nice driven boutique amp, and has very similar feel and response. So you get the whole range, its really all in how you set it honestly.

      • casey sanol

        i wanna hear it do some shit like an AC30, or something really Class A in general. i’ll bet it can own that shit, especially if Eleven the plugin can

      • uLy

        The sound in your head? You mean something that sounds exactly like Meshuggah? What you tried to do with the Engl was essentially make it a solid state amp, or a POD.

        I remember talking to Fedrick in early 2000 when he had a dual rec on stage and I remember him always saying that the solid state was the way to go for insanely low tunings (just like bass guitars). A little later I believe he started using the pods and line 6 amps.

        Stop passing your shit off as some type of revelation bro.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Ferguson/1409790546 Tom Ferguson

          O god, this guy again…

        • jetpackracecar

          Fedrick?

          uLyspooptone.com

          go now for all the best shit tone and recommendations on how to get tone nobody wants

          ha ha uLy licks goat nutz

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Francisco-Boni-Neto/1502963451 Francisco Boni Neto

          its a matter of subjective opnion bro. hes not converting anyone. everyone tone is limited. theres no magical tone that can suit to every kind of music everywhere.

          • Justin Sniggles

            COME ON ULY YOU PUSSY!!! POST A LINK TO YOUR SHIT NOW!!!!!!!! DO IT!! LETS HEAR IT OH MASTER OF ALL THINGS TUBE!!! THE ONLY THING INVOLVING YOU AND TUBES IS THE FUCKING TEST TUBE YOU WERE BORN IN YOU FUCKING REJECT!

          • bulb

            Its kinda sad that he doesn’t get that, i feel kinda bad for him.

  • casey sabol

    haha oops casey saBol

  • Vardanator

    I’m an impressionable young man who enjoys periphery! Misha’s ideas have been permanently programmed into my cerebral cortex, and this being the case, I plan on using the direct line method, and will tell all of my friends to do it too. Cabs schmabs. If you achieve the sound you’re going for, I fail to see the harm in challenging the conventional methods associated with live performances.

  • Legos

    You can argue convenience versus tradition forever, but in the end it all come down to what sounds and feels best to you.

  • http://www.myspace.com/handslikeglass ed

    First off congrats on the release….I can’t seem to take it out my cd player in my car. Good advice, I was in fact thinking about making the switch to direct. I have the option of running live or direct. I am a fellow Engl player (E530 preamp) running through a peavey solid state with a g major in the loop. I’ve always preferred the sound of a live amp as opposed to a direct signal, but recently the idea has grown on me. Of course it depends on the venue and the PA provided, and the abilities of the sound man too. I’ll definitely have to try it when my band goes on tour in a couple of weeks. That’s for the insight.
    Currently listening to: Racecar

  • Skanes

    Hey everybody, calm down :(.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joel-Merriman/604324796 Joel Merriman

    We actually use Line6 gear, a Roland v-kit, and even mic split vocals to our mixer. We then run it through a couple compressors and finally a headphone amp. Out the amp to our $30 JVC headphones (which sound WAY better than the Shure E3′s we bought) Instant in-ear monitors. not wireless, but managable and we don’t use any floor monitors at all.

    We used to use PA cabs for our backline this way too but they were too heavy to lug around. Just add a power amp and use an aux channel for the guitars and bass and you’ll have your FRFR backline setup ready to go.

    The extra XLR out on the Pod X3 Lives, a couple DI boxes for the drums, and 2 mic splitters for the main vox. Kick ass.

  • Jbcrazy

    I second Misha’s findings on this. I’ve owned TONS of power tube amps (Diezel Herbert, ENGL Invader, HandK Triamp, Mesa Boogie Mark V, Mesa Dual Rec, Diezel Einstein, Orange Rockerverb).

    I think the Axe-FX Tube/Cab setup trumps those setups and does the amp in a room feel just as well. I too am interested in a Full FR FR setup but finding the right powered speaker is key. That area is a whole new monster.

    The 4×12 Bogner/VHT 2/90/Axe-FX Setup I have sounds as real as anything I’ve had before if not better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Shaffer/660192410 Matt Shaffer

    I have tried several methods with my Ultra. I fought my tone for a long time with that unit and still do to a degree. When I finally jumped all in I wanted to change how I did things with my rig. I play fairly heavy music, not quite to the degree of Periphery but I certainly have some Djent elements.

    After several painful discussions and trial and error we had to figure out what our rig was going to be. I scaled from a 4×12 to a Mesa 2×12 I have a Solid State power amp in my rack to power that and I also run a line into our mixer that go to in ears. We havent played live yet with this set up but our plan is to add the board to our live set up so we can control our own in ear mixes.

    Since my other guitar player also has an Ultra this works great. We can still have the soundman mic the cab which I trust a little more than running a direct line to the house. We can run a direct line from our 2 Ultra’s and bass to our board and a monitor mix of drums and vocals from the house then control our own destiny.

    One thing I will say about the Axe is as great of a product as it is there are still things I miss about my amp. I would love to change from my solid state power amp to one of the tubes power amps that Misha mentioned. That really makes the Axe sound a lot more authentic, less digital then using solid state.

    One thing I always think of when people get all excited about gear and tubes vs digital vs whatever. 99% of the time you are up against a crappy room, crappy PA, crappy sound guy, insert your adverse element here. What you end up with is generally a live tone much different from what you envisioned and certainly different from venue to venue.

    For me the Ultra gave me the chance to use all my effects contained in one box and still direct record. All of the routing situations mentioned in this column work great its really just a matter of finding what floats your boat!!!

    Matt

  • Nope

    4x12s are definitely not a thing of the past. 90% of the top producers all around the world are still micing up amps and cabs, and it’s not going to change any time soon.

    A good number of big name artists have the Axe-FX now, but many of them are big rack gear heads with racks of effects (you know, the kind with huge egos. haha.), and only a few of them are actually using the Axe live… and even less of them who are using it live for guitar tones. Many just use it for effects only.

    The Axe-FX is awesome for low gain and clean tones… especially awesome if you’re into effects heavy / ambient music, but real amps and cabs still sound better for mid gain rock and especially ultra saturated, high gain modern metal style tones. So, it really depends what all you’re going to use it for and whether or not you feel it’s worth the money…

    Anyways, if you have to use amp sims, I can honestly say I’ve never heard the Axe-FX do a saturated, modern metal guitar tone that sounded better than the POD tones Joey Sturgis comes up with on his albums… those POD tones don’t sound like a real amp, but still sound cool and work for the style… and I think most people already know the POD can sound excellent for cleans in the right hands (at a MUCH lower cost than the Axe-FX). That isn’t to say that POD is just generally better than the Axe-FX, but the Axe-FX certainly isn’t the be-all, end-all piece of equipment it’s hyped up to be. I’d use it all day long for jazz or ambient pop/rock music, but when it comes to modern metal/death metal/metalcore/etc. I’ll take a tubescreamer, amp, and cab every time.

  • Michael Ibsen

    I really appreciate your insight into this Bulb. I have a tube amp already, but I’m really considering buying myself an axe fx