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Everyone's Replaceable

MUTINY WITHIN LOSE VOCALIST, KEYBOARDIST?

 Monday, June 20th, 2011 at 10:30am by

Chris Clancy: Kissing us no longer.

Okay so here’s a story which is kinda crazy pretty much from start to finish.

Over the weekend, reader Hetal Bhatt sent us a link to a posting on Chris Clancy’s Facebook page, entitled “I am no longer the vocalist for Mutiny Within.” I e-mailed MW bassist Andrew Jacobs for a confirmation because Clancy is still listed as a member on the band’s official Facebook page, and in the wee hours of this morning, Jacobs e-mailed me back to say that the band is “putting together a statement” and that “there is a lot going on right now.”

And now Clancy’s Facebook post has been removed, which, y’know, I don’t think is a coincidence.

So while you can’t see Clancy’s statement on FB, you can read it below — the full text of that post follows, and whether or not you consider yourself a Mutiny Within fan, it’s worth reading, because it’s a fucking harsh look at the state of the modern metal business:

“This may come as a shock to some people I guess but here we go:

“Well, where do I start?..

“Isn’t it such a shame that the music industry is no longer about music? I started playing instruments when I was 10. 16 years later, I find myself leaving a career that I strived over half of my life to accomplish. I gave up almost everything to live in a basement in another country and make music with my bandmates in search of a record deal. We did the impossible and got signed to Roadrunner Records. It was my childhood dream and I had everything I ever wanted. Or so I thought.

“My love for singing and performing soon started to diminish as time and time again we got screwed over by the industry in some way or another. I love being in a band because I love singing and i’ve just found that everything i’m doing is for the wrong reasons. There’s no passion or drive to wake up in the morning and make music with the guys, so i’m not going to do that anymore. Maybe a new venture will come my way and it will restart the fire that I once had.

“We live in an age where labels don’t just take money from music sales, but from almost every form of a bands income. This isn’t the labels fault. They front money to let the bands make their music and put it out. They’re businesses and want to make a profit. But what happens when a band is given money to record an album, puts it out, and then doesn’t sell enough records…? They are evaluated and either dropped or given a second chance with a strict budget… We were dropped. We didn’t even hit 10,000 legal album sales in the USA. Yet looking at torrent sites around the internet, you can easily find 60,000+ illegal downloads. Our music was stolen, the label didn’t make enough money, and now there will be no more music. Why am I saying this? Because this happens to so many other bands and they stay quiet about it.

“After 4 years of working almost every day with the band, the reality is i’ve earned $100 in all that time. I simply cannot afford to continue on. Visa costs, living costs…people seem to think i’m rich because i’m a musician but many of you will know the reality of the industry. I don’t know the future of Mutiny Within, I wish them the best if they decide to continue without me, but i’m moving on and I hope that I find that drive and love for music that I once had.

“I’d like to thank our fans for being awesome and so loyal to us. You’ve been there for us on the road more times than I can remember and it’s you guys that have kept me going through all the bad times because standing on that stage and hearing you sing along is the best feeling I could ever have. We’ve had plenty of haters and i’d like to thank them too for entertaining me over the past few years. I play metal because I love metal. Some people seem to rip anything apart which isn’t their favourite band, yet if I sounded like your favourite band you’d hate me for copying them.

“I’m still on good terms with the band and there’s no bad feelings, so thanks again to the fans, the band, and everybody who has supported me along the way.

“All the best,
Chris”

So that obviously blows. And it’s not like Mutiny Within are some unknown band on some little indie label. They were signed to fucking Roadrunner (and I know for a fact that are other big labels that wanted them). They were heavily promoted both via advertising and the media. They were on some big, big tours. They were basically given every opportunity a young band could hope for.

(And I know some MW haters are gonna say “Mutiny Within didn’t undersell because of illegal downloading, they undersold because they suck.” I don’t have data to compare against the stats Clancy quotes, but if we give him the benefit of the doubt, then, yeah, the band should have been doing much better.)

But wait, here’s where the story gets a little weirder. Scanning the comments below the post, I found this little exchange between Clancy and keyboardist Drew Stavola, who is apparently also out of the band:

Three words: Oy yoy yoy.

So now I guess we just sit tight and wait for the band’s statement on the issue. Stay tuned for more info…

-AR

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  • Jester

    This sucks, for a debut album these guys were really fucking solid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Random-Fret/141515165896900 Alex

      Yeah. What a bummer. Some people like to say record labels are old dinosaurs that need to evolve and accept to distribute music for free, or die. I agree with the part of them having to die. Record labels just represent a “closed-market” over which they have a monopoly, and act as parasites while not giving a damn about quality whatsoever. A free-market would have artists competing on even ground, and the quality of music would sky-rocket.

      This, however, would only work when people understand that music has intrinsic value, and that music that you like and listen to frequently, deserves to be purchased. It’s not about the plastic, the glass, the paper, or the bytes. If people think music should be free-or-else in an attempt to put pressure on labels, labels just pass the pressure onto the bands. It solves nothing.

      If the record label is a kidnapper, and the bands are the victim, not paying the ransom just kills the band. The question is, is the band worth rescuing? Is there a better way? Can we kill the kidnapper without killing the bands?

  • Brandon

    This sucks, they were a great band

  • Shawn

    ya, i was seriously psyched for another album from them…guess they’re going the way of other promisign Roadrunner debuts like Sanctity

    • Jester

      Sanctity was the shit.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Wilkens/64601390 Tim Wilkens

        1

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Cimaglia/1097033911 Ian Cimaglia

    These guys have been done since Roadrunner dropped their asses. It’s a shame, as I felt their debut was pretty solid, yet at the same time I felt something like this would happen.

  • El Wray

    This is a good example of how companies like Roadrunner are still using the old rules to manage artists and their money, when record sales just don’t support those methods anymore.

  • Jacob

    the problem is labels aren’t protecting their bands’ albums from getting leaked nor are they taking the effort to take the leaks down from sites at least for the opening week. It makes sense that they drop you from the label if you don’t make sales quotas but is it really fair when you don’t have a chance in the first place? The only label I know that actually follows up and takes the music down from torrent sites and stuff is Sumerian and they try to do it for about a month after the release which increases album sales because how else are people going to get it. Also, people need to start supporting bands by buying the record, especially for a band starting out, they need the sales int the beginning stages at least

    • DeadAsDinosaurs

      People don’t need to do anything. There is two schools of thought right now, people who agree with you and people who see that the game has changed. Sure, downloading the album illegally sucks money out of the record label’s pocket, who take it from the bands. But those bands signed those deals, they made their deal with the devil. It’s not easy to do the national band bit DIY, but that’s the best way to do it. Record labels just FRONT, not paid for, just LOAN the money for recording and advertising. Record labels don’t help with touring, newer bands still have to take care of that themselves. With the right know-how and a fraction of the capital that a record label charges, you can do the same thing for yourself. I’ve done tours, I’ve chased the “dream” of being signed, it’s over-rated. I think that the music industry would be better off if more of it’s participant’s shared this DIY attitude and STOP BLAMING EVERYTHING ON ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING! Instead of complaining about that b.s., come up with a legit solution.

      • The_I

        You hit the nail on the head, man. I read so much discourse on the internet about music piracy and whether or not it’s “good for the bands” or “right,” but these things don’t matter in the real world. In the real world, people act out of rational self-interest to make a profit. The producer (in this case, the band) tries to make a profit by charging me money for their output and I, the consumer, try to make a profit by saving my money for something else.

        Over the last few decades, what we know as the “music industry” has come into being as a middleman to make this basic supply/demand interplay easier for both parties. Recently, however, something better has come along– the internet. Now bands like Mutiny Within are just going to do what they would have to do before recording technology: Play live.

        I’m not talking about what’s right or wrong here. I’m just saying that record labels will soon be a thing of the past.

        • Jacob

          I get you guys’ arguements. All i’m saying is if someone downloads the album and they like it, it helps the bands to buy it. If the bands don’t make sales they stand to be in lots of debt to the label. It’s happened in the past to good bands. A true fan wants to support the artist they like is all I’m saying. There is no way to justify stealing music (just in general, not pointing fingers) even if it’s for self-interest. Yeah, i get that if u don’t have enough money to go buy a record it doesn’t mean you’re going to stop listening to music. But when you do get money and that band actually still deserves for you to buy their album I don’t see why not. I know one person doesn’t make a difference. I’m just saying that if we can’t contribute to the bands we love then soon we won’t be hearing anymore music from the bands we love because they won’t be able to afford to put it out.

  • Gecko

    That’s a shame. I thought their debut was something really solid, and really different from so many other metal albums, and I genuinely enjoy it. Unfortunately a handful of solid fans aren’t enough to keep a band afloat at all, and as Chris stated, music is a business, and a shitty one at that. Music (more specifically labels) hasn’t been about music for decades. It’s about image and profit. It’s why Ke$ha is promoted to no end, even though she’s single handedly one of the worst things to happen to music since Dimebag died, and bands like Goatwhore will never expand outside of their circle. That’s why so many bands I’m friends with (and the band I’m in) have been forced to treat music as a hobby and work as a career. We still get to do what we love, but it’s just a lot less serious, and still a ton of fun. Unfortunately stories like this are more prevalent than they should be…

    • Brendan

      But the good thing is that this means soon enough all the shit will be weeded out and we’ll only be left with the people that really feel they need to get their music out to the world, ie the good bands and musicians. Both of my bands are kind of at the level of hobbies as well but that doesn’t mean we’re not going to be releasing albums by ourselves. And this way we have complete creative freedom which is the most important thing to me.

      • Gecko

        I agree with that 100%. We do our albums ourselves as well, and love to have the control over everything, and I definitely wouldn’t be willing to give that up to a label.

        • Cayle

          Gecko, just an honest question: Did you buy their album or download it? Not starting any shit, just wondering how many people (even the people that really like the band) were willing to pony up a couple of bucks to buy their first album so they could afford to make a second.

          • Gecko

            Yes, I did buy a physical copy of the album. I have no problem putting up the money for a record I think is worthwhile (and quite honestly, for records that aren’t…thanks a lot Iced Earth). Again, I still believe that a good record, and good promotion can sell albums, even without a label. Besides, I’m in a local band myself, I wouldn’t want myself or my bandmates being screwed over by people who claim to like us, but not enough to spend $10 or whatever on the album, and I wouldn’t feel right doing it to anyone else.

  • Fufkin

    Sad to see this. I thought their debut was a strong album. I thought it was strange that Roadrunner began promoting them in Europe but never followed it up with live dates over here – I think that would have been their best chance.

  • Joe

    That is really sad. I enjoyed their first album a ton, I blame Roadrunner for killing this band if they do split up after all this.

  • Shawn

    if taking down links to leaks was easy, every label would do it…even if they get all the mediafire links down, torrents are still everywhere…MW did kind of shoot themselves in the foot here though when they skipped 2 or 3 big name tours in a row to write a second album instead…doubt the label was happy about that one

    • Dave

      I heard from someone close to the band that they had no choice about cancelling those tours. Something to do with their booking agent screwing them over. They were eager to get back on the road but it seems they got screwed again.

    • nonameisfinetoo

      Agreed, taking down leaks is hard. Flooding the web with links with bogus leaks, whether torrent or file sharing site, seem pretty easy.

  • Black Coffee > Black Metal

    Goodbye Mutiny Within. We hardly knew thee.

    But really, this sucks. Saw them live a couple years ago, and they were good enough to make me want to buy their debut album (Improperly labeled as “Muntiny Within” at the local FYE), which was really good. It was a heavy part of my musical rotation last summer.

    However, I can’t say I’m shocked at this news, given the context provided by Clancy. It’s kind of the way things have been headed. What’s funny though is that, for whatever reason, this morning I was thinking about how absolutely horrible Kanye West and all of the other modern pop acts really are. Then thinking about how the new Black Dahlia Murder album is sick, but how it will be lucky to sell 10K.

    What I wasn’t really thinking about is that talented bands are dying while sugar coated no talent pop stars flourish.

    Sad state of the industry indeed.

    • Savage Animal

      Seeing how Deflorate sold 12k in its first week, Ritual should sell just as much if not more given their headlining spot on Summer Slaughter. TBDM is a band which deserves the notoriety which MW lacks.

  • Mateja Vidakovic

    This is a heartbreaking blow….I thought they were one of the most exciting, fresh bands to appear in a long long time, large part of it due to Chris’s clear, crisp vocals. It’s depressing that good bands are dying out….

  • REDSKY

    Perfect example as to why labels are obsolete in every way.

    • REDSKY

      totally forgot to pimp this…www.redskymetal.com

  • Brian R.

    while i feel bad for these guys, dug their album too, this kind of stuff has been happening to bands WAY before the Internet, there are a million stories just like this one. Obviously the internet is really hurting bands like this, but to solely blame it on torrents and downloads is, sadly, not the only reason that another promising young band will bite the dust…

  • http://thatdevilmusic.net rob liz

    These guys would have been better off not signing with Roadrunner. As someone who interacts with the PR people of labels I have to say that Roadrunner is among the worst for promoting bands. Virtually no press e-mails are sent out and if they do go out it’s for news about one of their more famous bands that everyone on the world already heard the news about. As for promo albums you do have to ask for it but it’s sent through some hokey mediafire type site instead of a secure watermarked format like other labels do.
    Roadrunner is full of fail and I could totally see Mutiny Within regrouping and trying to get on with Napalm or something.

    • Steve O

      Exactly. Why the fuck would you sign to a major label like Roadrunner if your band has no chance of getting real famous real fast? This might have happened, say… 8 or 9 years ago, with a situation similar to Trivium or something, but in a modern context where this kind of music just isn’t really going to sell like hotcakes like it once did…

      They should have signed to a smaller label, even if it’s a not-so-small-but-small-compared-to-Roadrunner label.

    • Marco

      Roadrunner have indeed been known to fuck over their lesser known artists.

  • Braston

    What?! Noooo! I wad literally just listening to these guys and thinking how amazing Chris’s voice is. Definitely made my day a whole lot worse. I hope he continues to sing because he’s so great. As with the rest of MW. Wish everyone the best, but man. :/

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Hurley/1289730334 Matt Hurley

    This is really a shame, these guys were from my area and at least around here they were well liked, which is why it was surprising to find their albums old so poorly (until you realized they got torrented to hell). All these guys are top notch musicians who have ridiculous potential, imo Roadrunner held them back musically as well (their shit was too straightforward for such a progressively minded and technically skilled band). Hopefully they’ll get into something else, get on a better label or join established bands to stay in the scene.

  • Boogyman

    Well i really liked MW, but if you look at things in another way you can see that you do not need record labels if you use the internet as one, record labels are just like middle men and if you eliminate them then all you need is a tour manager cause you then use the internet as distribution and if you distribute for free you owe nobody money, and save money you make off merchandise and ticket sales to further your career and pay for studio work or even buy your own studio equipment and do stuff on your own, bands dont need to end cause of record labels.

    • REDSKY

      Precisely. Depending on how you look at it you can also have a career, family, and other nice things not really afforded to many metal musicians signed to a label.

      The tour manager/booking agent thing is key though to augment the process. You absolutely need someone who can book good/interesting shows that will produce a draw. This is still something that the band needs to be actively involved in.

    • Jeff

      Actually, as I have discussed this with him, and to defend him on this, he actually has a unique situation. The problem for the band is that he is in the UK, and they are in New England. It makes it EXTREMELY difficult to do it DIY because of the Visa costs, travel, recording sessions, etc. So for them, this is a unique situation that needs major funding to accomplish…

      • Boogyman

        So he should immigrate then, to me it seems like a waste of talent and what a talent he’s got, you think people are born with pipes like that very often and who migrate towards metal….no way!

  • Metalwolf

    It makes me laugh that this guy complains about illegal downloading (with good reason) and says it’s the reason he doesn’t want to do this anymore, and then the comments section is full of “Aw, this sucks, he’s right”. Metallica does the same, and they’re assholes. Yeah, they were already rich and didn’t need the money, but seriously, illegal is illegal.

    • jondabudz

      Illegal is illegal. Thank you Hank Hill.

  • http://www.metalluminati.com Jeff

    The reality is, that downloading exists. It is what we talk about all the time at http://www.metalluminati.com. The Record Industry, is an antiquated dinosaur. The key is to use the tools that exist and become a modern media company. The illegal download is the wrong method, the best is to utilize a distro site that gives your audience the songs for free, but also gives you market research. That way, while you are giving it to the fans for free, you are getting information from them (email address, location, and comments). This is what modern tech companies do, dropbox is free for 2GB, fileblaze is free for 2GB, software companies give you lite versions for free, and on and on. This allows you to reach a broader audience than someone who has to buy on faith, and doesn’t like. So even the person that would be pissed they bought a product they didn’t like right off the bat.. now has a chance to grow on them for free. Not only that, but when you find out where your songs are being downloaded.. you can plan tours based on this.. and go to the areas where you are being downloaded the most!! Saving you from playing those locations where 10 people show up, and going to those places where 100s show up. Also, you can sell deluxe versions, signed, to your fans that want a piece of the band! By giving it for free, as these modern media companies do, you can reach more people that will bring you more fanatics… who will buy your merch, come to the show, etc. With the technologies and advances that are out there, you CAN succeed without being fucked by the Record Industry that can’t find it’s head from it’s ass. In the tech world you adapt or die… guess what they are doing? And who are they killing?

    • REDSKY

      +1 for this guy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/rebelpyromanagement RebelPyro

      There is absolutely NO reason to give away the music for free. You can use bandcamp to allow fans to stream entire albums for FREE!! You can also use Facebook apps like Root Music to do the same thing. Fan Bridge allows you to collect emails, etc. There are more than enough options and legitimate avenues available to bands these days to get their name and music out there without having to GIVE it away. So many bands and so many ‘industry analysts’ are so far off the marker when they encourage bands to give their music away for free with the twisted logic of allowing people to ‘try before you buy’. You can still “try” it before you buy it with a free full album stream. Young bands need to quit buying into the bullshit and start paying attention to the numbers, because the numbers don’t lie. The larger majority of fans that download your album from a torrent or a blog aren’t long term fans. They’re there for one purpose, and that’s to steal music and move on to the next one. They don’t buy, they don’t go to shows and they don’t support bands in any real capacity. So if that’s your idea of “getting your name out there successfully” then more power to you I guess. Keep doing what you’re doing and let me know when you get signed and take over the industry with that winning formula.

      • Jeff

        I am not suggesting that bands give away everything for free. I am actually stating that you give a portion away for free, and consider it marketing.

        In the examples that I gave above about media companies, they have changed their models of allowing customers/fans to have a free couple of songs/album, and then a deluxe version. Example: NIN, Odd Future, and others.

        Actually there are models that show that bands have used the free/deluxe model to succeed. The reality is, this is actually an old concept, think of the Gillette Model…one of the first things they teach you in business school. There are numerous articles on the topic. Wired Magazine has some great ones, one titled “Free! Why $0.00 Is the Future of Business” is a great read: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free and this was in 2008!!! Old News! Working in e-commerce and tech, you see this all the time.

        Again, it isn’t about giving everything away for free! It is about getting something valuable for something else. As I said above, instead of having people ‘buy’ your album, torrent it, and it is out there anyway. Why not control the flow of the songs and get market research from it, that will actually allow you to save money by going to locations where you have great market research from it. This also allows you to have way more download stats, fans, ‘likes’, followers. This is what venues want to see anyway. What is your draw? Let’s see your site ‘fans’. You have 100,000 downloads, that is getting you gigs. Not only that, but you no have a fan base to email, get involved with you, see what you are doing, and so much more!

        If you think about having all these downloads recorded and tracked, you could go on kickstart.com and prefund your next recording by giving those who donate signed albums or credits in the jacket. There is so much, we guide artists all the time with all of this.

        It’s funny I saw Ralphie May recently do his stand up at the Improv, and he said “I would rather give my stand up CDs away for free, so you will come out and see me live. I want you to come back for more!” I got to speak to him after the show, and ask him if he truly believed in that. He said “Absolutely”. Talking to him, he does do some cool secret free shit.

        The other point is, sure, you can have people listen online… go through some quick clicks and instantly blow through your music without giving it a really good listen or not be impressed enough to buy. BUT…if you give it to them to listen to on there iPod, mp3 player, iTunes, car, etc…the songs will grow on them. I know I get music all the time from bands, and on the first listen, I am not all that impressed with, but then, hearing it a few times… I end up digging it.

        So the other choice becomes signing with a label, and getting fucked in the ass. They front you money to record, when there are low sales (for the record label! Because the artist only gets 10% of sales, which is used to pay back the label, and the label owns the rights too) the label drops them, and then they owe the label. So if you sell 100,000 copies of a CD, you get 10,000 to pay back to the label for recording, promotion, etc. Basically you will be in debt.

        Look, as a musician, I have bought so much music, and the rest was giving to me by the band directly for marketing, use, or because they are friends and bros. Also, when any of my bros are on tour, members, etc… they always have a place to stay, I feed them, and I bring them anything they need.

        I have just seen the trends, worked with some incredible CEOs in modern media companies, and I have seen the free/deluxe model actually work. The key is to be creative in your marketing, utilize new revenue streams, understand the market as it IS…Not what it was.

        (Jolly Ranchero. I hope the paragraphs Helped)

    • Jolly Ranchero

      dude – you really gotta learn how to type in paragraphs.

  • prettyinblack

    This makes me sad. I enjoyed MW when I saw them open for Sonata Arctica last year. Chris has a really fantastic voice and I hope he never loses his passion for music and performing.

  • Latch

    Fuck that asshole. $100 is too much for him to make in 100 years. Eat shit you fuck.

    • Kuranes

      Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

      • Latch

        Its the least i can do, seriously.

  • Fred Durst

    Now I hate this band, and find their music to embody just about everything I hate about modern metal-they were basically playing the most commercialized form of metal out there-But the band obviously worked hard. I never attended a show of theirs, but I would constantly hear about them being on tour. It’s a damn shame that they couldn’t make any money off of their work.

    Fuck da record companies, comin straight from the underground!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Colgan/26800545 Chris Colgan

    Really shitty news. Chris was a standup guy every time I talked to him, and I loved his performance all seven times that I saw the band live. He knew how to put on a great show, and his voice was a big part of what made their music totally different from every other metalcore band. Chris, you’ll be sorely missed. Best wishes.

  • jonesy

    What if they had sold 100,000 albums? They split the royalties four ways and that might have been like $12,000 grand a year for each band member, so, yeah, making a living as a musician has always been really tough and you don’t just get to do whatever you want in life and not pay bills. If you love music, do it on the weekends, just like everyone else pursues their passions in their spare time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shannon-Lang/506384712 Shannon Lang

    This is horseshit.

    I bought MW’s debut album here on the Sunshine Coast, Australia the day it came out… I absolutely LOVED the album (hell, I convinced two others go to buy it too)…

    The story sucks for Chris and the rest of the band… I can only imagine how I’d feel in that position. You put in years of hard work, sweat and tears, only to get arse-fucked by the big men in the recording industry… it’s a real fuckin shame!

    They never even made it overseas for touring either? Wtf? Pretty sure they coulda opened for more well known bands when playing here in Oz? Us Aussies pay shitloads of money to see bands… (ie, $105 to see Disturbed, $150 to see Metallica, $150-500 to see U2) so it’s not as if it’s not profitable!

    Sorry to hear about the band… looks like I’ve got an album, no more than 2 years old that have already split up… not fair really.

    I hope these lads get a break somewhere and come out on top, I really do. Their music is well made… it’d be a HUGE waste.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Lekberg/779008102 Jason Lekberg

    As a label exec who was in fact very much after this band, this is a sad commentary on the state of the industry. Chris’ figures are 100% correct, and if all of those illegal downloads had been sales, this story would be very different. No matter what you think of the business side of music or how much you think the people who run it are bad, downloading hurts music. Period.

    • Hetal

      Get the fuck outta here! If Mutiny Within had sold 60K instead of 10K, they would’ve only seen an extra $1000 more per member (there are 6 of them, right?) for the year.

      In other words, they’d still be broke as fuck.

      Meanwhile, the record company would be relishing in the other 75-90% of their sales revenue, depending on how much money they actually put into the project to recoup. Selling the aforementioned 60K units would generate $600,000 in total revenue, yet the band only would see 10% of that ($6000) due to the fuckery of label contracts.

      Downloading doesn’t hurt music; traditional record labels do.

      • http://www.last.fm/user/markandrew78 matter_realist

        “gather ’round kids and marvel at the Mathemagician as his hyperbolic rhetoric transforms 10% into 1% to buttress his argument”

        • Hetal

          My bad, I meant to put 1%, which is the case after things like promo, recording, and touring costs are deducted out of the artists’ royalty cut from sales (which, ironically enough is initially 10%).

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Lekberg/779008102 Jason Lekberg

        Thank you Matter_realist. Hetal – what you’re ALSO missing is that if the band had sold that many copies, their label would still be supporting them, and I don’t even have the time to explain to you how that exponentially helps an artists career.

  • http://www.theheaviestmatteroftheuniverse.com Jordan Munson

    My real question is what kind of money did Roadrunner front them to record that album? Is 10k records is considered a large enough failure to drop you from the label, that’s a big problem. You really don’t need a ton of money to record a really solid metal record, and bands need to stop taking huge advances when they don’t need them, digging themselves too big of a hole than they can dig out of.

    • JP

      You have no idea the costs involved in doing a proper record, especially with someone like Jason Suecof. 10k albums would barely recoup what I’m being paid to mix a record for a major label subsidiary right now. That’s only for a mix, not even including studio fees, engineers, and a producer…Then you have mastering, artwork, replication, promotion, distribution, touring, tour support, equipment. It all comes out of that advance.

      There’s a lot more to doing a record than just recording it.

  • Latcha

    Quit talking about the music biz and start talking about what a blithering cunt clancy is. Fuck him.

  • Random

    Pirates gonna pirate. If you make music worth buying, people will buy it. They didn’t.

    • JP

      Pirates will pirate, yes. Even if you make music “worth buying” people will still pirate it. Part of why I left my band after I was signed. Much better off working in a producer capacity than being on the road with a $20 per diem and racking up tour costs. It’s a vicious cycle, and what Chris described is exactly what destroys a LOT of great bands that never that good push into the forefront of modern music.

  • http://www.skullsnbones.com/profile/FrankyZ StixnStoned in OC

    Seems this kid wanted things handed to him early on. Its the way of the game man. You have to be in it for the long haul kid. You clearly don’t have what it takes & rather then work hard at your craft, you cry because you couldn’t “do it”.
    So take a hike & clear the way for those who are more hard-working & dedicated.
    Bands stay on the road for YEARS touring off an album & even though the “perks” aren’t always there, it takes time (& fortunately or unfortunately, sometimes it’s just luck but though its also who you know).

    • Chris

      I’m not after perks mate. I’ve spent over half my life living on scraps to try and get somewhere and when it gets to the point you can’t even afford a flight back to the states, your $5000 visa bill is knocking on your door, you’re fucked. I’m sick of people saying that I wanted everything early on and all this shit. I know exactly what the industry is like, I still wanted in, but being British in an American band…. Flights, accommodation, visas, insurance… not to mention that you can’t actually earn money outside of the band legally. I mean what do you do at that point? If I still had the record deal then it wouldn’t be quite as bad, but an unsigned band…. I can’t even get a visa to come over! lol. I have £8 left. That’s all I have in the world. You wanna donate 10,000 to the cause then be my guest but you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about pal

      • http://www.skullsnbones.com/profile/FrankyZ StixnStoned in OC

        nah, I do. There are many other artist with the same problem if not worse & you know what, they make it work some how. Im sure part of it is due to dedication. You wanna be a quitter, be my guest. I’m not denying RR made it more difficult.Many bands I think have greater success over seas then in the states. Another thing, if you can’t take criticism (constructive or not) then this business is not for you.
        So don’t get mad if people share their cents in response to you saying your piece. Your words, “I find myself leaving a career that I strived over half of my life to accomplish”.
        I’m not trying to convince you NOT to quit either, so…

        • Hey

          You got roasted. Admit defeat instead of acting like a know it all brat.

          I’m sure you can live off of less than nothing. I’m sure you can try your damndest, only to be screwed over more times than you can count, and still be able to… I don’t know. Find self fulfillment?

          Inpersonally support you Chris, good luck.

          • http://www.skullsnbones.com/profile/FrankyZ StixnStoned in OC

            “roasted”…? really, how’s that, kiss-ass? I’m expressing my opinion about this guy quitting & I’m sure he doesn’t need you or care that you defend him. AND he shouldn’t give 2 flying f*cks about what I gotta say.
            If you you want it bad enough, you dedicate yourself, strive, fight, persevere…
            If at first you don’t succeed, pick yourself up & try again.
            No excuses.
            Again, I don’t find myself to be a fan of Mutiny Within(who knows, maybe after this guy is gone, they might find a better vocalist – then I might become a fan). But sorry Chris, I understand your troubles but I don’t agree with your mentality of quitting.

          • Chris

            You’re right, maybe I should have stole my parents possessions when they’re on holiday and use the money to carry on… lol. I’m just kidding.

            I know what you’re saying, but I literally have no other choice at this point but to pack this in. However, it doesn’t mean i’m going to get a 9-5 and give up on music. Getting a band together in the UK makes much more financial sense. I’ve far from given up. Just this particular venture has hit a brick wall and I really don’t have any way out of it.

            You’re right tho, if you’re determined you find a way through these things. My way is to start again.

  • http://www.skullsnbones.com/profile/FrankyZ StixnStoned in OC

    … the pirating argument, I understand. It’s part of the nature of the beast though.
    I’m not of fan of these guys, I saw them live because they opened up for someone else I was there to see. Their style isn’t original like 99% of the crap out there & the vocals didn’t seem to fit the music. This punk can wail, I’ll give him that-he can sing.
    But labels are gonna do what they do & roadrunner is no longer the big name that it was back in the day. You get dropped, big deal, move on & continue to hit it hard

    THATS LIFE