OTEP SHAMAYA GETS NASTY ON INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD
Friday, August 21st, 2009 at 1:30pm by Vince Neilstein
Seems some beef’s been abrewin’ around Otep Shamaya’s politics over at The Gauntlet. Surprising, right? Here’s the short version:
- Otep blogs about healthcare reform, blasts Republicans for spreading anti-healthcare reform propaganda (i.e. “death panels”)
- Gauntlet commenter “CM” responds, accusing Otep of only “smashing the control machine” when Republicans are in office, thereby rendering her points moot.
- Otep responds to CM saying she often criticizes Obama (i.e. marriage equality, indefinite detention), attacks credibility of anonymous Internet poster.
Generally speaking, I agree with Otep. I actually find Otep Shamaya to be an incredibly charming, intelligent and thoughtful, articulate person. I can’t stand her music, but that’s besides the point — Otep’s the kind of person who, if she were my upstairs neighbor or something, we’d probably hang out a lot, you know? I also have the utmost respect for what she represents as an outspoken woman in rock and roll. However, I wish she’d stop using hyperbole to emphasize her points. There’s no need to call Republicans “colostomy bags” (for example); this will only infuriate the opposition and draw attention away from the true issues at hand. Dear Otep: if you’re reading this, please try and stay away from these kinds of thin insults. It dilutes the issues and paints you as an angry liberal when you seem to be able to transcend this stereotype using ordinary words, logic and reason. You’re above that kind of name-calling, I know it.
Oh hey, and since this is a music website, Otep’s got a new album out this week that is apparently on track to sell nearly 15,000 copies. Holy crap!
-VN
Vince, I love you man, I really do, but you and Axl are hardly the people to criticize a blogger’s use of hyperbole.
15,000? And people say nu metal is dead…
Otep is a fucking moron. Government Healthcare = fail. Just ask Canada eh?
Is it? I’d rather live here (Canada) with our system as opposed to the United States where people without insurance go into massive debt. Of course publically funded and private health care formats both have thier own pros and cons. Our system certainly has its own issues/flaws. Perhaps there is a happy medium between the two. I feel that just because someone can’t afford to pay for health insurance they should not be exempt from recieving the care they need without paying for the rest of thier lives. I would say this is a metal website so why are we having this discussion but I think it would be interesting to get touring/struggling musicians take on this as I’m sure most bands out on the road don’t have insurance. So what happens if something happens to them? Curious to get feedback on that.
Our public health care is f’n sweet when you can’t afford expensive healthcare & prescriptions for emergencies (like me), although it takes fucking forever in ER to get served. Which is a pain in the ass. Although a small price to pay unless you’re bleeding to death from a bullet wound.
I would also assume many artists would insure themselves before going on tour.
It’s not that I wouldn’t want it. The USA is in debit if you haven’t noticed we don’t need to go into more debt just because some people don’t want to pay for insurance.
Also belive it or not it’s not that hard to get a good affordable insurance here, Half my family is in poverty yet they’re still insured, their insurance may not do as much co-pay as better insurance comapanies do, but still it’s not that hard to get it.
And to the asshole “Brutalizer”. Yes I am, people from Candians, Mexicans, Centeral America, US, South America are all AMERICANS. Fuck tard it’s not just people from the USA.
I just personally think Otep should shut her fucking mouth, along with all the other dumbass musians who voice their opions on poltics.
Yes. I am Candian. That’s it. CANDIAN!! And people who say ‘fucktard’ are obviously retarded. Seriously.
You are wrong and stupid.
You are clearly American.
Agree completely (with Vince, not the above genius).
nu metal is serious business
Axl and Vince and part of a New Comunist Order, Dont Trust them
Otep is an angry, paranoid, self-absorbed individual. No credibility. She constantly contradicts herself by preaching tolerance and equality, while talking massive shit towards those she disagrees with.
this
nice.
Big Government is a problem. Not a solution. Sorry guys.
The current administration is simply going for more control, not real solutions. If we were modeling our heatlhcare system after countries that have working healthcare systems (I.E. The Netherlands NOT the EU or Canada) I’d be all for it, but our government can barely run a mail delivery service. Why on earth would we want those people in charge of healthcare? We’re trading private sector burecrats for public sector burecrats and totally ignoring real solutions in favor of political moves that appease the far left in the country but in reality it doesn’t help the people that need healthcare.
P.S. I make under 20,000 a year, am a touring musician and pay for my own fucking heatlhcare.
and one trip to the ER and you’d be broke.
No, broke is when you’re worth $0. Incuring years of debt is much more likely.
2000 dollars is years of debt? I imagine for some people it is. But, the typical insurance policy has a 2000 dollar max. deductible. Now if you were being rushed into the ER at least once a year, I could see it being a problem.
Two years ago I had a 40,000 dollar surgery on my ears and my bill was…2000 dollars. And, other than copays for medicine that was all I paid for the rest of the year.
You forgot the part where the typical person DOESN’T HAVE AN INSURANCE POLICY.
The problem with your view is it only makes sense to other psychopaths with complete lacks of empathy for their fellow man.
One trip to the er costs me (pulls out overpriced insurance card) $150 dollars, I’d hardly say thats debt for several years..
“costs me”
Your personal experience is not at issue here.
You commented on my post, champ
Complete distrust of governance is an American problem.
You could probably argue that it is instead an American symptom, in that our distrust is merely a direct result of the failings and ineptitude of our government in the past 3, 4, 5 decades.
I believe in health care reform; I’m merely skeptical in the abilities of our government to get it right. Those who purport to be concerned with the welfare of the people in truth seem far more concerned with picking sides and playing out their little battles of pride and vanity on Capitol Hill. Too often it is about winning and losing, not what’s right for the country. Concessions show weakness, and the media (which has both liberal and conservative bias, depending which channel you happened to be tuned into) will eat you alive for slipping up or giving in. Image is all-important, and results are only pertinent as far as their effect on your popularity. If you can fuck the country in the ass and keep your constituents happy and your re-election certain, why the hell not?
Honest discussion and respectful dissent are dead. Pick a side or get the fuck out of the way. Just take a look at the people commenting on metal message boards and blogs…
You’re one of the smart critics.
You were commenting on what I said..
Sadly, I do agree with you. The price of healthcare in our country is out of control, but the Government will only exacerbate the problem. I work in the healthcare industry and all of the hospitals that our run by the county or state are grossly mismanaged, underfunded, and subsequently provide the worst healthcare. I am a little suprised that so many people have such a strong faith in their government to run an efficient healthcare system when they haven’t proven to us they can run anything well.
I think socializes (gasp!) preventative care could possibly work well and could potentially help a lot of people without insurance, but that’s not on the table.
You’re exactly right. Socialized healthcare can work, but what people don’t realize is that we’re not talking about that. They’re just talking, they barely even have a plan. The best part is, the plan they do have is made up by politicians, not doctors or people who actually work in the healthcare industry.
My favorite part is watching democrats back track and bitch moan and complain about media bias…
P.S. I’m also very moderate, fiscal conservative (and an atheist) gasp, they do exist..
your just a hippie, hippie
Don’t report pointless viewpoint’s of music artists.
This country has enough problems with a government, regardless of party affiliation. The majority of Democrats and Republicans are corrupt and out of touch with citizens they’re supposed to represent.
Stick with trying to bring us news about music.
Or you could just skip this article instead of expecting the world to change to make you happy.
Thanks for showing me the wrongs in my ways of expressing dissatisfaction.
I thought this was a webpage about music, not one opening discussion about a poorly run government and its imploding entitlement programs.
Chuck?
You from Cincy or N. KY?
Originally from Cincy. Live in northern Kentucky.
I’m originally from Northern Kentucky but now live in Cincy…or Fairfield rather.
I interviewed Otep when her first album came out; she was too new to the business to lie glibly, and talked pretty openly about how her manager basically bought her a band and the Sharon Osbourne seal of approval. I’m sure she really believes what she says, but she’s not that smart and hasn’t stumbled on any new insights about politics or anything else as long as I’ve been aware of her. As far as her music’s concerned, hey, somebody out there is still attending hed (p.e.) shows, so I’m not surprised she was able to sell 15,000 records in a country of 300 million people. And re health care: I’m diabetic and would welcome free government health care. We’re not gonna get it, of course; the best we’re gonna get is some minor tweaks to the insurance industry. You want health care, move to Europe. This is America – coffee (and medicine) is for closers.
For a band whose album is called “Smash the Control Machine”, isn’t it a total contradiction to support a government takeover of healthcare. Come on. I wish musicians would stay out of politics, it only sours my opinion of them when I hear bullshit like this. Not that I’ve ever been an Otep fan anyway. Look at the Cash for Clunkers program and what an epic fail that is…..try to find a dealership who has even been reimbursed by the government. And people want the government in their healthcare? Fucking crazy!
The government is already in your healthcare.
The government is in your everything…including your ass every payday.
enslavement through taxation. That’s what the government does.
Yes, how have you managed with those shackles on yopur ankles all these years. Not to mention the whip marks, noose rubs, and genital mutilation. Oh, you meant “slavery” as a metaphor. Oh! I get it. Ha! Ha! Well, in that case, please turn over all your rights to safe streets, police protection, legal justice, street lights, safe prescription drugs, safe foods, edumacation, postal service, mass transit, television, radio, etc., etc., etc., b/c you don’t want that pesky gubmint gettin’ in your way of a slave-free lifestyle.
No, I don’t see things in quite the all or nothing way you describe it in response to my post. Obviously there are basic services that our taxes should pay for. I believe that we pay too much in taxes, you must not.
Who gives a fuck about republican/democrat. The real issue is politicians in general, a lot of Bush’s policies are still being pursued by Obama. Therefore, this bitch is a fucking retard.
Two thumbs way up.
I agree with Gerald Ford that:
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”
Not to mention, I find it hard to believe that people honestly think that the same people that run the DMV can successfully run a nation-wide health care system.
I also agree when Reagan said:
“Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other.”
Thats good. I’ve never heard that quote before. I also like the one about the scariest words in the english language being: “we’re from the government and we’re here to help.”
Yes, I am sick of musicians who think they are so intelligent and can educate us in the “right way” to run the world. Musicians wouldn’t be musicians if they were so damn smart. Stick to music.
otep?
that guy has boobs
Aren’t you clever.
Otep and Vince sitting in a tree… c – u – t – t – i – n – g [their wrists]
I’m the guy she was fighting with. You can read a full transcript of her initial blog, my response, her response to my response, and finally my response to her response at this location:
http://spinelanguage.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/otep-hates-me-now/
That was great reading. She really seems a bit unstable. She got upset way too easily. I’m not a Democrat or Repulican, but one thing I have noticed is that Democrats tend to get upset pretty easily if you question there beliefs. Republicans are typically just pussies who won’t stick up for themselves.
Thats because they have guns, and if shit pops off they’ll shoot you.
I don’t get her logic. Is she insinuating that if only these hyper-evil, all-poweful Republicans would let the honest, Democratic politicians do whatever they want then we would have a Utopian, Heaven on Earth? Yeah, that’s really raging against the machine.
I agree, her music sucks but she is quite the activist!
I have been waiting for a liberal Ann Coulter. Why are liberals expected to present a more nuanced and thoughtful informed opinion? When angry conservatives are bringing guns to town hall meetings, trying to bully people and carrying signs saying “keep the government out of my medicare” (it is administered by the government you idiots). Why can’t the liberals be raving and insane? I think they need to get pissed if they want to get anything done in a country that seems to have turned from “follow the president no matter what” to blame the guy who inherited an already burning building.
Oh, and if you think you have good private health insurance wait until your doctor says “it looks like cancer” and then find out just how good that insurance is (if it is still there). It is no joke that people are dying because they can’t come up with 100k to cover chemo under the current system, people that have insurance no less.
Bullshit, I was diagnosed with cancer, will be treated for it the rest of my life and I still have money. Try to quit running up debt and hang on to some funds to pay bills with you wouldn’t have to whine.
Responsibility for yourself. Novel concept isn’t it?
Right. Because the last 4 years haven’t been a “blame everything on Bush” situation, huh? I’m not saying I’m a Bush supporter or an Obama supporter. They’re politicians! You must realize for someone to actually want the job of POTUS they have to be insane. That might clarify what kind of people are trying to run the country.
Also, from what I’ve seen, liberals ARE ranting and raving. That’s all you ever hear is some liberal saying “that isn’t fair.” And those damned republicans do nothing but stick their head in the sand.
So it’s not cool for people to do something that’s Constitutionally guaranteed, AND legal? Open carry a firearm? You realise that the confiscation of arms was one of the major reasons the colonies went to war with England, right? Probaly not. Liberals are never really good with undoctored history or Constitutional facts.
And if you think the Republicans are the ones “trying to intimidate” people, how exactly do you explain the Democratically-funded union groups that fill the meetings before anyone else can get in, and physically assault people who don’t agree with the healthcare reform? And you somehow think a government that couldn’t keep something as fucking simple as Cash for Clunkers going for more than a month is somehow going to be able to effectively control and administrate the health care system? How about you go ask the Canadians about their socialist medical system and see how that’s working out for them.
Jesus Christ, liberals are idiots.
Well, the real reason that the colonies went to war with England was that they wanted to expand further west and England wouldn’t let them. That and taxation and the quartering of troops in peoples homes. It was militias, not guns. But if you want guns to be the answer than that can be it too. Nothing against the guns, but maybe a public protest is not the place for them…just saying. If someone showed up at a protest with a big friggin sword they would probably be told to leave, but the gun is sacred.
Democrats are physically assualting people now? Yeah, what every one side is blamed for they accuse the other side of. Personally I don’t care, but maybe Bush is to blame. Just saying that maybe he was a pretty bad president. Maybe Obama should be judged on more than 6 months. But hey, we have already decided everything and the new American civil war is just going to be two sides absolutely sure of themselves and the next Sherman is probably going to be a Baptist.
I think alot of Canadians like their health care system. Sure, some of them hate it but try to get everyone to agree on anything.
Yes, liberals are idiots too, everyone sucks. But that is no reason to bring the baby jesus into it.
There were a lot of reasons that the war started, but the confiscation of weapons was one of the final sparks into the tinderbox that incited anger among the regular people. I don’t think it was a particularly intelligent move to take an AR-15 (which, by the way, is NOT an assault rifle as the retard media wants everyone to think) to the events, but I have no problem whatsoever with people carrying pistols there. Rights never exercised soon disappear, and there’s really no reason whatsoever to not carry a pistol if you legally can.
Yes, union members are physically assaulting people at the town hall meetings. It’s not widely publicized – wow, wonder why? – but if you search around, you can find some articles about various assaults. I have yet to see a single article in any part of the media claiming protesters against the reform have assaulted anyone.
I don’t see how Bush factors into this at all. He wasn’t a great president, and he made some fuckups and did some things I don’t agree with, but when you cut it down to the facts and analyze his actions based on the situation as it was then, he’s not nearly as bad as people love to portray him as. Obama, on the other hand, has driven the country further into debt than it’s ever been before, with a widespread “redistribution” wealth program that’s had NO positive effect on the economy, and has led to the dollar being dropped as the major world-wide currency; he’s set a record for fastest approval rating drop any president has ever experienced. There’s a lot of things I could go into, but this really isn’t the place. Suffice it to say, Obama is the most anti-American and anti-Constitutional president this country has ever had (based on things he’s actually done, not political hyperbole), and one only has to look at the growing surge among non-political “normal people” to see this. Even in 2007 and 2008, when “It’s Bush’s fault” was the tagline for everything bad, the climate wasn’t as nasty as it is today.
We haven’t had many good presidents recently, and Obama is the worst of the worst so far, along with most of the people in DC….Democrats and Republicans alike. Whether America will finally wake up and remember what this country was founded as, toss the two-party system and clean DC out, and get back to the Constitution….it’ll all depend on the next 6-18 months.
That reminds me of an anecdote I heard about Khrushchev (don’t know if it’s true or not).
On October 14, 1964, after being deposed by his rivals at a Central Committee meeting, primarily for being an “international embarassment,” Nikita Khrushchev, who until only moments earlier was the First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, sat down in his office and wrote two letters.
Later, his successor, Leonid Brezhnev, upon taking office found the two letters and a note Khrushchev had attached:
“To my successor: When you find yourself in a hopeless situation which you cannot escape, open the first letter, and it will save you. Later, when you again find yourself in a hopeless situation from which you cannot escape, open the second letter.”
And soon enough, Brezhnev found himself in a situation which he couldn’t get himself out of, and in desperation he tore open the first letter. It said simply, “Blame it all on me.” This Brezhnev did, blaming Khrushchev for the latest problems, and it worked like a miracle, saving him and extending his career. However, in due time Brezhnev found himself in another disaster from which he could not extricate himself. Without despairing he eagerly searched his office and found the second letter, which he tore open desperate for its words of salvation. It read thus:
“Sit down, and write two letters.”
You do know what lemmings are known for don’t you?
I totally agree.
Although I think Otep Shamaya is (very slightly) more stable than Ann Coulter.
dear obama….
legalize weed!!! for your people!!! and some white people!!!! and like 45% ofthe population!!!!
reasons why you need a real presidential canidate as opposed to some who will pander to retards
Its absolutely sad that this band will outsell Unearth in first week sales.
Like the old quote goes, “Democrats want the government to be your mother; Republicans want it to be your father. Libertarians want it to treat you like an adult.”
Slap a patina of “abused female who finds her tough inner self to make it through life” onto the typical shit liberals have been spouting for decades, and you have Otep talking.
I’ve never heard that quote before, but it’s completely accurate. While I don’t agree with everything the Libertarian party believes, I agree with a good deal. It just seems to make the most sense. I just don’t see how the government needs to have it claw in your everyday life.
I don’t like the Libertarian party as much as I do libertarian ideals. As soon as you turn it into a party format, you calcify ideas and beliefs, and eventually, the party will stratify as much as the Republicans and Democrats have, and will be completely and utterly worthless. An embrace of ideals and ideas is much more useful than a party. Too many people vote because of the (R) or (D) after a person’s name now, rather than voting based on what that person claims to think, and has proven himself to think through his actions.
Smashing the control machine is not a term to be used with regards to a band being on victory records. How that label is run, and it’s owners rampent sexism, yet this does not bother or effect OTEP. Money speaks louder than words to some. Too bad she won’t be seeing much on that label. I mean haven’t enough bands warned about that place?
If Otep just wasn’t so dang angry! She’s like the Ann Coulter of liberals! Jeez! I’d listen to her if she didn’t pretty it up and just hate, hate, hate. Whenever EITHER side does it, I don’t listen. When one says the other is stupid, and BASES their argument on the “fact” that the other is stupid, I don’t listen. It sickens me how someone just cannot accept that other people have different opinions. It’s so hard to have a decent conversation with anyone nowadays, cause they’ve been raised in whatever left or right hate-filled vacuum. I just can’t take Otep seriously. She’s relies more on flowery descriptions and ranting than actual facts and logic. I’m not saying that cause she’s a liberal (I consider myself neither left nor right). I’m saying that cause she’s stark-raving mad, and so filled with hate.
Thank you Vince!!! I myself am a Libertarian, so I disagree with government run healthcare (or just about government run anything for that matter), but I’m SO HAPPY that you take this stance on the debate. So much of the healthcare debate has turned into name-calling and unfounded insults. Not even the politicians themselves are willing to have an intelligent debate about the subject. They’re too busy talking about all of our “code words” like “socialism” and “personal responsibility” that apparently are racist.
I’ve seen Axl be extremely demeaning to people of opposing viewpoints (ie: anyone who’s not a flaming lib), but it seems you take a more distinguished approach, and I applaud you for it.
While I agree with most of Otep’s politics, that doesn’t change the fact that she is a pseudo-intellectual, self-important, pretentious bitch.
She is a fucking genius. Her wisdom, incite of the world and politics is awe inspiring. She makes, Eisenstein, look like a babbling idiot.
I really hope that’s a joke.
I wouldn’t say she makes Einstein look like a babbling idiot. When she doesn’t cloak her shit in layers of metaphor or pop off for random reasons, she’s actually very intelligent, I think.
**insight
**awe-inspiring
**Einstein
Sorry, that just bugs me.
Rediscover At the Gates “Slaughter of the Soul”
Ross Perot…oh great Czar of wisdom…where the fuck are you in our time of need?
why dont all you idiots think of this. the united states government paint for an aig bailout during the bush administration there for the government owns it. each person paid approx. 1+ million dollars per man, women, child, there for if the gov’t “bailed” out this company it should be gov’t run, there for each man women and child SHOULD have health insurance, however it doesnt work that way so when i was shot i got stuck with all the bills and got to declare bankruptcy. My roommate fucked his hand up got to go to the er and was stuck with a 3000 bill for 7 stictchs, no ’scripts, just a cleansing and a stitch up. If this president wants to give me insurance so i can actually see a dr and not die of something stupid or go broke trying to make myself relatively healthy then i say go ahead. If it means killing off old people and the super sick with death panels then i say fuck it. that should help with all the pollution, global warming, and the burden of over population.