DOWN WITH THE SICKNESS: GOD FORBID’S DOC COYLE TAKES ON MAINSTREAM METAL

Monday, February 22nd, 2010 at 5:00pm by

When it comes to music (and other things really), I tend to play devil’s advocate. If everyone is shitting on a certain band, for some reason, I become more attracted to that band and seek them out. I don’t know what it is about my personality, but I think it stems from the same perspective that inspired me to write the antagonistic blog about rethrash. It may be a character flaw, but I’m sure it has something to do with a need to be an individual. From what I gather, this website is inhabited mainly by “true” metal heads. What I define as “true” are people whom are purists in the realm of metal and usually scoff at any band or trend that reeks of premeditated commercialism or an overt play for popularity, and who usually demand a certain level of musicianship and underground credibility. These fans usually hate every Metallica record after …And Justice For All, and for that matter always prefer any particular band’s older releases, which usually have a more raw and unrefined recording quality, as well as more abstract, less traditional song writing. For example, they will prefer Carcass’s Necrotiscim to Heartwork, or Morbid Angel’s Blessed Are The Sick to Domination. Oh yeah, and these guys gave up on In Flames and Soilwork years ago.

I have a good deal of that purism in my bones, but it always seemed short sighted and close minded. You have no idea how many arguments the Adler brothers from Lamb of God and I have gotten into over the merits of a particluar Metallica or Megadeth record. If you even bring up Disturbed or Limp Bizkit on MetalSucks, it is mocked and disregarded 100% of the time. I think metal heads often have a sheep mentality because of the fear of being viewed by their peers as less credible for liking bands that aren’t considered “true” or “real” enough. We all have guilty pleasures, but the real question is “Why should we feel guilty about something we enjoy?”

Glam Metal used to be the go to punching bag for purists, but over the years grew a soft spot in our collective heavy metal hearts because its fun, party anthem, escapist traits induce nostalgia, and are not to be taken too seriously. In the last decade or so, Nu Metal became the piñata for every metal head to beat on. I get it. There were a million shitty Nu Metal bands, and the DJ’s, the hip-hop Hot Topic fashion, and severe lack of talent in many of these bands was pretty unbearable. With that said, there are bunch of bands that came out, or at least started out, in that genre that I consider myself to be a real fan of, like Korn, Deftones, Slipknot, Linkin Park, Nothingface, Sevendust, System of a Down, and Ill Nino. And, yes, I enjoy Disturbed from time to time, and even own a Limp Bizkit record. I don’t feel guilty about it, and I don’t see why it’s weird to like this and also love Cynic, Amon Amarth, or Symphony X. At least, I wish it didn’t come off as weird.

One thing I figured out a long time ago is that you can always learn something from a musical act that is at least GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO. Meaning, you might be in a kick-ass thrash band that sounds like Exodus and shreds hard as fuck, but it doesn’t exactly mean you could write and perform Drowning Pool’s songs as well as they do, even if you think they suck. So even if you don’t like a band, you can at least respect their talent, and that they do have for their niche. I also believe that the fact that many of these mainstream heavy bands are incredibly popular and successful, whether it’s Avenged Sevenfold or Godsmack, gives them a certain credibility. I’ve debated this point for years, and I understand that it comes off as shallow. “Just because people like it, doesn’t mean it’s good.” That is a true statement, but that’s not what I’m arguing against. What I am saying is that it is an extremely difficult task to create music and have a band that connects to millions of people. All these guys who can shred their asses off and play double bass at 220 bpm will talk shit all day about a mainstream band, but couldn’t write a hit song to save their lives. If it was easy, than way more bands would be blowing up, trust me. I give a great deal of respect to bands like Tool or Muse or even Killswitch Engage, who utilize a very high level of musicianship and technicality, but frame it in a way that the average Joe can understand and enjoy it. Chris Rock said something that I thought was really profound: “If your work is so smart that only smart people get it, than it’s not that smart.” And that’s coming from a smart motherfucker!

I completely understand where the animosity comes from. Yin and yang theory. Without the mainstream, the underground would have nothing to rebel against. I used to be that angry kid who only liked the most brutal shit available. The ironic thing is that the bands we came up with, like LOG, Killswitch, Shadows Fall, All That Remains, and Trivium, which were in some ways a rebellion against the Nu Metal era, have become the new metal mainstream that a whole new generation is rebelling against – hence the rise of the technical, progressive scene and deathcore, etc. It’s the way of the world I suppose. All I’m saying is that talking shit about a band that everyone else is talking shit about isn’t cool, it’s predictable. So do like I do when Nickelback or Creed comes on the radio: be the rebel. Don’t turn the station, turn it up! I know I will catch a lot of shit for this, but be honest and let me know if I’m not alone for feeling this way.

-DC

God Forbid will be touring with Kittie, another mainstream metal band a lot of you probably hate for no real reason, starting in March. Check out God Forbid’s MySpace page for dates!

  • stan47islav

    i agree, just because its popular doesn’t mean it should be regarded as shit,and we all do it.

    • The Ghost of D. Boon

      Then again you can go too far in the other direction. Sometimes, a band just unequivocally sucks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Razza-Tu/717008242 Razza Tu

    This man speaks the truth! I know I am likely to be bombarded with hate also, but he is right. Regardless.

  • SonOF

    Lots of good stuff here. Nice one, Doc. Although I won’t be turning up Nickelback, Creed or Distrubed any time soon to be some sort of backwards rebel, a lot of what you wrote I agree with.

    I think the following statement is absolutely true, and applies to SO MANY people that post around here:

    “I think metal heads often have a sheep mentality because of the fear of being viewed by their peers as less credible for liking bands that aren’t considered “true” or “real” enough.ilty pleasures, but the real question is “Why should we feel guilty about something we enjoy?””

    I admit to falling into the same type of thinking myself at times, altough I try hard not to.

    • cxj

      this is probably one of the best editorials ive read here on the site; everything doc has said is exactly right. chuck klosterman wrote about guilty pleasures, something to the effect of ‘why should we feel guilty about something that makes us happy and constructs who we are?’ i have many records in my collection that may be frowned upon by the ‘tr00 kvlt metalheads’, but you know what? fuck it. thats what i like.
      ….and i read chuck klosterman because he is FUNNY. not because im a ‘hipster’. shit; lets practice some positivity for once?

  • TooOld

    i like the dixie chicks.

    • Sacajawea

      Sin Wagon is ok.

  • SonOF

    and Doc, did you beat Dallas up a a lot as a child? He just seems so much angrier than you.

  • Che Guitarra

    This reminds me a lot of Eyal’s last post. What is “good” versus what you like. And you’re right, just because I don’t like certain bands doesn’t mean they suck. I just don’t like them. When you consider all the horrible things we as human beings are capable of, all the bad things we wish on other people, many we don’t even really know, it seems ridiculous for anyone to be ashamed of the music they like.

  • The Overmatt

    100% truth.

    I remember watching another of my guitar teacher’s students. The kid could shred his ass off better than I’ll ever be able to, but when my teacher tried to get him to play the riff to something much poppier (I think it was Ratt) the guy just couldn’t do it. Everyone’s got what they like and the strengths that they wanna play up with their playing and/or composing.

    • DidgeryDo

      Ha that’s like the Metalocalypse episode where Dethklok tried to learn the blues. Skwisgar was only
      able to play fast no matter how hard he tried.

      • The Overmatt

        HA! I KNEW it reminded me of something! Thanks for the reference.

        • DidgeryDo

          No problem.

  • Honeynutzz

    I agree with all that has been said, that being said. I would never turn up Nickleback.

    • Trux

      ….. and still i have no problem turning up the radio if Creed is played on……

      but yeah.. no Nickelback .

  • Isaac

    I agree with you wholeheartedly, man. I’m a fan of most of those “poser” bands myself.

    Except Limp Bizkit, Creed and Nickelback. But still.

  • Brad

    Hit the nail on the head, Doc. It’s always been my approach to do my best to see what the band was trying to accomplish or what sound they were going for, optimistically look for what I find redeeming, and assess my appreciation from there, regardless of genre. Getting people to see my perspective, however, has been a frustrating venture and has led me to believe that many young people’s interest in music is superficial in nature, being more about belonging to a certain crowd rather than having a true appreciation for music.

  • Che Guitarra

    Isn’t it like “rebels” are also dictated by trends, just reverse? When trends say we can do something, it’s simply taken as “WE CAN’T DO IT! WE CAN’T BE TRENDY!” Isn’t that worse in some ways? I mean, sure, we look down on people that actively follow trends, but they also acknowledge and are aware that they adhere to certain guidelines. While “rebels” still adhere to the same guidelines, just the reverse, and think they’re doing something revolutionary. I’ve made this point before. I can go to a “trendy” place and count 4 or 5 brands of clothes, but see different colors, styles, etc. No one is dressed exactly the same. I go to a rebellious place, I see 4 guys in camo shorts, 8 girls with neon hair, and 10 people wearing “You laugh because I’m different. I laugh because you’re all the same.” It’s ridiculous, and very similar to the sheep mentality put forth here. Nice post.

    • Utmu

      I’ve actually been thinking about this recently, it’s kinda’ like the hypocrisy of Black metal being unique, and yet, most of them follow some sort of formula and all dress similar on stage. I’m not saying that black metal sucks in fact I love black metal, but it’s kinda’ pointless to be rebellious… unless you know that other people who you are rebelling from (from? to? at?) won’t know this fact :P.

      • Slaughterhouse

        I agree 100%…Isn’t going against the trend a trend in itself…thats why I say, like what you like, who gives a fuck!!!!

  • LukeD

    I was the editor of the school newspaper!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Razza-Tu/717008242 Razza Tu

      Nice man!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Donnie-Graham/100000276684042 Donnie Graham

      I used to wear corduroy pants!

      • TonyT

        Dude fucking sweet!

      • I

        I used to masturbate……..constantly!!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Donnie-Graham/100000276684042 Donnie Graham

          *raises fist in agreement*

          • The Ghost of D. Boon

            “used to”?

      • I killed a Dunky

        I stil use those lol got one stil use it with my AirWalks and MEWITHOUTYOU TSHIRT lol

    • I Hate Ziltoid (aka Nacho Cheese Doritos)

      I used to play D & D!

  • msv81

    Great post and so, so true. I bet Ziltoid and the other purist, elitist fuckwads will try and have a field day with this, offering endless reasons why their view is the right view and why all of the aforementioned bands suck and how popularity = shit, trends = shit, glam metal = shit, nu-metal = shit, metalcore = shit, essentially writing off every band in existence except for the 50 or so “super mega ultra underground trve br00tal technical awesome” bands they like.

    I admit I’ve been very quick and harsh to judge different bands, sometimes due to what I see as unwarranted popularity, while at other times because of my own personal preferences (as Eyal was talking about in his last post). You make great points, though, Doc. That said, I still despise Nickelback, Disturbed, Creed, and Limb Bizkit; I have been and will be an outspoken fan of the good nu-metal bands you mentioned; Korn (except their last couple, those were pretty damn uninspired), SOAD, Slipknot, Marilyn Manson (again, see Korn comment), Ill Nino, Nothingface, Ultraspank, the first few Godsmack albums, and probably a handful of others.

    Like what you like, ignore what you don’t. I know it’s very difficult to practice that theory, I fail at it a lot of the time, but your post has inspired me to just keep my mouth shut when I’m under the impression something “sucks”, because whether or not others feel the same way doesn’t matter.

    • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

      Yeah, I’m curious what ol’ Zilty will have to say here. I love the guy, but sometimes he seems like a caricature of the elitist metalheads.

    • Ziltoid

      Wow, if only I had read this before the late hours of the night.

      Well, it’s obvious that most mainstream bands are garbage for musical reasons, not because they just happen to be popular. Popularity is not really a coincidence–someone considers “x” band to be palatable and watered down enough to make a profit. That is how popularity works. Thus, if a band is rather popular, it is likely that there is a certain degree of compromise in their music, and that compromise is absolutely unacceptable.

      • D.C.WULF

        I don’t think that comparison can be made, look at alot of mainstream bands (linkin park, Nickelback etc) they all started somewhere aka the “local” or “underground” music scene.

        Now I’m going to go listen to my Parkway Drive, who went from playing in basements to stadium crowds 35,000 strong, using only hard work and their music whom has touched so many.

        I agree with Doc and this is why I think most metalheads are insecure neanderthals…

        • Ziltoid

          They may have started underground, but their musical compromise certainly led to their popularity.

          • DidgeryDo

            Hmmm so what’s better? Cash, women and fame or the admiration
            of Ziltoid?

            It’s better to be a crappy crowd pleaser then a awful sounding
            band ( awful right from the first listen…..not because radio
            overplayed it) that also serves as the intelectual validation of
            an internet geek who gets off on the appearance of cerebral
            fortitude to overcompensate for everything else he sucks at.

      • Pat

        Which part of the term “lowest common denominator” does Doc not understand?

        • Biff_Tannen

          + 10. you hit the nail on the head. for something to be marketed to mainstream radio/tv, it MUST appeal to the most amount of people possible. It dulls the edes that make really good bands great. The most popular stuff is the most mediocre stuff, 99% of the time.
          They (marketing, A/R departments) must be very careful that what they are trying to sell will not be to extreme in image,composition,lyrics etc. They go for the middle of the barrel, because that is where the low functioning, boring people will throw their money.

      • DidgeryDo

        Well coming from the guy who tries to out-underground everyone else it’s completely
        predictable that you would talk about how much more musical talent lies in the underground.

        I think this is true occasionally but because of undergrounds lack of exposure,
        expectations and low incidence of actual talent I find the most underdeveloped, horrible
        music often exists in the underground. The only thing protecting half these acts
        are their anonymity.

        In Ziltoid’s mind musical talent is directly derived from the absence of fans and their
        is an inverse relationship between good sounding music and the number of people that
        like it. Theoretically the perfect music in Zilt’s mind would have to be one that not only
        nobody has heard but the band members would have to unaware they are playing in
        a band. They would exist in a place outside the fabric of time where God himself could
        not see. Of course Zilt knows about them and has their first album from BEFORE
        the time when they were not cognizant of being a band. When this proto-band
        becomes self-aware of themselves and their music Ziltoid says, “Fuck these guys
        they sold out.”

        • Ziltoid

          **facepalm**

          Yes, there is obviously a direct proportion between number of fans and quality of music. 1 fan = sellout chumps.

          Idiot.

          • DidgeryDo

            You can’t see the forrest for the trees. I’m being facetious and
            I was pretty sure you’d be smart enough to get that without
            being told.

  • Butters

    Great article, Thou speakith the “True” truth.

  • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

    There’s a great deal of truth here.

    Personally, I like to think I’m a pretty open-minded guy. I’ll usually listen to just about anything once (hell, I listened to Attack Attack! this weekend, even though I did so with the express purpose of mocking it. And I listen to a lot of non-metal music, from psychobilly to punk to nerdcore rap to stoner rock to industrial. Hell, lately I’ve found myself drawn to listening to Ayria, who is some chick that makes electronic music that sounds kinda gay, yet I can’t get enough of it.

    I know I tend to be in the minority, but I don’t really care. I unabashedly love The Sword, considered by most TR00 metalheads to be hipsters and posers. I love System Of A Down. I love Metallica (even the post-AJFA stuff). And I take pride in it.

    • Sluga

      where does the first bracket end? i cant read the rest of your post without knowing!

  • Brian \m/(-_-)\m/

    Ziltoid! pay attention, you might learn something

    • SonOF

      That would be nice, but doubtful. I’m sure since Doc is in a “shitty generic band” (according to Zilty), his opinion about music is obviously worthless.

      • Ziltoid

        I actually think Doc is a pretty intellectual guy. The fact that he is in a shitty generic band does reduce my opinion of him as a musician and an artist, but he’s obviously someone who can think, form coherent sentences, and write in a rather enjoyable formal and respectable manner. How he writes and gets his point across actually makes me respect him more because he does so in a very rational and level-headed way.

    • Ziltoid

      I read this, it’s just wrong. These bands deserve the hate they get.

      • Brian \m/(-_-)\m/

        if that’s your response than you’re missing half the point. so u think the bands suck? okay, i get that, i respect your opinion, but part of what doc is saying is that just cuz u think a band sucks doesn’t mean you need to go around pushing your opinions in everyone’s face. from what I can see from many months of following this site and observing interactions between you and other readers, you seem to think there is and objective “suck” and you know it and it’s your mission to inform everyone else that what they listen to objectively sucks. now you seem like an intelligent dude and your rants are actually quite the funny read, but I’m really getting tired of hearing that everything I listen to is garbage. Keep in mind this is not because I’m slowly caving into peer pressure, I honestly couldn’t give a shit about what you think of my musical tastes. It’s the fact that you are the quintessential metal purist and there’s a certain arrogance that comes with that title, which is starting to get on my nerves. And then of course, if a person likes one “objectively shitty band,” then you discredit their entire opinion on music. The part that I told you to pay attention to was that there is no objective right or wrong in music, it’s all about what each individual likes and they’re entitled to their opinion. It’s not fair to completely discredit someone just because they like some band you disagree with. I love slipknot and genuinely enjoy their music. You seem to hate them, and even debate whether they make actual “music.” However, that doesn’t, or shouldn’t mean that I can’t have an intelligent conversation with you about behemoth or cormorant, for example. I think you need to understand that not everyone is a moron just cuz they like a band or two or twenty that you don’t like. And that is what you needed to pay attention to.

        • Biff_Tannen

          Dude, Ziltoid is not the stereotypical ‘metal purist’ that you guys try to make him out to be. If anything (not to brag…; ) I am WAY more of an elitist douche than him ! We just happen to both hate the same boring garbage pop metal that you guys get boners over. How long have you been listening to metal ? Im not saying that to put you down… what Im getting at is this: when I was young and was getting into metal, for the first few years, I liked EVERYTHING heavy etc… but, over time, you learn to weed out the crap bands, and develop quite a good radar about new bands. Maybe this hasn’t happened to you yet, but over time you become more selective. That doesn’t make you an elitist asshole, it makes you an intelligent listener that seeks out the truely good bands over the generic flavor of the month stuff that you guys are so into.
          Seriously, on a scale of 1-10 on the metal elitist scale, Ziltoid is a 6 or 7 , tops. Go to the Nuclear War Now forums and sign up if you want to see some REAL elitsts.

          • Brian \m/(-_-)\m/

            You guys clearly don’t pay attention. As I mentioned before, you’re not an metal elitist if you like what you think is good and don’t like what you think is bad IMO. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. You’re a metal elitist if you think that what you like is the objective “good” and everything else is the objective “suck,” if you’re arrogant about it, and if give everyone else shit for liking what is so “obviously” shit and not liking what is so “obviously” awesome. MUSIC IS SUBJECTIVE! THAT’S WHY THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF GENRES AND THOUSANDS OF BANDS; IT’S SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE! Not understanding or accepting that as fact makes you a metal elitist.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-John-Crispen/100000169530540 Jason John Crispen

    i don’t hate disturbed because it makes me cool. i hate them because they suck balls.

  • Kuranes

    This website has turned me on to a lot of “smart” heavy metal. The thing about really popular bands is that they’re very rarely smart. Music that requires some level of concentration to appreciate or understand is not music that’s typically going to become “mainstream”. It’s like the difference between jazz and smooth jazz – jazz purists hate smooth jazz because even though they share a lot of the same elements, smooth jazz is formulaic, watered-down and targeted at the lowest common denominator of the wider jazz audience.

    There are some popular bands that I think are smart, like Tool. I don’t listen to them by choice because I hear them everywhere I go, but I appreciate that they make good music. However, some of the bands you mentioned (Godsmack, Limp Bizkit, Creed, Linkin Park, Drowning Pool) make moronic music. And since there are so many goddamned morons around they make a good living doing it.

    In summary, Smooth Jazz : Aging ex-hippie burnouts :: Mainstream Metal : Meathead fratboy bros

    • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

      So equally, Mainstream Metal : Smart Metal :: Vanilla Ice : Gangsta Rap

      • Kuranes

        I guess I’ll have to take your word for that.

    • Alex_P

      Yeah, I agree. I actually really like the harder jazz of Coltrane and Adderly, and I vomit my soul (in a bad way) when I hear smooth jazz.

    • Biff_Tannen

      “And since there are so many goddamned morons around they make a good living doing it.”

      You summed it up perfectly. This should be the metalsucks banner.

  • kelfro

    Well said Doc, but it is really hard not to pile on some of the shit talking (Nickelback). Power in numbers. Whether we choose to or not, we all encounter over-commercialized/heavily-promoted music, such as Nickelback, on a weekly basis. Some purists are tired of hearing it and think some of that air space could be used to spread the word of lesser known bands.

    • TonyT

      Exactly. The other day I foud a Justin Beiber youtube video with 40 million+ hits and it honestly made me pretty upset to see that a 13 year old kid being whored out by a record company gets all this exposure whille there are so many struggling, credible artists out there that deserve even a tenth of the kind of success hes had even though they most likely never will.

  • wha?

    I consider bands like Godsmack, Disturbed, etc., etc. to be gateway bands to harder and darker things, and I am appreciative of that, just like I am appreciative of bands like the Crue, Ratt, and Twisted Sister for introducing me to this genre of music waaay back when and eventually getting me into more non-commercial music, etc. I recall a few years back Disturbed had Nevermore opening for them on a European tour. That, to me, was cool.

    • grammartwo

      Yes. Kiss got me started at 4. I never had a chance.

  • Gabe

    Man, I listened to My Own Prison in high school, and to this day, I wholeheartedly enjoy that album. It was undeniably heavy compared to the other stuff on the radio, and had a good sense of song writing. Likewise, it served as my gateway drug to Slipknot, then to Pantera, and so on and so forth. So now, as I’m digging on Wolves in the Throne Room, Pig Destroyer, and (gasp) Lamb of God, I will never truly hate on Creed, although I will never support oiling one’s chest and rocking the Jesus Christ pose on stage (speaking of which, Soundgarden was awesome too).

    • The Ghost of D. Boon

      In b4 someone calls this guy “hipster scum” or something

    • DidgeryDo

      HaHa. I liked MOP too. Creed was never good enough to deserve their popularity but still not bad
      enough to deserve the hate they get either.

  • Killer Kovarik

    I enjoy one of Creeds albums and will occasionally listen to a Korn song here and there

  • Me

    I don’t like the people who have to list obscure names of bands that they like to show that they are rebels, but I can UNDERSTAND it. What I have a harder time understanding are the people who like a lot of the same, and currently more mainstream, metal bands but only like the old albums (as Doc mentioned). People can’t get over As The Palaces Burn. I mean it’s good, but the production and songwriting level is not near as good as LOG’s next three albums. The same is true for God Forbid, Soilwork, In Flames, Unearth, All That Remains, Killswitch Engage, etc. Yes there might be some bumps in the road and albums that aren’t quite as good as an older one, but typically successful metal bands tend to refine their sound, build their audience, and get enough money to have a pretty epic sounding production.

    • Gabe

      Very true, dude. ATPB was a landmark because it was a shot in the arm for the genre, but I’d take Wrath over it any day of the week.

      However, I will take Jester Race and Whoracle over Reroute to Remain any day of the week as well, because, fuck the production, those those were the dominant albums.

      • Me

        Ok maybe In Flames wasn’t the best example because there’s more of a difference in sound between those albums (and maybe because I’m less familiar with In Flames than the other bands I mentioned).

    • The Ghost of D. Boon

      Oh man ATPB sounds like ass. I literally can’t listen to it. I’m sure the songs are there but I’ll never know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Kurtz/1493586117 Matthew Kurtz

    I agree with ya Doc. I think I might be the only person who frequents this site who genuinely enjoys Disturbed and 5FDP.

    That being said, I am in no way, shape, or form gonna start cranking up Nickelback or Creed anytime soon

    • gibberish

      Make that two.

      • Josh

        3 lol

    • Utmu

      I like Disturbed, in fact they used to be my fav. band, but then I tried getting into heavier stuff and I just don’t listen to them much anymore sadly :/. 5FDP on the other hand I used to kinda’ like, but now I don’t like them that much tbh, probably the pressure of purists lol.

      • sic13

        make it 4. I actually had the pleasure to attend the FFDP show with God Forbid (you guys were killing Sauget that night Doc) in support, a few weeks ago, and I have to say they put on one hell of a show. I actually enjoy listening to them.

        I think the reason people hate them so much is the fact that 90% of their fans are the 2-IQ’ers that pual baloff would refer to. I have never been to a show where there were so many tough guy assholes hardcore dancing in the pit. So i think that plays alot into why everyone hates them.

    • Aria

      5…
      Disturbed used to be my favourite band, and introduced me to metal and moved me on to heavier stuff. They’re still a darn good band in my opinion…

    • joshkid

      imo, Disturbed is a fuckin awesome band! I actually don’t know where all the uber-hate comes from. If you really dislike “The Sickness, then fine. But “Indestructible” puts LOTS of metal albums to shame.
      Eat me.

      • SukMyBoomStik

        Count me in as a Disturbed fan. Personally, I could care less whether something is considered “underground” or “real metal”. I’m 27 and I’ve been listening to metal since I was about 8 years old (the benefit of having an older brother). That doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy other forms of music. Music covers such a broad spectrum that I think you are doing yourself a disservice if you only cling to one aspect of it. As long as the music you’re listening to makes you feel something, then it shouldn’t matter what anyone else thinks. I could be listening to Suffocation one minute but I may feel like listening to N.W.A the next so I’ll put that in. If I feel like listening to Foo FIghters, Cannibal Corpse, Nirvana, Mayhem, or Snoop Dogg, then that’s what I’ll listen to. So many elitists don’t realize that trying to not be trendy is a trend itself. Lighten up.

        • DidgeryDo

          28 years old here and pretty much in total agreement.

  • Facebook User

    I agree with a large part of what you say.

    While I appreciate music that has incredible technicality, originality, and musicianship, there is a lot of “smart” music out there that is just not listenable, and a lot of “dumb” or “simple” music that just sounds so much better.

    I think music shouldn’t be listened to through any looking glass other than your own, and if you only like/dislike things out of concern for other peoples’ opinions of you, you’re probably a douche anyway.

  • losetorefuse

    Here’s what I think.

    Good “Pop” song = not easy to write.
    “Hit” song = depends on backing, promotion, distribution, press, payola, etc.

    I pretty much agree with all your other points.

    • Andy Synn

      That’s well put.

      Also the question is whether it’s a shift of the underground towards the mainstream, or a shift of the mainstream to incorporate more of the underground?

      AND, if we abandon our favourite bands because they become popular then in many ways we must take some of the blame for the fact that there is a shift in their fan-base. Obviously if a band becomes popular but still manages to retain its original underground fan-base it’s a win-win situation for everybody!

      PLUS if we allow the mainstream to TAKE our band, rather than simply acknowledge their awesomeness then we will end up being pushed back into a corner and marginalised further.

      The reactionary nature of the general metal populace (myself most definitely included) can be a weapon used against us by cynical mainstream conglomerates.

  • AZ

    Best thing I’ve read on this site to date. Great read and well said!

  • http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/ Alkahest

    With that said, there are bunch of bands that came out, or at least started out, in that genre that I consider myself to be a real fan of, like Korn, Deftones, Slipknot, Linkin Park, Nothingface, Sevendust, System of a Down, and Ill Nino

    Finally someone admits it. I enjoy some of those bands with the exception of Linkin Park, Sevendust, and Nothingface, and some of Ill Nino.

    • orbital

      Nothingface is the only one of those bands I still enjoy.

      • http://www.myspace.com/7stringslaughter CJLsky

        I enjoy all of those bands, too…and I believe there are a lot more people out there who do than would admit to it. Why all the hate? These are just good bands! While some of these groups’ later outputs haven’t been up to par, that doesn’t hide the fact that they all made great music.

  • Kevin Halsted

    I’m definiely with ‘ya Doc. I get shit for liking KsE and bands like that, but I totally agree, bands who can write a popular song AND play their instruments well deserve respect. There is more to music then how fast or how heavy you can riff. But I don’t expect this to change, ever. Oh well. Metal heads just make themselves look like tools over and over un-failingly

  • Josh

    I agree with you totally Doc. I myself have been subject to this same behavior, and lately have been trying not to critisize bands so harshly. The way I see it is that all musicians have amazing, awesome works, but everybody also has there not so good works. No one by any means is perfect, and metal and hard rock are genres that are hard to fully exhibit 100% creativity, since everyone (not even just those genres) are influenced by something. I rag on Nickelback alot with friends because of my dislike of them, but yet I have seen them in concert. I would consider myself a fan of all types of metal/hard rock, with influences ranging from nu metal such as linkin park, slipknot, disturbed (not as much as I did in high school, but still do), death metal bands such as dying fetus, cannibal corpse, LOG, to christian and non-christian metalcore, such as War of Ages, Killswitch Engage, As I lay Dying, The Devil Wears Prada (might get shit for this but dont care, I think they are awesome), to many deathcore bands like Suicide Silence, Oceano (again shit for this but dont care) and Whitechapel. I also love lots of classic metal like Sabbath Zeppelin, Metallica, Megadeth, Testament (those last couple I guess might be considered more thrash but doesnt really matter), as well as lots of 80′s or glam metal and Progressive stuff like Dream Theater. I live in a town in the midwest that is chocked full of a scene where if you don’t exhibit synth or have at least 4 breakdowns in every song, well you pretty much suck if you don’t. I hate it because I love a lot of different genres of metal, technical, death, black, progressive, and of course lots of the previous ones mentioned, but at the same time get really pumped when i hear a breakdown at hardcore or metalcore show. I have come to terms with the fact that the hardcore and metal scenes may never find solace within each other, even when combining them to form a different type of music, I just wish people could be a little more open minded (even myself sometimes) and not hate on every band that has a solo in their song, has radio play, has a bunch of breakdowns (good ones or bad ones) or whatever else the case might be. We live in a fucked up world as it is, why must music be just another way for people to have something to hate each other or argue about (and again I say this to myself, because I know I have been guilty of exactly what I preach). Great article though Doc, thanks for the insight!!!!

  • soy el niño más bonito

    dude don’t crank up nickelback or creed just to be a rebel. that would contradict everything you had said previously.

  • DidgeryDo

    I’m simply a fan of music I like. I’ve followed the epicenter of the Pitchfork music universe ( Radiohead) since about 1996, but also love a lot of the music here at Metalsucks. In addition I listen to Classical, Classic Rock, Hip-Hop and electronic pretty much on the regular.

    Doc,

    at the risk of oversimplifying the point of your post I’m going to put this out there. To me it’s all a question of what you get out of music. My theory is that both the exclusive-know-it-all-elitist types ( from Ziltoidian metal
    heads to dirty, tangled beard thrift store shoppers in Brooklyn) and the uber-conformist pop culture
    zealots are all the same in one respect:

    Primarilly what THEY derive from their music is a large component of their identity. In other words hipsters
    may actually like listening to music that accentuates the idea that they are amongst this neo-bohemian
    movement more then they are actually pleased by the act of listening itself.

    The same can certainly be said for Ziltoid too, although his lack of social skills may have barred him from
    being a part of a group like the hipsters. He took a path that is very similar to the hipster with one
    exception: the isolation his tastes foster serve to make his social awkwardness appear intentional. This
    is why he shuns anything popular.

    So yeah I think most of the behaviours in your blog result from people deriving a special identity from the
    music that takes precedence over actually enjoying the way music sounds. When these people exclude
    other types of music it has more to do with it’s compatibillity with their identity then the merits of the
    sounds themselves.

    • Ziltoid

      Wow, am I reading some garbage high school sociology paper or something? You’d be very surprised if you ever met me in person or interacted with me. I don’t look metal, aside from a few shirts. I don’t act metal. Metal is not a lifestyle, it is an escapist form of music. Combining said escapism with real life would be stupid in most cases. Your blatant assumptions based on absolutely nothing about my social life just make you sound even more uninformed and incorrect.

      • !?!

        I don’t think he likes you, dude.

      • DidgeryDo

        C’mon man your obviously intelligent enough to see it’s not a big stretch to envision
        you like I pictured based on your posts.

        Besides that you don’t have to wear spike bracelets or Pantera shirts to meet the
        criteria I created. I was talking about identity, which in my opinion, goes far beyond
        any external appearance.

        You do cultivate the persona of a metal connoisseur and I am one hundred percent
        certain if this was not the case there would be suddenly develop the abillity to like
        certain bands you hate now. I can picture you sitting by the fireside with a monacle
        twisting your handlebar mustache new issue of Revolver draped across your lap and
        pipe in your hand discussing the finer intelectual points of metal with the wall.

        I don’t know you seem a little like the guy at the dinner table who sends the waiter and
        his bottle of wine away to get you a different vintage even though there was
        nothing wrong with it in the first place. You just want to appear discerning. LOL.
        Tell me this shit is not true.

        • Ziltoid

          You do cultivate the persona of a metal connoisseur and I am one hundred percent
          certain if this was not the case there would be suddenly develop the abillity to like
          certain bands you hate now. I can picture you sitting by the fireside with a monacle
          twisting your handlebar mustache new issue of Revolver draped across your lap and
          pipe in your hand discussing the finer intelectual points of metal with the wall.

          I do consider myself to be quite the connoisseur. This has helped me develop the standards I have now, so if I wasn’t as devoted to metal, then of course Id like the shitty stuff. Luckily, I don’t. But that last part is about spot on, minus the shitty magazine. Monocles are pretty damn metal.

          • DidgeryDo

            Are you also a connoisseur of fine Monster Truck Rallys
            and WWF? Honestly people find the most absurd things
            to be pretentious about these days.

          • Biff_Tannen

            “This has helped me develop the standards I have now, so if I wasn’t as devoted to metal, then of course Id like the shitty stuff.”

            That was my exact point above. Over the years, if you are dedicated to the music, you develop better taste/standards. It’s not being an elitist. It’s knowing what is real, GOOD metal, and what is a pale immitation of it.

          • DidgeryDo

            I’ve liked it for fifteen years. Still I find a way not to be
            a pretentious douche about it.

        • Ziltoid

          I don’t know you seem a little like the guy at the dinner table who sends the waiter and
          his bottle of wine away to get you a different vintage even though there was
          nothing wrong with it in the first place. You just want to appear discerning. LOL.
          Tell me this shit is not true.

          This part is false.

          • DidgeryDo

            OK Dwight Schrute.

  • HokiePokie

    I think you give mainstream bands way too much credibility. Yes, they create much more popular music than Cynic has ever done, so what? People will listen to anything nowadays, name 20 Nickelback songs that are legitimately different than the others. You might stop at 5.

    A “smart” album that isn’t able to draw “dumb” audiences doesn’t make that “smart” band any worse. I have high doubts in my mind Cynic is planning on going mainstream pop on MTV anytime soon. Lady Gaga manages to make smart and popular music, and hey, that’s good for you. Lady Gaga is trying to put actual music in the music industry, and maybe she actually likes her music the way it is and she’s not changing things because they’ll make her popular. I hear people having tons of fun singing Bad Romance, and little do they know that Bad Romance is a very intelligently made song about sex slavery.

    The mainstream music scene shouldn’t be completely written off as horrible, but you shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that people hate certain bands just because they are mainstream. I very much enjoy my “Jennifer Paige – Crush”. I love my Lady Gaga (except for most of the songs on the first “The Fame”.)

    Some bad bands make some pretty nice albums sometimes, and some pretty nice songs. Doesn’t stop them from being a bad band because half of their good work is drowned out by their other retarded work. You shouldn’t stop listening to it because it’s mainstream and their other albums suck. That doesn’t make them “good at what they do” or anything.

    • Polska

      Agreed. There’s a lot of mainstream artists that slay for the reasons described. Especially lady gaga (and Kanye i think). But then there’s crap like disturbed. I think theres something to be said for bands like disturbed being the right band at the right time. With enough mainstream exposure you can get people to listen to all sorts of shit.

  • J-Ho

    I generally have less against these bands per se, than I do for the tandem of marketing people and Clear Channel who shove their music and only their music down our throats. I’d be more willing to listen to Nickelback on the radio if I was going to hear even something as “mainstream” as Lamb Of God or God Forbid too. But you don’t. So Nickelback ends up being the whipping boy for the deregulation of the airwaves of the mid-90s. It’s sad, but there it is.

    Case in point, I remember back at in 2002 or 2003 driving somewhere and some girl called in to my local hard rock station to request Limp Bizkit’s “Rearranged” because her asshole boyfriend had just broken up with her. I give Limp Bizkit more credit than most (great actual band, abysmally bad frontman) but I’ll concede that maybe this girl’s taste in music is a little trite. Still, whatever, it was a #1 single and you know it’s in the station’s playlist and it’s what the girl wanted to hear (it’s also gender-neutral and personally I think it’s a pretty good song). Instead the DJ told her he had a good breakup song for her and played Nickelback’s “Figured You Out” which is blatantly misogynistic and insulting to women. But hey, you’ve got to push the playlist.

    That, in a nutshell, is my problem with these bands. To their credit, I’m sure they cry all the way to the bank.

    • DidgeryDo

      Curious. How is “figured you out” mysogynistic?

      • J-Ho

        Haha, where to start? The whole thing is pretty overt:

        “And I love the way you pass the check
        And I love the good times that you wreck
        And I love your lack of self respect
        While you’re passed out on the deck
        I love my hands around your neck ”

        The whole thing recalls that scene from Spinal Tap: “What’s wrong with being sexy?”

        • DidgeryDo

          Well yeah but is he talking about women in general or a certain type of girl…

          • DidgeryDo

            Misogyny is a general hatred of all women, but he seems to be
            very specific.

          • Biff_Tannen

            Well,that’s because women are, more often than not, fucking stupid.

          • Discipleofthewatch

            “Women are, more often than not, fucking stupid?” Oh, sexist as well as an elitist douche. How surprising.

  • Discipleofthewatch

    Sometimes I think I’m not picky enough, because I like a lot of music and I enjoy most everything. I like all the Lamb of God albums, most of the Metallica albums, and all of the In Flames albums, for example, and a variety of different styles of metal and punk music and some alternative rock. Thrash metal? I love it. 80′s metal? It’s cool. Death metal? It’s cool. Power metal? It can be fun. Melodeath? I love it.

    But there are bands that I don’t like, also, so I think I’m good. I can’t stand Type O Negative, I don’t like HIM or Emmure, I don’t like the stuff I hear on the radio accidentally here at work (Nickelback!) It’s okay not to enjoy Godsmack, too, right? We don’t need to like it in order to participate in the elitist backlash.

    We don’t need to be relentless, elitist assholes about it, of course. And we don’t need to feel GUILTY about any music that we enjoy.

    • Andy Synn

      You’ve got to remember there’s only room in your brain to like 10 bands. Scientific fact. Every time you like Creed you have failed to like Enslaved.

      I’m being sarcastic, if that wasn’t obvious.

      :-)

      • Discipleofthewatch

        Damn, I can only like 10 bands?! I’m going to go stir crazy. Ok, I pick Iron Maiden, Scar Symmetry, Children of Bodom, Megadeth, Testament, Kalmah, Slayer, In Flames, Anthrax and Exodus.

        Glad I am allowed to like more than 10 in reality! I’d really miss Lazarus AD, Lamb of God, Havok, Mutiny Within, Mastodon, Metallica…..

  • DidgeryDo

    Any given day my MP3 player is probably on one of these:

    Aesop Rock
    All Shall Perish
    Animal Collective
    Arcade Fire
    Baroness
    Bat for Lashes
    Beach House
    Beastie Boys
    The Beatles
    Beck
    Beethoven
    Between the Buried and Me
    Black Sabbath
    Blind Melon
    Bob Dylan
    Bob Marly
    Bring Me the Horizon
    Bush
    Clutch
    Coldplay
    Common
    Cream
    Dave Mathews
    Death Cab for Cutie
    Defones
    Del the Funkie Homosapien
    Gojira
    Guster
    Jay-Z
    Kings of Leon
    Korn
    Lamb of God
    Led Zep
    Linkin Park
    Lupe Fiasco
    Mastodon
    Modest Mouse
    Jimi Hendrix
    Mozart
    Muse
    Nas
    Opeth
    Pearl Jam
    A Perfect Circle
    Protest the Hero
    REM
    Radiohead
    Rage Against the Machine
    Red Hot Chilli Peppers
    Revocation
    The Roots
    Rusted Root
    The Shins
    Slayer
    The Strokes
    Sublime
    SOAD
    TOOL!!!!!!

    Begin that haterade….

    • Natsquatch

      Props for Guster.

      • Poopenshaft

        haha i’m a sucker for Guster too XD

    • The Overmatt

      Del tha Funky Homosapien is good shit!

      • DidgeryDo

        Think I’ll put Both Sides of the Brain on.

      • Alex_P

        +3 dots and a bar underneath, enclosed within a circle.

        • DidgeryDo

          haha!

    • Matthew Grant Anson

      The amount of bad music you listen to outweighs the good.

      • DidgeryDo

        HaHa. Is that somehow supposed to affect my enjoyment? I love everything on this list.
        Nice smoking box avatar btw.

    • Brian \m/(-_-)\m/

      just pointing out that ur prob not gonna get any hate here for liking BTBAM, mastodon, or slayer lol

      • DidgeryDo

        You would be surprised lol.

    • The Ghost of D. Boon

      Why do we care?

      • DidgeryDo

        You tell me. You cared enough to post.

  • brandonmetal

    YES- we’re SHEEP for not wanting to listen to the same cookie cutter recordings crapped out over and over again!
    and it IS the same shit- same chord progressions, same power chords…how do you tell one from the next?
    let the masses listen to ‘smart’ music, and real metalheads will listen to whatever we want!
    and i’m not one of those ‘all nu-metal sucks’ types. the 2nd nothingface album still kicks butt. machine head’s burning red got me into their older stuff and many other bands.

    • http://thenumberoftheblog.wordpress.com/ groverXIII

      I really liked Nothingface’s Violence album. Still do.

      • J-Ho

        I was pissed when they announced they weren’t going to be releasing a new album. Those demos sounded promising, I was excited.

        • The Ghost of D. Boon

          yeah but aren’t the dudes from Nothingface is HELLYEAH now?

          in other words, they have gone on to far better things

          HELLYEAH

          (yes i am joking)

      • SonOF

        Nothingface was always interesting. Even during the time of nu-metal’s peak, they didn’t succumb completely; they were this quasi-metal band (with some hardcore influences) and were always quality. “An Audio Guide to Everyday Atrocity” was an influential record in my life and a huge gateway to more extreme stuff. It was probably in regular rotation for me for about five years.

        Other popular (commercial) heavy bands I have stuck with and will never make excuses for liking:
        Mudvayne, Slipknot, System of a Down, Machine Head, Fear Factory, KSE, Shadows Fall. LOG..

        These bands are consistently good, regardless if they are always super “heavy.” I have seen them all at least twice live (with the exception of Mudvayne who I always miss somehow), and they are all amazing live as well.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rob-Kurkjian/1238131077 Rob Kurkjian

      Agrred I hate the stuff i hate because it is exactly like everything else thats out there. thats not to say I dont like some things that are considered lame. I love Killswitch, ATR, Shadows Fall, hell even As I Lay Dying.

  • NicePicDoc

    My stupid pretentious thoughts because I always think about why I like certain music:

    1. For the past few years I have been trying to figure out why I like certain music. Why I value something like Debussy the same way I value Anaal Nathrakh or whatever. What is it about these artists that connects them? Besides the fact that I will pretty much never know for sure an answer to that, I have satisfied myself with this: the connection is me and how my aesthetic values interact with those artists aesthetic values. There are certain aspects of what some artists think is “good” that is similar enough to what I think is “good.” (I don’t really believe in “good” or “bad” music though, it’s a perspective. We, individually, need both).

    2. For whatever reasons I just wrote above, I am very picky with my musical tastes music. So I guess very few people truly capture that indescribable aesthetic perfectness that I desire. I would say I have a pretty varied tastes though. Everything from metal, rock, jazz, all forms of “classical” music, and even some medieval and Renaissance music. But I can’t claim that any of these styles completely satisfies me (no, not even metal). I guess what I am getting at is that, if I like Debussy, and I enjoy a lot of his work, then I think I would probably still like Debussy if he was born in 1980 and only composed black metal. It is the aesthetic behind the art that I like, just as much as the art that comes from it.

    So you like what you like, deal with it and move on. It is more rewarding than not liking something because of extra-musical reasons. I used to do that, and I guess in retrospect it seems like a necessary step.

    Not sure why I wrote all this…

    • The Ghost of D. Boon

      “1. For the past few years I have been trying to figure out why I like certain music. Why I value something like Debussy the same way I value Anaal Nathrakh or whatever. What is it about these artists that connects them?”

      It’s probably cos yr super-duper-white, dogg.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/M60Patton Patton

    At the end of the day, its all about personal taste and being open minded, I guess…

  • tayne hughes

    you sound a lot more intelligent than your brother. dallas likes to cuss at us, wheras you actually have good points.

  • Owen

    This guy has balls. He comes on here, speaks his mind, makes perfect sense and suddenly the record has changed.

    I can get behind that.

  • http://lordsofmetal.nl/index.php?lang=en Kavorka

    I actually like some Limp Bizkit and P.O.D. songs(always hated Linkin Park with all my life though), I’m also a REALLY big fan of Ill Nino(you guys toured with them through Europe, which was awesome). I liked Death Magnetic, yet I found Black Album to be boring and mediocre, especially in comparison with Justice or Kill Em All….
    The rest of my cd collection is surprisingly ‘Tr00′ however.

  • Frampler

    Nothing on this earth – let along a man called Doc – could persuade me to listen to Nickleback or Creed. Not because I doubt the ability of the members of said bands to play their instruments, nor because I question their ability to write hits. BUT BECAUSE THEIR MUSIC SOUNDS HORRIBLE AND LACKS ANY ORIGINALITY.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/Jugglemonkey Jugglemonkey

    Many good things in this post. I’ve never really understood the whole liking/disliking something because others do thing. Music, for me, is a very emotional thing, so when I’m pissed I’ll play Pig Destroyer, when I just want to chill out I’ll play ACDC’s Powerage. Playing something for any other reason, be it popularity or to be ‘tr00′, kinda defeats the object of playing it, personally.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rik-Powell/286400508 Rik Powell

    Surely liking Linkin Park is more mockable than liking Disturbed (and even Limp Bizkit)? It damn well should be, anyway. I love Disturbed, Linkin Park used to be okay but they’ve taken “selling out” to a whole new level. Not to mention they just plain suck now.

  • Bicro

    Some mainstream stuff is as good as the public says it is.

    Some is complete tripe.

    It goes both ways.

    • TonyT

      Yep. There are some true, genuine acts out there that got famous because they work hard and actually make…you know…GOOD music. But the main reason that I hate most mainstream music is because the creators of it are making it so that it appeals to a certain crowd for the sole purpose of gaining popularity. Creating music that comes from anywhere from the soul is not art, and THAT is why bands like Nickelback (singing about angsty teen bullshit when they are in their 30′s) are pieces of shit and deserve absolutely no respect.

    • SonOF

      Those are two very true statements.

      I wish more people around here would believe in your first statement, instead of automatically hating a band if they can actually afford to quit their day job.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Ryan/596440962 Jake Ryan

    my top 2 favorite bands might be Between the Buried & Me and Bring Me the Horizon.

    i think that KoRn and In Flames are two of the most important bands ever.

    I hate Dream Theater just as much as I hate Limp Bizkit.

    I think that when Metallica and Slayer decided they were gonna rebel against glam metal, they came up with something just as shitty.

    Let’s just like what we like. Being ‘for’ and ‘against’ stuff all the time is exausting. Did Evanescence really make your life any worse? Or did they just keep a bunch of fat 12 year old girls from cutting themselves? I’d be willing to take the latter and have to deal with the music. I think they make shitty music too, but if it’s making somebody happy I thin it has a rightful place in the world.

    • Biff_Tannen

      Metallica and Slayer did not ‘rebel’ against hair metal. Both bands were around LONG before hairmetal even existed, let alone got popular.

      EPIC FAIL, guy.

  • Chainsword

    OK, you’ve got a good point. But I’m just saying, Herpes is ‘catchy’ and ‘popular’…

    • Chainsword

      Also, if it weren’t for Godsmack, LB, and Korn, I would not have Snowballed my way into heavier music. It pulled my generation in, and I’m very glad I’m here.

      • Matthew Grant Anson

        Same, twas System of a Down and Korn for me.

  • Sammy

    Move over Jon Stewart. There may be a new “I’m willing to turn gay for ______” candidate.

    No, morons, not in the literal sense. But Doc’s reasoned, articulate and intelligent articles continue to impress me. I agree with every single word of this piece, but even when I disagree, I respect the author.

    • DidgeryDo

      Why would we be morons for taking that literally? You act like there are no gay people posting
      on the internet whatsoever.

      • TonyT

        There aren’t. and no women either.

        • DidgeryDo

          Damn the internet is a total sausage fest.

          • TonyT

            just like the last supper

          • DidgeryDo

            LMAO

        • Discipleofthewatch

          Hello!

      • Sammy

        D-Do, have you not seen the moronic comments posted here? And take your sense of humor pills, would ya?

        • DidgeryDo

          Sure but I’ve seen inteligent ones too. Maybe your joke wasn’t as funny as
          you thought.

          • Sammy

            Joke? I said I was making a joke? I was pre-emptively calling out morons. Since you’re not one, don’t take offense. Of course, true morons don’t know they’re morons, so I suppose it’s pointless to call them out, eh? And you’re correct, there are plenty of intelligent comments made on this site, but the ratio of intelligent to truly stupid comments is about 160 to 1. There are probably about 20 total regular commenters (made up a word there) on this site who are worth reading. The rest is made up of ALL CAPS WRITERS, +1 leavers and FUCK this FUCK that FUCK you shit-for-brains.

          • DidgeryDo

            lol. I want to point out the sense of humor pills comment does
            imply a joke but I agree with everything here. Well said haha.

  • AP

    Excellent post.

  • http://www.myspace.com/thestarsthrewdowntheirspears Tim

    Doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing is conforming the same way doing the same thing is. If you genuinely like something, then be honest about it. If you genuinely dislike something, be honest about it. Don’t let others influence your opinion and taste.

  • Lard

    I like the metallica releases after justice, I mean come on how many of you “tr00″ metal fans can say that they haven’t by accident banged their head to enter sandman or sad but true when nobody was looking at you.Heartwork is a great album “This mortal coil” is what god me into Carcass in the first place, my point is if you like the song beacause it makes you feel good[in any way,arson included] don’t be a sheep and say “ooh they sold out i don’t like that album” and then go home and listen to the said album in secrecy thats an even bigger insult to the metal community than ooh i don’t know Load/Reload and it makes you everything you say you hate

    • donkeyfest

      how many of you “tr00″ metal fans can say that they haven’t by accident banged their head to enter sandman or sad but true when nobody was looking at you.

      Me.

      • SonOF

        Liar. Sad But True is a definite head banger (I have actually learned to hate Enter Sandman, perhaps the most overplayed song in “metal”..hell, baseball players come out to it). You probably also like Of Wolf and Man, Don’t Tread on Me, Through the Never, and My Friend of Misery at least a little. Admit it. When you don’t consider the record “metal” or insist on comparing it to Metallica’s previous classics, you realize that the Black album is a pretty decent piece of hard rock.

        • Geekbeater

          I fucking love the Black Album. I grew up on it and do not know any better. My friend of Misery is a great song. THat album has sold over 15 million copies. Metallica now live in mansions and do what they want when they want. What is your favorite band doing? Oh yea delivering pizzas on saturday night.

          • Biff_Tannen

            Not Iron Maiden. They own fucking airplanes and mansions all over, but the NEVER sold out or lost their integrity to get radio/Mtv play.

  • Aaron

    Not going to “respect” BS metal ever. Ever. Even if it’s well written crap-metal. Who cares? You can put a tie on a turd, but it’s still a turd.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Ryan/596440962 Jake Ryan

      that wasnt the point of the blog. if you think its crap metal than you dont like it and you shouldnt listen to it. all he’s saying is not to write off a band just like everyone else just cuz you think you’re supposed to hate that band. if you like five finger death punch than you should listen to five finger death punch and not let the fact that everyone else hates them stand in the way of you enjoying them. and no im not implying you like five finger death punch, its just an example…

    • Erek

      How’s that tie fit, Aaron?

      ;)

      • Natsquatch

        Ahahahaha that was great.

      • DidgeryDo

        LOLOLOLOL.

        Nice :)

  • Dillon

    Backed 100%. It’s funny how you go back to 2002-03, when nu-metal was on its last leg and people were praising bands like Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Lamb of God, etc., and then only like 2 years later, they’re the subject to punching bags by those that only like “true metal” and “metalcore is gay”. Whoop-de-doo, no one cares.

    There are good bands in genres that are constantly mocked by people on the Internet. Take the time to actually listen to them before you say shit.

  • Hunter S.

    I agreed with you 100 percent of the way Doc, until you told me to turn the Nickelback and Creed up. There are popular bands out there that I believe still make good music that is true to there hearts, that haven’t sold out. But I’ve given up trying to convince anyone else of that. It’s a lost cause that can’t be ever won completely. Way too many pigheaded immature little fuck heads that would rather argue have an actual conversation. I’d love nothing more then to see metal heads to stop fighting over stupid shit and respect each others personal opinion or taste, but as long as there is the anonymity of the internet and closed minded spineless assholes, it would be my guess that it’s not gonna happen to soon.

  • Carbonthief

    I agree with this article in theory. In practice, I don’t hate nickelback because it’s trendy to hate nickelback. I hate nickelback because I fucking hate their music.

    • Andy Synn

      Well that’s too bad…

      • Carbonthief

        I guess so.

        I like some radio rock though. I am a huge breaking benjamin fan.

        • Natsquatch

          Breaking Benjamin you say? Now THAT’S too bad, haha :)

          Shinedown FTW.

          • Carbonthief

            Not a huge fan, but I love the album with 45 and burning bright. I forget the title.

            Also a huge yellowcard fan. I have almost all their lyrics memorized.

  • PatrickSTL

    I never feel quilty for liking anything I do. I don’t understand how anybody cares what anybody thinks. I love Ill Nino and also Gojira. I can listen to Paramore’s ‘Brand New Eyes’ right after I listen to Killswitch Engage’s ‘Alive Or Just Breathing’ or All Shall Perish’s ‘The Price Of Existence’.

    I like a lot of stuff. The more the merrier. Some of my favorite bands are not metal, and some of my least favorite bands are metal.

    Who cares what anyone else thinks? Especially at 22.
    Only kids hate whole genres of music, or at the very least, stubborn close minded adults.

  • zen dudeist

    We hate Kittie for no real reason? I can think of a bunch

    • -Jesus-

      so you see it too? kittie is and will always be a gimmick.

      • Natsquatch

        Agreed. In my opinion, everything about Kittie blows dogs for quarters.

        • DidgeryDo

          I don’t hate Kittie. I never listen to them either though and have no desire to.
          I’m mostly indifferent to music I don’t like. Unless it is really really REALLY
          objectionable.

  • http://www.myspace.com/thedestro Nick

    I agree, and in all reality..it is just music. If you don’t like it, don’t listen to it- but respect those that do if it makes them happy.
    I remember on tour a number of times when we were at the bar drinking i couldn’t pretend I didn’t know the lyrics to Brooks and Dunn or Garth Brooks… haha.. Who cares… After that I might listen to Brutal Truth but what does it matter anyway??

  • DJ

    Amen. I can’t stand metal purists. I love me some good technical metal, but I do appreciate the mainstream side of things. It is almost hypocritical to be judgmental of mainstream metal. How did all of you cocksuckers get into metal? I know exactly how, by listening to Korn, SoaD, and Linkin Park. In the online world, it’s just a pissing content who can claim to be a fan of the most obscure and heaviest band.

    SoaD’s last albums might have not been the most popular among the purists (some don’t even consider them metal), but I am not ashamed to say I enjoyed them just as much as their previous releases. It’s refreshing to read this post, as virtually all of the metal online world considers anything remotely mainstream to be automatically considered shitty.

    • Biff_Tannen

      “How did all of you cocksuckers get into metal? I know exactly how, by listening to Korn, SoaD, and Linkin Park” BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!! Nice try.

      “SoaD’s last albums might have not been the most popular among the purists (some don’t even consider them metal),”

      NONE of their albums were metal. That is pop music, plain and simple.

      • DidgeryDo

        See that’s funny. I live in this strange world with green grass and blue skys where
        the content of the music detirmines it’s genre, not the number of people who like it.
        What color is the sky in your world?

  • Mike2

    I’ve been on the “Hate on St. Anger bandwagon” for a while, until I realized the only thing keeping me from liking that album is that stupid snare sound. The riffs are great, the writing is good, the production is not bad, but the drums suck. If anyone ever produces a remixed St. Anger with a normal snare sound, I’d buy it.

    • -Jesus-

      not me, i hated the riffs more than the drums actually. for me, it was the song writing that made me not like it, not the production on it. and fuck bandwagons, retards bash on synth rock paradise lost and I happen to love that era of PL.

      • Kuranes

        When I got St Anger there was a DVD of the band performing all the songs live in their rehearsal space (I don’t know if it still comes that way). The live versions sounded better than the CD – Lars didn’t sound like he was auditioning for a calypso band.

        And I agree with the synth rock phase of Paradise Lost – One Second is a great album.

        • Sickboy666

          I think St. Anger is fucking great. Just can’t stand the “kill! kill! kill!” at the end of All Within My Hands (I guess). That sounds beyond retarded.

    • Biff_Tannen

      The riffs are great ???? WHAT ? Do you have a secret copy of the album that we haven’t heard ?

      Listen to the riffs on “Creeping Death” (I know , I know….you’ve never heard old metallica) and tell me that ANY riff on St. Anger can even come close to a single riff from that song.

  • -Jesus-

    I hate most “mainstream” bands because I hate the music, it doesn’t sound good imo, it doesn’t do anything for me. NOT because it’s “cool” to hate it. making generalizations about people who don’t like most mainstream bands shows you’re just butthurt because someone said something mean about your METALCORE band. and yes there are idiots who hate bands just because its cool but most of us actually really do like underground stuff better, we’re not closet god forbid fans in denial or some shit. over all I do agree, it is retarded to hate bands because it’s cool why liking other bands because it will up there cred but just thought I’d bring up my thoughts on the whole “everyone who hates on trivium just does it because they wanna be cool” myth that idiots seem to believe. it’s alot deeper than “haters are just hatin to hate”, it comes down personal taste and there are people like me who just prefer underground shit more. that being said, some people need to stop being assholes to people who like more mainstream shit. peace, love, dope. -jesus-

  • http://thatdevilmusic.blogspot.com Rob Liz

    One factor that is not being considered is your environment and peer pressure. If you have a bunch of friends that only listen to black and death then there is a good chance you’re going to think power and thrash suck for example.
    If you have a bunch of friends and half of them listen to and enjoy Creed and Nickelback then you’re more likely to go check those albums out along with whatever the other half is listening too.

    Just be like me and like a little bit from all genres. You’ll be well rounded and it puts hair on your chest.

  • Merolhead

    Funny that now all MS readers claim to be open-minded metalheads…

    • http://farbeyonddriven87.tumblr.com Voltron Futura

      i noticed the same thing

    • Natsquatch

      Yepp. The Disturbed and closet nu-metal fans really came out of the woodwork on this one, claiming “not to give a fuck” what anyone thinks, now that Metal Sucks tells them that it’s ok. I enjoy Doc and Eyal’s posts as much as the next guy, but the amount of e-felating that goes on here is sickening.

  • Utmu

    Wow. Holy-Freakin-Crap. This is awesome, never seen so much positivity on this site.

    I’ve been a sheep since I started coming on here, trying to be “more metal”, TBH, I’ve been trying too hard lol. I’ll admit it, I’m a fan of some of the more popular stuff like KoRn, Linkin Park, Disturbed, SOAD, and Slipknot, as well as some Deftones and a couple songs by Evanescence. I’ve been holding off from buying a Whitechapel shirt and JFAC shirt simply cuz I’m afraid it’ll hurt my credibility… I think I might buy one of those guys’ shirts now. Some of the popular stuff is good, Disturbed used to be my favorite band, and I’m not gonna’ lie, I went through a radio rock phase before I became a “tr00″ metalhead, and I thought Nickelback was the shit. That isn’t to say that I don’t like more obscure bands like Cannibal Corpse, Skeletonwitch, Rotting Christ, and Opeth… Hell, those last two are two of my three most favorite bands, but this has allowed me to turn a new leaf. I don’t listen to Disturbed or Linkin Park and Slipknot as much anymore, but I still like them, and as long as they keep doing what they like, more power to them. Thanks Doc.

    • Utmu

      Also, to Disturbed fans, you guys know that they’re re-releasing The Sickness cuz of their ten year anniversary? New artwork and extra tracks FTW.

    • donkeyfest

      This is awesome, never seen so much positivity on this site.

      Sounds like you’ve simply become a sheep of a different sort…

      • Utmu

        I can understand why you’re saying that. But TBH it’s not a big deal to me anymore.

      • DidgeryDo

        It’s OK to agree. Let’s not be contrarian just for the sake of it.

    • Ryan B.

      Cannibal Corpse, Skeletonwitch, Rotting Christ, and Opeth are obscure?

      • Utmu

        From a mainstream point of view they are, not in a general metal point of view.

        • DidgeryDo

          Utmu is right. If you asked fifty people on the street if they knew of any of those
          groups there is a strong chance all fifty have never heard of it. This is what
          we call obscure.

  • Erek

    This is just the tip of the iceberg.

    How about the purists who hate a band because it sounds too close to another band? I hear a lot of crap about The Sword–enough that I finally listened to their music. I really like them. What’s not to like?

    Did Kix ever get shit for sounding exactly like AC/DC? I think I was two when they came out. I don’t recall people hating Testament for being Metallica clones early on.

    People just need to learn to shut the fuck up and enjoy (or don’t enjoy) the music.

  • -Jesus-

    another thing I noticed is morons bitching about purists talking shit about bands, then they turn around and say “black metal is shit”, which makes them hypocrites. alot of these “open minded metalheads” are no different from “purists”, theyre just more asshurt. thats the only difference. both sides need to STFU, -jesus-

    • DidgeryDo

      I never claimed to be open-minded. I’m opinionated as fuck at this stage in my life in case you didn’t
      notice. I just said my tastes are eclectic. That does not mean I like everything. Black Metal is
      awful. Sorry it just is.

  • Bianca

    I think everyone goes through that “radio rock” phase… you don’t start off listening to black metal from day one.

    • Kuranes

      Norwegian babies love black metal. Seriously, look it up.

      • jordaniac89

        Also, they are all born with long, flowing blond lockes of hair.

  • meat mincing machine

    lol, you ARE mainstream metal

    • TonyT

      ya dude, why dont you ask your local hard rock radio station to play some gf and see what happens.

      • meat mincing machine

        they’d probably tell me to take my sissy girl music, go back to france and touch some dinks

      • -Jesus-

        theyve played god forbid on my radio station before. and even if they didn’t, it’s still mainstream shit I don’t listen to. *shrugs*

    • DidgeryDo

      Anyone who thinks GF is mainstream is just trying to out-underground everyone else lol.

      • Biff_Tannen

        Bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahh ! GF is most definitely a mainstream band.

        • DidgeryDo

          Biff, Biff, Biff….mainstream is considered a prevailing current of thought. GF
          is soooooo not mainstream. How can you call something that gets zero
          radioplay and that pretty much only 1 in 1000 people have heard of mainstream?

          Your just as bad as Dallas. He’s also deluded into thinking GF had some kind of
          cultural impact. Besides the internet, I knew literally one kid who heard of them
          back when they released Constitution of Treason.

  • Anthony

    Korn’s been my favourite band for 11 years. I also like God Forbid and Gojira.

    What do I win?

  • so7invictus

    - i hate apples
    - i like oranges, :P

    agreed with everything u said, doc

  • Jesus

    “If your work is so smart that only smart people get it, than it’s not that smart.”

    Maybe the smart people just don’t give a fuck.

    • -Jesus-

      sup other jesus

      • Peter Griffin

        There’s another Jesus? Oh no….

    • HokiePokie

      Amen.

      Lady Gaga gives a fuck probably, and it gets her places writing smart and appealing music. Some people don’t give a fuck because they’re not Lady Gaga, and they don’t care to be Lady Gaga. Why the hell are we trying to think less of people because they DON’T CARE to be mainstream?

  • Colin

    Im all for it but creed and nickleback is taking it a bit far…

  • Rachel

    If one has to feel obligated to listen to certain music in an effort to be Tr00, then one is a load of shite. My Ipod was on shuffle today, and I got an exciting mix of Wintersun, Taylor Swift, and Streelight Manifesto. I don’t need any sort of credibility from anyone on what I listen to. Being a metal elitist is just as bad as only listening to mainstream music, and you must have some kind of self-esteem issue to keep desiring metal credibility.

  • Keviathan

    Very well said Doc. I must say I absolutely agree, I wonder what the next generation that rebels against all the dethcore/tech deth bands will bring to the table?

  • DustintheWind

    I pretty much agree with Doc and the general concensus…
    One thing i find funny though.. When everyone considers bands like As I Lay Dying, newer In Flames, etc.. like pussy metal or not that heavy.. Go play that for your mom or neighbor or any other regular non metallite and explain to them that those bands “aren’t heavy”

  • BetterThanEzra

    I haven’t read all of the comments above, so I don’t know if this has been said yet, but JESUS CHRIST Doc, I get your point, but there is a line to be drawn, and Nicklesuck is on the other side of that line…

  • Gideon McAdams

    Why should we feel guilty about something we enjoy? We don’t you ask the world’s three major religions that same fucking question. goddammit, i hate religion.

    *nothing to do with music whatsoever.

  • Alex_P

    I made a few points above, but I’ve still got shit that you all totally care about, and I’m going to SO share it with all of you.

    Essentially, I think you’re trying too hard to be a non-conformist amongst non-conformists, Doc. It’s ok to like music that I find as pleasant as meat hook sodomy (not the song), but it’s no point of pride either. We aren’t sheep because we all similarly despise the bullshit Clear Channel tells us is metal. We just all have a modicum of taste: we probably would not have become interested in metal otherwise. Speaking from personal experience, I tend to seek out the obscure because I want my music to challenge my notions of what is and what isn’t innovative, and this doesn’t pertain only to metal. I was pleasantly smacked upside my bitch head by a Venetian Snares track my friend showed me.
    I openly like System of a Down, but hate the rest of the mainstream bands you mentioned. System of a Down aren’t a guilty pleasure for me, and neither is new In Flames. It’s music I enjoy, regardless of sales, while I abhor the rest of nu-metal because it fails as music. Sure, they can sell, but only because the radio-listening population is bludgeoned daily.
    Thirdly, I think a great deal of the 200-bpm blastbeaters and shredders do have pop sensibilities. I think a clear example is the late Chuck Schuldiner. I have to fight the urge to growl along to songs like Destiny, Overactive Imagination, Story to Tell, Crystal Mountain, Living Monstrosity and Lack of Comprehension when I hear them. Chuck crafted tons of hooks. He just didn’t sell out.
    Cheers, man. Hope you find this to be a reasonable response.

    • SourDeez

      ^ Great point about Chuck Schuldiner. No metal face would argue against the credibility of Death. He was a legendary musician, and not in the Dimebag Darrell “maybe could have been legendary but was prematurely bestowed the honor due to an untimely death” way. Even before he died, he left an imprint on metal history that no one would argue with. From my own experience, “Chuck Schuldiner was legit” is one of the few statements you can make to a group of metal fans and have them all nod their heads in agreement. But he absolutely wrote tons of hooks. His guitar playing became progressively more melodic with each album, and not a soul complained about that. Why? Because the melodies he wrote were fucking awesome. They weren’t packaged for anyone. They were honest. He didn’t sit there trying to sound like anything, he just played the fucking guitar, and the end product always showed that he had a great melodic songwriting sensibility yet plenty of honesty and raw power.

      • Alex_P

        Well, I have seen people complain. You have a whole group of internet trolls who spread the lie that he was a gay Christian who died of AIDS, instead of a straight Jew who died of cancer. Because, you know, his sexuality totally pertained to his music. He also got a lot of hate from many death metal purists, especially with albums like Symbolic.

        • Alex_P

          However, those people aren’t souls. They don’t have any.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Devon-Czekaj/550092101 Devon Czekaj

    When I first got into extreme metal I was into that “if it’s commercial it’s crap” mindset. Now I can appreciate a good catchy pop metal song like Rob Zombie or something and not care that its not the most complex or brutal sounding thing ever.

  • Chris

    Granted, everything else they have released has been near-complete shit, but Disturbed’s “Believe” album is fucking amazing. Just listen to it all the way through. It’s a well-written, well-performed, and well-produced hard rock album that deserves more respect than the group’s releases as an aggregate necessarily do.

  • Fozzy Rorschach

    Preach on, Doc.

    It’s been shown in several studies that musical omnivorism is indicative of higher intelligence and/or advanced education.

    Like what you like and leave everyone else to their own devices. Life is too short.

  • zhitnik

    First let me say, great article Doc. Based on the responses from your articles, you do a good job playin devil’s advocate and stirrin up some shit in here with all these non-conformist metalheads who when they are done talking just end up sounding like the very conformists they despise. Not to say I agree with everything you say, but I think everyone can benefit from having an open mind. Some people are closed-minded by nature, and will never understand the value in certain things, but I feel sorry for those people.

    I consider the very idea of a trend to be a paradox. Ever notice how it has become trendy to hate trendy bands? Next, it will be trendy to like the trendy bands that were previously hated on by the no-trend anti-conformist guys. It just goes on and on. It is okay to hate Nickelback or Creed, just make sure you hate them because you find their music distasteful, not because you are trying to fit into a certain group or trend. Like what you like, hate what you hate, just be honest about it.

    I own the first 2 Limp Bizkit albums, the first three KoRn albums, and I enjoy certain later songs from both bands as well. I like St. Anger, Load, Youthanasia, and many other albums many people here would consider shit. And I own them because I like them, and no other reason. It’s easy to hate something when you go into it with the mentality that you are going to hate it. Keep an open mind, folks, you might be surprised at what you learn.

    • zhitnik

      Some afterthoughts:

      Ever wonder why many people tend to like earlier works of bands? Seems odd to be so high up on a few early albums, then hate the same bands later on in their career.

      Well, consider it this way: when someone goes to listen to the first album a band makes, you generally go in with basically no expectations, no verdict, no real opinion. After all, its a new band, how could you not be open minded at first listen? So, you happen to like this album. Then a couple years later the same band releases another album. Now the approach is different. You go in with your own thoughts, opinions, you are automatically more critical, since you already listened to the first one a billion times. Many times this approach leads to feeling let down, because you went in with your own pre-conceived expectations, and it turned out to be a little (or a lot) different than what you thought you were going to get. This tends to just compound itself over multiple album releases. I wonder what people would have thought about Metallica if their first album was Load, or even Death Magnetic…probably wouldn’t be anywhere close to the punching bags they represent currently…

  • Devilinside3x6

    I think Load is awesome. Outlaw Torn, Bleeding Me, Hero of the Day…Even ReLoad had its moments…I think if a band not named Metallica had put out Load it would have garnered the respect it deserved.

    Kudos to Doc for this post…a long as he’s not being ironic again to make us all look stupid.

    I don’t think the popularity rule applies to every band…sometimes songs and bands become popular without merit. All That Remains put out a piece of shit record with attempts at singing and it gets them on the radio. I would honestly rather listen to Randy Travis than anything Mudvayne or Korn have done in a decade or so.

    When I want to write or drift away I listen to Mastodon or BTBAM…when I want to bang my head I listen to Emmure or DevilDriver…

    • zhitnik

      Yea, you just named my favorite 3 songs on Load, in order. Many of the songs on load were over the 6 minute mark…Outlaw Torn was over 10. They simply rocked on that album…

      • Devilinside3x6

        I think Kirk’s guitar work on that album was greatly under-appreciated…

  • deflepplin

    Its easy, just dig what you dig. No apology. Too many people are too fucking pussy to dig there own thing. Its like when you are in college and the professor asks if you all get it, and there is silence and a palpable tension in the air. Then some fucker (usually myself) says, “I don’t get it. Repeat that again please.” Then you can feel the collective sigh of relief in the room, because all you pussies are saying to yourself “Fuck yeah thank god for that dude cuz I’m totally fucking confused ” 90% of the room is in the same boat. There is always someone coming up to me and saying “Thanks for speaking up”. I’m tired of it. you all need to quit being so fucking lame and just be real about who you are. There’s nothing more metal than that, I say. Maybe I’m always the guy that speaks up because I’m a metal hed. I don’t know, but something funky is going on.

    Shit, I like Poison’s first album alot. It came at a time when it fit with my thing, and now I’m nostalgic about it. At the time I was heavy into Thrash (1986-87), but that Poison shit felt right too. I also fucking love Turbo. Its got alot of great fucking solos and cool grooves on it. Sometimes the lyrics make me wince, but the music is catchy.

  • Lord Shay

    I love Disturbed and proud of it! I am also a big fan of Priest and Bloodbath so who gives a shit =) I Think alot of people get shit for only listening the mainstream bands and disregarding the somewhat more original bands, this pisses alot of metalheads off. So I think it’s not just the listening to mainstream bands what people hate on, it’s more their fans (well, a part of their fans)

  • Ziltoid

    From what I gather, this website is inhabited mainly by “true” metal heads.

    HAHA, no. These people are mostly idiots.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kasper-Maigaard/1027001938 Kasper Maigaard

      1

    • DidgeryDo

      It would take someone of slightly above average intelligence like Ziltoid to be so amused
      by being smarter than morons.

  • http://vague-news.blogspot.com Clarky Cat

    From what I gather, this website is inhabited mainly by people who think your taste in music is a good representation of who you are and that if you don’t listen to the best metal, you’re a complete loser. Music is entertainment. Entertainment isn’t life.

  • Metalcelt

    Wow, this one can be labeled “dutifully stating the obvious”. You may as well say “water is wet and night is dark”, such is the extent of your profound insights. Stick to playing guitar dude, waxing philosophical is not your strong suit.

  • John

    “If you’ve got hate in your heart let it out”

    Having said that, Disturbed got me into metal in the first place and since then ive discovered all sorts of great metal, from the holy triniy of melodic death metal to bands like DEP and Psyopus. While I don’t listen to much Distrubed anymore, i still love their singers voice to death.

  • anthony

    Beer is mainstream haters.

  • fullmetaldeskjockey

    The whole concept of hating perticular bands to fit in with your peers seems pretty ridiculous but very familiar conecept to me. I’m not sure what age bracket the majority of this site’s readers fit into but I’d hazard a guess they a little too long in the tooth to remember hanging around in their local town centres berating bands that secretly they had no problem with and whining when a underground band finally achieved mainstream success. It was truely a dark time for my expanding my musical sensibilites.

  • Milo

    Doc, you wrote that because you don’t like people who think your band is lame, didn’t you? I love that little straw man you created when you suggested that people who don’t share your thoughts are mostly guys with sheep mentality. I guess those who agree with your every word are supposed to be individualist free thinkers, right? Sure they are. Sure they are.
    You picked a very smart, concealed way of protecting your band’s “underground credibility” against the people who think your music simply isn’t good enough.

    First of all I have to mention I’m not a guy who feels the need to blend in. I’m probably one of the ten people on this planet who think Mastodon isn’t all that great. I mean, they are a good band, but I think they get more hype than they deserve and their newest album is probably their worst. See? I’m capable of voicing unpopular opinions. I understand why many people would disagree with my thoughts on Mastodon and I completely respect their views.
    I agree that there is nothing wrong with liking or disliking a particular genre/band/album/song. Problems start when people think something is great just because they like it. I think music quality isn’t THAT subjective because measuring originality, creativity, musicianship and band’s influence on other musicians isn’t that subjective. The fact that some people like Cynic and that some are into Linkin Park doesn’t mean both bands deserve equal respect because originality, creativity and musicianship are (in my opinion) more important qualities than being able to achieve mainstream success.

    In my case, I enjoy listening to a few numetal songs from time to time. In Flames or Lamb of God can be fun too, but these are cheap thrills which become boring very quickly. The clean, obviously melodic, mainstream elements in their music gives them this artificial cookie-cutter feel. To me they are like soda – it’s great to have it once in a while, but if you use it all the time it just becomes nauseating and makes you want to try something healthier.
    The fact that the mainstream sounding metal quickly bores me makes me appreciate the bands which have a more original, unique sound which (to me) has a more lasting value.

    You are making the assumption that people dislike certain kinds of music because they want to fit in and be seen as rebels. What about those who simply think most of popular numetal, deathcore and LoG-ish, polished death-metal-ish, metalcore-ish crap isn’t as good as some of the less popular bands?
    Don’t suggest I’m a sheep who doesn’t actually have a real opinion and acknowledge the fact that people have the right to say that certain kinds of music simply aren’t as good as other ones. Also try to live with the thought that some metal fans have legitimate reasons to believe your band sounds generic and dull, and simply isn’t as important as, let’s say, Neurosis, Napalm Death, Melvins or Cynic. Really, they are not saying that just to fit in.

    I understand that people can have different opinions than me and I don’t consider myself a musical know-it-all. It’s just really annoying when others reject my views as if they were thoughts of a close minded sheep-like purist, because I do believe I’m entitled to my opinion and that my arguments aren’t this easy to dismiss.
    I’ve probably made a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes in that rant. Sorry for that. I rarely use English.

    • Pedro

      Well said.

    • DidgeryDo

      Doc is making generalizations which are true a lot of the time. You being the exception to the
      rule does not make his blog less valid. That’s anecdotal evidence at best.

      No matter how much you try to rationalize away your personal ramifications of his statements,
      the fact remains that he must have struck a nerve with things that are true about you to get
      so defensive. You responded as if Doc called out the name “Milo” in the blog. That’s pretty
      telling to me.

      Still you did make a good post so I’ll give you that.

      • Sweet Dee

        Do you think maybe he struck a nerve with things that aren’t true about Milo for him to get defensive?

        • DidgeryDo

          That was creative.

          • Sweet Dee

            I’m just really curious as to why you would assume this blog stuck a nerve with Milo that must ring true to home for him to feel defensive?

          • DidgeryDo

            It’s pretty simple. Dallas was not calling anyone out by name but
            clearly the ones who treat it as if it were a personal message to
            them must have somehow recognized lots of things in the writing
            that spoke directly to him.

            So Milo responded to “set the record straight.” I just don’t buy it,
            that’s all. Sue me.

          • DidgeryDo

            It’s pretty simple. Doc was not calling anyone out by name but
            clearly the ones who treat it as if it were a personal message to
            them must have somehow recognized lots of things in the writing
            that spoke directly to him.

            So Milo responded to “set the record straight.” I just don’t buy it,
            that’s all. Sue me.

      • Milo

        Logic just isn’t your thing, is it?
        Let’s analyze this statement:
        “Most people calling themselves are close minded and have a sheep mentality.”
        Are you offended by that? According to your (faulty) logic this means something about the statement is true. It just doesn’t work like that, does it?

        I would love to see you prove that Doc’s opinion is true “a lot of the time” and that he is talking about a valid rule. Because I think his opinion counts as “anecdotal evidence” too and it’s impossible to determine what is the rule. Especially when you read the comments below his article and notice that one of his main assumptions (that Metalsucks is inhabited mostly by purists) clearly isn’t true. In his opinion people criticize things because they want to be part of the hardcore metal fans club. I think most of the time they criticize when they don’t like things.

        • Milo

          I wrote
          “Most people calling themselves DidgeryDo are close minded and have a sheep mentality.”
          but your nick disappeared.

        • DidgeryDo

          LOL non-sequitor for the win…

          OK so no I’m not offended, just a little amused. Now your entire argument
          falls apart lol.

        • DidgeryDo

          OK so onto a more legitimate response for you to sink your teeth into. First
          of all Doc made a generalization which basically says, “In my experience
          lots (read LOTS but not ALL) think so and so. The implication is allready
          that LOTS does not mean ALL therfore we allready know there are
          exceptions to the rule. For you to make a huge diatribe about how you are
          the exception to the rule does in no way defeat Doc’s points because
          he allready implied that there would be SOME people who were not hating
          the mainstream for sheep-like reasons. In this way you added nothing.

          This is not a quantifiable proof of sorts, just something you can take and
          think yeah I think I’ve seen that a few times. Sure. Like some of the posters
          I’ve seen here you might say, “I’ve been guilty of that before.”
          Being vague is actually productive for this type of
          conversation because Doc is mature enough not to call people out by name, but
          rather stir a discussion that gets people thinking about it.

          Now onto why I think your response is telling of Doc’s points possibly being
          true of you. Once again I am generalizing too. I’m not saying for a fact this
          is the case, but just that it really looks that way lol!

          Say some guy blogs , “Lots of people in Philly are gay.” You get a guy who
          responds with a giant wall of text explaining all the ways he is NOT GAY
          and he is clearly upset. OK well the blogger never said ALL people
          in Philly are gay so one has to wonder why he felt attacked personally
          and needed such a lengthy defense. Naturally a lot of people would now
          wonder if maybe the dude really was in fact gay and in denial. See in
          that case it struck a nerve.

          So once again. Doc never called you by name Milo and he never said
          EVERY person thinks that way. Your response, I still maintain, is a bit
          telling.

        • DidgeryDo

          In short your argument was a strawman. An overly-simplified version
          of what I was saying that was easier to refute.

          • Milo

            I’m not claiming to be an exception to a rule because in my opinion Doc’s rule can’t be considered as a fact and I’m pointing out that another rule may have been used instead and would have been just as true. I’m a guy who listens to certain kinds of music and at the same time notices they aren’t as good as other kinds. I’m not a purist who rejects music because it isn’t “hardcore” enough. Like everyone else I turn music off when it starts to bore me. Doc divides metal fans into groups in a way that doesn’t make sense to me. The majority are purist, want to be accepted and are open to new music. That’s my opinion.
            Any claim that “most of the time” something happens is just an opinion if you can’t prove it. Doc says most of the time fans criticize things to feel accepted. I think that doesn’t make sense and in my opinion they usually criticize when they don’t like things. Both mine and his statements are weak and exactly as true. I was pointing out that there is no way to determine who is right and clearly you can’t notice that because you agree with Doc, and in your eyes that makes his statement “truthier”.

            Your example with gay Philly guys doesn’t match this situation because I’m not claiming to be an exception. I’m not like a guy saying he isn’t gay. I’m the dude pointing out that making this kind of general statements is senseless.

          • DidgeryDo

            It was meant to start a discussion and to that aim it worked very
            well. Nothing in what I said or what Doc said implied that we needed
            to prove this as a fact.

            Let’s get back to the Philly/gay analogy. Would you need somebody
            to empirically prove this before you believed it?

            sheeesh….

          • DidgeryDo

            Now the most idiotic thing you are saying here is that “you are not
            trying to be the exception to the rule because what Doc
            is saying cannot be proven as a fact.”

            Go back and read your post. A great deal of it is you explaining
            all the ways you are different from what Doc described! Who gives
            a flying fuck if Doc’s observations can be proven scientifically
            or not? You are still trying to be the exception to what Doc is
            saying.

            Stop parsing words allready.

          • DidgeryDo

            For the record. “Exception to the Rule” is a saying. The “rule”
            in this statement is not necessarily an absolute law of
            physics to be quantified in a fucking equation. I know you understand
            this and you are just being overly literal to be a smartass.

            Obtuse as all hell…

          • Milo

            No matter how hard I try you simply don’t get it. Let’s say Doc wrote a definition of something. I look at it and think it isn’t good enough. I write my own definition not to disprove his (because I think it can’t be done), but because I consider my definition better.

            I’m not trying to be an exception to a rule. I’m constructing a different rule and pointing out that since neither can be proven or disproved they should both be considered exactly as true. Can you understand that? I’m not talking about myself to become an exception. I’m only pointing out what kind of experience led me to think that Doc’s rule isn’t good enough.
            How is that too complicated for you?

          • DidgeryDo

            “You are making the assumption that people dislike certain kinds of music because they want to fit in and be seen as rebels. What about those who simply think most of popular numetal, deathcore and LoG-ish, polished death-metal-ish, metalcore-ish crap isn’t as good as some of the less popular bands?
            Don’t suggest I’m a sheep who doesn’t actually have a real opinion and acknowledge the fact that people have the right to say that certain kinds of music simply aren’t as good as other ones. Also try to live with the thought that some metal fans have legitimate reasons to believe your band sounds generic and dull, and simply isn’t as important as, let’s say, Neurosis, Napalm Death, Melvins or Cynic. Really, they are not saying that just to fit in.

            DEAR GOD LOL. Doc was making observations. OBSERVATIONS
            DO NOT REQUIRE PROOFS TO BE VALID NUMBNUTS! You are not
            “replacing” his definition. You are simply stating that you, personally,
            hate the mainstream for different reasons then the people he observed
            and do you know what that means? THAT MEANS HE WAS NOT
            ADDRESSING YOU AT ALL!

            If you seriously thought that Doc was not aware that there are
            people who like these bands for more legitimate reasons then
            he was observing then you are mentally diseased. GET HELP!

            I understand what you were saying you fucking mongoloid. It’s
            not even remotely complex! What on earth could delude you into
            thinking that?!?

            EVERYTHING YOU STATED IN YOUR INTIAL POST WAS ALLREADY
            IMPLIED IN DOC’S ORIGINAL STATEMENTS. THIS MEANS EVERYTHING
            YOU ARE SAYING ADDS NOTHING OF ANY WORTH TO THE
            DISCUSSION. WE DO NOT HAVE TO GO BACK AND FORTH TO
            ESTABLISH THIS.

            FINALLY ENOUGH WITH THE CALL FOR PROOFS YOU DUMBSHIT.
            If some guy observes something and knows it to be true and I agree
            because I’ve seen it to there is no call to prove this to a third party
            although, truthfully, it could be done. WHY THE FUCK WOULD I WANT
            TO THOUGH!!!! I’VE ALLREADY OBSERVED IT AND DO NOT NEED
            EMPIRICAL DATA TO CONFIRM IT.

            You are BEYOND fucking stupid.

          • Milo

            You clearly have a problem with noticing the difference between opinion and fact.

            Observations without conclusions are rather useless. The same observation can lead two different people to different conclusions. Doc noticed that metal fans sometimes pretend to dislike certain music to earn respect in the metal fan community. I noticed that too. Doc thinks that happens often and I disagree. No matter if you like it or not my point of view is as valid as his. In my first post I wrote what I don’t like about his “rule” and in more recent messages I specified what in my opinion is the real “rule”, the behavior which we can observe most often. Both Doc’s and my opinions are just that – opinions. Not facts. Ultimately opinions don’t mean much.

            Even in the part of my first post, the part you quoted it’s easy to notice that in many sentences I’m not writing only about myself (“What about THOSE who”), but about a group of people I’m part of. I disagree with Doc’s opinion that we are a negligible minority. In my opinion there are so many of us it’s irrational to consider us exceptions. So I constructed a different rule which counts us as part of the majority. I’m not trying to disprove his rule. I’m only explaining why I disagree with it and why I consider my rule to be better.

            During this whole discussion you keep assuming Doc is right and that his conclusion is true. You have no logical reason to do that. You merely share his OPINION. Based of your experience and observations you agree with his conclusion. I don’t and that’s based on my observations and experiences. I have a different opinion. Clearly you can’t notice his statement can’t be considered as an undeniable fact and because of that other opinions can be valid too.

            “If some guy observes something and knows it to be true and I agree because I’ve seen it to there is no call to prove this to a third party although, truthfully, it could be done.”
            You don’t KNOW his conclusions are true. You THINK they are true. It’s not a fact you can undeniably prove. It’s an opinion you can agree or disagree with.

            Initially I though I can have a mature discussion with you. Your tantrums and name calling have sure proved me wrong about that. Because of your juvenile behavior I’m not going to reply to your messages anymore.

          • DidgeryDo

            Fine by me. I’d have to write a thousand words at least to deconstruct
            the plethora of contradicitons, non sequitor and plain idiocy of
            your last post alone. Thanks for sparing me.

          • HokiePokie

            Dude, you seriously need to hop off this “Doc” guy’s dick. You’re all over the comments defending every single thing the dude has said in his post, you’re being an asshole about it, and you look like a fucking creeper. It’s a comment section in a blog post and you’re acting like it’s such a large part of your life that you just NEED to comment on every 3 or so comment posts.

            If you want to defend the fact you have no music taste and listen to Linken Park, that’s fine. Just hop off the dude’s dick and stop being a fanboy. Most people here are like “I’m hopping on the Mainstream is cool” bandwagon and now they think they’re awesome because they listen to crap mainstream like Linken Park instead of good mainstream like Lady Gaga. None of you are cool just because you listen to mainstream and are “open minded” (most of the time, it’s just piss poor taste.) I’m sorry.

  • Sin and Death

    Yeah, fuckers!

  • Robotscythe

    Great blog, Doc.

    Reminds of one of my favorite quotes: “The cult aesthetic of liking only what’s obscure is just as sick as being mindlessly led around by the nose by what’s popular.”
    -Mark Mothersbaugh

    • DidgeryDo

      Ziltoid take notice of this…

  • jordaniac89

    I will have to be honest Doc. This article has completely changed the way I feel about music. Very, very well said. You should teach your dumb ass brother to write like this.

    • DidgeryDo

      I’m sure Doc would say, “You can lead a horse to water…”

      • jordaniac89

        lol…so true.

  • Lacerated dude

    You speak the truth brother! I was a very closed minded metal back in the day. But music in ANY genre is just amazing. I listen to a lot of crap and I fucking love it and crank it up in my car. From Hector Lavoe to Infected Mushroom to Wintersun to Blur to Psycroptic. Fucking love music!

    • Biff_Tannen

      you sound like a mouth-breathing retard, that much is clear.

    • DidgeryDo

      I want to defend this guy but man he makes it hard…

      “I listen to a lot of crap and crank it up in my car!”

      Yeah indefensible. Still Biff is a douche.

  • infern0

    I would just like to point of the ultimate irony that occurs with either agreeing or disagreeing with this blog.

    • Sweet Dee

      Right?!? I thought what Doc wrote was the stupidest thing I’ve ever read, but then I looked down at the comments…

    • DidgeryDo

      You completely miss the point man. Agreeing or disagreeing do not inherrently make you sheep.
      It’s all about your reasons for doing it. Doc is generalizing by saying that a LOT of people
      behave this way when it comes to musical tastes and from what I’ve seen he’s absolutely
      right.

      • Sweet Dee

        I think you’re completely missing the irony, man. According to Doc, you have 3 choices here. You can listen to Nickelback and think that its good just like every other simpleton who likes generic garbage that sounds the same. Or you can hate it because its “cool” to hate. Or you can turn your radio up in protest (real brilliant, Doc) and listen to something you don’t like. Either way, I think the major point is: sorry you’re still in high school and have to deal with kids who tell you what’s cool and what’s not.

        • DidgeryDo

          No I’m not. The irony only exists if there is a gross oversimplification of
          what Doc was saying in which we don’t question WHY somebody
          agrees or disagrees.

          I see exactly what infern0 is saying. If you agree with Doc you are being
          a sheep and if you disagree you are being a sheep and therefore
          no matter what you do you are guilty and therefore there is no solution.
          Still it would take an uncreative moron to think that way when it’s obvious
          there are lots more possible reasons for people to agree or disagree
          without being some kind of sheep.

          The real irony is your incredibly one dimensional way of looking at this
          and use of the word “simpleton” for someone who is looking at it in a much
          more fleshed out way then you.

  • JRTME

    I think most of the close mindedness comes from people not being in the industry.

    They see things very black and white when you are just a fan and don’t understand the process of being in the industry.

  • Spot

    Baaaaaaaaaaa

  • SourDeez

    I don’t see things in shades of popularity at all. If a band is no good, they’re no good. It just so happens that there are a lot of no good mainstream bands, but that’s because the mainstream latches onto a trend i.e. metalcore and then overexposes us to it. There are commercial metalcore, deathcore, and nu-metal bands that are good at what they do. I think the first 2 Avenged Sevenfold records are completely badass. I do consider The Red Chord to be deathcore, considering they were one of the first bands to mix tech-death and hardcore, and they fucking slay all day. I still listen to LD.50, White Pony, and Skeletons from time to time and when I do I still enjoy them wholeheartedly. The problem is, when these bands became popular, certain labels decided to sign and aggressively promote a million bands that don’t “do what they do well”. They do what OTHER bands have done well, and quite a lot of them do it poorly. This is what leads to an entire genre being dismissed by “true” metal fans. When most of the mainstream music IS force-fed garbage people tend to put all mainstream music in a box. This is also bad. I honestly believe that there are people who dismissed Mastodon’s Crack the Skye due to its commerciality without even really listening to it. And by that I mean 10-20 times at least, because that’s about what it takes for the musical ideas in that album to sink in. I think there are people who heard it once, heard a more commercial sound, saw the marketing, saw the band performing on a talk show, and just decided “this band sucks” without even giving the music a chance. The problem is when people forget that sometimes a band gets popular because they are a good band, and not just because someone saw marketing potential. Mastodon is a great example of a good, original band with some sort of perceived commercial viability. We can respect them because even on Warner Bros they continue to make the wacky, inventive albums that they want to make. In short, you should only hate on something for being commercial if it’s cookie cutter and obviously riding the coattails of another band. Otherwise hate on things for purely musical reasons.

    • DidgeryDo

      “It just so happens that there are a lot of no good mainstream bands,”

      Why do people who say this constantly ignore that there are a plethora of horrible underground
      bands too?

      • Biff_Tannen

        Because the horrible underground bands aren’t all over the radio and mtv, becoming rich of thier lack of talent. Way to go, Einstein.

        • DidgeryDo

          No. Instead they are all over the internet garnering undue praise for their
          obscurity which nine times out of ten is because of their lack of talent.
          Thank you.

  • Who Gives A Damn

    Eh,.. a lot of today’s Metal in general just suck, but I dig some mainstream shit even though I am mostly Death Metal

  • I Hate Ziltoid (aka Nacho Cheese Doritos)

    Court is in session…a verdict is in!

  • Chris

    I agree with everything Doc just said though I am sometimes guilty of the very behavior Doc attacks in his article.

  • I killed a Dunky

    Guilty as Charge, I hate Limp Biskit, I had the album with the pill, hate 3 DOORS DOWN LOL we all should get together a do a GROUP HUG

  • Biff_Tannen

    “From what I gather, this website is inhabited mainly by “true” metal heads.”

    Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Move along folks, nothing relevant to read here.

  • Harold

    Its the internets, I get more attention by being hateful and following everyone else’s opinions.

  • straightshredding

    well there are some good points in there, theres always going to be someone knocking another style of metal and theres always going to be that argument on whats cool and whats not, in a way you got to give props to the bands that are getting significant radio play, obviously there doing something right (like making music for all the suburban mothers and there 14-15 year old kids) but hey if they get enough of those “fans” then by all means go to the shows buy the shitty merch and have a good time, dont mean that i have to like it or have to buy the merch to be “cool” what exactly is cool anyway? im a serious metal head and take my love of music very seriously does that make me cool? i dont think so and i know you probably dont either. im going to do what i want to do and not conform to something because someone tells me its good or cool to like that shit. growing up in the midwest (indiana) the music scene is kinda bland, not saying there isnt any good bands coming out of indy but its hard as fuck to get out of the midwest and get recognized with out playing with some already established bands. we have alot of so call “shitty” bands that play the local radio fests and have for years, very seldom do they put on a real legit show for the metal community. which i beleive is the second biggest community in this area other then fucking country, and country is only as big as it is around here because everyone is a farmer. and like many of you when nickleback, shinedown,b.b. 3 days grace or godsmack comes on the radio ill be almost punching the radio to change the channel, im just saying i like my shit brutal,fast, in your face take no prisoners attitude, and your just not going to get that out of bands that are being played on heavy rotation on the radio. the metal community is jam packed full of pissed off people, so they tend to shy away from anything commercial, and im just as guilty as the next person about when i see a band that im really into start to get radio play, start to not like that band as much not just because there on the radio, if your getting radio play like i said before your obviously doing something right. but the thing is when band that i like start to get rotation on the radio it makes me upset because now when i see that bands coming through my city i have to shell out extra money to see that band and not just that now i have to wake up sit on the computer for 10 am to hit so i can make sure i get tickets before “sally jane” uses her mom and dads credit card to scoop up the last ticket because she thinks she needs to go cause she wants to get the metal dudes at school to fuck her cause there the bad boys. its hard for outsiders to be excepted in the metal community because metal is in peoples blood and they dont like the girl/guy next door with there A7X,atreyu shirt on to be pumping Lamb of God. just sayin

    • DidgeryDo

      It’s cool that you like metal that much. I was in a frame of mind for a few years here near NYC
      where I was coming from a near death experience and trying to salvage my life. This was not
      when I discovered metal at all, but, it was a time when I listened to almost nothing else. What I liked
      was the zen-like focus of pure agression and it was also a great outlet for everything around
      that angered me from politics, to bad things happening in my life and of course getting used to how
      disconnected and isolated I sometimes felt when I first came here. It was also a great motivator.

      I still love metal but have to admit that leaving the frame of mind I was in that prompted me to listen
      to that and nothing else has been refreshing in ways I never imagined back then. I’m not saying
      you listen for the same reasons I did btw. What I’m really getting at is that I actually feel better
      not being a metal purist anymore.

  • brent

    No need for me to rehash what countless others before me have, refreshingly, already stated. It’s good to know that I’m not the only metal-head out there who doesn’t buy into the “br00tal” BS.

    Doc, if you actually read these things, I’d like to say: thanks for not perpetuating any sort of perceivable stereotypes about members of your profession. It helps the dream seem attainable to struggling musicians such as myself. Keep it up.

  • Caramba

    Millions of flies can’t be wrong…eat s***t.

  • Bob

    one of the greatest things in my life occurred when I realized I wasn’t in High school anymore and could like anything I want and be totally fuckin fine with it.Turned out I like a lot of really ghey fuckin music and honestly I am far happier with it than with out it.
    I might not rock a Disturbed shirt even if I like one frickin song by them , but that is true for any band when I only like one song, plus I don’t want to be associated with that shit , so clearly I have my limits as far as my comfort level goes with openly liking some shit.
    However I would rock an ABBA shirt any day of the week, and have a Lady Gaga poster , the only poster, in my bedroom.yeah , I know totally homeaux, great, now I want get the award for being most KVLT, I ll try to get over it.

  • SukMyBoomStik

    I’ve only been a Metal Sucks reader for a few weeks now but I can sum up the majority of these comment boards in one simple sentence: MY BAND’S DICK IS BIGGER THAN YOUR BAND’S DICK!!!

    • DidgeryDo

      My dick is much bigger then yoooouurrrs
      My cock can walk right through the door
      With a feeling so pure it’s got you coming back for mooooreeeee.

      That’s what Serj was getting at.

  • Fish

    I get the point, but I will immediately turn the radio off if Nickelback comes on.

  • Facebook User

    Doc, you tell it like it is. I feel guilty for skipping God Forbid at Mayhem Fest to get a good spot for Behemoth. My “mainstream guilty pleasures” include:

    Linkin Park
    Korn
    Creed
    Blink 182
    Atreyu
    Weezer
    Staind
    Limp Bizkit

    • Mr. Censored

      Never feel guilty about loving Weezer. If you don’t like “The Blue Album” then fuck you.

  • Freedom35

    As far as the whole argument about people only liking popular metal bands older works, I liken it to the same reason that I only like early releases from hip-hop artists: the hunger just isnt there after they have “made it” and it reflects in their music.

  • Dallas

    My brother is a smart mofo. Love his blogs.

    • Mike

      You are too, man. Just keep that darkness at bay and keep playing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Butler/100000300276967 James Butler

    i must say that i get caught up into discussions like this alot… whether i am the accusor or not, there is always a tension when discussing bands and whether or not you like them… i find myself at shows and i see certain bands that people are representing and i find myself almost immediately dismissing them just for their musical interests… i’m trying to not do it anymore due to the simple fact that its a shitty thing to do… but it almost seems embedded and of the norm

  • Mike

    When it comes to defending the mainstream, I always think of the kids, especially the ones in rural, low-income areas. When you’re 11 years old in a small factory town, you listen to what’s on the radio or the TV. You’re not into scenes, you don’t go to shows, you don’t spend hours perusing blogs to find out what’s cool (shit, I’m 25, maybe the kids do all that these days). You just appreciate what’s available to you. The Black Album lit a fire under my ass that’s still burning, and I don’t think there’s any reason to be apologetic about that. I think there’s something to be said for music that brings a lot of people together. When I went to my first Metallica show (Foxboro Stadium, MA), it felt really good to see tens of thousands of other people who were there for the same reason I was.

    That having been said, there is no excuse for defending Linkin Park, Doc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Colgan/26800545 Chris Colgan

    This is probably the smartest thing I’ve read in a long time, and I wish more metalheads thought this way. Thank you Doc for telling it like it is!!!!!

  • RenegadeDave

    Eh I was with you until you said Nickelback.

  • borneo metalheah

    Yah doc…why should we mock other genre..be universal and your metal music or songwriting will evolve..not the same shit you used to adore…yah i dont like pop and shitty hiphop but sometimes it feels good to listen to them. Like smoking weed while listening to drake!! Somehow metal always rules…ultimate music, some say culture