#5: CONVERGE – JANE DOE
Tuesday, June 30th, 2009 at 5:00pm by Sammy O'Hagar
We recently polled a wide array of musicians, managers, publicists, label reps, and writers from within the world of metal to find out what they thought the 21 Best Metal Albums of the 21st Century So Far have been. Eligible albums were released between January 1, 2000 and April 1, 2009. Each panelist turned in a ballot, with their #1 album worth 21 points, their #2 album worth 20 points, and so on and so forth. The ballots are now in and we’ll be counting down one album a day until we reach #1. Today we present the #5 album, coming in with a total of 181 points…
Converge, Jane Doe (Equal Vision Records, 2001)
Jacob Bannon – Vocals
Kurt Ballou – Guitars
Aaron Dalbec – Guitars
Nate Newton – Bass
Ben Koller – Drums
Produced by Matthew Ellard and Kurt Ballou
The still-unmatched excellence of Converge’s 2001 masterpiece Jane Doe (though 2006’s No Heroes came close) was a precursor to where the metal underground would go in the decade that followed it: the unending blurring of the borders between metal, hardcore, and grindcore. But whereas their disciples would rely heavily on irony and weak pop culture references over a carbon copy of Converge’s sound, Jane Doe is still as powerful as it was initially, an unrestrained marriage of savagery and pathos perfectly captured by Matthew Ellard’s and guitarist Kurt Ballou’s top notch production. The album hasn’t been cheapened by the years that followed it; in fact, it’s only grown more potent with time. While they weren’t the first band to weld squirrelly guitar violence, crushing slow parts, and jagged melody, they were one of the first to make it sound important.
The band had hinted at the depth and variety of Jane Doe before: Petitioning the Empty Sky was a meeting of fragile OG-emo singing and chaotic, discordant hardcore, and When Forever Comes Crashing delved deeper into that meeting, with desolate non-metal numbers offsetting the lumbering heaviness of “The High Cost of Playing God”, “Love as Arson”, and “My Unsaid Everything.” But Jane Doe tweaked everything Converge had been doing to perfection, creating an album that was both heavier than their prior output as well as more smoothly constructed. It’s a solid from-front-to-back record that’s simultaneously a plea to the heart and an elbow to the chest. The band went from being a spunky, boisterous hardcore band to a mature, devastating noise collective over the course of one album. The work they’d done before (and after, for that matter) lay in Jane Doe’s long shadow.
From the one-two punch opening of “Concubine” and “”Fault and Fracture” to the almost post-metal closing title track, Jane Doe is a collection of vague emotional textures ranging from wounded animal rawness to malevolent anger, all with graceful transitions between parts. The slow-burning buildups in “Hell to Pay” and “Phoenix in Flight” provide uneasy breathing room between rollicking jaunts to hell like “Heaven in Her Arms” and the ballsy rock ‘n’ roll of “Homewrecker.” The latter sounds almost like a radio single among the aural violence that surrounds it, but it’s still is primo Converge: hairpin turn riffing, Jacob Bannon’s indecipherable vocals, and Ben Koller’s nimble stickwork. But there’s something ominous beneath its surface; whether or not Jane Doe is a concept album is a moot point, because the emotional bleakness that comes to the surface on the closing track runs throughout the album, both lyrically (references to “no love, no hope, nowhere” and “searching the streets with bedroom eyes dying to be saved” shed light on Bannon’s miserable mindset during the album’s conception) and musically. But their trademarks make Jane Doe’s objective cloudy, thus keeping it obscure and avoiding the melodramatic mess that it could have been.
On an album as loud and violent as Jane Doe, it’s biggest successes are subtle: the album is a trip over the charred landscape of the end of a relationship, with the title track’s closing minutes – a build-up that doesn’t actually build up to anything – wordlessly expressing the frustrating pointlessness of it all. There’s a lot one can speculate about Jane Doe, but none of its intent is explicitly stated on the album. The band ask you to draw your own conclusions, which is refreshing considering dumbed down decade that followed it.
Of course, the album could have been marred by lousy production, lost in muddy obscurity or the polished-to-death sonics of the Big Hardcore of the time. Matthew Ellard and Kurt Ballou started a still-going string of perfect-sounding Converge records, with Jane Doe being one of the most accurately sounding albums in metal history: the guitars are big but still dirty and raw, Nate Newton’s bass a filthy undercurrent, Koller’s drums the loud and crisp mortar holding the band together, and Jacob Bannon’s vocals kept democratically low in the mix as not to distract from the rest of the band (eschewing a mistake made on many, many metal and hardcore albums before and after). Jane Doe is Converge fully realized, standing confidently in the clusterfuck of the post-nu metal, dawn of file sharing underground landscape. With hardcore’s condescending preachiness and post-9/11 America’s hatred of subtlety and complexity, the record is a set of questions that the band leaves up to you to answer, whether it be from theorizing what you think Converge’s intent was to applying your own personal tumult and hardship to its open ends. It’s still a breath of fresh air almost ten years after its release, as well as a still-rocky journey through the rough scar tissue of the soul.
-SO
THE LIST SO FAR:
#6 – Killswitch Engage, The End of Heartache
#7 – Lamb of God, Ashes of the Wake
#9 – Gojira, From Mars to Sirius
#13 – Mastodon, Blood Mountain
#14 – System of a Down, Toxicity
#15 – Nachtmystium, Assassins: Black Meddle, Part 1
#16 – Machine Head, The Blackening
#18 – Lamb of God, New American Gospel
#20 – Shadows Fall, The War Within
#21 – Slipknot, Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses
THE PANEL OF VOTERS
Chris Adler, Lamb of God
Dan And, Bison B.C.
Ben Apatoff, Apatoff for Destruction/Metal Injection
Jason Bittner, Shadows Fall
Tim Brennan, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
Freddy Cai, Painkiller Magazine
Ian Christe, Bazillion Points
Reverend David J. Ciancio, Yeah! Management
Betsey Cichoracki, Relapse Records
Paul Conroy, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
J. Costa, Thy Will Be Done
Dallas Coyle, ex-God Forbid/Coyle Media
Doc Coyle, God Forbid
CT, Rwake
Anso DF, MetalSucks/Hipsters Out of Metal!
Vince Edwards, Metal Blade Records
Charles Elliott, Abysmal Dawn/Nuclear Blast Records
Brian Fair, Shadows Fall
Leo Ferrante, Warner Music Group
D.X. Ferris, author 33 1/3: Reign in Blood/Freelance Journalist
Mike Gitter, Roadrunner Records
Nick Green, Decibel
Matt Grenier, August Burns Red
Anthony Guzzardo, Earache Records
Kevin Hufnagel, Dysrhythmia
Mark Hunter, Chimaira
Steve Joh, Century Media
EJ Johantgen, Prosthetic Records
Kim Kelly, Metal Injection/Hails & Horns/Freelance Journalist
Josh “The J” Key, Psychostick
Jason Lekberg, Epic Records
Eyal Levi, Daath
Bob Lugowe, Relapse Records
Matt McChesney, The Autumn Offering
Jake McReynolds, Psychostick
Marc Meltzer, The Syndicate
Josh Middleton, Sylosis
Matt Moore, Rumpelstiltskin Grinder
Vince Neilstein, MetalSucks
Sammy O’Hagar, MetalSucks
Anton OyVey, MetalSucks/Bacon Jew
Rob Pasbani, Metal Injection
Alex Preiss, Psychostick
Carlos Ramirez, NoiseCreep/Universal Music Group
Brian Rocha, Fresno Media USA
Jeremy Rosen, Roadrunner Records
Axl Rosenberg, MetalSucks
Satan Rosenbloom, MetalSucks/Cerebral Metalhead
David Bee Roth, MetalSucks
Jason Rudolph, Heavy Hitter, Inc.
Amy Sciarretto, Roadrunner Records/NoiseCreep
Carl Severson, Ferret Music/Channel Zero Entertainment
Gary Suarez, MetalSucks/No Yoko No/Brainwashed
Geoff Summers, The End Records/Crustcake
Bram Teitelman, The Syndicate/Metal Insider
Alisha Turull, Heavy Hitter, Inc.
Christopher R. Weingarten, 1000TimesYes/Freelance Journalist
I’m not really sure why, but I would have NEVER seen this coming (it is a damn good album though).
i never even considered this
I always put converge in the hardcore punk category, which is why I never considered it. I guess I was mistaken?
After some of the other sorta metal choices on this list is it really surprising? This was definitely one of the first albums that came to my mind as far as best cd’s to come out since 2000.
interesting choice
wow straight out of left field. 1-4 is death magnetic, CtS, leviathan, and blackwater park, i would bet
I would think Colors and a album from DEP.
Yes Colors ruled. Can you find the ENTOMBED sample on Jane Doe?
Okay, I’ll bite. Where and what is the Entombed sample? It’s not jumping out at me.
Exactly what I was looking for this whole time. Colors and Miss Machine (or Ire Works) FTW
I wouldn’t be suprised to see Colors at 2 or 3.
And if its not. i have one thing to say. “worst list ever.”
Death Magnetic? Are you high?
Naturally high off the sounds of millionaire rednecks, bi-sexuals and tennis (semi)stars.
You would have to be stoned and on the fuckin moon to think Death Magnetic would be that high. I wonder how many bowls were smoked in the making of this list anyway…at least 10 in my case in just reading it
Because only stoner faggots could pick such shitty music?
Well Balls…I think a bowl or two might go a long way for your bad attitude.
yeah, thats the point. I wasnt saying that was my list, i was saying that will be THE list. if white pony was top 12 and the end of fucking heartache was 6 death magnetic is surely top 4. The list is fucked up as hell, I’d rather see Nocturnal or The Fathomless Mastery, but that aint happenin.
As the Palaces Burn will make it based on the fact New American Gospel made it.
FUCK. YES.
Oh, and according to the metalsucks Twitter post 30 minutes ago, anyone who doesn’t like this album is a dick. Don’t shoot me; I’m just the messenger.
FUCK. YES. IS. RIGHT.
Converge ftw, Lord Bling. You know the truth.
Damn skippy. I own every album of theirs, and I think this is their finest. Great write-up about it too. I’d agree that You Fail Me is a close second.
Whoops. The reviewer said ‘No Heroes’ came close to matching this one. I still like You Fail Me more than No Heroes though.
I totally agree. I actually found No Heroes to be a little scatterbrained. You Fail Me’s flow was absolutely incredible. The title track is just unbelievable. No Heroes is only really solid in the middle, in and around Plagues.
Petitioning the Empty Sky is still probably my favorite Converge album, but Jane Doe is definitely their best.
I didn’t get into them until Jane Doe, so their earlier stuff hasn’t stuck with me as much. It’s still good shit though, but when I want to hear them, I reach for JD or YFM, or yeah … the middle of No Heroes is amazing … spot-on.
i, gnarlk, am glad to be a dick….
FUCK YES
Would be my No.1
I guessed it. Dunno why, but people have been raving about it, and I said “I wonder if it’s gonna be Today?”
Now I have to finally listen to it.
My report: HOLY SHIT.
By the way, I meant that in a good way
I never got that into Converge but this record definitely deserves to be on the list. good choice.
Probably one of the best albums ever really. The closing song is the most epic thing ever.
I must confess I know virtually nothing about these guys aside from simply being aware of their existence. Cool to see something I’m so totally unfamiliar with place so high on The List. Guess I’ll have to check ‘em out.
I am in the same boat. I might as well pick up a copy today along with the new Killswitch.
never heard a note of this album. i guess metalcore is bigger than i thought.
Didn’t see that coming, either. .. Does this appease the haters, or has too much damage been done?
AWESOME
Who?
this :]
asshole
its the internet….
To me this album is a whole a lot of spastic, monotone screaming and banging… Can’t agree with this one. Maybe its important for…history…or…something
i admit one thing this list is doing is giving me a lot of listening homework
Hell fucking yes. By far the best Converge album and just an overall masterpiece, from the songs to the artwork. Seeing this album this high was a great surprise. I only hope you don’t overlook Meshuggah, there’s at least 2 of their albums released this decade that deserve a spot. And Leviathan, which should probably be #1.
They’re probably gonna get skipped over. I really hope This Godless Endeavor shows up somewhere, it’s an absolutely amazing album.
meshuggah is incredible but they dont really have any classic albums. even D/E/I would be a toss-up if it was eligible.
Oh, HELL yes.
What is this I don’t even
Finally! The First pick I totally agree with.
If Strapping Young Lad’s “Alien” isn’t anywhere on this list, the world truly sucks.
Yeah, I was thinking that would probably be on here someplace, but I have to say that “SYL” is a much better album. “Alien” is really overrated. And I say that as a HUUUUUUUGE fan of anything Devin Townsend does. But the songs on SYL are better. Hell, The New Black is better too, for that matter. But whatever. I’m not a voter and this shit is just for fun anyway.
I thought Alien was their best since City. Didn’t really get into SYL. Felt like Devy was just going through the motions on that one (and he’s admitted as much in interviews). But I’ll take a mediocre Strapping album over a great KSE one! :)
Alien feels really chaotic and much less melodic to me (with “Love” being a huge exception). It’s certainly heavy as fuck, but kind of overwhelming in a wall-of-noise way. Frustrating. SYL has that same massiveness, but retains the melodies and the songs. I dunno. Something about Alien just kinda never tripped my trigger, comparitively speaking.
Metal fans aren’t picking these lists, it’s a bunch of knuckle-dragging metalcore faggots and some stupid jews who suck the cock of whatever trendy -core label is sponsoring their website at the time.
You should be drowned in a puddle of your own blood.
thats the funniest fucking thing ive ever read
Ziltoid, is that you? I was wondering where you went off to. Although, your brand of trolling is usually a little, oh, I don’t know … not so ’schoolyard bully’ and a little less borderline retarded?
Eat it, mothafuckaaaa.
Nah, I think Ziltoid at least graduated Jr. high. and could back up his point of view (although it be a tad too godallmighty) in a mostly intelligent manner.
What does Balls listen to?
The sound of other men’s balls slapping against his chin. DUDE, IT’S SO HEAVY.
That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read in such a long time.
I am still laughing.
Still. Laughing.
Glad to be of service. Although, I just realized that he couldn’t say ‘DUDE, IT’S SO HEAVY’ because his mouth would be full. It would sound more like, “MMPPH, MMPH FMM MMFMY!”
Duuuuude, I am still laughing!
And what am I doing early this morning? Still laughing!
Did you notice that he never came back? Perhaps he had dicks to attend to. Cuz what good are balls without dicks?
mmmm dicks.
you guys are making me hungry.
Ahhhhhhh killer!
Two Words…. FUCK YES!
Thank you jebus. Glad to see this in the top 5. I was afraid that this would get looked over in favor of lamb of god and killswitches 2000’s discography.
Well I’ll be damned. The metalsucks list with an amazing comeback!
Having KSE at # 6 is still a head scratcher tho.
Almost every other band on Epitaph sucks, so I haven’t bothered to give Converge a chance…the only other bands I can stomach on those labels are Gallows and The Hives
They are atypical for epitaph, and only there last two albums have been on that label. Epitaph has begun to diversify and get out of the whole so-cal punk stuff with classic acts like RL Burnside and…wait for it…Tom Waits
*their*
ahhh Tom Waits and Converge on one label, doesnt get much better than that. think I may have to throw on Bone Machine at some point today.
wonder if skeletonwitch will make the list now…
why not? did not see this one coming, even though skeletonwitch is just starting to get their name heard, Beyond the Permafrost is one of the best albums in the last few years Id say.
Jeez I hope, Skeletonwitch and God Dethroned would be such welcome additions to this list for me but I doubt either will make it in favor of better-known groups
I doubt it. If Skeletonwitch made the list, it’d mean the panels/this site would actually have to have good taste in music.
Skeletonwitch fucking owns. I have high hopes for the new album.
Here’s my guesses for 1-4 (in no order)
Mastodon – Crack The Skye
Mastodon – Leviathan
Metallica – Death Magnetic
Andrew W.K. – I Get Wet
Oh God, I would SHIT myself laughing if AWK makes it
Fingers crossed for “I Get Wet” being in there
PARTY HARD!
Fuck yeah! great album
Fuck yea! Seaking!
THANK YOU GOD ALL MISTAKES ON THIS LIST ARE ATONED FOR THANK YOU GOD
FINALLY , some hardcore/crossover/metalcore/toughguy shit is on the list !!!! I totally didn’t that one coming!! Who would’ve guessed…. more metalcore!
I love how you were called ‘Biff Tanner’ just 24 hours ago, then someone called you out for it.
haha, yeah ! I had to fix it, the dude was right !!! I give credit where it’s due.
Part of me wants to know what Biff Henderson thinks about all this.
Not metalcore and certainly not “toughguy shit”, toughguy.
You wish, faggot.
said a guy named balls
You wish you were as awesome as me. 8)
haha he made an ascii picture of his floppy dong.
Great album. Noise/Chaos-Core at it’s finest. I’ve always appreciated these guys. Good pick.
Where the FUCK is the REO Speedwagon?
County Fair – in the pavillion (they’re on after Head East is done).
Fuck yes I love Head East…Never been any reasonnnnnnnnnnn…
… but they’re opening for the puppet show!
Or, are they opening for Spinal Tap, who are opening for the puppet show? I can never remember. All I know is, Billy Madison is a huge fan of theirs.
I’ll be at the pie eating contest and checking out the awards for biggest vegetables between sets
Nice, a choice I heartly agree with between 1 and 4 id like to see fortress and the red album, crack the syke has to make an apperance.
The Red Album has to be here
fo sho
Red Album, really? I really like it but I don’t think it’s top 4. Maybe top 15.
I love the red album but I could never put it above this album.
where the fuck is prowler in the yard?
I’m guessing phantom limb shows up first…
Phantom Limb
Baroness -Red Album
Isis- Oceanic/Panopticon toss up
and probably Leviathan
that’s my guess/wishlist for what it’s worth
I’d love to see Prowler, but I’m guessing this is the last ‘chaotic’ album we’re gonna get. Four spots left, and you know Blackwater Park and at least one more Mastodon are coming. I’d also love to see Oceanic too. Still my favorite of theirs.
I think it’s silly to think KsE’s Alive or Just Breathing won’t be there (I’m thinking #2). Like em or not, that album was pretty huge.
The last four will be very interesting – not so much for what those four are, but for what will be excluded from the list.
I think it’s probably safe to say that Baroness (and a shitload of other suggestions/wants) is more than a long shot.
“The last four will be very interesting – not so much for what those four are, but for what will be excluded from the list.”
That’s pretty much what I was thinking. There are a lot of people saying ‘If (fill in the blank) isn’t on this list, I’m gonna be pissed!’ There are only four slots left, so there are gonna be a lot of pissed people.
Still to make an appearance?
LoG — Palaces
Opeth — Blackwater Park
Mastodon — Crack the Skye
Mastodon — Leviathan
Dillinger Escape Plan — Miss Machine
Unearth — Oncoming Storm
Protest the Hero — Fortress
Isis — Oceanic
KSE — Alive or Just Breathing
And many many others that I don’t have time to write out. Gonna be a lot of pissed people, especially when they go back through the entire list and see System, Deftones, Slipknot, etc., and not what they thought would finish in the top five.
You couldn’t be more right, man. The albums that get left off will tell
another story. There are just so many! I just kept thinking of more after
I commented above. I guess there may be some validity to all the bitching aboutafterall.
I’d say definitely Mastodon, but the list does not need more Lamb Of God or Killswitch Engage. I’m really really hoping there is some Meshuggah, how can you put Gojira on the list and not Meshuggah? Dillinger would be nice but let’s face it, Calculating Infinity would be the one and it’s not from this decade. And I’d say Opeth just because Blackwater Park is so much better than Ghost Reveries, not because it should be in the top 4.
It’s unfortunate that Coalesce’s new one doesn’t fit the time criteria, cuz that album is a monster!
“I’d say definitely Mastodon, but the list does not need more Lamb Of God or Killswitch Engage.”
I’m playing devil’s advocate here, since my list wasn’t a personal ‘wish list’ (although if BWP doesn’t show up there will be hell to pay). However, there have already been two Mastodon albums on this list. Plus, Chris Adler is on the panel of judges. Just sayin’. :)
Also, Meshuggah should be represented, but their best records are still DEI and Chaosphere. Would you put Obzen up there? Nothing? Both are good records but IMO, nowhere near their earlier work. This list basically punishes bands who have been around long enough to have masterpieces in the 90’s.
People getting pissed – actually taking personal offense! – about the list, who’s on it, at what ranking, who’s excluded, etc, is what makes this so much fun. I mean, actually getting *angry* about it? That’ so far beyond retarded I don’t even know what to say.
That said, I can’t WAIT to see the last four. Should be fun. Especially since clearly, so many people lack the reading fluency and comprehension skills to understand how the list was constructed, its parameters, what “voting” means, what “opinion” means, etc. Good times!
LOL
Yeah, and it’s given me something to look forward to every work day at 4:00. I’ll actually miss it a little. May have made a couple of enemies on some previous comment sections, but whatever. It’s all been in good fun. Anyone who takes this list ’super-serial’ needs to get out more.
You mean this list ISN’T just a list of the MI guys fav 21 albums? :)
Wow, I thought that the list would just get more mainstream and we’d get Hybrid Theory and Chocolate Starfish in the top 5, especially after the KSE album appeared at #6.
I can’t say that I like all of the metalcore bands that this album spawned but it’s still a kickass listen. And anybody who says that it’s just noise is a pussy. Metal is all about extreme sounds and loud noises. Hooray for a metalcore album that doesn’t suck.
My guesses for the remaining 4:
Leviathan
Wages of Sin
Miss Machine
The Oncoming Storm
MAYBE replace one of them with Codex Necro
Yeah these last 4 are going to be interesting. I would bet my life the oncoming store is not on it or Wages of Sin. My guess…Crack the skye, as the palaces burn, leviathan, and maybe fortress by PTH.
Not saying thats what I want, but those are my guesses.
Thats funny…. Converge is nowhere to be found on the Encyclopedia Metallum… hmmm. Why wouldn’t a band that has the 5th best ‘metal’ album of the century not have and entry in the metal archives? Oh, I know…they are in no way shape or form METAL.
I am waiting for you to say just kidding…
cuz you are a poser who get his info from 3rd rate “classification” sites
Have you even heard this album yet? Listen to the opening track, then come back and tell us how wrong you were.
Or, just go back under your bridge.
Yes, I’ve heard it…a few times. My younger brother likes this band quite a bit. Its not terrible for what it is, but I certainly do not believe its metal. Abrasive guitars/drums/vocalls do not make something ‘metal’. …. i realize these type of topics are pointless, but Im quite sure that the vast majority of people into metal do not regard this as metal. This site is an exception, becase many,many.many of the bands/articles on here deal with ‘core’ bands…..while you would never see this stuff on other traditionally ‘metal’ sites.
And yet, a vast majority of people who are into metal appreciate this record.
I’m fine with reading about bands like Converge on this site, because they don’t get the attention on other more mainstream sites (unlike the bands I’ve complained about previously, like Tool, Slipknot, Deftones, System, etc.). At the end of the day though, it’s been a fun list. Even though I don’t agree with a good number of the picks, I still own every album on it so far. Well, except for #6. KSE are the Tae Kwon Do of metal.
What fucking websites are you reading that cover the deftones? And, how old are you by the way? I’ve been into metal for a long, long ,long time, and have never met anyone who owns a Converge album AND a Venom or Mercyful Fate album. I don’t own any of these albums except Blood Mountain and Ghost Reveries (which I think is by faaaarrrr Opeth’s worst album). I listen to metal, not core shit.
Biff Tanner (I’m gonna keep calling you that because it makes me laugh), there are plenty of other music sites out there.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ultra+brootal+metal
For the record, I’m 34. And before anyone else asks, I own my own house (not in my mom’s basement), I have a girlfriend (not my hand), and I work a job that allows me to office out of the home, which is why I post here more than I probably should. :)
I’m not gonna say I’m the hugest Venom or Mercyful Fate fan in the world, but there is room in my collection for them AND Converge, and even some ‘core shit’. So while we haven’t ‘met’, you can say you’ve spoken to someone who does.
I like Ghost Reveries, but not nearly as much as I like BWP, Deliverance, Still Life, or even Watershed.
I own every album on this list except for #6, which I sold about a month after getting a copy. I used to work as a buyer at a corporate office for a multimedia retailer, and I made a few friends on the music side (and still have a couple of contacts who send me a lot of metal promos, and get me into shows for free). So maybe I’m an anomaly. But whatever. Go ahead and call my taste shit, I really don’t care what you think. I’ve complained enough about this list and what some of the judges consider ‘metal’, but I was really glad to see this record show up on here.
I think I’ve said enough.
Fuck you
I’d love to, but Ive got to get to work on filming your mom’s world record Bukkake attempt. It will be released on DvD under the title “Come on the White Chick” #17. Keep an eye out for it.
Be sure to post it in the Encyclopedia Metallum so all the other fucking retards can get a good look as well.
hahaha
Now THAT is how you post a come back. Bravo!
Awww, do you hold some kind of a grudge on them because they wont accept Slipknot or Converge on their metal site? Hold on, I’ll get on the phone and dial whine-1-1 and get them to dispatch a whambulance.
This is great, I honestly didn’t see this one coming at all, judging by the types of bands on the list so far. This CD got me into a whole new realm of metal back when it came out and I still listen to the disk quite a bit.
The production is almost as important as an instrument on this one, stellar.
Hipster.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what. I like good music, If some of it happens to be “hip” then so be it.
The term “hipster” is used by trend whores. It didn’t even exist with its current connotation when this album came out.
Hipster
Tool
#1 will prolly be something -core related.
Fine by me!
Should have been number 1.
Awesome, this one is in my top 5! Great review for an amazing record. This record was EXACTLY what i was looking for at the time. Converge is my fave hardcore band period
Yeah the review was great. Read the killswitch review, then read this one. Its like black and white. The dude who wrote the killswitch one is a dumbass, reading his review of it almost made me want to throw the CD away, while this one almost makes me want to go buy another one.
Exactly, HARDCORE band. This shit is NOT METAL. does not belong on a list of the 21 best METAL albums of the century.
I don’t like Converge because I’m not a faggot.
hahahahha !!! True, true.
Come on now, being gay has nothing to do with liking crap music.
I’ll have to admit, I’ve never listened to Converge despite all the praise I have heard in the past. This review has got me excited and made me decide to give them a spin. Definitely surprising pick though, given the general nature of the list thus far.
Converge is terrible.
If you disagree with me, you can succkkk my diiicckkkk.
It’d be worth it if I was still allowed to listen to Converge!
Who?
I’m waiting patiently for The Lonely Island
Never really listened to Converge. Now that I am – the music I like, some nice “br00tal” guitar work. The vocals, though, don’t really gel with me
keep listening man, bannon’s vocals are a tough pill to swallow at first but if it grows on you, nothing will ever compare.
Never listened to it, so I can’t really say anything about this choice. I may check it out, but I find most hardcore boring (the new Coalesce, for example… didn’t really dig it.)
1. Prometheus: the Dicipline Of Fire & Demise
2. Death Magnetic- Metallica
3. Blessed Black Wings- High on Fire
4. Ordo Ad Chao-Mayhem
5. Enslaved- Monumension
But I’m probably way off because none of the children who read this site will find any of these releases at Hot Topic.
I’ve seen Death Magnetic at Hot Topic. Just sayin.
and Death Magnetic was not very good either. Did you really like it?
God no.
That was directed toward the goat, but glad to know you didn’t like it either haha. Death magnetic was just a clusterfuck of mediocre riffs.
Ha yeah Metallica and High on Fire, real obscure there!
Mayhem aint that unknown aswell.
You never know, see my post below about our local hot topic (called HMV)
Death Is This Communion is better than Blessed Black Wings, in my opinion.
Emperor should DEFINITELY be on this list. It won’t happen though.
“Ordo ad Chao” is an amazing, original album. I think “Isa” is much better than “Monumension”, so is “Below the Lights”.
Have you heard Deathspell Omega’s “Si Monumentum Requires Circumspice” ?? Now THAT is the best,most influential album of the decade, by miles.
this album is perfect
SO RIGHT!
THIS SHIT IS GOOD. MOST OF THIS LIST IS FOR PUSSIES BUT THIS SHIT IS FOR REAL BITCHES.
The name of that post made me giggle. Just the idea of Richard Dawkins saying, on say the subject of evolution, “THIS SHIT IS FOR REAL BITCHES”
Can someone tell me how this is better than Opeth or Gojira? This is just as bad as hatebreed maybe even worse
c’mon man…that’s just not fair…or a nice thing to say.
as much as i don’t like this album, it’s much more listenable than opeth or gojira, and frankly there’s nothing worse than hatebreed, save possibly earth crisis….
hrmmmmmmmm someones stealing my name>.>
“it’s much more listenable than opeth or gojira”
I’m not sure there’s a strong enough retaliation I can give you here…so:
You may want to have your ears checked…
never listend to gojira that wasnt me but whoever said it put the nail on the hammer this beat opeth? wtf is wrong with this shit i went and listned to them and i regretted it >.>
my ears are working just fine and they have a wonderful ability to filter out techy prog bullshit….
WTF?! Converge?!?! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, you can see why most of the whole american scene is shit post thrash era
TOTALLY threw me off, I was expecting something WAY more mainstream to show at #5. I havent listened to converge, but as everyone agrees with this pick it is definetly on my need to listen to list.
I am still waiting on:
Protest the Hero: Fortress
BTBAM; Colors, hell even Alaska would be great (Love the solo on selkies)
Any record by The Haunted ESPECIALLY if it is the dead eye
Im assuming Crack the Skye will make an appearance as well.
That being said, if the top 5 looks clean and agreeable the list is a success.
No, most definitely NOT A SUCCESS.
What first grabbed me about Converge was how radically different the vocals were. There just isnt anyone else who quite sounds like Bannon.
Great album!
Try out the ’80s band The Accused. Converge sites them as a major influence. Their singer is clearly an inspiration to Jacob.
For the KSE album we were speaking of Best Buy, and I just went today to our equivalent here. Holy shit it has been some time. And holy shit there were stuff I’d never thought possible to see there in my most wet dream, only thing it wasn’t cheap enough. They had Reverend Bizarre albums? Hellsaw?!?!(I don’t like them btw), Satan’s Joker, Sword, Brutal Truth, Bolt fucking Thrower, Sigh, Cathedral, Grand Magnus, Jungle Rot (how is it fucking possible, they’re so underground), Kypck (?????why?), Pentagram and some real obscure shit I’d never thought possible… Surprise of the month.
As for the 5th place well, I don’t know the band but I guess it’s not good since there was like 2 good albums in here Gorilla and Opeth and Ghost Reveries to me is a mixed bag and their worst album.
Yeah, BB has definitely stepped it up in the metal department. I’m almost not embarrased to buy an album there now! Although I still go to the local mom-and-pop instead. Even though it usually costs a buck or two more, I gotta support the little guy.
I typically always shop at the mom-and-pops as well. You can usually find someone that knows what the hell they’re talking about there. Whereas, at Best Buy, you may be lucky to find a fan of Beyonce to help you decide which Deathspell Omega album is best. But, yeah, BB does have an alright selection. I know I was surprised to find Ihsahn’s “Angl” there.
100% agree. Both of the ‘mom-and-pop’ stores I go to have people who know metal there. If I bring an older Behemoth album up to the counter, they usually say, ‘If you like this, you need to check out (fill in the blank)!’ Doesn’t seem to matter what I buy either; they always have good recommendations, even if I’m buying something NOT TOTALLY BROOTAL, like Isis, Jesu, etc. You just don’t get that kind of service at a big-box retail store, and if you do, you’re super-lucky.
Yeah, one of the guys where I shop got me hooked on Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. I never would have heard of them otherwise.
The reason they have more metal now is because it’s somewhat trendy. “Hipsters” have taken an ironic liking to metal, especially Black Metal. Also, many of these albums, such as the Ihsahn album are distributed by Candlelight America, which is HUGE by metal standards. ALso, Nuclear Blast, Century Media, Metal Blade, Roadrunner, etc etc etc. …. you won’t find bands on smaller, independnt labels at Best Buy though, although Candlelight distributes some of that stuff and tags it with the Candlelight label.
I try to go to some new and used story near of where I live. Cheaper, and I found a copy of the original press of Gorgoroth’s The Antichrist for 14 CAN bucks as well as some other rare.
Haha send me some of your guy’s money so I can support the little guy too! sucks being a poor college student!..alcohol/weed or an extra 2 bucks a CD…yeah…haha
Hey, I hear ya man. I remember being a broke-ass college student, working for minimum wage at a CD store / video rental place, and saving my extra pennies for a case of Natty Light and a dime bag. But I paid my dues and am doing pretty well now, so you gotta give some back to the little guy. But by ‘little guy,’ I don’t mean you, sorry. :)
I’m surprised Soilwork hasn’t been on the list, IMO they should be. Also would of liked to seen Darkest Hour, The Absence, Dimmu Borgir, Meshuggah, As I Lay Dying, Strapping Young Lad. 4 of the picks really got me scratching my head like S.O.A.D.& Tool & Deftones & Slipknot. Those to me would fall on the “Hard Rock” / Nu Metal category. As you know assholes are like opinions; everyone has one.
never heard of them, this list need more opeth
Never heard of them? You been livin’ in a hole, nigga?!
I cant understand Converge at all…the vocals kills the experience for me. That being said, I know a lot of people on this site loves em and that they are highly respected, so im sure its a good pick. Last 4 albums will prolly be:
1. Alive or Just Breathing
2. Leviathan
3. Blackwater Park
4. Fortress/Crack the Skye/Palaces
Thats what I think anyways…
Good predictions, although with the way this list has gone overall, you have to throw a nu-metal wild card in there somewhere!
I’m so with this. What a fucking amazing cd.
Wow, fail.
this
The top 4 albums in no particular order
Slipknot- Iowa
LoG- As the Palace Burns
Cannibal Corpse- Kill
Hate Eternal- I Monarch
I would really like to see a Cannibal Corpse album on here.
Although I wouldn’t play Kill in my top 21, I pray that it at least graces this list.
I Monarch definitely should be somewhere on the list. Even Fury & Flames deserves to be on here!
Wayyy to mainstream man, broaden your horizons before making predictions on the top 4…there are so many albums out there that blow these away.
Of course there are. But, I think he is making predictions based on the past picks of this list.
That’s what I’m fukin talking about. Jesus Christ. I mean Mastodon, Lamb of God and Killswitch are good bands but you’ve got to make things interesting and we are finally getting to that stage…please keep the more interesting choices flowing.
What an amazing surprise. Even more Shitcore. This guys vocals sounds like me taking a dump after eating 10 bowls of Cheerios. At this rate I’ll be happy as hell to see Death Magnetic on this list.
Just regular Cheerios, or the Multi-Grain ones? I’d think the Multi-Grain Cheerios would pass a little easier.
Haha! Actually, the wife usually only buys the Honey Nut Cheerios. They’re so delicious it’s hard not to eat a big bowl, but I typically end up regretting it.
Mix in some Honey Nut Shredded Wheat with the Honey Nut Cheerios. That’s the exact breakfast I had this morning, no joke.
Christ, you must have one of those steel colons.
No, if I had a steel colon, I wouldn’t be working more fiber into my breakfast. Shredded Wheat is much higher in fiber than Cheerios. And the fact that we’re having this conversation here is making me LOL.
I just listened to this album because I’ve never heard of this band. My ears hate me now.
Pussy
You say pussy, I say he has taste.
Just not well rounded taste
You either get Converge or you dont. Bannon’s vox arent for everyone. I love this record for it’s sheer hopelessness and fuck-all attitude. This shit is scary!
Exactly. Jake’s vocals are completely incoherent, overly visceral and almost animal sounding. But it’s been that way since 1992. Not to sound redundant, but you get it or you don’t. Plain and simple. And if you don’t, shame on you.
The point of this list is to nominate albums that are the BEST of the century…not those who only a limited number of people “get.” Therefore, whether or not you like it, you have to admit that it has no business being on this list.
I thought this belonged at #1 to be perfectly honest. And not just because I’m a Converge nut. It’s production, as the write up noted, is absolutely flawless. And on top of that, the song writing is diverse, going from fast as a fucking bullet to wading through molasses quite often, and many things in between. Shit, on Hell To Pay it almost gets bluesy. The point is, just because you can’t get over the vocals or the ethos behind the band, this is undoubtedly one of the most important metal records of the past ten, maybe even twenty or more years.
And by the way, you’re whole argument was turned on it’s head when you said it has no business being on this list. That indicates you don’t like it… I fucking despise SOAD and End of Heartache, but I understood on some levels their presence on the list. They molded the landscape of metal… but this album handcrafted the fucking genre as we know it today, even if you think that bullshit metalcore spewed from this… but i’ll save that argument for another day.
This album pretty much changed my life. Everything from Concubine/Fault and Fracture to seminal Converge cuts like Homewrecker and The Broken Vow to unsung masterpieces like Heaven in Her Arms to the omnipotent title track, this is one of the greats in metal history.
Seeing Jane Doe played live was a fucking experience, by the way. Jake broke his hand open on the monitor and got blood all over his face (Chicago @ Reggies in April of 2008).
(PS: I don’t give a fuck about what you say, Balls. I ain’t feeding the troll.)
shit you were you at that show?
I’ve never seen them live, but I do have their ‘Long Road Home’ DVD, which is a fun view.
I wonder how different this list would be if it was compiled by mostly European contributors
That’s easy: In Flames would take all of the top five spots.
LULZ
Probably better…
This list for the most part seems like Americans voting for American metal to me
FUCK YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent album, extremely well written and rich review, I doff my cap, sirs
Polish (Apply rhetoric) a turd (the review of this album), and it’s still a turd…
I thumb my teeth at thee, sir.
Well, this list is doing a fine job of expanding my metal horizons and this certainly sounds like a great album. I’ll go check it out. Thanks MS guys.
where are ‘we have come for your parents’ and ‘everything you ever wanted to know about silence’ ??
They’re in the cut-out bin.
I actually liked the self titled Amen record, reminded me of listening to Black Flag when I was a young fella, ‘we have come’ was poor in comparison
To be honest, I’ve always appreciated Glassjaw’s ‘Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Silence’. The raw honesty in the vocals and lyrics were refreshing at the time, and some of it holds up well still today (especially the title track). But now? Sorry, but they’re a joke.
And I could tell the first time I heard them that Amen are big Black Flag fans, but I’d rather just listen to Black Flag.
Yup, ‘Damaged’ was probably my favourite punk rock record growing up, just didn’t hear that kind of urgency from most other punk rock records at the time, Amen’s self titled came as close as ive seen later bands get, they went downhill from this record on tho
Cept maybe the Dead Kennedys now I think of it
I didn’t know that anyone else knew who Amen is. Well, if anyone does, I guess it’s metalheads.
AMEN were an amazing band.. i guess its not metal… but its still heavier and more intense than power metal…. so does that make it acceptable?
They were okay; I just couldn’t get past the fact that the singer was named ‘Casey Chaos’ or whatever. Kinda like ‘Carley Coma’ from Candiria (although I like them more).
4:Death Magnetic
3:Crack The Skye
2:Blackwater Park
1:Colors
that’s my guess.
Similar lists, would love to see Colors on there, Meshuggah have to feature tho
Predictions for top 4; in no particular order
Obzen
Blackwater Park
Leviathan
Death Magnetic
Yup, I said Death Magnetic, for some reason I have this feeling its going to be on there, records like fortress, colors/alaska, miss machine/ire works palaces/aojb etc wont make it now Converge is at #5 – Mastodon and Opeth are a cert, Meshuggah hasn’t featured at all so I would be flabbergasted if either Catch 33 or Obzen aren’t in the top 4 and as for DM, well, its either going to be that or bloody Iowa!
New American Gospel made it so…Palaces will probably make it.
Clutch
Clutch isn’t metal, or else they’d have four albums on this list. It’s a pity, too… because they’re one of the best bands out there.
I havent seen any slayer yet…. and bury your dead should be mentioned… the list still got some terrible choices though….
Neither God hates us all or Christ Illusion have any chance of making the list
GOD HATES US ALL SHOULD BE ON THIS LIST.
HAHAHAHHAHA.
BURY YOUR FUCKING DEAD *while coin pick moshing*
I hope you’re fucking joking….
just great the album that spawned one of the worst metal trends ever.
fabulous. fuck this list.
yeah, sure… now can you please tell me which song on jane doe contains boring one-note breakdowns or second rate swedish metal riffs or pig squeals or whiny melodic emo choruses or an onslaught of triggered drums and guitars tuned down to the bowels of earth?
dillinger will be in for sure…. calculating infinity i guess.. and obzen… worst part of this list is the blackening being so low down…. killswitch at 6??? no way
Calculating came out in ‘99
What I really want to know now is how many of the people commenting on this list in general are actual musicians – i.e. those who have a significantly greater capacity for understanding that shit music like this doesn’t deserve recognition higher than that of say…Opeth…
What I really want to know is why people arent allowed to enjoy Converge AND Opeth.
Never said you couldn’t bud, I’m merely stating that I don’t believe them to be better than Opeth (higher on the list). This list is all about opinions, and by all means, voice yours.
I’ve played guitar long enough to know that technical difficulty isn’t always the best indicator of whether MUSIC is good. I can’t say that I think this is case in particular falls into this category for me but to imply that, just because Opeth are technically better musicians, their music is better is false.
For example, Cobain may have been a shitty guitarist but there was something else in his music that worked, obviously. Call it the x factor or whatever else you feel like.
That’s odd, considering that Opeth (with the exception of Fred) aren’t very technically (or musically in the theoretical sense) talented. Akerfeldt would have difficulty pulling off a huge shedding solo like some other artists in the metal genre; his expertise lies in other areas, composition being one of them. This means that their music is thought provoking, melodic, and provides a good listening experience – though I do realize that’s not the only thing that makes a given song appealing…
I don’t really care for Nirvana at all, but I will admit that his music was effective. You may want to try defining what you mean by “worked.”
True, listen to Coffins or Reverend Bizarre
I am a musician and have been for 18 years and i like both of those bands. Opeth are great musicians, but so are Converge. I bet the players in Converge could play music as pretty and orchestrated as Opeth if they want to, but i dont think that the Opeth guys could pull off the sheer aggressiveness and attitude of Converge. It is the feeling that Converge conveys through their semi-technical metal/grind/core that makes them special, not just their chops.
I completely agree with everything that you said about the nature of the exclusiveness that Converge have over Opeth in the technical sense, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with whether someone would like them or not. If they could play beautiful music like Opeth does, why don’t they?
I went and listened to several of their songs and was utterly disgusted with the wall of noise that met my ears. You can’t understand ANYTHING they say in the songs (although they have some solid lyrics). I know that metal is all about pushing the envelope and progressing into stuff that no one else has done, but putting up with vocals like that (from a person who obviously couldn’t sing worth shit) is beyond the scope of solid musical composition, which I think that every record on this list should be able to display.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate them – I’d choose this over rap, country, emo, indie…etc. every day of the week – but I don’t think that they deserve to be on this list AT ALL; especially when there’s so many albums that are more deserving of the recognition, i.e. Insomnium’s “Above the Weeping World.”
My thoughts exactly. Just because they MAY be technically superior musicians doesn’t mean they deserve to be above bands such as Opeth, Gojira, even Slipknot (and I honestly can’t hear the technicality over the sheer wall of noise). Ever since I started playing in a band a few years ago I realized how hard it is to form all elements of a song into one comprehensive piece. I’ve also found that technical skill comes much faster than the ability to know what lead part will go best over the rhythm, what bassline best fits, etc. In my opinion Converge refuses to even acknowledge this aspect of making music. There’s no real layering that I’m aware of and definitely no vocal range (which you have to admit is just another instrument in metal).
In the end, there’s a fine line between music and noise. Converge is dry humping the latter.
“If they could play beautiful music like Opeth does, why don’t they?”
Sometimes Ugly is its own kind of Beautiful. Just ask a couple of the girls I hooked up with in college…
You’re on a roll today
“Sometimes Ugly is its own kind of Beautiful.”
Not in this case…
“Just ask a couple of the girls I hooked up with in college…”
*Watches the validity of Bling’s opinion fly away, carried by the breeze emanating from the mouth of the ugly bitch giving him head*
Lord Bling’s mah boy.
And Watty is the new Ziltoid.
Haha thats true Bling, one of your better threads. Responding to the above though, “If they could play beautiful music like Opeth does, why don’t they?” Who knows maybe they can’t. Just cause your able to doesn’t mean you should do it anyway. They obviously realize that other bands (opeth) can play tunes like that and pull it off so they let them. Converge has their own niche, they are definitely a noise band, “I went and listened to several of their songs and was utterly disgusted with the wall of noise that met my ears.” It is not something that is easily digested, but when I first heard a cannibal corpse record when I was 7 years old, I thought the exact same thing.
I think you guys missed my point a bit. I never said that Converge is more technical than Opeth. I actually think Opeth is more technical and more classically trained and beautiful. What i was saying is that Converge’s whole point is to convey a sense of rage, hopelesness, nihility, etc…into their music and they pull that off better than most bands i have ever heard. I would bet that Converge, as musicians, are more than capable or playing or writing something like Opeth, but that is not what they have ever wanted to or tried to be. Bands write different kinds of music depending on what mood or style they want to create. If I am in the mood for epic melodic death metal i listen to Opeth, but if i am pissed or letdown and burned out i want to hear Converge.
I don’t think necessarily think ugly is it’s own kind of beautiful. And dude, Converge’s music is fucking ugly.
But you know what? “Ugly” has as much a place in art as “beautiful”. Just beecause something is ugly doesn’t make it objectively “bad”; the same is true for “beautiful”. If this wasn’t true, then there probably wouldn’t even have metal music. Ugly feelings need to have an outlet, since they have as much a place in life as beautiful feelings.. Picasso’s Guernica? Fucking ugly (IMHO) but what makes it great is the intent behind it. Same goes for Converge.
Colors isnt THAT good. And I reckon Sacrament will be up there.
Did you not listen to Colors?
I own it… it’s not the best. I could namy many albums that I prefer.
Fool.
Holy shit, you guys actually posted a good album. Now if only Ire Works was next…
Hmm, while from the comments I may actually like this, I saw the word hardcore a couple of times. Are they even metal? They aren’t on Metal Archives at least…
Just shut the fuck up with the, “are they even metal?” shit.
?? I just asked a question. I never heard the band, and some people said they were hardcore. As far as I know, it is a top 21 best METAL albums of the 21th century, which means whatever good it may be, if it isn’t metal, there is a problem. Hell, I would put Zombi – Spirit Animal on the list as it’s awesome, but it isn’t metal, it isn’t even rock, punk, hardcore or has guitars, drums or bass. So, my question is: is it metal?
Actually “Spirit Animal” by Zombi has guitars, drums and bass, all three.
No, its not metal. Its toughguy hardcore….macho posturing crap. I asked the same question about “why are they not on Metal Archives if they are metal” And these homos jumped all over me.
More metal than Slipknot and Killswitch Engage, that’s for sure.
I guess, anyways, there enough non-metal bands for the list to loose credibility.
I’ve posed this challenge before and I’ll do it again…
Come up with a working definition of metal then. Otherwise your point is worthless.
I mean, hardcore is clearly not metal and people have stated it metal here, so it was just an assumption. If they had posted a Green Day song, would you argue? And like I said, I didn’t even heard the band.
And you know metal must be the broader genre to exist hence making a definition really hard? I’ll take the challenge, but you’ll have to take part of it too, what is YOUR definition?
My metal definition: A kind of… heavier, more extreme rock. Meaning: the sound is overall louder, more massive. There is more emphasis on the guitars, adding more distortion and giving it a higher volume and presence in the mix. The drums are louder, have more presence and present more emphatic beats. The vocals are powerful, they may be harsh, clean, screamed, the singer usually show his vocals “propulsion” and range. The metal genre is broad, broad enough that some limits may be hard to define due to the leaning toward a non metal genre a band may show.
Ok, my mother tongue isn’t english, hence my difficulty to clearly explain what I want to say, and my difficulty to clearly define what metal is due to it’s broadness. And hell, it’s just is… metal… and well, how do you define rock or punk?
And my point is a lot less worthless than yours, you just bash on people talking, saying things while like not even reading the whole post. You just say I say shit because I think the list is dubious due to a couple of entries.
And by the way, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deftones
“American rock band” rock doesn’t equal metal
Metal is best left defined by the individual, but for the purpose of this list, I believe that the procreators should have defined what they meant by “metal” BEFORE they started the list so as to avoid this exact comment.
Listen to the album, the mix is LOUD as fuck. The vocals are probably some of the harshest you will ever hear, one of the songs Jacob Bannon sounds like a rabid jaguar or something.
And sounding like a dying “rabid jaguar” is apparently something that is preferable by the metal vocalist community?…since When?
Since the majority of ‘metal heads’ on this site appreciate it? I’ll admit, Bannon’s vocal style isn’t for everyone, but it grew on me, just like death grunts, black metal shrieks, etc. Took a few listens, but now I can’t imagine Converge without it.
That’s all well and good, but shouldn’t something be a bit more widely accepted to merit being on this list?
‘Widely accepted’? This isn’t American Idol. Metal is about not fitting in. That’s the whole fucking point.
“Since the majority of ‘metal heads’ on this site appreciate it?” I disagreee. It seems like the majority of the people on this site aren’t metalheads, and are just barely getting into metal. Let me ask you : How many of you people that own this album also own a Venom album? Mercyful Fate? Kreator? Sodom?….Im curious to see the answers. And “own” doesn’t mean that you’ve heard Mercyful fate on guitar hero, or that you downloaded a song off “I tunes” or whaterever the fuck it is.
So you’re more ‘old school’. Big deal. I own albums from all of the bands you mentioned, because I am also ‘old school’. However, I’m a little more open-minded than you musically, that’s all. Plus, I’m not bitching to the younger kids about how old-school I am.
‘You damn kids these days, you don’t appreciate REAL metal! I was listening to Venom before you were a twinkle in your father’s eye! Back in my day, things were DIFFERENT!’
I’m old-school, but can appreciate some of the new-school. You seem to be an old-school elitist.
It’s just that those are classics. I mean, are you a metalhead if you never listened to any Iron Maiden or Metallica? It’s not being old school.
YOU FAIL ME METALSUCKS
They already did, by allowing for Slipknot, Deftones…etc… to make it onto this list.
oh true that
I’m just going to assume Nevermore won’t be making this list. Yeah.
It’s a shame, too, since their their ‘01 and ‘05 releases have been more than competent.
Meh, Godless only had a few songs of note…
i’m not going to say this band sucks, but it’s definitely not my thing…
MY IMPRESSION OF A METALSUCKS COMMENTER: Wahhhh Wahhhh WAHHHHH This band sucks Wahhh Wahhhhh
Thank you. I’ll be here all week.
i picture that post being sung to the tune of “feeling hot hot hot” for some reason…
H20, I couldn’t reply under your post.
First, your definition is fine. I’ll agree with it. Your definition would include Deftones, Tool, Slipknot, SOAD and Converge, just for the record though.
As for your second reply, I read every post I reply to completely. I don’t “bash,” I state my musical opinions quite often. I also, however, point out all the incredibly stupid shit that people say. And, as pointless and trite as it may seem to some, I do it in a vain attempt to better the metal populace. It’s really just an attempt to get people to open up their eyes and quit acting like a bunch of sniveling, moronic twats who act more closed minded than Britney Spears fans.
Oh, and don’t quote Wikipedia, it’s completely worthless for trying to prove a point. give me 5 minutes and I’ll change that description to say that the Deftones are an “African thrash polka band”
I was just doing an assumption about Converge. As for my definition, I didn’t know how to do it. I definitely not see SOAD, Slipknot (well it depends on the songs… but overall it’s rather close), Tool and Deftones as metal, particularly not Deftones. And if you thought (I’m not stating anything, not 100% sure) I’m close minded, you better know I listen to Jimi Hendrix, Gentle Giant, Porcupine Tree, Ramones, King Crimson, Grateful Dead, Van Der Graaf Generator, Goblin and Zombi. All of which are NOT metal. Hell, I don’t even hate Klaus Nomi. BUT you won’t see me listening to any -core and groove crap (I didn’t say I don’t like Converge, I haven’t heard them, and I just don’t only like DRI’s crossover period, their punk hardcore too which I own on vinyl). Oh and The Clash rules.
You’re in love with rock and roll, getting stoned, and Janie Jones
Cheers to Klaus Nomi!
You don’t own meeeee!
King Crimson rocks.
I know nothing about this album so I cant say it sucks or what not. I will say that I saw that at Sounds of the Underground a few years back and they were by far the WORST BAND I HAVE EVER SEEN LIVE. It was a shitshow. Everything was all over the place ( in a bad way). Someone please tell me why I should listen to this album.
You shouldn’t, good that you figured it out now…instead of after you wasted minutes of your life by gracing your ears with their noise…
This band was never at sounds of the underground…i went to every one…what are you talking about?
your probably thinking of the chariot not converge
I was thinking The Chariot as well. Talk about a band with complete disregard for music, their instruments and putting together a stage performance that doesn’t involve the singer spitting on the drummer then breaking his cymbals during the show…disgusting.
over ANYTHING by lamb of god? WHAT THE FUCK!
What is with everyone and this Lamb of God fan mentality?!? I like them, but they are definitely NOT the best thing ever to happen to metal. Just because they’re the only American metal band that really has everyone’s attention right now doesn’t make them better than everybody else. I really think that they should have limited the number of albums from a single band to one….
I do agree however, Wrath is wayyy better than this….noise.
Wrath is meh. Lamb of God deserves, at most, 1 album on the list.
Remember that this is your opinion so stop voicing it as fact. Many people think this is a fantastic album and i happen to agree.
when I feel like masturbating with razorblades in my hands, I’ll remember to throw this album on.
and if people feel that this is a ‘fantastic’ album as you say, they need to wake the fuck up and listen to the steaming pile of bukake mixed with diarrhea that this album is
*wake the fuck up and realize what a steaming pile of bukake mixed with diarrhea that this album is.
its late, typeo :P
They are the best thing to happen to metal in the 21st century though.
i agree man.
this album just plain fucking sucks doesnt even deserve to be on this list
+1
+2
+3
I think avenge sevenfold is top 3.
then you suck
Fuck this list.
Wow, I’ve never even heard it.
And so we give thanks…
Amen.
1- crack the skye
2- blessed black wings
3- death magnetic —ug i know, i know –
4- ire works
Judging by what every ones saying, and the list so far I guess that the top 4 will be Crack the Skye, Leviathan, Blackwater Park, and…
City of Evil by Avenged sevenfold because we are garantied at least one more “screw you” for the guys that made this list
That’s a good point. The industry guys who voted for this probably define Avenged Sevenfold as metal. I’m surprised A7X have not shown up yet.
A7X is actually one of my guilty pleasures. The music isn’t that great and it’s full of cheese, but they’re catchy as hell.
Anyways, when the hell are they gonna post the new Sigh studio report!!?? I want the cover art and a date. And more infos. When Scenes From Hell is gonna be released, it will beat the shit out of any band on the list.
Can’t wait for some more Sigh.
Hell yes man !!! I cannot wait for that album. I love all of Sigh’s albums, and Hangmans Hymn really blew me away !!! Im glad to hear that the band says it will continue in the sound of Hangmans….. but even more extreme, with more aggression and even larger orchestral parts (don’t see how that’s possible ! ) …..sounds like Hangmans… part 2 !!!
Did you catch them on tour last year? I saw them in Chicago and it was might fucking impressive. Dr. Mikkanible is hot as hell, so it didn’t hurt that she was wearing a leather skirt and showing off her all cheeks every three seconds either!!
Yeah, saw them at MDF, I asked Mikannibal for a hug but I bet she didn’t like it as it was after Bolt Thrower. I also took part of the filming for Prelude to the Oracle. The song was thrashier, more straightforward but used some more vivid orchestration that sounded real creepy. Death after Death! Fire after Fire!! Can’t wait.
I’m thinking Fortress, Colors, and maybe Ire Works are coming up.
Fortress deserves it…the others, not so much…
My predictions are…
4. Between The Buried And Me “Colors”
3. Gojira “The Way Of All Flesh”
2. Metallica “Death Magnetic”
1. Mastodon ” Leviathan”
I honestly don’t know if Crack the Skye or Leviathan has a better shot. There might even be both
1. Opeth- Blackwater Park (I liked Watershed more but I don’t think it will appear)
2. Cynic- Traced in Air
3. BTBAM- Colors
4. Protest the Hero- Fortress
Always props to Cynic, but I think it has a snowball’s chance in hell of making this list. But I hope BWP is on here. I also like Watershed a lot, but I don’t think it’s as good as BWP.
If that actually turns out to be the final 4, I would be moderately happy with this list.
1 = Hell yes…I don’t find Watershed to be better though, a very close second.
2 = Meh, I like me some Cynic, but there’s better albums out there, and to be frank, I thought it was somewhat of a weaker release.
3 = No…just no. I saw them live, and I honestly think they should be left off the list, though they’re definitely better than SOAD and Slipknot…
4 = Hell yes, I hated them at first, but I listened to it again and it has quickly become one of my all time favorite albums…very good release.
Nice name. Great movie.
Thanks, I really liked it.
And to Watty, do you mean the vocalist of BTBAM or the whole band? For me the live vocals are terrible but their actual music is awesome. The beginning to Prequel to the Sequel gets me every time.
Gotta love that guitar riff at the start, then the double kick drums
that’s the best top 4 yet
by far the best album on this list so far, surprised to see it here honestly.
This is the best album on this list…light your faces on fire!
I was wondering when this would show up. Definitely one of my favorite albums.
I still don’t like Converge, I just went to give a follow up listen, and it pretty much sounds like mediocre screamo/punk.
Definitely not a top metal album in any way shape or form.
+2
+3
Something just hit me. NOBODY has mentioned Orphaned Land… at all. Or at least that I could see. Mabool is totally top 10 material and it’s a shame that nobody on this site is begging for it.
Which brings me to the question that I must ask… WHAT KIND OF JEWS RUN THIS SITE IF THEY DON’T LIKE ORPHANED LAND??????
LOOK AT THE LIST OF VOTERS…THEN COME BACK.
Decent album, but nothing special…
Never heard this band. I guess I’m obliged to at least try it out now, huh?
The Forefathers of Metalcore, have to wonder if you were to go back in time, like the Hitler before the Holocaust thing, could you kill them to stop the horror of shit-metal that they helped bring about?
This list is unsurprisingly dominated by this horrible shit, I get the feeling you guys genuinely think this awful shit is the new Sabbath, it’s going to influence everything, be this awesome touchstone, and you know.
Not going to happen, in fact, Sabbath was widely hated by the popular press, even The Rolling Stone, dedicated to the “hip” of the day as they are now, only begrudgingly accepted them, a few magazines that were nothings back then(but huge now) gave them positive reviews, and the rest spat on them.
You see that here? No, the press thinks they’re “hip” and “cool”, so they shell out “album of the year” to each piece of shit these bands churn out, the small handful that actually produce something meaningful aren’t going to change the direction of anything or be remembered, man.
I’m not saying it’s the same as back then, like Disturbed is going to be some kind of touchstone because they’re “begrudgingly accepted”, indeed they’ll just likely become a more flexible AC/DC. I’m just saying most of this shit, it isn’t the best, and it isn’t going to be considered the best in the future, just like the other “hip” shit of our time, it’ll die out when the fad does.
The whole -core fad reeks of the same crap as the nu-metal fad did 10 years ago.
Truly.
Converge covering Disintigration by The Cure is fucking amazing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOae_p3r9YQ
I love this band!!! Good list!
WHERE THE HELL IS MESHUGGAH!?!?! Please. for the love of all metal let it be on there. I agree with Leviathan being on there, but not cracke the skye, its so young…
young it may be but none the less an amazing album
Heavy metal * is the 666th element in the periodic table of alchemic mixology making it the heaviest of the metals, in fact the heaviest of all known naturally occurring elements, even heavier than rock. It was discovered in 1964 by the German physicist Max Lucifer, who sold the rights to the discovery to King Diamond in exchange for his soul. It was not until the industrial revolution of the 1970’s that it became important as the primary ingredient in the manufacture of Lead Zeppelins. Coincidentally, when the revolution died down in the 1980’s another technique in Heavy Metal handling was found. This new way to handle Heavy Metal gave astounding results creating a wide range of products, products like : A musical version of Judas’ followers and a brand new torture device which actually gave enjoyment to the victim.
Heavy metal is often blamed for heavy metal poisoning, which can lead to suicidal tendencies in teenagers. It is also one of the sources of headbanging syndrome (along with hard rocks). It has been said that this headbanging disease is spreading all over North America and has made its way to England. These Brits love it, even though their parents are trying to cure it with Scientology, a “medicine” made of pure bullshit that can be purchased at any local Tom Cruise store. The element is mainly found in Norway, Sweden, Germany, England, Holland, Canada, New Zealand and sometimes the United States of America. Especially Finland, where it is found in an almost pure form. It is believed that Finland sits on a potential mine of pure heavy metal, and that the Finns themselves have almost all been mutated into metalheads by it. The Norwegians and Swedes also have been known to undergo mass disfigurements. Lately, heavy metal gained a huge audience in retro-80’s cultures of Eastern Europe (Russia or Poland) and South America (Chile or Argentina),
I lol’d
That was great.
Brilliant!
what the fuck? i never heard of this band untill now. so i checked it out and omg it is fucking awful. this shit is on here above machine head, lamb of god, and opeth. thats fucking retarded.
I think you and I are the only ones on the same page…I am utterly confused by the excitement of everybody about this CD
Can I join you guys in this confusion? Thanks! :)
i think defining metal before the list was created would have avoided any arguments… white pony in def not metal yet some of their other albums are… norma jean o god the aftermath top four….
OH MY FUCKING GOD, i LOVE this list. best album on here so far. such an amazing album, can’t wait for their new album, they are such incredible songwriters and musicians.
i’m beginning to think Enslaved is just too old school to make this list.
No, they’re just too good.
Yeah, this is a noisy HARDCORE album, no riff-tastic metal to be found here. I’d like to see some enslaved, too, but I think the only albums left on the list are overrated “meh” records. But they DID have nachtmystium, so there’s hope.
I am the only one who will truly disown Axl and Co. if they allow Death Magnetic to creep in here?? I’m a huge fucking Metallica fan, don’t get me wrong. But everything after the Black Album is terrible with the exception of a few songs… besides, since when was it alright to pass an Atreyu cover album off as a comeback, even if James Hetfield is writing the music?
If Death Magnetic creeps in, could we call that a “creeping death”?
*rimshot*
i hardly know anything about these except knowing they exist.
just got the album and its fucking terrible…… i mean cmon. all the fucking amazing albums and you choose this hardcore bullshit.
youve missed the whole european metal scene. insomnium, kalmah, bodom? where are they?
better than this shit im listening to
Slayer – God Hates us All ???
Pantera – Reinventing the Steel ???
come on man..the worst album in a band’s collection, regardless of how good the band is, should not be on any “best of” lists. Those albums were barely among the best 10 metal albums of the year for the years that they came out. Supremely average stuff.
finally, an album that i actually love makes the list….. like others, im still expecting some DEP and BTBAM
Hahaha, this shit sucks
this is the first album on the list i still listen to on a regular basis. Converge are probably one of the best live bands you’ll ever hope to see and this record, pretty much changed my life after experiencing it for the first time.
ifucking wish this fuckign site would top emailing me shit. for fuck sake its annoying as shit
It would be great if it would only e-mail you on direct replies to your posts, instead of sending one every time someone posts below you. However, you know you can turn the notifications off, right?
I had actually never heard this album before you put it on here. Whenever I read about Converge the word “hardcore” always scared me away. I just checked it out though, and it’s not too bad for something with such a heavy “core” element. The guitar riffs are pretty wild and the drumming is beast. The vocals are horrendous though, I’m glad they’re buried in the mix.
Jane Doe is a masterpiece of rage and fury. It took me a few attempts to digest the Converge sound. it is, quite simply, startlingly noisy- even for a 20 year afficianado of noisy bands. I listen to this record constantly and it continues to reveal new nuances and details. Anyone who doubts their musicality hasn’t the ear for theory. This is some incredibly complex music. It is easy to hear the noise and just turn off, but pay attention to the overall song structures, chord progressions, christ- the fucking drumming… this is a band of virtuosos that own their sound through and though. It is certainly not a sound for everyone, but their talent is epic.
Summarily lumping bands into “core shit” and tossing them all out is retarded. You don’t like Converge, fine; they certainly aren’t for everyone. To say that hardcore and metal and any of their many hybrid forms are not all relevant to one another is ignorance, be it willful or not.
Hardcore and metal have been two branches of the same tree for a long time. They had not, however, shared communities or fans for years and years, so when the two started to collapse in on each other, there was (and is) a clash. Unfortunately, far too many people seem to think the distinct line between these groups can also be applied to the music. The problem with this is that the music is not necessarily one or the other; the lines get very, very blurry very, very fast. With many of the modern bands, it becomes an exercise in futility to try to separate the “hardcore bands” from the “metal bands” based solely on music alone, so instead people use the scene or community the band comes from as their criteria for categorization. The actual music itself is largely disregarded.
The music Converge plays is heavily influenced by hardcore, and heavily influenced by metal. Lumping them in with all the other bands often derogatorily referred to as metalcore, however, is just unfair. The term is used in a negative way because so many of these bands are boring, uninspired, and derivative–copies of copies of copies. Converge have certainly displayed a great deal more originality than some of the great metal bands held in such high regard by those here shitting on Converge. Though no band automatically deserves the admiration or love of anyone, I’d say they at least deserve some respect.
And Biff Tannen – “toughguy shit”? Bands like Death Before Dishonor are tough-guy hardcore; Hatebreed certainly fit that bill in a lot of ways as well. But Converge? Again, broad, simple categorizations. Try showing a little capacity for nuance and subtlety here.
You make some excellent points. Speed Metal/Thrash was birthed from metal bands being exposed to early hardcore groups like Black Flag and DRI just as much as Motorhead. Hardcore had a major hand in creating thrash. At the end of the first hardcore era, bands like DRI and Suicidal ventured into the “crossover” territory- fusing their speedy riffs with longer heavier breaks and solos. I find it funny that people call ‘metalcore’ something recent when metal and hardcore had long since been fused.
Just because the fanbase were too douchey to intermingle didn’t mean the bands weren’t openly influencing each other. Converge embodies a wonderful fusion of a wide variety of heavy music inlfuences and they have a truly unique sound.
Yeah I didn’t even touch on earlier crossover stuff. Nice addition; I like the idea of throwing the punk/ hardcore influence on thrash in the metal purists’ faces. Thrash – the original metalcore.
I’m just really tired of drawing these lines, shoving everything into neat little categories and proclaiming “This is good music!” and “That is terrible music!” It’s just so ridiculously oversimplified.
I’d actually consider the metal/punk crossover influence thing to go way way WAY back. I mean, in less obvious ways than we’re accustomed to see. What would the Ramones be without Black Sabbath-type distortion? Conversely, what would be of Iron Maiden without punk rock tempos? Metallica without the Misfits? Metal & punk: sparring brothers, but brothers nonetheless.
I have heard the album, and I respect the album, but it’s not quite in my taste. My problem with most hardcore is that it’s all attitude and anger but no good riffs or musicianship, but I still enjoyed the album.
Check the riffs in the verse section of ‘Heaven in Her Arms’ they are both badass and musically complex. No dumb power chords there and try to count that time signature… the chorus switches to a straight forward 4/4 power chord progression ; then the bridge comes in with some crazy start and stop time signature changes. Converge are not writing dumb 3 power chord hardcore. This is an album that works as a whole. The songs have very interesting structures unto themselves, but become that much more intense as they flow together.
finally but it more top 5 material,until the ink runs out should be on here too
meant top 2
I enjoy me some Eighteen Visions (particularly the older stuff), but holy shit would there be an uproar if Until the Ink Runs Out made it on here.
Yeah, but can you imagine how worse it would be if one of their later albums showed up? ‘Obsession’? LOL
If Obsession showed up on here, I might even join in the shit-slinging myself.
I’m one of the few people that doesn’t like converge
I feel so alone
At least go with the popular of the European/ Norwegian metal and give me some Bodom please?
PTES > Jane doe
This album pisses me off.
Not in a good way.
Oh hell yes. Probably my favorite “aggressive music” album of the decade. What I especially like about Converge, and more specifically, Converge in this album, is that they keep hardcore’s to-the-gut emotional impact but at the same time they bring cool, musically-complex ideas from the world of metal. Their last two albums, while they were kick-ass and unique in their own way, veered a little bit too much towards hardcore and they lost a bit of that tight mathy mojo thing they had going on here (probably due to the loss of a second guitarist). Yeah I know that at the time of this album Converge had a ton of hardcore contemporaries exploring similar math-metal territories (DEP and Coalesce are two famous examples) that probably surpass this album in terms of complexity/catchy riffs, but none of them, in my opinion, hit with nearly as much fierce emotional punch as Converge. And the lyrics make this the one to throw on when I get emo over a girl/relationship (gayest comment ever, I know).
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m so glad this album made the top 5. Goddamn, if there couldn’t be a better vocalist and lyricist in metal than Jacob Bannon. Then I wouldnt know!!!! I can’t wait the new material to arrive!! Definetly will be in my top 10.
Great album. Definitely Converge’s most “metal” album. To call Jane Doe “intense” would be a severe understatement. This album is crushing, brutal…every overused adjective used to describe quality heavy albums is fitting for this beast.
Fuck Converge. Comma. Fuck this list. Comma. Nothing. Period.