THE HARD R: DALLAS COYLE ANSWERS MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS
Monday, July 27th, 2009 at 5:00pm by Dallas Coyle
For my last blog, I decided to do a question and answer session with “The Hard R.” I thought I was going to get a couple of questions, but the amount that came in were pretty mind-blowing. The cool thing is you have real questions about the business, and I think I can shed some light on certain things. I never said I’m an expert but I can use my experiences to shed light on some of these questions. As far as my boy Sven asking about Coyle Media, I’ll break it down for you.
I moved to Florida in 2005 and didn’t have a job. I was leaving for tour in about three months, so getting a regular job was out of the question. So, I did some MySpace blasts down there offering consultation. And it helped pay my bills. The great thing was I actually had information that helped other people. The way it worked was I sat in on bands rehearsals and critiqued their songs and tried to get them to focus. Just like we did from Determination to Gone Forever. Most of the bands broke up I think, so I saved them a lot of money by showing them the harsh realities of writing original music. It ain’t easy.
Now, I do consultations (very rarely) a bit differently. I do over-the-phone consults and I do ‘in-person’ consultation. I feel I’ve helped all of the bands that have come to me, and I always tell them there’s no reason to come to me twice. If you don’t get it now, you never will. I never guarantee getting people signed cause I don’t have a record label. Also, most labels are on signing freezes because of the economy. So Sven, open your mouth for eating and close it for listening. I assume you’re a pretty hefty fella.
Post your questions in the comments section for the next blog!
On to the questions.
@O’Connor:
“Dallas I was in a band for a long time (more of a rock band then metal band) and we received local radio air play and had good support at local shows. However, for whatever reasons we couldn’t get anything going outside of Philadelphia and couldn’t figure out how to start getting on any tours. No one wanted to book us because we didn’t have a draw in there area and if we did get a show even if they liked our music it would be hard to get another gig because we couldn’t bring a ton of people.
My question is mainly how did you start the process of moving from local band to successful touring band? How were you able to make that transition and what steps did you take along the way.”
This is a weird question, O’Connor. You’re comparing apples and oranges. Back when we got signed, music was in a much different place than it is now. The internet wasn’t flourishing the way it is now. The way we got signed was kind of the dream way you get signed. We went into the studio to record our first album, which cost 6K. The producer (Steve Evetts) and the guy who mastered (Alan Douches) said they thought Century Media would like it. A week later we got a call and six months after that we were signing contracts. This is kind of how it happens in metal. It’s mostly about the music as much as most would think it isn’t. The most interesting thing about your question is you saying you were in more of a rock band than a metal band.
This is where apples and oranges come in. The rock scene is much different than the metal scene. For us, we played over 150 shows before we got signed, and that was playing on the weekends mostly. We had a small, cult fanbase because of the new sound we had. For your band, being rock, it’s a different kind of hustle. As a rock band you want to sign to a major, not an independent. Independent labels suck for rock, because rock music has a much broader base which means you need more money to promote. My advice to you would’ve been to do a three song demo, make a video for your catchiest song, and start doing showcases for major labels. Rock bands don’t break, for the most part, because of an underground scene. Not these days. Airplay is good as well but the rock scene isn’t fanatic like metal heads so ground roots promotion is trickier. For rock, the package is important so I would’ve focused on making catchy songs and hoping you clicked with an A&R rep.
@Phil:
“So what do you think of this new genre called Bro-Core?”
I have no idea what it is. It should be called Bromance-Core cause it sounds gay as shit.
@DemonicLemming:
“Sorta out there, but do you think so many smaller, maybe not ‘underground’ but lesser-known bands that break up do so because of the difficulty in signing to a label, due to the seeming preference of labels to sign ’safe bands’ that are following in current trends? There have been a lot of small bands that do one or two albums, either as something like a demo release without having any signed label, or one or two albums on a tiny label, and it sort of seems like the lack of backing capital (that I’d assume a larger label could provide, for bigger tours, more promotion, etc) was what killed the band, not the content or actual musical ability of the band. Are a lot of those smaller bands that could have the prospective chance to sign on a big label wary of doing so because of the possibility that the label might start leaning on them to do specific things, musically?”
I think bands break up because of personality clashes more so than not having success signing to a record label. To do music in any way is very hard. Think about it. If you’re on a label and you do a record, two years of your life are gone. With the latest GF album, I just couldn’t commit two more years of my life. All the way back a year ago I was dreading the record cycle for Earthsblood. For a band to break up after two records might mean they can’t endure the third record. People change. Relationships become brittle. Its like being married to four people. It’s pressure. I say it all the time. If you can’t get signed to a label then you need to write better music. Blame yourself before you blame others. Only major labels will lean on you to write different music. They have enough power and money to shelve your record if they don’t like it. Independents don’t have that sort of cash flow. I think any band that has the chance to sign to a major should do it. If you back away from a major deal your shooting yourself in the foot. To sum it up, bands break up because they are sick of each other or the business.
@BiggusDickus:
“Do you still play guitar while you are hanging at home?”
I’m still writing music but I don’t pick up the guitar much. I’m more like a jazz musician. I like to hold off on playing till inspiration hits me. I have a demo right now for a new project but it’s under wraps. For now.
@TurdFerguson:
“If K.F.C. stands for Kentucky Fried Chicken, why do they play sweet home Alabama on the commercials?”
Because the South is incestuous. That’s all I got. :)
@RazorSharpCodpiece:
“What are some of the ways you went about seeking sponsorships so that you didn’t have to pay for guitars/amps/accessories/clothes?”
Tour, tour, tour. We got our ESP sponsorship because we were playing every weekend. Sponsorships are about promotion. They give you free shit so you can get their shit out there. We became popular enough where we had tons of sponsorships. Play a lot of fucking shows then call up the companies on your own (they hate management), and ask for an artist deal which is usually cost prices. Once you’re on tour year round, up the ante to “free nigga, free!”
Have a good week you fuckin’ crazy bastids!
-DC
I have often heard that the money that record labels give to newly signed bands is actually in the form of a loan which they have to pay back or they will get dropped? Is there any validity to this information? If so how does the system work?
Yeah, dude – the advance given to a band to record an album is what’s known as “recoupable.” This means that whatever money the label gives you to record (or spends on you for promotion, marketing, etc) needs to be made back before profits start being seen.
I know I’m not Dallas, but I should put that Music Business degree to use somewhere!
I was in the studio in San Diego where the bands first cd was cut. I picked up a copy of blink 182’s thirteen inch accounting for a completed tour. Now grant you they were making 200 g’s each per night at the time but their expenses were almost 3/4’s of the package.
There are at least 100 contracts that intermingle with any recording agreement by majors. All are to recover money from you. However, the licensing agreement is by far most complicated. Get a book by Jeffrey & Todd Brabec called music money and success. You’ll have a better understanding of how the gig works. And read the contracts..
http://www.promofm.com/MALICIOUS_DISORDER
http://www.malice420.com
Hey Dallas,congrats for this blog,it’s very well done and I’m sure lots of people are diggin it.I sing in a death metal band from Europe,we’re signed and soon we’ll hit the studio to record our second album.Bad thing is that we won’t have a budget big enough to record with a good name and pay for a tour (yeah,in Europe u have to pay for touring,ridiculous isn’t it?!).Do you think is better to save a bit on the recordings or try to get the best sounding album and keep on using the DIY touring ethic we’ve used to tour Europe in support of our first record?thanks!Ste
Dallas,
You’ve written at length about how the metal business has changed drastically in the last few years. I started sneaking into clubs when I was 13-years-old to see whoever was playing on any given night. Most of them had nothing to lose and everything to gain, so they threw it down like it really meant something. All these years later, that’s still the truth I understand. Many of my favorite bands I was initially exposed to by going to see who was playing the local scene on any given night and/or demos sold out of the back of a van. Nowadays, I add any of those bands who are still together (and a few more who later made it big) or the newer bands on my radar to my friends list and I’m nearly instantaneously inundated with add requests from bands whose pages present very little music content and no tour dates. A lot of them use my favorite band’s pages as their personal bulletin boards (obnoxious). I find this paradigm shift to be confusing and slightly disheartening. I’m predisposed to value live performance over the recorded track. My music collection is highly valuable to me, but in my opinion everything comes out in the wash live and that’s what really counts. Road-dogging being the metal standard nearly from the beginning, I don’t feel that’s unreasonable on my part. And maybe it IS a misperception on my part, but I DO perceive that many of the newer generation of bands have a “get-made” work ethic, like American Idol for the metal industry or something — the expectation being that the social networking sites will do it all for them, therefore nullifying the need for getting out there and throwing it all down live.
I understand that touring is expensive, usually uncomfortable (I’m sure you slept in the van enough nights back in the day to attest to that), and often dangerous, but all the same nothing replaces the vitality and immediacy of a capably performed live show; which, I attest, is still the definitive litmus test for our genre. I’m interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Love and Rockets,
Shinaain
Are guitar techs a luxury or a necessity on the road? Thanks.
is it hard for you too windmill? cuz ive heard alot of people complain and it doesnt bother me none
Interesting take, Dallas. Thanks for answering. Never played or made music, so I didn’t realise it could be so stressful, but I guess if it’s a full-time job, it’d be just as stressful, if not more so, than other full-time jobs working with a small group of people….and I know I want to strangle the fuck out of at least one person once a day when I’m working.
What up, wow you had alot of good stuff to say, which brings up many more different questions. Well last time i was hoping you would check out our music to see if it was any good, but know i have a different question. if you did get a chance to listen to us do you think its more metal? or more hard rock. basicaly we are at the stage where we have to find our crowd. We’ve been saying metal all this time, but find that its easier to get played or listened to when we say we are a hard rock band.
Also i really wanted to get feedback from you if you think our music is good enough to get a deal? we have already poured quite a bit of money into the band, and would like to save money by moving in the right direction. i commute 2 hours every wed night to go to band practice, and an hour to get home. Ive endured the “recording process” experience that you mentioned, and have done it twice. Im personally at the point to need to know if we got good enough stuff to continue on or move on to different things.
can you help me out?
thanks for the great column,
Kevin
here is the link to our music again.
http://warped.battleofthebands.com/backstage/artist.php?artist_id=15538
http://www.myspace.com/sagaciouspast
Did you ever find Bugs Bunny attractive when he put on a dress and played girl bunny?
and whats your opinion on toon porn?
Years ago, metal band economics seemed to break this way:
band goes into debt to label to make an album. Album basically serves as promotion for the tour, which is where the band makes its living. The album is lost to recoupment for the label.
These days it seems like no one makes money on either the record or the tour. Has merchandising been the bread and butter of a small to mid-sized metal band (think maybe Borknagar sized)? Has the proliferation of digital recording shrunk recoupment so that bands can actually not be in debt six figures to the label, or has internet piracy sunk that ship (sorry for the metaphor, but you know what I mean)?
Re: My weight.
Not heavy in any sense of the word.
Re: Coyle Media.
I’m glad you responded in some manner to my questions, purely in the interest of full-disclosure. You must understand that it’s hard not to read certain blogs as pure masturbatory self-promotion. There is always a degree of resentment when there’s a feeling like someone is trying to sell me something. Maybe it’s a Philly thing. (We booed Santa Claus, after all)
I hereby renounce my ball-breaking. There’s too many beaches with sand and oceans to swim in to waste time arguing over jack shit. What-the-fuck-ever. It’s fucking beautiful outside. May the sun shine upon you, and may your beers remain cold.
My beer is cold! No problem Sven. I’m just trying to help other artists. To you!
“It should be called Bromance-Core cause it sounds gay as shit” Mr Coyle, you are my new hero
All of this serious talk when one of the first things we read was, “The producer (Steve Evetts) and the guy who mastered (Alan Douches) said they thought Century Media would like it.” Oh, come on… Alan DOUCHES! I want to hear more about Mr. Douches.
Who is the coolest dude in a metal band you’ve met? A lot of people argue that Chris Adler is the nicest guy in metal (I’d agree, I’ve met him twice) but that doesn’t mean everyone else is jerks. Who are the jerks and who are the good guys?
Dallas, you’re right. I’m from KY and have banged my first cousin a few times, but only because she’s the hottest chick to ever say yes to me without the use of chloroform.
Why does a round pizza come in a square box?
This guy is a credit to Metal. If everyone could be this well spoken and educated on what they do for a living Metal would be much easier to defend to the masses.
Do you think you’ll ever attain the wisdom such that you can answer questions as well as Oderus Urungus?
follow-up: that should be your dream anyway, because Oderus is now hanging with the Fox News blonde hotties that you so love
Or not…
why wasnt Dallas playn with god forbid in Denver at mayhem i was there where was he??
Normally, I would let this go. But dude, seriously? Your night table reading:
http://www.metalsucks.net/2009/03/31/dallas-coyle-officially-out-of-god-forbid/
http://www.metalsucks.net/2009/04/02/official-statement-from-dallas-coyle-regarding-split-from-god-forbid/
Do you like SpongeBob?
What’s your religious stance? Believe in a god? No god exists at all? Agnostic? Please share!
What’s your preferred method of home recording? Or is that something you do at all?
why are you so immature? have you always been this way?
What advice would you give to a guitarist who started at 16 and a half but is now 18 and finally started to take this thing very seriously. I finally started practicing like i should and taking some theory lessons and would like to be in a metal band that might even possibly get signed someday. Is it to late to start taking this thing serious? Any advice?
Its never too late Matthew, id say find other people with the same passion as you and start playing. when you find the right chemistry with others that’s when things will take form
well thanks Kevin. you are not Dallas but that’s great advice lol. Its hard to find people to play with in the town i live in is very idk… sports oriented and there are really no people here who like metal the 3 or 4 bands here all all scene crap. It really is a downer and sometimes dosn’t get you motivated to practice when u got no one else to share your passion with. Who knows maybe in a couple years or after college I might have to move and take huge risk to pursue that said dream.
MATT
yeah thats a real downer, what you might want to do is go to your local music shop and check the boards for other people looking for guitar players, and also bring your own flyer stating the type of music you want to play, and what instruments you need and contact info. ask the ppl there if they know of anyone who needs a player.
im sure there are others like you in your area, you just need to find them. Post a quick add on craigslist im sure ull get a response, i bet ull find someone who happens to have a friend that plays or a cousin or even a brother, and before you know it ull have a band.
start now man, start young, even if the band doesnt last its a really good experience. ull probably play in several bands till you find the one that fits you the best.
D,
My lady, her father and I were sitting here watching the Pink Floyd Biography and we started discussing the issue of royalties before becoming torn on an issue. Let me present a scenario – A band is playing a live show. They are not recording the show for DVD/CD or any other form of manufactured distribution. The only money paid to the band is from the gate. If the band has a former member who is credited for writing material that is played during the set, is that member owed any royalties? I assumed no because the band is not distributing that performance for resale and I would not imagine royalties running so deep as to cover when it is played live for an audience, but we debated pretty heavily over it and I knew you’d know the answer.