JUMPING DARKNESS PARADE: EYAL ON BANDS THAT CAN’T DUPLICATE THEIR ALBUM LIVE
Thursday, September 3rd, 2009 at 5:00pm by Eyal Levi
I know you’ve all experienced this. You get into a band. Your friend introduces their music to you, or you find them online, or however it is you discover bands. Their album or songs start to get stuck in your head. You start listening to them on your iPod, in your car, at the gym, wherever. You start reading up on them. You look for tour dates. You get excited because one’s coming up. You go see them. Lights go down. Its go time! AAANNNNNDDDD your dick goes limp, or pussy dries up, whatever the case may be, because these dudes just can’t pull off what you heard on their CDs.
But wait, everything sounds like shit in this club. Maybe it’s the soundguy. Maybe it’s just an off night. Maybe somebody’s mom just died. Who knows? So you give them the benefit of the doubt and you remain a fan. Then a few months later you get a chance to see them again, and same story. Limp dick bullshit. I’ve experienced that soooo much. In fact, I’d say that the majority of bands I’ve heard in this genre give me that feeling.
There are only a small percentage of bands that I think can really stand up to what they put down on CD. It’s not hard to understand why this happens.
Today’s recording technologies and techniques can basically make anything perfect. Pretty much everything short of writing your songs for you is possible. Metal recording for the most part isn’t too off from a dude with a sequencer writing an electronica album. Double bass is programmed in. Guitars are recorded in bite size snippets. Everything is copied and pasted. Clean vocals are pitch corrected to perfection. All drum sounds are replaced with sampled sounds that give them that cannon sound. Layers and layers of vocals are used to make dudes sound like their necks are the size of a grizzly bear’s. I can tell you with utmost certainty that the majority of the “tech” bands that are out there wowing dumbasses who don’t know what real guitar playing is are just revered because of studio trickery. That’s why the albums sound like Castlevania speed death metal on crack with Satan singing and live it sounds like nothing but high end noise and mush with a Neanderthal barking his lungs out. Recording techniques have made bands lazy when it comes to actually getting to the art of mastering their instruments. There are a handful of bands that can pull this shit off for real, and it’s plainly obvious when that’s the case.
Mastodon is a perfect example. That’s a band that keeps it in real in the studio and keeps it real live. And their musicianship is top notch. So is a band I mentioned in my last blog, Opeth. They are the real deal. Live and in the studio.
There’s no mistaking it when a band of REAL musicians get up there. They sound great pretty much in any situation. Here and there circumstance’ll hose them, but they consistently sound amazing.
Back in the day Pantera was like that. That’s why I didn’t get where all the hatred for them came in response to Dimebag’s birthday post. That is a band that could pull off everything they recorded. If you want examples go check some of their live videos on YouTube and tell me what current bands can touch that level of tightness. Some can, but it’s not many and at the end of the day, you can’t judge it by their albums.
Albums lie. I know. I record bands. You need to see the bands live to know what the real deal is. You guys know what I’m talking about?
-EL
Daath always kill it, live or in the studio. Why don’t you visit them on MySpace and find out for yourself?
Prime example Linkin Park. (I know im ashamed of myself)
See ya on the 15th Mr Levi, ill be the drunk dude with the Hammer Smashed Hurtt t-shirt ;)
*the drunk dude in the crowd. (the above probably came across creepy)
Yea bro, even when I was in 7th grade and into Linkin Park I knew live LP really blew.
I can honestly say that the three best bands to reproduce their studio sound for me over the years have been Lamb of God and Trivium and Mudvayne.
+1 for Trivium, doesn’t matter how much the haters hate, they can fucking play.
Agreed. Love seeing them live. Them and Opeth are both high up there.
A band that surprised me were Protest The Hero. They were better than I imagined they would be live.
And i will hate away good sir. They are fucking cocky little ass clowns. Yes they can play, however that doesnt make up for being a 4th rate Metallica.
word, protest the hero tear it up live
When I saw them the singer was utterly off his face, kept missing lines and messing bits up. At one point he grabbed for his mike stand and missed it. Twice.
The rest of them though, pretty damn good.
I saw them live and Rody was solid, he was wasted but he still hit every note. Rest of the band was tight too, sober though.
Methinks Rody has some issues…
Are you guys serious? Trivium can play live? I’ve loved the band for years, Shogun is an incredible album, but they honestly can’t play live for shit. It’s like none of them know who the singer is, Matt Heafy never bothers, he leaves it to the others who then hash it up!
I love them, but they really suck live.
Trivium can play live. One of the best live acts I’ve ever seen behind the almighty Chimaira.
I’ve seen them a few times live and they’re a really tight bunch live.
Chimaira pulls it off live! Sometimes it sounds exactly like the album!
Can’t agree with you on Mudvayne. They have to be one of the more dissapointing live bands. Especially Chad Gray, their singer. Even in their glory days he wasn’t that great live and would be out of breath and winded easily.
Trivium is an excellent example of a band that takes the live musicianship seriously. Love ‘em or hate ‘em they can play their shit live.
YES CHIMAIRA LIVE IS SICK!. Trivium is a very very good live band and Matt Heafy is a very good frontman. What about Machinehead? They are tighter than a 12 year olds vagina. These are 3 bands that if you see live will sound like the album. Chimaira blows most bands away though. Rob Arnold’s playing is fucking incredible live.
chimaira’s kind of boring live. their singer’s talking voice is louder than his “screaming” voice.
chimaira slays live, yes.
and yeah i agree that it was weird that his screaming voice was slightly quieter than other stuff
Chimaira do an amazing job of matching their records. Love them or hate them…they pull it off live, perfectly!!!!!!!
I definitely agree with lamb of god. ive seen them 10 plus times and each time they deliver. Live is better than the albums and thats sayin sumthin….
Slipknot does a pretty damn good Job reproducing their shit Live. Seen em twice, good shit.
You must have seen them in their glory days. Lately, they’ve been pretty bad live and Corey’s voice has gone to shit.
They’re still tight except for Corey. 20 seconds into a song and he’s already out of breath. Sad but true
Nah dude i saw em once in Antwerp, they covered for MachineHeads cancellation and once at Sonisphere in Holland. They Killed both times.
yeah saw em play with machine head in 09.. its still 09 isnt it? anyway they were fucking awsome, but yeah corey was a bit fucked. good night though. machine head were fucking amazing!
Their shows are definitely intense, but I feel like the mixing was really off. The drums and the guitar were all I could hear a lot of the time.
Same actually goes for Opeth both times I’ve seen them. They play their music really well, but the bass and, crucially in Opeth’s case, the vocals are drowned out.
When this happens I would stop being a fan but I might still like some songs, its like that hate the people in the band but still like some of the music thing.
This is why I practice songs over and over again till I get comfrotable with every move.
Lamb of God owns it live
I remember being first skeptical about seeing Gojira live. They have such a huge and heavy sound on their albums I was worried they wouldn’t be able to retain that sound live. Thankfully, my worries past. No doubt they are WAY better live.
*passed
Totally agree with this. I liked them more after seeing them live, and then even more after seeing them live a second time.
I’ve seen them twice as well; first when they opened for Lamb of God in March 2007 and for Behemoth in November 2007. All that’s left for me to do is see them headline. I can only imagine that being a fucking experience
dude u lucker fucker! i wana see gojira so fucking bad! sickest band aye! they cant seem to get there french asses here to australia!
So for Daath do you guys do the same? Just practice shit till you master it or you just complete tear shit up naturally because you guys just been playing so long?
Practice, adjust, visualize, adjust, practice more, adjust, pay attention, adjust, practice more etc. etc. etc.
I agree man, no easy way around it, practice and more practice
I have a question: How many Megadeth guitarists have been able to do justice to Holy Wars’ nylon string guitar lick (02:14) while playing it live?
Hard to really say since they always play it on electric live
right, but execution-wise.
I think the only one who’s done a good job is their current guitar player, Chris.
Other than that, it has been a little hard to watch in the past
I want to see Megadeth play Tornado of Souls live. How do they do?
they kill it live. Just as any other band from the 80s like sepultura, slayer, etc.
there was no pro tools back then, or beat detective, or autotune for that matter
I’d like to see them play it with Chris Broderick. They play the song well but Glen Drover completely butchered that solo both times I saw him play it.
I haven’t been to a concert in years, but the last band I saw, Primus, was dead-on perfect (actually, they went beyond by jamming extensively). Rammstein was always good at recreating their sound live as well.
The people that hate on Pantera on this website weren’t alive when Vulgar Display and CFH came out. Guarantee it. It’s trendy for the groms to hate them.
That is 110% true. I never got into that action on hating on pantera during Dimebags B-day, but it is clear that all the newbies don’t understand what metal was like after Metallica’s Black and Cobain’s misery. Metal was in the dumps because everybody was trying to sound like Metallica and most of the “underground” bands were there for a reason (ie., they sucked). Pantera came along and pushed metal in a new direction (along with a few other bands)–made it lighter, faster–more to the point. Of course, Pantera’s push of the genre is ultimately what allowed nu-metal to develop (vocals aside).
Pantera was great live…one of the most energy channeling bands I have ever seen (because of their connection with the crowd). Slayer has brutal pits, LOG is tight but they lack a connection with the audience the way that Pantera did. I think the show was Pantera, Sepultura, and Biohazard, back in 1994…that was a great tour.
Even though a lo tof what Eyal describes is generational (with the advent of Pro-tools), it seems that there has always been this split in metal. Maybe that is from our punk heritage though. Take a band like Venom (never seen them live). Although they are definitely “true” (I don’t understand the “tr00″ thing, sorry) metal, it is clear from their their recordings that they sucked as musicians. Does that mean that their influence or greatness is any less? If Venom was started in 2006, would they be Attack Attack! (or whatever band you want to put in here)? From what I’ve read, most of today’s biggest metal musicians would pay homage to their influence.
(I don’t understand the “tr00″ thing, sorry)
Neither do I! I lump that in with lol and typing out those retarded smiley faces and smiley face w/ tongue sticking out.
dude you are a true mother fucker, everything beside’s he’s nu-metal comment is a extremley true statement, the most inspiring badass sonsabitches, never got to express thier insanatiy to the emo-goth nu metal everytihng subgenre isfuckinbullshit, dimebag lives witihn very few guitar player’s playing
Yeah dude, I really dig Pantera’s connection with the crowd, especially Phil’s white pride lecturing. Pantera created some truly magical metal, and Phil Anselmo is totally not racist.
Hey Eyal, great post. I’ve always wondered if there is such a thing as a metal band not playing live, but a recording is playing and they are just pretending to play (i.e. lip synching). Because I’ve seen a hard rock band live (not gonna name them), and their last song of the show sounded very perfect and the whole sound was just different, like it wasn’t even being played live. The next day I searched the web and found a whole bunch of people actually speculating if it was live or not. What are your thoughts on that Eyal?
People get away with murder all the time
but they usually get caught sooner or later lol
who? WE NEED NAMES!
I was actually about to mention that myself, I ve been to shows not lately cause Im lazy and smoke to much, but I have been at shows like that where the band plays to a fucking soundtrack. weak
I think Amon Amarth did that. Thier shit was too dead-on, and it went in the EXACT same order that it goes on the CD, they did the first 4 songs from Twilight, then they did a few off With Oden, then some more from Twilight, then some from Avengers.
I’d be suspicious too. It must be hard to play spot-on while constantly circle headbanging in unison.
The Vulgar Video series is some cool shit man, I miss Pantera!
Hmm… forgot to mention, Eyal, your example of Mastodon. I haven’t seen them live, but the clips that I’ve seen, the vocals have been pretty awful. They still do well musically, though.
I’ve seen Mastodon live 3 times. Once they were great. Once they were awful. And once they were just so-so.
Ah… so they’re consistently inconsistent?
When I saw Mastodon they were genuinely awful. Easily one of the worst live acts I’ve eve seen.
Down kills live, their stuff isnt too incredibly complex though. Still good stuff.
Some of my best concert memories are at Down shows. They are a great live band.
I know the feeling. I was going to see an In Flames show. The support was Gojira (A-FUCKING-MAZING) and Sonic Syndicate. I checked SS out before the show, and they sounded like a cookie-cutter metalcore band, so I didn’t get excited since I was going to be meeting IF at that time anyway. But I did catch their last song though. And it was awful. I think those actually were so bad at playing live, that they brought the studio with them, and their whole show was playback’ed. Awful
sonic syndicate was pure shit live. the dudes were totally lipsyncing the clean parts. had to sit through them turds to see himsa and in flames.
Eyal, I’m interested in hearing about the recording process for the latest Daath album. I love the album and how tight it is, but I can’t help but wonder if there’s a significant amount of studio magic done to it? I have tons of respect for Kevin from following him through the Chimaira days and beforehand, but his drums sound so retardedly perfect, the skeptic in me can’t help but wonder. It’s obvious that all of you are amazing players, but I’d just like to hear your side concerning your own recordings.
I regret to say I’ve never seen you guys live (so I don’t have firsthand experience to fall back on), the time you were in my town I had prior commitments and couldn’t make it.
We did a standard amount of punching and all that in but the tightness comes from sometimes taking 24 hours just to nail one riff. We took the time to PLAY our parts correctly rather than have them edited into perfection. Some of that shit is hard man!
About Kevin… during the recording I remember Jason Suecof saying to me that Kevin is like a pre-edited drummer because he’s so precise in the studio. There’s live technique and there’s studio technique and well rounded musicians need to learn both. Kevin is an expert in the studio.
Wow. Kudos. I remember recording drums in my old hardcore band and due to time contraints I wasn’t able to put in the time to get everything 110% (I had 2 days to track 11 songs), but I definitely am aware of the difficulty and the brutal honesty that playing in the studio provides. Yeah, definitely hard.
I reread my post and realized I may have come off sounding a bit like I was accusing you guys, and that’s not at all what I meant, sorry if any parts offended. Looking forward to seeing you guys the next time you come through Canada.
Thanks for your response!
You can’t have respect for Kevin Talley and leave off his Dying Fetus days. That is what put him on the map. HIs stuff with Chimaira (I like that album a lot) is pretty straightforward. Look at when his DF stuff was recorded (almost 10 years ago now?) and listen to the sound quality (it’s shit compared to today’s standards). It is pretty obvious that he wasn’t cheating on that stuff.
I did say beforehand as well. =) I haven’t heard too much of his stuff pre-Chimaira. I’ll have to go back and check it out.
The Dying Fetus material is off the chain. You have to realize that he was not even 20 when he pulled that shit off.
This is true. I was trying to think of bands that are metal that can do what they record live, and what I kept coming to was bands like Silversun Pickups and Rise Against, who aren’t metal at all. When it comes to the top five bands that I’ve seen live who sound the most like their records, only two are inarguably metal, with one who people could disagree with:
1: Silversun Pickups (other than the singer/guitarist getting out of breath by the end of their set, were spot on)
2: The Human Abstract (the arguable one; except for some added yelling bits from Nathan Ells to get the crowd ramped up, they could have been lip-synching when I saw them)
3: God Forbid (Even though it was only a four song set on the No Fear Tour’s San Jose stop, they were perfect)
4: Lamb of God (Again, on the No Fear lineup. I missed actually watching all but the first two and last two of their songs, because one of my friends needed to get taken to the medical area after she was kicked in the head by a crowd surfer
5: Dredg (Saw them with Coheed and Cambria in 2005, and, crap soundguy aside, they were excellent)
As for metal bands, there have been fucking PLENTY that can’t duplicate it. Unearth, who I fucking love, can’t really handle it, mainly because their singer sounds crap live. I saw Dragonforce in 2006 and, wonderful live show and awesome keyboard dance solo aside, they were kinda bad(not as bad as people say, but bad nonetheless). All That Remains (who were actually opening for Dragforce at that show – wtf) were sloppy as shit. Same with In Flames, when I saw them at the 2008 Gigantour.
All that aside, for each crap live band I’ve seen, they’ve got some pretty funny stage banter. Anders of In Flames yelled out near the end of their set, “How are all the kids in the pit? And, how are all the parents in teh seats?” ZP of Dragonforce called Sam a cunt and got the entire audience at the Warfield to yell it at him. And Unearth is just awesome anyways, crap live singer aside.
I like this. \m/
Pantera were using DAT tapes when I saw them on the Reinventing the Steel tour. Dunno if this was just when the Dime was doing his leads but yeah…
At The Gates fucking killed live when I saw them in Montreal last year! Was so not disappointed. I expected the best and they delivered!
Props for the At The Gates! For having done a reunion tour, they fucking sounded better than some of their 90’s era youtube videos I’ve seen. One of the best shows I’ve seen.
Pantera were using DAT tapes when I saw them on the Reinventing the Steel tour.
Bullshit…
Even more rare is the band that sounds better live than recorded. I was never that into Pantera until I saw them live, been a huge fan ever since. Long live the CFH!
Iron Maiden is another band that surpasses their studio albums live.
Totally, I was never a big fan of Maiden until I saw them at Ozzfest. They tore shit up and made half the younger bands look like chumps…
Dude, yes. I didn’t like A Matter of Life and Death, but when they played the entire album live they still managed to kick ass. Watching a bunch of guys in their 40s and 50s run around the stage with SO much fucking energy is really impressive.
I would add Skeletonwitch to that list. Never thought much of “permafrost” until after I had seen them live.
I agree. LoG, Opeth, and Daath are always solid live. There are a ton of good live bands. Clutch is another that sticks out for me. They aren’t technical or anything, but I’ve seen them 4 or 5 times and every time is a rock-solid, fun show.
Well, Clutch is Consistency….and although I love them too, it would take a lot of luck to screw up one of their songs live. The two greatest things about a clutch show are Jean Paul’s fills (or if he does a solo) and Neil’s voice…guitar, bass and any other bodies on stage aren’t really pushing the limits of musicianship.
I don’t think it is fair to compare what LOG does live to what Clutch does. It is like comparing Barak Obama to LeBron James.
Gojira play great live, aswell as Opeth, mudvayne, Static x were all great live aswell…
There is more to this…. without a good sound engineer the band is at the mercey of a single judge… could be some 50 yr old ex country and western recording engineer that has 20 platinum records under his belt but cant mix a metal band to save his life! Then even with a good sound engineer every venue and sound system poses new issues that cause inconsistencies from one show to the next.
That’s why an awesome sound engineer is key. Know any?
I personally like the guy who used to play for Testament. I can’t remember his name, but he’s producing the next Within Chaos album.
James Murphy?
Are you talking about live sound engineers or producers?
I’ll have to check that one out just to hear the badass production. I’m a sucker for top notch studio work.
Daath is an awesome example of a band that is incredible live, they were the best part of the conquer and curse tour, Goatwhore was just as good as well. But one band that really sucked Live that night was Abigail Williams, The vocalist was drunk of his ass and some people already told me they were going to suck from experience, pretty sad since they were headlining
Static X live is good. I saw them back when in the Wisconsin Death Trip days, then again right after Start A War came out. Fucking badass both times. But in my opinion the best LIVE band is GWAR. Even once you get over their stage show and carnage, they sound fucking amazing as well!! But that’s probably because Gwar ownes all …
I am still far too new to metal shows to comment on this particular phenomenon, but I have seen the opposite case, where a band rocks you like mad live, and then you get to listening to their studio recording and it’s all so clean and processed the soul has been taken out of it. That, in a way, is more disappointing. Of course I know people here have no love lost for Korpiklaani but that was my experience of their performance. I have little interest in the studio output, they are a live band to me.
+1
that was my exact experience with Early Man.
Yeah…being able to pull off studio material live is crucial, but what’s also equally important is creating an intimacy with the crowd and basically putting on a great, entertaining show. I mean, the bigger the band gets, the more they have to go beyond simply (ok maybe it’s not that simple…) replicating what they’ve done in the studio. I remember Randy bitched about something like that to Mark on the Killadelphia DVD.
Maybe I missed it, but I can’t believe that no one has mentioned Slayer. Always consistent.
Bands that suck balls live: System Of A Down, Danzig….I’m sure I could think of a few more if I really thought about it.
The age of the people on this site really shows. But I can’t hold that against them. I never went to any shows in the 70’s or 80’s and I pretty much stopped going to any metal shows (except Slayer and a few festivals) after 2003. If you haven’t been to a Pantera show (from CFH through Far Beyond Driven), then I don’t think you have much perspective on nailing it live. Eyal is right to give props to Pantera but this isn’t a “Best of” list.
Saw Pantera at ozfest 97. Amazing show and the crowd in the grass seats would not stop tearing up the sod and throwing it around. it was a giant sod shit-storm…and it was an amazing experience. just wish could have been closer.
Yeah SOAD is really terrible. Ive seen them twice too so it was no off day!
Napalm death blew. most disappointing day ever. But I have been to hundreds of shows and for the most part the majority were worthy of my ticket money. for whatever reason the black metal shows I have been to have been outstanding and I’m really not a big fan of bm.
Saw Meshuggah, Cynic and The Faceless earlier this year, and all three of them pretty much nailed it. I was most impressed by The Faceless, whom I’d never listened to before that. I went and got “Planetary Duality” the next day. Pretty raw CD, but excellent musicianship and some interesting things going on.
The Slayer/Morbid Angel/Pantera show I saw in 2001 is another good example of multiple bands on the same bill nailing it.
Others: AIC (not with Layne, unfortunately), Opeth, Queens of the Stone Age, Stone Temple Pilots. Doesn’t necessarily count here, but a good orchestra will never let you down, either. I’ve been especially blown away by soloists I’ve seen with the Minnesota Orchestra.
QOTSA were hands down one of the best live bands I’ve ever seen. Each member of the band brings so much to the table, they relate to the audience, they have a sense of humor, and they nail every one of their songs. I’ve seen them play for three hours straight, kicking ass the whole time. They ended with Song For The Dead and everyone went apeshit.
I was waiting for Cynic. I’ve seen them twice now and have been blown away both times. I don’t know if it’s just cause Paul does vocals and (lead?) guitar that makes me so amazed or what…but they were spot on both times.
And yeah, I was gonna say At the Gates as well…everything sounded amazing when I saw them in Chicago.
Agreed with the comments on Gojira. Not only are they technically stellar on CD, they are also amazing live. You can see live clips on YouTube from their DVD where they even put a camera pointing to the bass drum pedals, no fakery there…tight playing all around. Opeth is also pretty consistently good, I’ve seen them stumble, but never for long. Not metal but a band like Porcupine Tree that has heavily textured albums are really great live, but then again a lot of prog bands are, prime geekery.
I saw Gojira back during May in Manhattan. I was happy that they sounded a LOT like they did
on their record. They fucking ripped it up. Hearing Heaviest Matter in the Universe live was nice too.
Eyal,
A lot of people don’t like Dimebag. Some because he left Pantera, some because they did not care for his music, and some because they simply don’t like redneckery.
My point is just this. I’ve been watching this media blitz praising the hell out of Michael Jackson and ignoring the fact that for a significant portion of his later life he was a pretty reprehensible human being. So we all know this “don’t speak ill of the dead” maxim but sometimes when applied to someone I viewed as a douchebag it just sickens me.
So why all the Dimebag hate? Simply put his death at the hands of one of his own moronic slobbering fans does not get him a free-respect pass. I never gave two shits about him while he was alive and today I still don’t.
Hell I never respected Tupac and that didn’t change after he was shot either. Death is inevitable. This does not mean that one day everyone will be worthy of respect. Millions of people die every day and Dimebag was one single musician who entertained primarily for rednecks and not for any kind of positve reasons either. Basically he whipped ignorant fucktards into a drunken misdirected violent frenzy and speaking pretty literally that’s all he should be remembered for.
On flip side I think it’s cool you like Mastodon and Opeth because I find them both amazing. Crack the Skye IMO is probably the most amazing record made in the last twenty years. I can’t think of anything Pantera had ever done that can even come close to that record in any sense, musically, production-wise, lyirically, theme-wise…..really were Pantera anything more then Hillbilly panderers and is his legacy really anything more then that? Let’s be honest here and quit the fuckin hero-worship. Let the drunken slob rest.
Really?
Pretty much. I can understand paying respect when he died. I can understand silencing the
hate for the sake of mourning ok. What I don’t dig is this expectation that everyone is
going to show the guy love every twelve months regardless of whether we ever
actually gave a crap in the first place.
Was he a great guitarist yeah. Do I agree with anything else he stood for in life. Pretty
much no. There are real heroes that die ever day and get no mention. WTF is so
special about this guy I will never know.
Aren’t you the same stain who said he’d never heard of Dimebag until after his death? Doesn’t really give you much credibility.
By the way, I have a college degree and work in a white collar job, so I don’t really fit the “redneck” label, and I have liked Pantera since 1983.
Whilst i disagree with the whole redneck matter (We’re metal fans, not emo/scene/whatever fans that give a shit about image) I’ve always thought that Dimebag was a hugely over-rated guitarist. Sure, he was good, but was he really as great as everyone makes him out to be? I really don’t think so. All of his solos were the same with the huge abuse of wahwah effects and his whammy bar. He was good, but if it wasn’t for the way in which he died, i don’t think he’d be worshipped the way he is today. He’s a martyr.
I didn’t know his name but I still heard his guitar playing a lot growing
up.
Dime did lots of metal, from a guitar playing standpoint & attitude standpoint, from lots of standpoints. Did alot of positive stuff too. Go watch Pantera 3 & try harder next time.
So whats your excuse for those of us who “hero worship” Randy Rhodes, or Stevie Ray Vaughan?
I’m not putting down hero worship in general, just in this particular instance. Besides that I
think it’s laughable that you imply Dimebag was in the same class as those other two.
” Millions of people die every day and Dimebag was one single musician who entertained primarily for rednecks and not for any kind of positve reasons either. Basically he whipped ignorant fucktards into a drunken misdirected violent frenzy and speaking pretty literally that’s all he should be remembered for.”
Considering this statement makes you an ignorant fucktard, I am really suprised you don’t like Pantera.
touche
OK now that you are done being witty can you expand on that or is the one-liner all you
have.
Pantera Haters are just scene kids who shop at hot topic and think iron maiden is a infomercial for a household utensil.Im proud to be a redneck!
anybody who compares tupac and dimebag are truly ignorant and should keep their replies to threads that better suite their intelligence.For instance “which metallica Cd is better St.Anger or re-load”, “should i buy a tight pink shirt or a new pair of Etnies”, “who’s better at Guitar Hero”, “Did milli vanilli really lip sync” or “should i buy Windows vista or XP home edition” you know things you know about? and understand.
Peace,Love and Alcohol’
Your resident redneck, Drunk Bob
OK guess you got me.
Not at all dummy. Im an adult that likes music. Im not in any highschool
bullshit clique.
Making a blanket statement about how all Pantera fans are redneck fucktards is the very definition of ignorance. While they are certainly plently of “rednecks” that listen to Pantera, there are plently of people who do not fit that mold that love Pantera (Eyal and the guys who run this site just to name a few). It’s like saying all black people who listen to gangsta rap are criminals.
As far as Dime goes as a person, he had a reputation for being one of the nicest guys in the industry. Far from the hateful dick that you try to make him out to be.
As for Crack the Skye, it does kick major fucking ass.
“Making a blanket statement about how all Pantera fans are redneck fucktards is the very definition of ignorance.”
C’mon did you REALLY think I didn’t know that some Pantera fans are
not rednecks? I’m not even making him out to be a douche….just trying
to be a counter-point to the people acting like he’s Jesus.
I listened to crack the skye at least four times the day I got it. I’m
not even a Mastodon fanboy. I heard some cuts off Blood
Mountain and unfortunately had never heard Leviathan but
holy shit that album amazed the crap out of me.
Leviathan is way different than Crack the Skye, much heavier, but equally as great.
I could probably say they are really close to being equal. It helps that
I just listened to both of them for the first time in a week so theirs
no nostalgia here. Between the two though Crack the Skye was
far better to me. Leviathan still rocks really hard though.
I would just like to say that I am not, and have never been an ignorant redneck. That being said, I’d also like to bring up your statement about “whipping fucktards into a violent frenzy” … I’ve never done that either. However, I am huge fan of Dimebag. He did his thing, and you either liked it or you didn’t. You didn’t like it, I respect that. But don’t go lumping all his fan’s into some lame category just because you think it gives you a pass to stand outside the box and criticize. That’s all I’m saying.
Well c’mon man Pantera is the NASCAR of metal. Yeah every now and then you get a
Barack Obama but were talkin about like 1 percent here lol.
Im getting back to watching the game.
gimme a fucking break. the nascar of metal??? pantera were THE force in metal in the 90s. if you’re under the age of 20, look them up. they were incredible. and i’m sure in 4 years someone will say the same about mastodon. just a bunch of drunks who rip off pink floyd concept style prog rock. get real.
I’m not out to hate/bash/talk trash here – I just want to say that I’m really surprised on your perspective of Pantera fans, and I guess Dime fans… possibly the history of the time period of metal.
Most people that I know who are fans of Pantera I wouldn’t classify as redneck or any derogatory connotation of the like (ie: inbred, dumb shit, fucktard, southern hick, whatever). So no, I (and I’m going to go out on a limb here and speak for “most people”) wouldn’t call Pantera the “NASCAR” of metal, at all. I would agree even less that 1% of all Pantera fans (and I’m speaking of people who were fans back when the band was in it’s heyday) are intelligent, free speaking, and free thinking – from what I have been witness to it is considerably more than that.
Someone totally correct me if I am out of line or wrong, but my memory serves that Pantera’s smash on the music world was very similar to (albeit with much less mainstream impact) that of Nirvana. When Nirvana hit, everything that was popular at the time was suddenly TREMENDOUSLY less important, cool, and meaningful than it had been prior to Nirvana’s “arrival”. When “Vulgar Display of Power” hit, my memory serves me that it was another one of those moments where you knew music had just completely changed, and all those contemporary albums you were listening to just became less of a big deal. To me, that’s exactly how you seem to be expressing Crack the Skye – and that’s something I’ll totally agree with you on. It’s way less readily imminent and visible, but we’re also exposed to WAY more music in today’s world, and everyone takes the time to devour and formulate an opinion. You’re not subjugated simply to MTV, whatever rock radio you’ve got, magazines, and the tapes or CDs that one friend of yours who always seems to be discovering new bands and you have no idea where he’s getting them from is giving to you.
So, someone tell me if I’m way out of line on that. Didgery, as well, I’m not denying you the right to feel the way you do about Dime. Your opinion is of your own. I just don’t see where you’re pulling your views from, and therefore can’t agree with them myself. No DVD, magazine, TV show, concert, group of friends, or metal fans I have ever met seems to back up that Pantera’s bread and butter was rednecks, and even if it’s an exaggeration – that 99% of their fans were rednecks.
That being said, I think it’s cool you’re airing your opinion on Dime, and it’s cool we get to have this discussion.
You are giving him too much ground on Crack the Skye. I just don’t think Mastodon and CtS will come close to what Pantera did–it is dangerous to pretend that they are similar in any way. Music is different–pantera was going up against a Metallica-dominated industry. Mastodon has been around too long, changed too much and CtS is not meant to reformulate metal. CtS is meant to reformulate Mastodon so they can break through to the mainstream. If CtS is this generation’s Vulgar, then we’ve got problems. It may never be possible to have a “Vulgar” moment again due to the decentralization of the music industry (illegal downloading).
I agree with everything else you say. Pantera had its redneck following but it also had a lot of non-rednecks (they were not just popular in the South) and even non-white fans (some of my black friends were in to them….they gave up on phil and the band around 1997 though–when he started talking shit).
I don’t think you can hate on a band just b/c some of its fans are idiots. How many white power kids are into Metallica or Slayer or LOG or Chimaira? Should I stop listening to those bands because some hick with a rebel and nazi flag listens to them in his basement on Friday and Saturday nights?
I have to admit I never looked at Phil the same way again and it prevented me from ever buying a DOWN record. I still am sad that Pepper gave up on COC for his Down job. COC had some shit albums but Deliverance and In the Arms of God show that he is wasting his musical hourglass playing with Phil. On top of it, he can sing a lot better than Phil too. From the little of Down that I’ve heard, Phil has never come close to anything as great as Pepper’s voice on Deliverance.
lol NASCAR of metal. I thought that was pretty funny. +1
I don’t want to get into it, but just to put your comments in perspective, how old are you?
This may just be more generational than anything else. If you grew up in the 1980s, then your world was GnR, Metallica, glam and thrash bands. Pantera did change everything and if you were born after 1985, then you can be excused for not understanding that.
You are right about the rednecks, but that should mostly be ascribed to Phil and his comments. Please show me some racist or redneck rants by Dimebag?
I’m a northerner and have a pretty much stereotypical view of the South (she shall rise again), but that does not mean that all Southerners are inbred hillbillies. If you want to hate on Pantera for being redneck then direct your energy to the true imbecile in the band, Phil–not Vinny Paul or Dimebag (I don’t know if Rex even has a brain at this point).
So, again, how old are you?
27
So in 1990 you were 8 and I was 12. That is my point.
The generational divide must be somewhere between there. I have a younger brother who is the same age and he and his friends were also immune from the Pantera bug (even those that played guitar didn’t like Dimebag).
Like so many things in our shared culture (eg., the Sixties), this is useless generational warfare. The only thing you can do is go back and study your history to better understand the time period you are criticizing.
“Pantera was going up against a Metallica-dominated industry”
Yes, and when Remission came out……all the way up until now…..Mastodon has been going up against a metalcore, deathcore, and whatever else-core-dominated industry. As much as I dislike 90s Metallica, that metalcore shit is even worse. Mastodon ARE accomplishing something very similar to what Pantera did: They’re bringing something new and completely original and fresh into a stale mainstream. And they’re doing it with each album they release, because each one is radically different from the one that came before it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they release a Mastodon-style brutal death metal album next. CtS was not an attempt to break into the mainstream, they’ve been pretty much in the mainstream since Leviathan. That’s honest guys making honest music, just like Pantera.
Back when Dry Kill Logic first came out, they were on tour with Fear Factory, Spineshank, and a band called No One. I went and saw this show at the Masquerade in Atlanta, GA. Fear Factory, Spineshank, and Dry Kill were three of my favorite bands at the time, and I was impressed as hell with No One’s live performance. Dry Kill was the second band to go on and No One had amped up my energy for them. I was ready to thrash around and beat some ass.
It was in the middle of their third song when my two buddies and I decided to go to the fucking bar and sit down. I was so god damn disappointed. It was a horrible set. The drummer couldn’t keep time and the guitarist was sloppy as hell. The vocalist was in key about as much as an American Idol reject. I was pissed.
I didn’t give up though. I waited a while and they came back around on another tour, this time at Hi-Fi Buys. Nope. Same suck ass sound. I was so mad that I all but gave up on the band. I still listen to their CD’s, and their most recent was pretty sick. I am going to give them one more chance if they manage to come through (if they haven’t broken up) and if the third time is just as bad as the previous two…. I am done.
Another band who SOUNDS just as good live as they do in the studio is GWAR. That band is fucking monstrous. If any of you have a chance to check them out, do so…. You will NOT be disappointed.
Right on, GWAR rules. They can play any style, anywhere, in big fucking latex costumes! That’s disappointing Dry Kill Logic sucks so bad live, I liked some of their songs. Pretty basic stuff from what I remember too.
OK, EYAL, CHECK THIS OUT:
its a coincidence you write about this, cuz my band just got finished recording our 4 tack ep. I was shocked to see the drum editing process[im the drummer] and to learn that the vast majority of metal drums you here today on CDs are ALL TRIGGERED. Not just double bass, but toms, snare, everything but the cymbals. Everything a drummer does while recorded on their acoustic, miced set is converted to triggered samples from music software such as cubase. Then, “quantification” is used to place your drums in a metronomically pleasing spot on the board, aka, taking your drums and converting them to drum machine perfection, which alters the natural feeling you put into your sound.
I have used triggers on my double bass before [alesis dm5] but to align your hits and parts perfectly in drum editing? Why even have a drummer? Luckly, I talked him out of most of the :”quantification” and got back my original sound. [ps- if youd like to hear me, go to http://www.myspace.com\spectorsofsin]
it’s quantization, not “quantification”. And the engineer can only do it if you let him. And chances are, he’ll only try to do it if your meter sucks. Also, the word your band is searching for is ’specter’ or ’spectre’. A ’spector’ is either a funny-looking bass guitar from the 80’s (see kip winger), or a funny-looking record producer/murderer (see phil spector).
1st of all, fuck you, i made a grammar error in quantization. big deal. 2nd of all, I can spell spectres how ever I want to. Fuck, take a look at megadeth and metallica. Those arent even words. 3rd of all, you didnt record with the asswipe I did, saying all engineers are alike is bullshit. And lastly, I DID tell him to scrap the “quantization” after I heard the robotic, flavorless affects it puked all over my drums. Do you take pride in the fact that you THINK you know everything?
yes!
i agree. we argued about that when we recorded. the compromise was triggering the kick drum. “why even have a drummer” you’re spot on. once upon a time there were no triggers and drums sounded huge. wish we could get back to that.
Thank you. We are a rare breed in todays metal drumming world. I hope this computer drums trend is at its way out.
slaving through summer slaughter last year for vader wasnt worth it for the ammount of tremendous shit i had to put up through to get there whitechapel blew ass live and so did half the other bands even necrophagist seemed to be less than average which was odd considering the other 3 times i seen them they slayed so i was dissapointed greatly >.>
A band that fits interestingly into this issue is Meshuggah. Not sure if you’re into them Eyal, but their Catch 33 album uses almost all of these studio techniques you mentioned (completely programmed/sampled drums, guitars recorded in tiny pieces), but in a more intense and purposeful way than lots of these other metal bands…. Seems like many other bands use these techniques to cover up mistakes, put bandaids on skill-cancer, and generally make people sound better than they actually are…whereas Meshuggah wanted it to sound like an unstoppable fucking sauropod of hypnotic brutality – which it does. And any braying jackass who has ever seen Meshuggah live can honk to the fact that they fucking DESTROY EVERYTHING PERFECTLY when they play. I have seen those chickenfuckers live ~10 times since 1998 and everytime they make me feel like I haven’t yet and will never accomplish anything in my life. This winter in NYC, I got a stomach ache when they hit the second half of Lethargica.
Good call on “Catch 33″. I’m definitely in the minority on this, but it’s my favorite album of theirs. I’ve only seen them once (earlier this year, with Cynic and The Faceless), but they killed. Unbelievable.
Yeah, most people gasp when they here that the drums are entirely programmed, but Haake has gone on record saying even if he uses Drumkit From Hell to lay down parts, he’d never program something that he couldn’t reproduce live.
He’s straight up amazing. That whole band is.
I know a lot of people don’t like them, but Agoraphobic Nosebleed is another group that uses programmed drums and studio techniques to accomplish their unique vision, rather than cover up mistakes. They’re a lot more silly and less serious than Meshuggah, but still I thought I’d bring that up.
eyal, i agree with you regarding bands who can’t pull shit off live. that’s why i don’t really play live. and that’s why it’s so embarrassing when i do, but i really am kind of curious as to what your stance is regarding using studio trickery. are you altogether against it entirely or is there perhaps a limit? because personally, i don’t see anything wrong with using what you have to improve the overall sound of your album. if people want to double, triple, quintuple their guitars on a record, that’s fine with me. i mean, i recorded 13 tracks of rhythm guitar for one song once, just because i could.
also, what’s your take on using backing tracks live? not for anything like, rhythm parts or leads, but like say you have a symphonic black metal band or something, and they happen to use backing tracks instead of using a keyboardist or whatever, do you think that’s nonsense too?
An album is an album and live is live. You have to do what you have to do to make a great album and the same goes for being a live band. I’m all about using all tools available to make a great record however when those tools are used to create an illusion about how great a band really then it starts to bug me. As far as backing tracks in that context go… don’t bother me at all. Sometimes 5 or 6 people don’t have enough limbs to pull off all the music that was written. Its one thing if some one is lip synching, but if its just parts you can’t physically pull off because you don’t have 4 arms then cool!
Auto-Tune has caused me to doubt a lot of what I’ve been hearing. I’m not really sure how
to approach the issue because for the most part technology is good and it will
continue to progress which in a general sense is also good. Still from the musician’s
perspective it’s easy to see why it would cause anger. It’s almost like if someone could
download the knowledge of twenty years of Kung-Fu training directly to their brains
ala-keanu reeves style and how would that make a real Kung-Fu master feel. Obviously
pissed off.
Anyways where is this all going? At the end of the day a vast majority of people view
music as a buisiness and it is this idea primarily that has driven this result. Consumers
care a lot more about what they are hearing then the work that went into creating the
sound. Unfortunately I don’t see this changing. In the end it is only musicians themselves who
truly apreciate musicianship.
I guess what I’d ask you is what you see as a realistic solution to this “problem.” I can
honestly say I can’t think of any. Personally I’ll allways apreciate creative riffs
and song-writing but I also apreciate studio work. At the end of the day you are making a
sound that people will pay to hear. If technology allows for a better way for the
sound to be created that is the natural course it will take.
Does it feel like auto-tune is to music what steroids is to baseball? Sucking the soul out of
something we treasure in our memmories? Actually in a way yeah. What exactly is to
be done about this though? That is the million dollar question.
I don’t think so. Of course, in every genre of music their are money hungry people who want all the profit with little work done. But there will always, ALWAYS be musicians who work hard to bring their musical ideas in to creation.And if there ever comes a day when a computer is able to make better music than musicians so be it. But I highly doubt that music would contain the emotion that runs through all my favorite music. And auto-tune ain’t that bad. I know of one band (not metal) that uses auto-tune creatively and for added effect.
I wasn’t talking about the voicing modulating “vocoder” part of
auto-tune but the part that corrects any faults in singing a song.
The effect of buisiness on music can be summed up as a super
performance enhancing drug with horrible side effects. Clearly
the competition and huge cash incentives most have driven a
great deal of innovation. In many ways beneficial, it still has
resulted in our current pet peeves. I say you take the bad with the good
and recognize that this shit was never meant to stay the same forever.
Auto-tune is a fucking abomination. Period. I say that as and engineer and a musician. If you can’t pull off your vocal part, write a simpler one. If you can’t pull that one off, go back to the woodshed and don’t come out until you’ve redeemed yourself.
Auto-tune is a fucking abomination. Period. I say that as an engineer and a musician. If you can’t pull off your vocal part, write a simpler one. If you can’t pull that one off, go back to the woodshed and don’t come out until you’ve redeemed yourself.
reel to reel man. that kills all the losers in one fell swoop. CROM! I use a damn boss br8. shit. Aint more live than that. I cant adjust shit really. ha ha.
Bands that I have seen in the last year or so that killed it live – Faith No More, Opeth, Sigor Ros, Cynic, Mastodon, Eric Mongraine (yes i know he’s not metal, great guitar player all the same), Nine Inch Nails, AC/DC, Janes Addiction, Dillinger Escape Plan, Between the buried and me
Bands that induced a flacidness in my pants – Genghis Tron (sound was terrible, not the bands fault), Bob Dylan (homeboy needs to wrap it up, at least playing live), Metallica – between Hetfield’s vocals and Hammet’s vibrato I thought i was going to shoot myself; and I’m a huge fan of old Metallica; plus I’m one of the few who actually liked the new record
Oh and Eyal; come to Ireland like a good man – I’ll buy you a nice pint of Guinness
Wow, no one mentioned Machine Head? Best live metal band ive seen. Perfection every time. Nile is another one, amazing! They pull EVERYTHING off live. Dying Fetus as a 3 piece… jaw was on the floor, nailed it everytime. And of course Tool. Best concert ive seen.
“Tool. Best concert ive seen.”
x 2 for me.
King’s X is by far one of the best live bands of all time. Along with Rush, Tool, etc.
I have witnessed such phenomena live as well. Sometimes they sound horrible or just a little off. Sometimes it’s not that they don’t sound bad, but the performance is awful. I’m literally watching sticks play guitars. What the fuck? Yes technical skill is a must but if you can’t get amped and amp your crowd, your not doing your job. Also, Eyal, I’ll be seeing you live on (finally) Jan. 29th with Epica, a band I personally know can rip the place up.
depends on the venue and its acoustics of course, small-large, indoors-outdoors but children of bodem was jus bad in general. fear factory cant get a crowd goin for shit, playyyyyyed out! they covered CARS ?????? I tend not to see bands that would waste my doe. GOOD- hatebreed, the KNOT, L O G, chimaira, slayer, disturbed, ministry was my first. tallica and sevendust. PANTERA !!!! soulfly and morbid angel were moderate.
MACHINE F&CKIN HEAD!!!!!!
I seem to be the complete opposite. When I go see a band live, the last thing i want to hear is a dead-on replication of the album. If that’s what I want, I’ll stay home and crank the CD. I hardly ever go to shows anymore for that reason, the only bands I will see live are bands that put a little extra into their live show, jam out, extend the solos, try new arrangements, anything to make it a unique experience for the audience. The last show I went to was Opeth, and even though I consider them my favorite band, I still left halfway thru the show because it was just boring. Now, a band like Tool, my other favorite band, I have seen about a dozen times and i would see a dozen more times because they always throw something different into the mix.
I look at it this way: most of the tools and other affects orchestra keys, sequencers, programming, those affects are mostly used to create an atmosphere within the music. Bands that have done these things in the studio have pulled it off live and succeeded.
A good example of a band that uses an orchestra atmosphere (not full live orchestra) is Moonspell. I recall seeing them live with Daylight Dies and Katatonia live back in 06 during the late fall and they pulled it off really well.
A good example of a band that uses an atmosphere for electronic affects is Static-X. I recall seeing them live at Ozzfest 07 and all of their elements were still there. They pulled it off really well.
A good example of a band that uses all of the studio techniques is Meshuggah. I also saw them live with Cynic (HOB in Anaheim banned The Faceless from playing there) and they pretty much used every technique they would have used in the studio. They all pulled it off without disappointment.
I agree with you about Moonspell, i’ve had the pleasure of seeing them twice now, once in december with Gorgoroth and Cradle of Filth and then again a few weeks back at Bloodstock festival. They’ve blown me away both times!
Machine Head as well, i also saw them in december with Slipknot and Children of Bodom. They played every song perfectly, it was incredble. Then Slipknot came out, and whilst they nailed what they played, they had the most abysmal set list they’ve ever played. >_>
Why has nobody mentioned Strapping Young Lad? Absolutely mind blowing… I’ve seen them in some SMALL venues (a bar in Sacramento, CA with a handful of hicks at the bar, shortly before the self titled album came out). When they were together I never missed a single show, they were that good.
Another band that was deceptively good live was Darkane. They sounded much better than their studio stuff.
Well, that’s because they stopped playing live and everyone on this site is a toddler.
Apparently anything earlier than last month is too old for consideration.
Btw, I still haven’t given up faith that they will be back…just thinking of SYL as in a temporary hiatus…regardless of what Devin says. It is too depressing to think they might actually never play again.
Agreed, they took a long break after City so why the hell not? The music is too good and pure to be gone forever.
bands I’ve seen recently that were amazing:
Machine Head: Wow. Amazing. Robb Flynn knows how to get the crowd going.
Mastodon: So tight and somehow entertaining, even though they hardly move on stage.
As I Lay Dying: They pulled off every note perfectly and really pummeled their set.
Lamb of God: I’m not even a big fan but wow. Destroyed it.
Strapping Young Lad: it’s been a while, but they sounded so evil live, with those keyboards through a PA. Super heavy, and Devin’s a wild man.
“Tech bands” that sums up 90% of the bands today (signed and un-signed).and 90% of the bands i’ve seen over the past 5 years just sucked live.So many in fact I’m not even going to list them.of all the tours I’ve seen (roughly every summer package tour since 2003) within the first few dates of their respective headlining shows tour when they should have been on FIRE sadly were not.
the bands that have DELIVERED Live were Cannibal Corpse,Slayer,Meshuggah,KSE,Machine Head,DevilDriver,Gojira,Shadows Fall,Megadeth,just to name a few.I was in house before doors last year for Dragonforce and their backline sound check ,they played a few bars from 4 or 5 songs and Herman and the the guys NAILED it! ( i know most people think they are cheesy and it’s true.but what i saw and heard made me a believer).For all the GUITAR PLAYERS or muscians you just know when a bands are actually “playing” live.for fanboys ALL bands sound good live.
If you can not recreate your songs live,your NOT a BAND! your a fucking TOOL,POSER,Fanboy etc etc….
for me its more if a band’s recording can compare to the live show. I enjoy the show more than the cd
There’s really nothing to disagree with in this post. However, I have a vice versa scenario. I’ve seen bands I definitely do NOT like on their albums, but somehow came to either like them or at least respect them live. Probably because they were not held down so much by producers’ and/or label dictates.
Opeth, Mogwai, Behemoth Septic Flesh pull that shit off the right way
Killdick engage, Trvisuck Linkencok and nameless other’s just suck and to even be called metal is apalling
Septic Flesh sound incredible live…Hearing Communion through a massive wall of speakers is like the soundtrack to the apocalypse!
Your play on Trivium and Killswitch’s names is incredibly clever. Whether you like them or not, they are definitely metal. Also, I don’t think anyone even considers Linkin Park metal. You are right about Behemoth stomping boners live, though.
To be on topic though, (to no one in particular) you know who’s great live? Deep Purple. Their playing is tight as hell, and it’s awesome to see a group of old men on stage rocking out and truly enjoying what they do. A happy band makes me happy, especially considering how long they’ve been playing.
Nice band name puns and use of apostrophes dude.
Linkin Park certainly aren’t metal, but I saw them live at Download a couple of years ago and they were certainly capable of performing live. I’ve also seen Killswitch and Trivium quite recently and both were good, in fact Trivium sounded great.
Man I know you guys are gonna let me have it but….I saw down in Seattle a couple of weeks ago and they didn’t sound to good soundwise. Other than that they were awesome I love the band and Phil had that charisma you know? The melvins played before them and while I have heard “some” of there stuff they sounded amazing! Their guitar tone was HUGE! I figured it would be the opposite when down came on. Oh well maybe an off night soundwise. On a side note Rex wasn’t there either so maybe they weren’t grooving like they should. Yeah I have seen some bands that just made me scratch my head and wonder.
I saw IN FLAMES and they absolutelly SUCKED!! I saw them again a couple days later (same tour) and they fucking OWNED!! So it does make a difference if they are having an off night.
No mention of Dragonforce?
The last show I attended was Threat Signal with The Autumn Offering, The Agonist and Sybreed. Sybreed played a six song set and every song was interrupted by a computer malfunction. They had a laptop for samples, doing the job of pretty much every female keyboard player in every scene-metal band ever. Except the computer had no tits and made every song come to a grinding halt. It was weak. Ironic that a cyber-tech-metal band has to be enslaved by a computer to play live.
That shit was funny!
Haha, must be Sybreed’s new shiny Macbook. I think they were still using (working) multitrack recorder to play backing tracks when I’ve seen them and they were good – Drop’s awesome guitarist, drummer wasn’t bad either, especially since he had to play crazy Dirk Verbeuren’s parts. And this stuff don’t require keyboardist I think, it has to sound mechanical and techno-ish, and this is work for sequencers and arpeggiators, not humans.
Eyal, this really has nothing to do with the post, but you guys should re-record Futility. I would love to hear how that album would sound with better production and Sean singing.
The number one problem replicating a good album live is the vocalist. I guess it’s harder to tune up vocal cords than it is a guitar…
I disagree… it’s having a fucking sound guy that is used to setting level’s for a goddamn garage. Everyone blames the vocalist, but if you can’t HEAR him, it’s not his fault. Unless you can hear him and he sucks … then it is his fault. But more often than not I run into the band being set to 11 and the Vocalist being set to 10 or lower.
Well, quite often, if it’s a small to medium club-sized venue, you have bands touring with an entirely excessive assortment of full stacks which they refuse to turn to a reasonable stage volume. The job of the house engineer, in this situation, is to compete with the stage sound, not augment it. If you have ever run a pro sound system, you know full well it’s not simply a matter of ‘turning it up to 11′. The singer cries because he can’t hear his vocals over the amps. You turn up the monitors. Feedback increases. You adjust your eq’s. You try to do your best. every room is different, and every system has an upper limit. I mean christ… do you know how many singers I’ve dealt with who can’t even grasp the concept of singing INTO the fucking microphone rather than at the side of it? Who can’t manage not to point it directly at the monitors? Blaming the engineer’s pretty easy. Learning some fucking technique, not so much.
Eyal, a perfect example of a band that is good on record but sucks live is Black Label Society. Well as of late, their last album has really bored me but that was after I saw them at Ozzfest 2005. I couldn’t tell their songs apart, most of the time it was Zakk Wylde just playing solo after solo. Don’t get me wrong solos are nice, but when that’s all you do, it gets boring. I mainly wanted to see them play Stillborn live and even then that bored me. When my friend let me borrow one of their live dvds, it still was very boring.
Anyways about Mastodon, they’re great live, but it’s better to see them when they’re in smaller venues and headlining too. I saw them with Kylesa and Intronaut and they played all of Crack The Skye. It was an experience like none other.
I know I’m going to get shit for this but have you seen Motorhead live? I was disappointed when I saw them.
Speaking of Georgia metal, do you dig Kylesa or Baroness?
Black Label Society is actually the worst band I’ve ever seen live. They sounded like five Manowars playing at once. I’m not even convinced Zakk’s guitar was plugged in, I would not be remotely surprised if all I heard was a cord touching something metal plugged into a stack of amps turned up full blast. I was bleeding out of every orifice after their set, and it was only about 30 minutes.
And I absolutely agree about having to see Mastodon in a smaller venue on a headlining tour. Maybe that’s why some of us say they’re godly live and some of us say they suck. I’ve seen them sound bad twice, and I’ve seen them kick ass seven times. Both times their sound was bad, they were an early opening band or at a festival. Actually, most bands tend to sound like shit on large stadium tours, except for the headliner and whoever plays before them.
yeah, riff + 1000 harmonic squeals = Zakk Mylde. Repeat. I’m glad ozzy moved on.
Mastodon is great live, except for Hinds’ vocals… It’s awful… You know the “WHITE WHALE HOLY GRAIL” in Blood & Thunder? He can never pull it off, it’s incredible…
The first time I saw Static-X (Ozzfest ‘07) they were fuckin’ amazing. They were exact to every rift. However, when I saw them at the Palladium on Snowcore ‘09, they sucked balls. Everything was fuckin’ off. I hope it was just the sound guy and not them, but there was really no telling there. Goatwhore is another, if they didn’t tell you the name of each song you wouldn’t know which song they were playing. The last one that diappointed me, I’m saying this with complete heartbreak because he’s a freaking legend, is Ozzy. It’s primarily because of Zakk, but still, his show really disappointed me.
Fortunately the awesome fast playing in that song probably made up for it. Killer album!
my bad i meant to post that on the other dude’s message.
I don’t know, I’ve seen hundreds upon hundreds of bands so I can’t get into all of the ones that I think nailed it live or what not because aside from festival shows which I refuse to judge a band by, I’ve only seen a few bands really bomb it live compared to CD. Danzig was one of the biggest disappointments lately for me and the first time I saw Type O Negative who is one of my favorite bands left a very sour taste in my mouth. And for those who have complained about Mudvayne I have seen both ends of the spectrum with them. I saw them once and wanted to leave the entire time and saw them once and was blown away and the other three times fall somewhere in the middle.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree about Mastodon sounding tight live. I’ve seen them 3 times now and they were anything but tight…and I’m excluding Brent Hinds horrendous vocals. Every time I’ve seen them I think they are on coke because each player seems to be trying to play faster than the others. It ends up becoming a mess of noise. Perhaps I just keep catching them on their “off” nights….
Or maybe I just caught them in the good ole’ days. I haven’t seen them live in a bit.
i was so stoked to see them live on letterman. and it was a disappointment. still would like to see them in person though.
I’m sure you’ve been catching them on their off nights. Every time I’ve ever seen them they’ve been one of the tightest bands I’ve ever seen. Like, reading each other’s minds and shit. I’ve never seen them try to play too fast, Brann’s drumming is always so fucking tasteful and that’s the glue that keeps the whole band together.
Lamb of God is spot on live. Opeth too. I saw someone mention Clutch (thought I was gonna be the only one).
Though I must disagree with you Eyal, all the live stuff I’ve seen Mastodon do live was not that impressive at all. Maybe I’m the only one who thinks that? They really can’t pull off their newer stuff… From what I’ve seen at least.
Like I said… haven’t seen em in years. Maybe they’ve gone downhill due to success. I dunno. I love their new record though
They have absolutely not gone downhill due to success. In fact, they’re one of the only bands I can think of that actually got better (live) with success. Sure, they can’t really sing that stuff too well live, but they don’t sing so badly that they ruin the excellent music. Hearing Brann Dailor play the drums is a fucking experience in and of itself, let alone their uncanny tightness as a band. It’s easy to overlook the mediocre singing because everything else they do (including their stage presence) is just fucking awesome.
I’ve never seen Mastodon live but then I’ve never actually wanted to. Seriously, is there something I’m missing here? I just can’t get into them but everyone seems to love them…
They just do their own thing. Its not for everyone.
I saw Clutch live. I was really impressed.
Even though I argued the opposite side in Eyal’s last post, I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Can’t an album be good regardless of the band’s ability to pull it off live? Like he said in his post, technology can do almost anything for you EXCEPT write the songs. And can’t there be something of an artform in HOW and to what degree you choose to polish your turd of a performance. Sure, this credit should at least partially go to producers and engineers, but maybe they deserve that. If they play such an important part in making an album great, why shouldn’t we be giving the production crew some props? Also, I think live performances aren’t always a true representation of the band either. Autotune units can be used live. I saw Fear Factory live once and I could swear all the double bass drum work was sequenced. The point is, maybe it is more subjective than any of us realize. There are classical musicians who practice pretty much all day every day to perfect live performance and classical recordings are generally done live with no overdubs / editing. We don’t hold metal bands to that standard, so why should we be surprised when they aren’t as technically amazing as they sound on record. If our main concern was ability live, wouldn’t we scoff at the idea of any kind of editing/tuning/cheating in the studio.
Bass triggers make it too easy to make a drummer sound as if he’s playing much faster than he really is.
also triggers make your drums sound really shitty and mechanical. and you know, i might KNOW that it’s actually someone playing the drums when i hear them triggered to fuck on an album, but i really think what’s the point of even having a live drummer when it doesn’t even sound like a real live person hitting a drum.
It’s a question of degree. Of course, sweetening in the studio is to be expected. I never expect a band to sound exactly the same onstage as they do on a CD. But it’s disappointing when too much studio trickery is used. Triggered drums and pitch-corrected vocals are my two biggest peeves. In other words, there’s nothing wrong with using technology to your advantage, but it’s not really to your advantage if you’re using it to mask the fact that you can’t actually play your own songs. I absolutely expect a band to be able to play their own songs, I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all.
I agree that triggers definitely sound artificial but sometimes they are necessary or you would never even hear the bass drums (depending on style of course). They can get lost in the mix in heavier/faster styles of metal.
Some people go to shows and get right up front near the stage and the big speakers. This can ruin a persons perception on how well the band sounds live too. Sometimes, and I know it’s no fun, but you have to stand back a bit and hear the band from afar. When I saw Torche I was right up front and it was killing me. I went to get a beer and hit the balcony and they sounded great. Still loud, but great.
What about the bands who make underwhelming albums but still manage to put on some of the best damn live shows that I’ve ever seen (Black Dahlia Murder, Job for a Cowboy)?
Hmmm… interesting, hadn’t thought of that. Not sure I agree about Black Dahlia making underwhelming albums, but you make an interesting point.
And as fer as tech bands that can totally nail it live, Protest the Hero and Psycroptic are fucking sweet. Those guys play well and they play fast. And unlike most tech bands, they don’t just play really fast on the first four frets (which is basically speedy nu metal) they actually play genuinely complex guitar parts. Oh, and they also know when to bring out an actual riff. I have nothing but respect for those two bands. And I’m also happy to see that nobody disagrees with me on JfaC and BDM being two of the absolute best live bands ever. I’d recommend that everybody on this forum see both bands at least once.
I’d say they were dumbasses then. Think about it. If you can do a relatively impromptu performance and you are able to kill it then there should be nothing stopping you from putting at LEAST that same level of quality in the studio with less people watching, more time, more takes…etc…etc…
I guess that would have to be a mismanaged band with a crappy sound engineer or something.
I too saw Mastodon on that club tour and found them pretty faithful to their material, although I had heard in rumors that they autosync their vocals on CD. I left after half of the Blood Mountain set because of fucking hipsters experiencing their first metal show.
Anyway, the best performance I have ever seen when it comes to duplicating a (seemingly) processed studio sound would be Dark Tranquility. I saw them in 05′ at B.B. Kings, and they were absolutely flawless. The keys weren’t cheesy at all and Stanne was a monster live, not to mention hes a pretty cooky guy. I’m not that partial to seeing Melodeath live (COB were a little disappointing when I saw them with Fear Factory/LOG)
Generally, I’ve found that the heavier the guitar tone on CD, the more intense and enjoyable the live experience. Recently at Maryland Deathfest, two of the BEST bands I saw had guitar tones that fucking just made you take a shit and just an overall crushing sound. Consequently, Martin Van Druren fronted both those bands: Hail of Bullets and Asphyx.
Dark Tranquillity is fucking amazing live. I saw them with Arch Enemy and Stanne has some of the best stage presence that I’ve ever seen in my life.
the fall of troy are horrible live. cannibal corpse sound amazing and perfect live…maybe a little too perfect…
two bands I know for a fact completely deliver on all the hard edged in your face metal their cd’s promise are of course Daath, and the almighty Behemoth.
I’ve seen both bands three times apiece and each time never failed to leave me walking out of the venue telling myself that if I want to be a signed musician, that’s what I had to strive to emulate. I got to see Behemoth twice on the Invaluable Darkness tour as main support for Dimmu Borgir, and let me just say, Behemoth stole the show both times. I am a huge fan of Dimmu, but they didnt even come close to the raw electric energy behemoth had. Dimmu in my opinion is one such band that fails to deliver on the live side of things, yes its epic to see them live, but the energy just isnt there. You get the clear feeling of ‘yes these guys are big, bad, and evil to the core’ but thats where it stops.
Yea, I agree. I saw Behemoth and was completely blown away. Interestingly enough, their live Cd “At the Arena of Aion: Live Apostasy” absolutely captures every essence of their intense performance and the rediculous and often hilarious stage banter of Nergal (I swear sometimes he sounds like a fucking frat boy, ex. “THESE CAMERAS ARE HERE TO FILM THE MOST CRAZY OUT OF CONTROL SHIT EVER, SO GO CRAZY”)
It’s really insane which bands actually wind up killing it live. I can’t count the number of times a band I thought I was going to hate wound up killing it, or a band that I was certain would slay wound up sucking a fat one. I know on big metal tours e.g. Ozzfest or Unholy Alliance they purposefully make the opening bands sound shitty, and then gradually make each band sound better until the headliner comes on and all of a sudden they’re crystal clear. This is obvious to me from watching Mastodon over the years. I’ve seen them play with horrendous sound (on Unholy Alliance), halfway decent sound (Ozzfest ‘05) and I’ve seen them play with near-perfect sound (every show they headline). Bands actually have better stage presence when their sound is better, improving the entire performance. Also at Ozzfest ‘05, I was impressed by a band who I thought would be the low point of the day: Mudvayne. I was very, very, very, stoned which may have had something to do with it, but I remember TRYING to dislike their set and winding up singing along to Death Blooms. Another band that absolutely kills it live is HORSE the Band. They are the real deal. They ended their DIY world tour in NYC, and it was one of the best shows I’ve ever been to, out of hundreds.
One of my favorite genres to listen to is brutal death metal, but it’s some of my least favorite shit to see live. I’ve been disappointed so many times by bands whose music is, simply put, way too insane and intense to be enjoyed in a live setting. Insane sweeps, tremolo picking, crazy brutal chugging, intricate drumming, and all of the things I love about death metal often disappear in a live setting. In other words, you can’t actually hear the musicianship, usually due to volume and poor sound. Also, a lot of fans at death metal shows ONLY listen to death metal, they’re not there to hear music but rather to feel like they’re being pummelled, they talk trash about amazing classic rock bands like Led Zeppelin, Dire Straits, and Van Halen, and they stand there and scowl. Fools, this music is all about energy! Of course, none of this applies when talking about Suffocation or Obituary or a handful of other bands, but in general the live death metal scene is pretty stale.
While I would much rather listen to other shit on my headphones, one of my all time favorite bands to see live is Lamb of God. I rarely listen to their albums anymore, but if they come to town I’m there. They consistently put on such a high-energy show it’s ridiculous, and their live sound is something to be studied.
Finally, maybe some of you can weigh in on this. I love to listen to The Mars Volta. Their first three albums blow my mind every time I hear them. However, I’ve heard from countless people that their live show is terrible. I mean, I’ve heard people say shit like “The Mars Volta were so bad I was actually trying to sew my ears shut”. I’ve never seen them live, probably because of all the shitty comments I’ve heard. Is there any merit behind these harsh comments, or am I just a dumbass for listening to what other people say?
NOBODY READ YOUR LONG, WHINY POST.
ALSO YOU LIKE DIRE STRAITS.
That’s because I like good guitar playing. And I despise whining.
@ Sour Deez: Pretty much every damn thing you’ve said in this thread, + 1.
I don’t expect artists to be human jukeboxes, relentlessly cranking out the hits live with no room for evolution; however, I DO expect them to be able to handle their shit – recorded AND live. For example, I couldn’t care less if a guitarist doesn’t bother playing a guitar solo from the record note-for-note, so long as it’s plain they were capable to begin with and they’re metling my face off with whatever they ARE inclined to throw down on any given night. And if your recorded work can accurately capture the energy and feel of your live show or it’s just as good as it gets with your band, piss off because your band sucks.
I love it when you guys hem this stuff up and don’t leave me any room to operate. Other than the recurring, never-ending rehash of the Dimebag/Pantera hate-fest, I’ve learned a lot from reading this thread.
Oh, and Deez? If you find out about The Mars Volta live let me know, because I’m still waiting for my chance to check that out.
As a professional in the field as well Eyal.
Ask Brann Dailor if he used sound replacers on his kit for his albums…
and mars volta does suck live. no way they can pull off their stuff.
I don’t have his number.
Eyal, do you just sit here all day/night and read comments every time you bullshit on here?
While I’ve been recovering from the shit that almost killed me I’ve had a shit ton of down time which has made it easy to keep up with this.
Has anyone ever heard of Anselmo being a suspect in ordering the hit on Dime? Seems like Dec 4th Anselmo rants about how Dime needs to be physically beaten and then gets shot a few days later in what could only be described as random….or not….
Now you’re just trying to stir up some shit
No I’m serious look. I never much looked into this because I allways saw Pantera as
hard rock nazi skin head heroin users, but this discussion got me looking into this
in depth.
First off I take back anything I said about Dime because from what I researched he
seemed like actually a really nice guy. Anselmo on the other hand…
If I were investigating this incident myself I’d target Anselmo as the #1 suspect.
1.) Anselmo is violent
2.) Anselmo is drug-addled
3.) Anselmo was publically calling for Dime’s “severe physical beating” days before the
shooting.
4.) Anselmo’s video response looks about as legitimate as Chris Brown’s apology video.
Anyways I’m not accusing him because this is all speculation….but still the thing that amazed
me is that when I search this on the internet NOBODY talked about it at all apparently.
Seems totally plausible though.
Hit seems far fetched to me. Just seems like a crazy super fan took Phil’s statements to heart and still… a severe physical beating and three gunshots to the head are two different scenarios entirely.
The fan was definitely nuts that’s for sure. Some people are on edge and
impressionable and all this dude needed was a push. I’ll allways wonder
what that push was. I think the most likely thing is that your right. He
was a fanboy who read something and he was at a point in his life
where he decided to take this misguided action.
Still you never know. Phil saying he wanted Dime beaten was the
least of it anyways. He also said he’d kill them ( Vinnie and Dime) and
that Dime should be shot in the face. Now I’m not suggesting Phil is a
psychic using mind control magazine interviews to take out his
enemies. No I’m just saying between those statements and some
Super Joint songs…..Anselmo had made it pretty clear what he
thought of Dime…..and that’s what we call motive…especially since it
was so close to the time of the shooting.
Whether it was the sudden loss or simply a face he needed to
put to the public I don’t know but what I DO know is there was a
sudden 180 on the part of Anselmo with how much he hated
him.
Imagine if you were really mad at someone. Like really really mad.
I know that when band member beefs take place it can be as bad as a breakup. If you’re not cool with the other person they can become like the embodiment of everything terrible on earth to you. Take a look at the Dimmu drama for instance. That anger lasts a looooong time. When Phil made those statements that breakup was still fresh. So take that into consideration.
Ok…. so that’s the kind of anger I’m talking about. Really deep. Years and years of resentment built up to a breaking point.
Then the person you’re mad at gets killed.
The only way you can really hate someone you’ve known that long is if you have a deep connection to them. No matter what there’s still all those years of brotherly love and shared experience. When someone dies suddenly and terribly that tends to erase the negative.
That seems more likely to me.
As far as live shows go, I think Quo Vadis may have had one of the best group of instrumentalists. Just as good as, if not better than the album material. Their breakup is disappointing, but hopefully the new lineup will be up to par.
Testing testing
Amon Amarth are a great live band too, I’m not sure if they have been mentioned before. Also worth mentioning: Dark Funeral, Sadus, Vader, Marduk, Dying Fetus, Slayer, Motorhead, Agnostic Front, Apocalyptica, Iron Maiden of course and Obituary.
Probably the worst band I’ve ever seen live would be Dragonforce. They changed the lyrics around a bit just sounded horrible. Another shitty one was Lordi. They were hated on by EVERYONE at the St. Louis Ozzfest back in ‘07. Some of the best would have to be Lamb of God, Children of Bodom, Killswitch Engage, Disturbed, and Between The Buried and Me. And kudos to you Eyal…I saw you guy at Ozzfest ‘07. You fucking tore that shit up! It was the first time I heard any of your stuff…and I’ve been addicted since.
!..!,
From scrolling through the comments I have ascertained that a lot of people on here could be better served being real writers. Do you realize the amount of content that you produce? Paragraph upon paragraph of rebuttals, praise, hate, correcting after correcting yourself. It’s impressive!
What’s really funny is how Eyal praises the good, but conveniently leaves out who he thinks is the bad. Come on Eyal, put yourself out there! Who’s the shittiest one? Who plays to a track?
Don’t be afraid.
It took me some investigative research to figure that out, why would I just give it up?
Why wouldn’t you give it up is the better question.
I think it’s because you don’t want to come down on a band that you know personally? Maybe you don’t want to be “that guy” who truly speaks his mind, good and bad, and has to account for it?
I think I’m pretty warm. Help me out.
I’ll just state the horrible live bands that I’ve seen: In Flames (great in the studio. Whoracle is one of my favorite albums but they really, really suck live. Anders and Bjorn were drunk as fuck, and they only played two songs from the first five albums), Whitechapel (Compensate for having a shitty guitar tone by having three guitarists), The Agonist (Alyssa white Gluz doesn’t project her voice enough and their guitarist covers up his sub-par playing by having the bass drum drown out the guitar), and Suicide Silence (Mitch Lucker’s stage presence is horrible. He constantly just jumps up and down to compensate for the fact th he can’t think of anything interesting to do.)
And what’s with all of the Bodom hate on here? They were great when I saw them.
SERVES YOU RIGHT FOR GOING TO SEE WACK-ASS BANDS.
Wrong
Said “wack-ass bands” were touring with highly credible acts. I saw In Flames because they were touring with High on Fire, Megadeth and CoB (and they’re still great in the studio). Whitechapel were touring with Unearth and Protest the Hero. The Agonist were touring with The Haunted and Suicide Silence were touring with Carcass Samael, and Psycroptic.
I give more credit to more bands than others.
For example, The Black Dahlia Murder sounded solid as shit the last time I saw them and that shit doesn’t seem easy.
On the other hand, stuff like Static-X and Rammstein seems to easy to pull off live. Riffs seem too simple but I don’t know, I don’t play guitar.
The Agony Scene seemed to suck live. Sound and performance. I was bummed.
LOG is awesome but lacks stage performance because they concentrate so much.
I think Slipknot deserve respect for what they pull off. I think they sound great and have a good performance after so many years.
I’ve been waiting and wondering about Born of Osiris. Gonna see them soon and I’m curious to find out what it will sound like.
those guys struck out their first time at bat for me. saw them the Crazy Donkey in LI, ny with Misery Signals, Emmure, Sky Eats Airplain…MS killed it. emmure’s sound was tight and clean. boo was muddy as fuck. their breakdows consitsts of tight chops and these sharp sounds, not to ( as is with most band up their alley) …that is generally the heart of their sound, with that i dont know what the fuck they think they should sound like live,
What about the bands that you can still tell are giving 110% even with problems on stage? Like for instance, when I saw Primordial, Alan Averill was sick and they had every reason to cancel the rest of the tour since they couldn’t give 100% but I could tell that Alan was truly giving his all. He was sweating through his corpsepaint and often catching himself when he was about sneeze. I have nothing but respect for those guys.
Landmine Marathon also had guitar amp issues (which they apologized for) and their rhythm guitarist had to play lead. And they still totally rocked.
And when I saw The Haunted, Pete’s mic kept turning off and the crowd had to compensate but they were still playing like it was their last show ever. (And it may have been their last North American tour since NOBODY showed up.) Even Pete was still acting like his mic was working the whole time even though he was screaming over the guitars.
Good bands know how to get past issues on stage. Blaming your problems on sickness or technical issues is a lame excuse and I can tell when a band is genuinely having problems and when they just suck. For instance, Dragonforce just suck.
i think that a band being tight makes up for at least 70% of the reason as to why the would be awsome/shitty at a show. most people dont do their homework or get a clue as to how to properly handle their equipment or even what the knobs on their amps do. alot of bands fail to commnunicate with the sound guy. most sound guys are dicks, so dont ever expect their help.
on tour most bands leave their personal practicing regiments behind because they play every night. whatever the reason, i believe bands have more controll than they like to admit. outdoor festivals are an exception, to a certain extent.
I used to think the same thing about sound guys. then I became one. You know what I realized? sound guys become dicks because they have to constantly deal with know-nothing snot-nosed pricks who think they’re rock stars. 5 nights a week, 5-6 bands per bill… kids not yet old enough to shave, playing mall-metal for their 10 high school friends on their fucking line 6 combo amps… old farts who never made their mark and think that simply having “time in” makes you a professional… drunk, sloppy punk rockers wrecking your gear and soaking everything in beer and puke… all of them acting like they’re the goddamn rolling stones. Real, live touring bands have learned that it pays to show sound guys a respectable level of civility. These people you seldom have problems with. They know their gear, they know their etiquette, they understand how to adjust to a new room. And let me tell you, anyone who extends these courtesies to a soundguy will be rewarded in kind. Give it a try next time, why don’t you.
Hrm. I’ve always attributed a bad performance to bad sound or just an ‘off night’ but perhaps I’ve been too kind. It makes sense that all the tech in the studio would tend to make people a bit lazy when it comes to practicing their instruments, and rehearsing, etc. You can just fix it!
I was recently saw DAATH and Goatwhore (as well as Abysmal Dawn, SWAATS and Abigail) on the Conquer and Curse tour in SF, and they both kicked ass. I enjoyed Goatwhore’s set even though they didn’t have a bassist (obviously not album perfect, but still just sounded great). I can’t really comment on the other bands since I wasn’t too familiar with them (I came to see DAATH and Goatwhore).
I still can’t believe a band the stature DAATH and Goatwhore wound up playing at a tiny bar (I won’t even call it a club) like “Three Parkside”. The stage was no more than about 15-20 ft across, and about 1-2 ft off the ground I was up front and kept having to duck out of the way not to be hit by guitars and headbanging band members! If the bands disliked playing at such a small place, it was still awesome for the fans!
The thing that I noted was that even though they were in such a small place with a sketchy PA system, playing to probably no more than 30-50 people, DAATH and GH played like they were playing an arena show! Gotta appreciate that as a fan.
Clutch!
God Forbid always brings it!
Lamb of God never disappoints…
Unearth, As i Lay Dying, Throwdown, Sevendust were good,
Testament was great!
Opeth shows are mind blowing!
sometimes bands are better live than on CD.
See my above post on Job for a Cowboy and Black Dahlia.
Just throwing it out there, Into Eternity are absolutely amazing live. I didn’t even like their studio material before I saw them open for Symphony X, but they were spot on, energetic, and lots of fun. I even endured a fucking Iced Earth show just to see Into Eternity again. Since you all know my opinion of Iced Earth (who are spot on but really boring and choreographed live), you know who significant is for me to endure them just to see one other band.
Also, Edguy show is the most possible fun anyone can have live. Tobias Sammet is probably the best frontman out there, and their generic power metal somehow feels great live.
zzzzzzzzz
Best Shows even though most aren’t metal:
Stevie Ray Vaughan, the dude used to tear it up live.
Iron Maiden – Powerslave!!!!
Symphony X – amazing band
BB King – The master of blues
Dimmu Borgir – great show
Yngwie Malmsteen – the guy never disappoints…
Dream Theater – sounds as close as a band can get
Rush – Amazing, those guys are great live, even now that they’re 100! :-)
Indigo Girls – Fun show, harmonies are always spot on.
Nightwish – Superb show w/new vocalist.
Overkill – fantastic live I could listen to them play for a week, and I think they have enough material to play that long too.
Fight – w/Rob Halford, saw them on a tour with Metallica (metallica sounded old and tired) they were the best band with Suicidal Tendencies.
Worst bands, mostly openers
Raven, Warrant (Queensryche Mindcrime opener band), Job for a Cowboy, and the other opener band on last Gigantour. There have been many bad bands, I just can’t remember anymore. Oh a friend drug me to Def Leppard and Journey…One of the worst shows I’ve ever been to. I went for Lep, but they sucked too.
Zzzzzzzzz.
Strange, when I went to Gigantour, High on Fire and JfaC were incredible.
Emperor always sounded great live.
And they aren’t metal, but Rush fucking KILL live.
No I’m serious look. I never much looked into this because I allways saw Pantera as
hard rock nazi skin head heroin users, but this discussion got me looking into this
in depth.
First off I take back anything I said about Dime because from what I researched he
seemed like actually a really nice guy. Anselmo on the other hand…
If I were investigating this incident myself I’d target Anselmo as the #1 suspect.
1.) Anselmo is violent
2.) Anselmo is drug-addled
3.) Anselmo was publically calling for Dime’s “severe physical beating” days before the
shooting.
4.) Anselmo’s video response looks about as legitimate as Chris Brown’s apology video.
Anyways I’m not accusing him because this is all speculation….but still the thing that amazed
me is that when I search this on the internet NOBODY talked about it at all apparently.
Seems totally plausible though.
Thank you. See my above comment somewhere in here about Phil. He was both the mouth and the rectum of the band. Down is the biggest waste of talent…it’s is just a musical distraction…all the other people in that band are wasting their time (except Rex…he only has time to waste). Phil was very talented once, but his brain broke at some point. Too many trips and ODs…he just fried out. He doesn’t operate on the rational plane with the rest of us.
It’s kind of ridiculous that you guys are talking about someone who you’ve only seen in videos and interviews like he’s your junkie cousin who needs an intervention. You don’t know Phil Anselmo. You have no idea how he operates off camera or when he’s not being interviewed. I’m not some huge Phil supporter or anything, but talking about a celebrity like you know him personally is pretty ridiculous.
You are right. I never met Phil but I’ve read his lyrics and read and watched his interviews….everything I comment on came straight from the horse’s mouth.
If you want to call Pantera a bunch of racists, then be accurate. Please show me a statement by Vinny Paul or Dime that was racist. Pantera is labeled as racist (by some people) because of what Phil said, not Dime or the band itself. That is my point. Young people seem to have confused Phil’s own statements with the band’s.
Pantera is a very good example man. “Domination” live is even better.
In Flames– dialed it in.
GOJIRA– fuckin killin’ it live
LoG– great
Parkway Drive (if anyone cares)– good.
Chimaira– good.
Winds of Plague– meh live.
AILD– not bad.
Born of Osiris– pretty good.
MESHUGGAH– great
the faceless– good
What really sucks is that I heard Gojira was along for the ride with Metallica and LOG and recently
I heard it’s only for the first leg of the tour. By the time they come to my neck of the woods
Gojira is replaced by Vovoid or whatever. I was kinda hoping for “Adoration for None” Live but
maybe next time…
Agreed! Saw Mastodon live and Crack The Skye sounded damn near the same as the studio version.
mudvayne is good not exellent live chad can diffently work on sayin ALL the words do sum cardio or sumin. 1 band ive never heard of till i heard them live was DROID. OMFG they were perfect spot on their album doesnt do them justice(but the album is very well produced and diffently worth the money) out of all the bands that ive seen and ive seen A LOT over the last 15yrs i was very impressed with droid check them out
oh yea coupla awesome bands live (hed)PE and thrice! energetic and spot on
Gojira is really spot on live, ive seen them twice, and been wowed each time. The link alive dvd is also extraordinary
I realize they just came back to the city, it was in Brooklyn I think, and I missed it :(
I was really excited hearing theyd tour with Metallica and LOG but then I heard that Vovoid
replaces them when they come to NY. Suck! Anyone know who Vovoid is? Are they any good?
surely you jest
Sir no I do not.
then google that shit, son. I can see how you might have overlooked them, they’ve only had a 25-year career.
DidgeryDoo, Voivod is a band that probably has inspired and influenced many of your favorite musicians, and yet they’ve never really been on the radar of your typical metal fan. If there is such as a thing as “mainstream metal,” they’re not it. Nevertheless, their work is hugely influential for good reason: simply put, they rule. Unfortunately, other than a final album released following the death of Denis “Piggy” D’Amour, it appears the band is no longer active. You can find plenty on the band by searching this site alone, as Axl and Vince have been pretty good about reporting on them in the past. For example: http://www.metalsucks.net/2009/07/29/voivod-go-out-in-reliable-fashion-on-infini/ .
In this instance, though, I believe you’ve mistaken VOLBEAT for Voivod. Easy to mix up names, even if they’re completely different acts. For some sample MetalSucks reader feedback on Volbeat, check this: http://www.metalsucks.net/2009/04/27/do-ye-like-volbeat/ .
Hope you find that helpful.
Aw my bad. So your saying Volbeat is replacing Gojira at the end of that tour not Vovoid?
Yes, indeed. http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=602410
I absolutely hate bands that can’t actually play the music they put out on their albums. I don’t know how anybody can knowingly put out music they can’t play. Studio editing and pro-tools have been a major downfall of a lot of bands.
I suppose if you want a extremely technically precise sound for your album (ie; Meshuggah) the use of pro-tools is fine, but you better be able to reproduce that sound as best as possible live.
I can’t believe how many bands actually get away that studio bullshit. Maybe I don’t know enough about how the music industry works, but it seems to me that record sales don’t pay the bills in metal, and that playing shows and being on tour are what keep metal bands alive. So you’d think most bands would do their best to make sure their live performances are as good, if not better, than their studio albums.
Just my opinion
On a side note, I saw Goatwhore last night and they were incredible. They absolutely nailed their set. They were opening for Obituary, but they stole the fuckin’ show. That’s one band I will definitely puts out killer studio albums and is even better live.
Id have to say when I went to Mayhem, Killswitch and All That Remains fucking delivered. They were Amazing live, BFMV and God Forbid were also pretty damn good, but not studio good. Still was not a disappointing show.
This is why I love the local scenes. Most of those guys don’t even have a cd or 7″ out and yet they make their money all the same because they bring the fucking house down every time they play. Bands like Maggot Twat (from Chicago), King (from Flint), Mouth Sewn Shut (from Boston), and Texas Prison Rodeo (from Ann Arbor) don’t set you up with high expectations because of the four I listed, only two have recorded material available (that I’ve ever seen). But all the same, they BRING it live, each in ways you only hear about in metal myth and legend. A TPR show has all the intensity I would imagine one would find seeing Burn the Priest in a basement. Maggot Twat and King even more so.It’s ALL about the live show. I don’t even like King’s music but seeing it live was SO amazing that I’ll pay admission again and again.